Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Summerdays1 (talk | contribs) at 18:17, 28 December 2023 (reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

DYK for Bork tapes

On 14 September 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Bork tapes, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that judge Robert Bork's leaked list of video rentals included movies such as Citizen Kane, The Philadelphia Story and Sixteen Candles? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bork tapes. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Bork tapes), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 12:02, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 12,400 views (1,033.3 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of September 2023 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:29, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

UVA Lede

Hey there. Just wanted to open up a discussion section to avoid removing good work without instead fixing it. I disagree that each of the notes needs to be cited, as they are each discussed and cited later in the article. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 19:43, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

@SerAntoniDeMiloni The problem is that the notes use Misplaced Pages articles as a source, which is prohibited per WP:CIRCULAR. GuardianH (talk) 19:55, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @GuardianH. Notes are not meant to be sources, but instead meant to provide elaborations. As in the article, if someone wants an elaboration on ie 'literary arts', the note provides them an explanation and the page to see. Not sure there's any better way to do this. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 20:00, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

@SerAntoniDeMiloni If I might comment on this, it also abridges WP:NOR. Like an academic paper, it makes a value judgement based on the importance of a subject (i.e., see, for example, ). That "for example" is ascribing weight to a subject in relation without a source – who decides what to see for an example? This is quite subtle original research, but original research nonetheless and due to be removed. GuardianH (talk) 18:52, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @GuardianH. I'm still not sure we're on the same page, though. Everything on Misplaced Pages has been written by editors who have individual skews and have taken thousands of points of information and prioritised those which, based on their judgement, are more important. I'd rather prompt that the notes in the lede are in lieu of 'See x page' that can be found in articles pointing readers to the main page. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 22:32, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

@SerAntoniDeMiloni I don't think any of those are at issue. Editors also make some of the same mistakes collectively, but that doesn't justify the mistakes, of course. If it is original research, it should be removed — and in this case it is OR. GuardianH (talk) 20:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

That is a very good point. Good job! 38.111.224.51 (talk) 04:22, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 29

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, GuardianH. Thank you for your work on Phil Calabrese. User:Voorts, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

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voorts (talk/contributions) 01:05, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Influences

I see that on 24th August 2022 you edited the influences parameter for Steven Pinker. I don't suppose they bothered to tell you, but as part of a massive purge involving at least 3000 articles the influences and influenced parameters were removed by PrimeBot in the last few days. If you have any thoughts about this there is a discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/Template_talk:Infobox_scientist#Influences/influenced_--_abuse_of_power Athel cb (talk) 12:57, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Clarence Thomas

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Clarence Thomas, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

• A "bare URL" error. References show this error when one of the URL-containing parameters cannot be paired with an associated title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. (Fix | Ask for help)

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British biographies

Hello again. I've come from Helena Hamerow where you've done some more "condensing". Why have you removed the school from Charles Wesley?? I'll just copy and paste what I've said to you in the past:

Actually, you've made a fair few edits to British biographies that appear to be based of incorrect assumptions. For example, it is not "condensing" to turn All Souls College, Oxford, Faculty of Classics, University of Oxford, St John's College, Oxford, and Brasenose College, Oxford into University of Oxford. This is like condensing University of California, Berkeley and University of California, Santa Cruz into one University of California. Oxford and Cambridge are weird universities: the colleges are (for the most part) independent institutions; and there are many illogical facets, such as "students" of Christ Church, Oxford actually being the academics, or Master of Arts degrees not being real degrees.
In the UK, we separate education (childhood school; university is not considered a "school") from alma mater which is any/all universities that someone attended (they don't need to have graduated with a degree from them).
Professor has a different meaning in the UK. Someone with the profession of a university teacher is known as an academic or lecturer. A professor is the most senior type of academic, and a title of distinction, it is not an occupation description. The UK and US (mostly) share a language but there are differences. So please educate yourself before making any more such changes. I'm happy to point you in the right direction, or just have a look at British biographies and other Wiki articles. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk 14:27, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

