Talk:Khalistan movement - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Astrolamp (talk | contribs) at 04:53, 6 January 2024 (→Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 November 2023: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 04:53, 6 January 2024 by Astrolamp (talk | contribs) (→Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 November 2023: Reply)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Khalistan movement article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 3 months

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Sikhism

This article is part of WikiProject Sikhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Sikhism. Please participate by editing the article, or visit the project page for more details on the projects.

Guidelines: Manual of Style - Naming conventionsSikhismWikipedia:WikiProject SikhismTemplate:WikiProject SikhismSikhism

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

India: Punjab / History / Politics Mid‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Punjab portal This article is supported by WikiProject Punjab (India) (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by the Indian history workgroup (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Indian politics workgroup (assessed as Low-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Religion Mid‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Asian / South Asia / Cold War / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Asian military history task force
	South Asian military history task force
	Cold War task force (c. 1945 – c. 1989)
	Post-Cold War task force

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Politics High‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as High-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Organized crime High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Organized crime task force (assessed as High-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Hardeep Singh Nijjar

Killed in Canada on June 2023. It's important to mention that: He was reportedly organising an unofficial referendum in India for an independent Sikh nation at the time of this death.

References

Aljazeera. "Who was Hardeep Singh Nijjar whose killing triggered India-Canada tensions?". Retrieved 20 September 2023.

Typography and layout

There's a typo in the section "2020s", viz (my bolding):

The arson attempt was promptly surpressed by the San Francisco Department

I think this should be "suppressed". I would be grateful if someone with enough editing privileges were to fix that. Nicolai (talk) 19:31, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Done Thank you for pointing this out. RegentsPark (comment) 20:52, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Improve Lead paragraphs

Here are some new WP:RS references from Sep / Oct 2023 that may help improve the lead to make it more balanced and neutral.

"What is the Khalistan movement and why is it fuelling India-Canada rift?". reuters. 2023-09-19. Archived from the original on 22 September 2023. Retrieved 2023-09-24. Sikh separatists demand that their homeland Khalistan, meaning "the land of the pure", be created out of Punjab. The demand has resurfaced many times, most prominently during a violent insurgency in the 1970s and 1980s which paralysed Punjab for over a decade.

Mogul, Rhea (October 6, 2023). "Why is India so worried about Sikh separatist calls for Khalistan?". CNN. Retrieved October 6, 2023. The decade-long Khalistan insurgency in the 1970s and 80s saw the massacre of civilians, indiscriminate bombings and attacks on Hindus. And in counterinsurgency operations, Indian security forces were accused of a multitude of human rights abuses. RogerYg (talk) 09:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC) RogerYg (talk) 09:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

November

@Capitals00 You have been boldly reverted with adequate explanations in my edit summaries. Please get a consensus for contentious edits here first instead of edit warring per WP:ONUS Kiu99 (talk) 14:27, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

You are not explaining why you are reverting the reliably sourced academically accepted facts. Srijanx22 (talk) 15:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Read the edit summaries then. I am only removing undue content from the lead per WP:NOTSCANDAL. We can't place rumours on the lead in the name of " academically accepted facts". No academic is making these claims Kiu99 (talk) 15:36, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

The other edits I removed are just Indian govt claims which are undue. No academic claims there either Kiu99 (talk) 16:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

It is a well-known academically accepted fact. For example, "Zulfikar Ali Bhutto had supported the Khalistan idea politically at every possible opportunity while under Zia Pakistan's engagement deepened." You stand no chance with your removal of the sourced content. Srijanx22 (talk) 17:16, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

You're not paying attention. The content dispute here is not about if Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto sponsored the movement or not, it is about the ~~BLP violating~~ gossip material about what ZAB said being placed on the lead which looks like a conspiracy theory. I will not rehash the same policy link I referred to again which mentions this, please go through my first comment.

Also, I would be interested to know what is your (and user Capitals00's) opinion about the claims by an Indian govt official being placed on the lead in a very one sided/unbalanced manner (as no denial by the accused is even mentioned)? Kiu99 (talk) 18:58, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

There are no "claims by an Indian govt official being placed on the lead". There is no BLP violation either. Srijanx22 (talk) 13:08, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I posted this on the reliable sources noticeboard just to verify if getting into a content dispute for this dubious quote is even worth it or not, and the response I got was this. So, the statement currently in the lead is misquoted and, in my opinion, highly WP:UNDUE. Lead is supposed to be the summary of the body. The current version starts with the needed intro about what the movement is and one line sentences about the events starting from the 1950's to the 1990's as per body.

The currently misquoted (+misplaced) line on the lead is from the "Outside of India" section for which there already exists a paragraph about support from Pakistan and the Sikh diaspora. Hence making this "quote" excess detail and undue for lead.

I also note that there is currently nothing about the militant groups on the lead mentioned in detail further down the article either, which should be. We shouldn't be giving this much undue weight to content from "outside support" section, especially when it involves a cherry picked line from a detailed interview. See WP:LEADFIX

(Side note: when I said claims by the "Indian govt" I was talking about the Punjab govt minister, who IS part of the Indian govt. But I rather not get into that further, my main objection is the undue misquoted line discussed above) Kiu99 (talk) 12:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Sources have been already provided to you for proving the inportance of the information. It won't get removed from the lead. It speaks of the creation of Khalistan movement. Capitals00 (talk) 13:22, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 November 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In Operation Blue Star section, add the following information from Operation Blue Star wiki article: "Indian forces were aware that civilians were present inside, and the operation began on a Sikh religious day, the martyrdom day of Guru Arjan Dev, when many worshippers would be present."

The invasion of the temple on a Sikh religious holiday, when more worshippers are present than usual, is a highly pertinent historical fact and should be mentioned when discussing the date of the invasion. Suggest adding this after the sentence "Army units led by Lt. Gen. Kuldip Singh Brar (a Sikh), surrounded the temple complex on 3 June 1984." Prabhjote1 (talk) 19:14, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Not done: I'm not seeing how these additions are immediately relevant to the subject of the article, and going into more detail than there already is may not be neutral. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 01:03, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

I disagree, it provides value by providing additional backlight to the readers such that they understand the magnitude of the situations. The article should be as verbose as possible, including sources like these will only provide more mental clarity Astrolamp (talk) 04:53, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Omission of sources/citations that jeopardize the integrity of the article.

Given that the situation involves many political parties, it would be considered pragmatic to use sources that are not partially or holistically funded by these parties as to prevent polarizing and possible biased opinions from influencing and jeopardizing the neutrality of this article.

I'd like to point out the following article for informed choices on the sources: Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Sources

Considering that many of the sources originate in India, such as the The Times of India, the following section may be notable: Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Paid reporting in Indian news organizations Astrolamp (talk) 04:22, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Categories: