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Danube Swabian
comment below well said. Very well said!!! You are not bonded with the country you were born in if you immigrate and you don't have to be born in the US to a real American. Those who think otherwise had better show their Comanche pedigree or be dumb-ass hypocrites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.131.60 (talk • contribs) on 03:21, 18 July 2006
Danube Swabian? Weissmuller was not a Danube Swabian swimmer. He immigrated to the United States — according to this article — at seven months of age. That makes him an American. The Danube Swabians — whoever the heck they are — can't take credit for his success. (He wouldn't have become an international swimming star and a movie star had he stayed in Europe.) This is a minor thing, but it's a recurring problem with Misplaced Pages. The folks who write these articles think that a person's nationality is determined by their place of birth. In most cases, this is true. However, when you leave a country at a young age, spend all of your life in another country, become a citizen of that country, learn the language of that country, you should be treated as ... a member of that country. I supposed the Misplaced Pages scribes feel that they are being more "accurate," but they are not. Weissmuller was "an American swimmer born in Romania (?)." There. That's easy. Isn't it? P.S. Bob Hope was not a British comedian ("an American comedian born in London" will suffice.") — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.72.143.47 (talk • contribs)
- I suspect Europeans will contend that your comments show American arrogance and ethnic specialists will contend that they deny the whole melting-pot concept of America. I suspect he wouldn't have had an acting career if he'd never been in the US, but no way to know about swimming since there is also water in Europe (I've seen it!) On the other hand, his ethnicity (not nationality) didn't belong in the opening paragraph, as it had nothing to do with why he was notable. I've moved the info from the second paragraph up, leaving the later sections to discuss his birth, ethnicity and what-not. --Habap 11:29, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Habap -- calling Weissmuller an "American" does not betray any arrogance. Weismuller was an American. He was not European. This isn't arrogance. It is a simple statement of fact. Ethnic specialists shouldn't be offended either. He left Europe at seven months of age. It isn't necessary to pay homage to his Danube Swabian ancestry. Was it an important aspect of his life? Was Weissmuller active in the Danube Swabian community? I doubt it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.72.143.47 (talk • contribs)
- Please don't over-write the heading or post your comments at the top of the page. Put them right below the comment to which you are responding so that people can read the discussion in order. Also, consider getting an account (they're free!) and signing your posts using the signature icon or manuallu typing four tildas ~~~~. I didn't say they'd be justified in thinking you were arrogant, but that they would contend you were. If you notice in the revised article, the opening paragraph no longer references his ethnicity, which played no part in his fame, so no argument here. --Habap 11:41, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
PLEASE GET SOME RESPECT FOR REALITY::: The background of Mr. Weissmueller is an important part of the aspect of his character and what allowed him to be successful in America. Such is the background of all successful Donauschwaben and all successful immigrants of any one background period. I would suggest returning the Donauschwaben ancestory to his initial profile because he is still considered to be Donauschwaben and he was still raised ,I would most definately assume, by his parents which would have instilled the character and language and most definately the culture of the Danube Swabians. If poeple who were danube swabian were to be asked about who Johnny Weissmueller was, they would most definately identify him as a Danube Swabian, which in course would invite you to read up on your history. Exclusion of the fact that he is of Donauschwaben decent is an exclusion of who he really is beyond his success and achievements. People did not come to America to become one of the "hicks" for better lack of better term, they came here to be free to practice their customs. America still allows for a man to hold his customs and traditions and live here freely. If you close minded individuals would accually have looked further into the Donauschwaben character, you would find that many of the things you do period are the result of the German Bread basket and its great traditions and customs.
1994
According to http://multimedia.olympic.org/pdf/en_report_484.pdf Johnny Weissmuller finished the event in 1994 in 1:00.8 min (19 Jul) and 59.0 sec (20 Jul). The dates as well as the times differ from the article. Also there is no world record registered in 1922 so i don't know where this date is from.
Notes to FredR
I notice you reverted most of my changes. I agree with some, but not with all:
- First of all, the section headings should start with == for main sections, then ===, and then ====. See also Misplaced Pages:Guide to Layout. I've put the headings back as I left them.
- Second, you removed the lead section. This section is meant to give an overview to potential readers of a (long) article so that they can see if the article is what they need. This is particularly recommended for articles that want to become a Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates, which is what I would ultimately want. I re-added the lead section I wrote to the article.
- Third are the names of the Weissmuller family. You obviously have access to many official certificates (or to sources that have access), which is great. The names on these forms are all in Hungarian, while we know that Weissmuller's parents were from Swabia, Germany, and spoke German. In your original text, you also wrote both Petrus/Peter and Erszebet/Elizabeth, if I'm not mistaken. As far as I can judge, the official records have the Hungarian version of their names (which is not strange, as they lived in the Hungarian part of Austro-Hungary, but used the German versions in common life. I will try to rewrite the section to reflect this. If you have any additions to this, go ahead.