As above, I'm happy to point you in the right direction. This was a good edit for example. Gaia Octavia Agrippa 12:35, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I'd agree with all this. Johnbod (talk) 17:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Groton page overflowing from potentially connected contributor

Hi GuardianH, what do you think about what an unregistered editor is doing on the Groton page? It seems like he or she is a connected contributor. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 18:48, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

I can't speak directly regarding the situation. But when it comes to WP:COI problems, the first thing is to warn the user using a template like Template:Uw-coi. Any edits that are WP:PROMOTION of course must be removed, and there is also the Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard. GuardianH (talk) 19:03, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning up that mess! DMacks (talk) 16:12, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Dodgers/Braves infobox photo

Not sure I know what the point is of making it smaller, since what dictates width in that infobox is the 26 innings of line score and at least from my perspective, making it smaller just increases whitespace and makes it harder to read. Wehwalt (talk) 19:24, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I have no doubt that making the image a huge size makes it more visible, but it actually makes the article harder to read, rather than easier. A fine balance between good chunks of paragraph and portrait is best — with an image of that size, the paragraphs are far too squished. GuardianH (talk) 19:29, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't see that it makes the paragraphs any less squished because the line score (the inning-by-inning) is what is making the infobox so wide and doing the squishing. Perhaps it depends on what skin you use? Wehwalt (talk) 19:38, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your considerable efforts to assure balance in the C.T. article. Thanks also for including the Jackson quote. Though I have respected him immensely, I never thought of him, one way or the other, as being possessed with a sense of humor. ____

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, GuardianH. Thank you for your work on Michael Stokes Paulsen. User:Maliner, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

He Appears to pass NPROF.

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Maliner}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Maliner (talk) 15:29, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 30

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Cleon H. Foust, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Columbia City.

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potential vandalism

This might count as vandalism. Let me know what you think about the dozens of higher ed edits about "American English" made by https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Jacona Seems bizarre to me. --Melchior2006 (talk) 07:19, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

That's ok. I think the editor is just adding those templates to distinguish/notify editors to use American English as opposed to British English; the changes aren't visible to readers. I think this would be normal copyediting. GuardianH (talk) 02:02, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

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Notification of third opinion (3O) request

I listed Talk:Clarence_Thomas#Thurgood_Marshall_image_and_legend at Misplaced Pages:Third_opinion#Active_disagreements. Space4Time3Continuum2x (cowabunga) 19:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

New Jersey Institute of Technology, dropping of summary of sports and medal & fellowship info.

If I have this correctly you dropped a significant portion of the 3rd paragraph of front-page description of NJIT. Maybe it's me, but as far as I can tell similar information is provided in similar locations in most Wiki college pages. I suggest you visit a few, e.g. MIT, RPI, NYU, Illinois Institute of Technology, UC Davis, UCLA, Columbia University. I could go on but if you check their Misplaced Pages pages, I think you will find not only that inclusion of a sports summary and a listing of notable awards/fellowships is the norm among institutions that have them, but also some of those summaries run on longer than the two sentences you apparently decided should be dropped in NJIT's case. Your record suggests that you are highly involved in Misplaced Pages which surprised me given that what you dropped is pretty much standard practice in college write-ups. I haven't had a dispute over content with any editor in years (and only once is my editing life). So, if you think I am wrong about this, could you open a discussion with an arbitrator as I am very rusty. Richard Simone Rrsimone (talk) 18:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Serving in military and serving in government positions

It is unconventional to use the phrase 'serving' for salaried positions at private institutions. He is on salary at Harvard, and Harvard is a private institution where employees and faculty do not 'serve'. Its different for the military and government positions. I'll try a third type of simplified description, otherwise you can take it Talk at the artile talk page. HenryRoan (talk) 19:02, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Mentorship

