Talk:Bertrand Russell - Misplaced Pages

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Bertrand Russell was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

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Current status: Delisted good article

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Section sizes

Section size for Bertrand Russell (35 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	12,150	12,150
Biography	14	90,960
Early life and background	5,575	5,575
Childhood and adolescence	7,455	7,455
Education	1,434	1,434
Early career	5,805	5,805
First World War	7,132	7,132
G. H. Hardy on the Trinity controversy	2,633	2,633
Between the wars	12,778	12,778
Second World War	5,794	5,794
Later life	14,117	14,117
Political causes	12,891	12,891
Final years, death and legacy	9,861	15,332
Marriages and issue	5,471	5,471
Titles, awards and honours	540	3,036
Honours and Awards	552	552
Scholastic	1,944	1,944
Views	40	21,036
Philosophy	3,264	3,264
Religion	2,311	2,311
Society	10,956	10,956
Freedom of opinion and expression	819	819
Education	3,646	3,646
Selected works	16,812	16,812
See also	489	489
Notes	26	26
References	185	1,117
Citations	29	29
General and cited sources	34	903
Primary sources	486	486
Secondary sources	383	383
Further reading	302	3,557
Books about Russell's philosophy	1,307	1,307
Biographical books	1,948	1,948
External links	6,432	6,432
Total	155,615	155,615

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I am sure his ignorant antisemitism is mentioned somewhere ...

... but I can't find it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.21.84.208 (talk) 17:45, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Minor edit suggestion: 1916 fine of £100 in today's value seems incorrect

The 1916 fine amount is correct, but I think the recalculation for today should be closer to £2700. This just stands out because £7000 seemed vastly off.

Chamblis (talk) 15:57, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

I checked the Bank of England site, and I am wrong. It is close to the article’s original. BOE says 6000.

Chamblis (talk) 12:35, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Bertrand Russell leads anti-nuclear march in London, Feb 1961.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Lead section

The lead section was recently trimmed here with the edit summary "Because these are the areas that he is most well-known of. Don't dilute the focus of the article with so many qualifiers". I'm not sure some of the key areas of Russell's work can simply be discarded from the lead so easily. What do other editors think? Thanks Martinevans123 (talk) 15:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

The relevant policy is in MOS:LEAD, and for convenience, I will quote the parts I like best here, though most of you are already familiar with this:

The average Misplaced Pages visit is a few minutes long. The lead is the first thing most people will read upon arriving at an article, and may be the only portion of the article that they read. It gives the basics in a nutshell and cultivates interest in reading on—though not by teasing the reader or hinting at what follows. It should be written in a clear, accessible style with a neutral point of view.

The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies. The notability of the article's subject is usually established in the first few sentences. As in the body of the article itself, the emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources. Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.

Let's look at some of the wikilinks trimmed in turn.

Logic: Russell's co-authorship of Principia Mathematica is discussed in the Early Career section, so it can certainly be mentioned in the lead paragraphs, even in the first paragraph. I would draw your attention, however, to the fact that "logic" appeared twice in the first paragraph and four times in the second paragraph before the trim. Could this be rewritten to be less repetitious?

Set theory: Russell's paradox is discussed in the Early career section, so it can certainly be mentioned in the lead paragraphs, even in the first paragraph. In the Early career section, could it clarify things to rearrange the text to explicitly call Russell's paradox a set-theoretic paradox?

Artificial intelligence: This field of study is not mentioned anywhere in this article. Thus, it is certainly a no-no to mention it in the lead paragraphs, let alone in the first paragraph.

Computer science: This field of study is mentioned in only one place in the article, in the See Also section. As with artificial intelligence, we cannot bring up computer science in the lead paragraphs until and unless we have established in the body of the article that Russell made an acknowledged contribution to computer science. By the way, I have to be skeptical of the entry for Russell in List of pioneers in computer science, as it does not cite any sources. Even if (for example) type systems were described in Principia Mathematica, and type systems are used in computer science, it is WP:SYNTH to infer from these two facts that Russell made a contribution to computer science. For us to state that, we must have a reliable source stating that Russell made an acknowledged contribution to computer science.

Cognitive science: Same as with Artificial intelligence.

You get the idea? The first paragraph is not the place to make unsubstantiated claims about Russell. Everything in the lead paragraphs has to be substantiated, with cited sources, in the main body of the article; and everything in the first paragraph in particular, has in addition to be crucial to the article, as it may be the only thing someone reads when they (first) visit this article. Bruce leverett (talk) 03:30, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that critique. I was expecting a reply from User:CactiStaccingCrane. Perhaps a slightly longer edit summary might have helped? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:50, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

So do you think any of those should be replaced in the first paragraph? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:03, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

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