I'll be going through the rest of the page in the next few days; as I already said, I'd like to make this a featured article, and I think we could both add a lot. I'm still looking for some (public domain) pictures however, if you have any, that would be nice. Jeronimo 06:49, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
POV Line
I removed the following line, which I found to be POV and un-provable.
He was the greatest swimmer of all time.
- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 14:45, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)
Discrepancy with Duke Kahanamoku
The Johnny Weissmuller page says:
Johnny Weissmuller broke Duke Kahanamoku's world record on the 100-meters freestyle, swimming it in 58.6 seconds.
But the Duke Kahanamoku page says
On August 11, 1911, in an amateur swim meet, Kahanamoku was clocked at 55.4 seconds in the 100-meter freestyle, beating the existing world record by 4.6 seconds, in the salt water of Honolulu Harbor.
So, which one's correct? Is Johnny's record just the olympic record? Pyrop 05:08, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)
- Kahanamoku's record was set in the 100 yard, not meter. Weissmuller was the first to break 1 minute in the 100 meter. Jeronimo 17:32, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Five Queries
I have five queries re the following sentence: "His parents were later divorced, as is shown on the divorce document filed in Chicago by Elizabeth Weissmuller, although a lot of sources state incorrectly that Weismuller's father died of tuberculosis contracted from working in coal mines."
- Why is it necessary to refer to the evidence of the parents' divorce? Has the fact of the divorce been disputed anywhere?
- What is the connection between his parents' divorce and the cause of his father's death? Seems to me these are completely unrelated matters, and belong in separate sentences. Unless the divorce somehow caused the death .... ????
- If it is not correct that his father died "of tuberculosis contracted from working in coal mines", then what is the correct cause of death?
- Why are we talking about the cause of his father's death anyway? What does this have to do with Johnny Weismuller's life and legacy?
- Am I missing something here?
Cheers JackofOz 03:06, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I suspect at some point this sentence read something like "His mother was widowed when his father died" and has been progressively reworked. Research and recasting is probably in order. - Nunh-huh 03:13, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
From John Weismuller, redirected here
Content from redirected page. Charles Matthews 08:15, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Born, 2 June, 1904, Died 20 January, 1984
Olympic gold medalist in swimming, Johnny Weissmuller broke three records at the 1924 Olympics in Paris.
However he is perhaps best known for playing the part of Tarzan.
Swimming Achievements
1924 Summer Olympics - Paris
- Men's 100 m Freestyle Gold 59.0
- Men's 400 m Freestyle Gold 5:04.2
Filmography
Glorifying the American Girl (1929) as Adonis (segment "Loveland")
Tarzan
- Tarzan the Ape Man (1932)
- Tarzan and His Mate (1934)
- Tarzan Escapes (1936)
- Tarzan Finds a Son! (1939)
- Tarzan's Secret Treasure (1941)
- Tarzan's New York Adventure (1942)
- Tarzan's Desert Mystery (1943)
- Tarzan Triumphs (1943)
- Tarzan and the Amazons (1945)
- Tarzan and the Leopard Woman (1946)
- Tarzan and the Huntress (1947)
- Tarzan and the Mermaids (1948)
Swamp Fire (1946) as Johnny Duval
Jungle Jim
- Jungle Jim (1948)
- The Lost Tribe (1949)
- Mark of the Gorilla (1950)
- Captive Girl (1950)
- Jungle Jim in Pygmy Island (1950)
- Fury of the Congo (1951)
- Jungle Manhunt (1951)
- Jungle Jim In the Forbidden Land (1952)
- Voodoo Tiger (1952)
- Savage Mutiny (1953)
- Valley of Head Hunters (1953)
- Killer Ape (1953)
- Jungle Man-Eaters (1954)
Himself
- Cannibal Attack (1954)
- Jungle Moon Men (1955)
- Devil Goddess (1955)
links
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0919321/
Serbian-born
I object to the assumption that he was "Romanian", simply because that was not Romania (as was mentioned, and as opposed to Edward G. Robinson, who was born in Bucharest, not Austia-Hungary), but even more so because he never made it clear what his views were on that, and even forged his data to seem that he was born in the US. He never held Romanian citizenship. I think the "Romanian-born" reference should be removed, and he should not be included in Cat:Romanian actors. You could replace the first with "Austro-Hungarian"; the second, you just don't need.Dahn 22:46, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
===========
Agreed. The village Međa he was born in is in Serbia. You will note that the online biographies cite that he was born "near Temishvara, Romania." This is true, but only up to extent that Međa is near Temishvara, BUT ON THE SERBIAN SIDE OF THE BORDER (Temishvara is a city on the Romanian side of the Romanian-Serbian border). Thus, he was born is Serbia, and not Romania.