Hi GuardianH, we know each other from higher-ed stuff. You really know your way around Misplaced Pages. I am no newcomer, myself, with more than 10,000 edits in German and English, but I do have questions from time to time. Mainly it has to do with conflict resolution, the quest for better referencing, puff reduction and so on. Could you take me on as a mentee for these areas? -- Melchior2006 (talk) 07:57, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Melchior2006, I'm unfortunately not the best mentor for such issues, and I fear that I would mislead you in some areas — there are editors much more versed in discussion and conflict resolution than myself. Most of my work is usually a passion project, and as such I try to best avoid any direct conflict. However, I'm always open for the questions, and I'm always willing to collab with you on article! With the amount of stuff on the site, it seems to me that the best teacher is experience; it certainly was for me. GuardianH (talk) 18:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

OK, I see what you mean. If I have questions, I will write you on an ad hoc basis. Is that ok? And as you say, the best way is learning by doing, so if we can collab on some articles, all the better! --Melchior2006 (talk) 07:22, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Of course, no worries. GuardianH (talk) 07:26, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Notification of third opinion (3O) request

I listed Talk:Clarence_Thomas#Thurgood_Marshall_image_and_legend at Misplaced Pages:Third_opinion#Active_disagreements. The editor who responded to the initial listing was blocked as a suspected sockpuppet. Space4Time3Continuum2x (cowabunga) 12:52, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

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John Hart Ely

I have added his second book to his biography with a short summary cited to his book. You are reverting a cited addition to the article. If you did not see the references cited to the book itself, then you should restore the section. HenryRoan (talk) 13:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Summary of books required citations to the book being summarized. This is not NOR. The citations to the book are already there. Start Talk page if needed. HenryRoan (talk) 14:02, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Who is giving the summary? Who is synthesizing information to present it to the reader? When you give a summary, you are condensing information and making editorial decisions what to include, what not to include, and what to write. The only source you provided is the primary source, so these decisions are made by you, which makes it WP:NOR. GuardianH (talk) 21:12, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages editors are the ones who write the summaries on a daily basis for textbooks, novels, plays, and films. MOS states the policy as: "The plot summary for a work, on a page about that work, does not need to be sourced with in-line citations, as it is generally assumed that the work itself is the primary source for the plot summary." HenryRoan (talk) 15:19, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

What you just cited comes from Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction. Ely is nonfiction. You need to cite your sources without WP:NOR. GuardianH (talk) 21:13, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

If you believe that Misplaced Pages policy for summaries for fiction are different than summaries for nonfiction at Misplaced Pages, then that sounds incorrect. As I stated above, summaries for textbooks, novels, plays and films (fiction and nonfiction) do not require citations ("does not need to be sourced" to secondary sources). HenryRoan (talk) 03:58, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Harvard, Radcliffe, and A.B. (not B.A.)

At Harvard (& historically, Radcliffe), Bachelor's degrees are called "A.B", not "B.A.". I've reverted a few of your recent changes but it would save other editors a lot of trouble if you could undo the rest yourself. Special-T (talk) 15:42, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Universities do that for ceremonial purposes. They name it as an "A.B." for the sake of using the Latin artium baccalaureus, and due to the Latin usage a lot of the degree names are in a reverse order. Universities in general do not get to dictate policy on Misplaced Pages, and reflecting this ceremonial usage is WP:JARGON. To take an example, Harvard also still labels their M.S. as S.M., M.A. as A.M., and their B.S. as S.B. We generally don't reflect this for the sake of readability. B.A. as Bachelor of Arts is just fine. GuardianH (talk) 21:30, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Question about maintaining your talk page

Hi GuardianH, I wanted to ask how you deal with unfounded or erroneous comments on your talk page. I noticed that you deleted one recently (I agreed completely with that decision). Do you feel obliged to archive stuff from your talk page? Then there is the "junk mail" one gets from time to time; hardly anyone could argue for archiving that, or what do you say? Thx. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 11:00, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