=========
The following is the article from New York Times which states that his birthplace is in Serbia:
Serbia: Monument to Tarzan
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: February 17, 2007
The village of Medja, on the border with Romania, plans to build a monument to Johnny Weissmuller, the best-known film Tarzan. Mr. Weissmuller, who won five Olympic gold medals in swimming, was born in Medja in 1904. He died in 1984. Residents said they were inspired by a decision this week by another Serbian village, Zitiste, to erect a statue of Sylvester Stallone’s film boxer Rocky Balboa to rid itself of bad luck.
Ketzman
==========
I do not agree with the fact that Johnny Weissmuller was born in Medja. While it is true that members of his family lived there, he was actually born at 6 pm in a house at number 84 in Freidorf, which is now part of Timisoara. The proof can be found in the (Romanian) from Banat Museum 2004-2005 (page 524). His birth was declared by his father on 5.06.1904.
His son, Johnny Weissmuller jr acknowledged this in an , he was also part of a about his father and attended the which took place in Timisoara in 2004. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.166.20.194 (talk) 23:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC).
Let's make this thing clear: Johnny Weismüllet was born in Temesvár (Romanian name: Timişoara, German name: Temeschwar), in the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, or more exactly in the Kingdom of Hungary (the other half of the aforementioned monarchy, beside Austria). The fact that Serbia and Romania seized the region after 1918 is another story.Mazarin07 23:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
- Well just to say that Serbia and Romania did not "seized the region after 1918" - the region was mainly inhabited by native Serbs and Romanians who lived under Hungarian occupation and who in 1918 united with their native countries (I just do not like to see that somebody spread irredentist lies here...). PANONIAN (talk) 13:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
"Hungarian occupation" pre 1918? You reveal yourself with yr rhetorics, PANONIAN. I will check all of yr sources, since I see, you like to use those, wich are... khmmm... far from objective. --Vince 15:03, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Tarzan Yell
According to the article, Weissmuller did the Tarzan yell. However, it was done by sound sfx and later mimicked by him. His voice was never used in the films for the Tarzan yell. Steve-O
Wait
Didn't John Wayne pay Johnny a visit at his home in Acapulco, Mexico?
Confusing bit about names
This is the beginning of the background text:
- He was born János Weißmüller in Freidorf, Hungary, at the time part of Austria-Hungary (present-day Timişoara, Romania) to German-speaking Austrian parents, Petrus Weißmüller and Erzsebet Kersch, as is shown on his birth and (Roman Catholic) baptismal records.
- When Johnny was seven months old, the family emigrated to the United States aboard the S.S. Rotterdam. They left Rotterdam on January 14, 1905, and arrived in New York twelve days later, with their names recorded in English as Peter, Elizabeth and Johann Weissmuller. Peter had been born 1876-12-31.
I have some questions about this:
- A name like János Weißmüller is a bit odd. I would expect either "Weißmüller János" (the Hungarian version, albeit with a German surname) or "Johann Weißmüller".
- The bit about "their names recorded in English as Peter, Elizabeth and Johann" is odd. Johann is not English; that would be "John".
So, it seems hard to believe that his German-speaking parents would give him a Hungarian name at birth, then translate it to German at the same time they had translated their own to English. --Saforrest 19:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Hungarian names are frequently used in the Western name order in English Misplaced Pages (e.g. Sándor Petőfi). What I find odd about the names is that the article states his parents were German-speaking Austrians, while both his and his mother's first names are recognizably Hungarian. He must have had mixed heritage. – Alensha 寫 词 22:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
- No. He was from german-speaking family, but they had hungarian names because the area where the lived (Banat) was in the Hungarian part of Austro-Hungary, and it was under extensive magyarization. So, altho he actualy had german name (Johann was his real name), he was registrated as Janos (hungarian version of Johann). Vanjagenije 23:59, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
That's a fact! He was registered as Weissmüller János when he was born in Freidorf near Temeschburg, (today a suburb of Timişoara, Banat, now in Romania but at the time part of Austria-Hungary) the son of German-speaking parents, Petrus Weißmüller and Elisabeth Kersch, according to his Hungarian birth and (Roman Catholic) baptismal records. In fact, he was named Johann by his parents, but all legal records at the time used the Hungarian forms of personal names. After 1920 Banat was split between Romania, Serbia und Hungaria. His birth registry is conserved in the parish of Freidorf-Timişoara. And that's another fact!
Wrong data?
According to this website, Weissmuller's family immigrated to the US in 1908. This means that he was 4 (or almost), and not seven months old. The article states that his family took a ship, the Rotterdam, in Rotterdam (which is an odd coincidence) in 1905. We need to straighten this out, and given the conflicting sources, we better link it next to whichever sentence is determined to be correct. However, right now I don't know of any source corroborating the 1905 version, and an unsourced statement cannot hold up against a minimally reputed, identified source.
The same website also states that his brother, Peter, was younger than he (whereas our article says that Peter was born in 1876, making him 28 years older than Johnny ) and that Peter was born in the US (whereas if he were born in 1876, this would mean that he was born in Austro-Hungary as well) . Those are severe inconsistences that need to be clarified asap. Do we have sources to back the current statements? Regards, Redux 19:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)