You're allowed a great deal of free reign over your talk page. I think there's some editors out there who have never even archived their talk page before; my understanding is that you aren't compelled to do so. It's more of a voluntary cleanup/organization task from time to time. As for comments, I try to respond to them even if they are misguided, so as to see if there is a common ground. GuardianH (talk) 21:25, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Adoption

Hey GuardianH, I stumbled upon your user page a short while ago — forgive me if it sounds weird, but I think all the stuff you’ve done is just incredible. I was also an Asian-American high schooler from Massachusetts just a short while ago (played a bit of jazz at NEC and All States here too, might be doxxing myself idk lol, maybe I know you?) and I’ve always really liked history (not as rigorous as you, I think) but most of my edits are just me carrying over DOY stuff from other language DOY pages (like Japanese or Chinese) because I don’t feel like I have enough time in college to pore over academic texts. I’d love to hear what your reading/writing process is for Misplaced Pages as a presumably busy student so I can do more (right now I feel more like I’m filling holes as I see them instead of spending time researching topics and making new pages about them).

P.S. Also, if you end up attending Harvard or MIT I’d love to meet up sometime 😎 Marcustcii (talk) 14:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

@Marcustcii Thank you for your kind words. I always wanted to be a historian when I was a kid, and the field I wanted to specialize in was Byzantine history and become a medievalist based off of the stuff I read from Herrin, Goffart, Ostrogorsky, Kazhdan, and other authors of the Oxford tradition. I think that's largely what has informed my writing the most; my personal bias is that the writing style then was so much more elegant that it is now. So I try to replicate their stylistic approach in summary as much as possible, and I think after you get at it for a long time it enters your subconscious. Same goes for research — you develop an eye and taste for content.

I've shifted a little now. I think it would be very difficult to sustain a lifestyle as a medievalist in the academic field now, which is a terrible shame; my personal sympathies to the field remain, although I've transitioned towards constitutional law and all the great figures which have molded that discipline — Scalia, Hand, and the like. It's so similar to medieval history, in a way. I'm laboring away on Henry Friendly (a personal hero of mine) right now. I don't know if looking at it would get my reading/writing process (I'm a terribly messy thinker as evidenced by the log), but, if I were to guess, that would be the page to look at.

I think all the stuff you’ve done is just incredible – I think you are giving me too much credit! I get into a terrible cycle with articles: after some inspiration all I can do for a few days is work on them, become disillusioned, and the writing is actually quite a disappointment. I end up abandoning a lot altogether, leaving their corpses behind (Malone, White, Rand, and countless other casualties). I'd be willing to speak about my process if you're still interested, but I think there really are much better writers than myself on here that could offer greater insight. GuardianH (talk) 19:18, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Talk page and such

One, I don't know why you're minimizing accomplishments of colleges and universities. I have referenced what you claim was not in print. Two, you said Misplaced Pages allows "great rein" whatever that is on individual talk pages and mentioned archiving. You go on to say that many people (users) don't archive talk pages. The key reason to archive talk pages is length. Who would want to plow through scores and hundreds of entries?Summerdays1 (talk) 19:12, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Removing WP:BOOSTERISM is not minimizing accomplishments of colleges and universities. To the contrary, they are violations of our policies, especially WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. It is also against the consensus established by WP:HIGHEREDREP.

You go on to say that many people (users) don't archive talk pages — I never said that. There are editors who seldom archive their talk page, but they don't seem to form a majority. GuardianH (talk) 20:56, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Apparently you won't listen to me so I'll find an admin. You are a "wrecking ball"; if you feel you need to crusade "one man style" to remove information from colleges and "justifying it" with the few same Misplaced Pages principles... I'll point out that you have been reverted numerous times going back more than a year. I agree some university pages have "fluff". You aren't trying to correct stuff. You're removing too much material and you don't even attempt to remedy or fix articles. Be pro-active and less reactive. You damage this site and it has to end.Summerdays1 (talk) 18:16, 28 December 2023 (UTC)