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Recent edits
Most the recent edits are from a doctoral thesis. This should only be used very carefully, and given the association of the candidate with the revisionist historian Kosta Nikolic, anything controversial is going to be closely scrutinised, and will need corroboration. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
About number of killed in Bijelo Polje srez Živković writes:
Ђуришић је јавио Михаиловићу да је на муслиманској страни погинуло око 400 бораца и 1.000 жена и деце.2929 Њихово страдање је међутим, била знатно веће. Албански министар Ћазим Блаца (Qazim Bllaca) писао је 26. јануара новоизабраном председнику владе Екрему Љибохови (Ekrem Libohoven), како је на подручју Горњег и Доњег Бихора убијено 7.600 људи, а у Тутин, Рожаје, Петњицу и Бјело Поље избегло око 14.000 муслимана.Радило се ипак, о преувеличаној цифри, будући да је Љибохова 30. јануара преко тутинског префекта добио детаљан извештај од стране „представника избеглица из Бихора“. У њему стоји да је током четничке акције убијено: 775 мушкараца (од тога 185 „масакрираних“), 625 жена (од тога 285 масакрираних) и чак, 1.406 деце разног узраста. Укупно 2.806 лица.
translated into:
Đurišić informed Mihailović that about 400 soldiers and 1,000 women and children had died on the Muslim side.2929 However, their suffering was significantly greater. On January 26, Albanian Minister Qazim Bllaca wrote to the newly elected Prime Minister Ekrem Libohoven that 7,600 people were killed in the area of Gornji and Donji Bihor, and about 14,000 Muslims fled to Tutin, Rožaje, Petnjica and Bjelo Polje. It was, however, an exaggerated figure, since on January 30 Libohoven received a detailed report from the "representative of refugees from Bihor" through the prefect of Tutin. It states that during the Chetnik operation, 775 men were killed (of which 185 were "massacred"), 625 women (of which 285 were massacred) and even 1,406 children of various ages. A total of 2,806 persons.
About February attack:
Цифре из Ђуришићевог исказа се међутим, морају посматрати са великом дозом опреза. На првом месту, документ је настао само неколико дана после завршетка акције током којих је било немогуће евидентирати толики број жртава, обзиром на: широку област где су спровођене операције, велики број спаљених села, обилне снежне падавине и чињенице да су Италијани са одласком црногорских четника почели да врше интезивне рације хапсећи и сукобљавајући се са свим особама затеченим на згариштима муслиманских села у унутрашњости Пљеваљског, Прибојског и Чајничког среза.Навешћемо затим, извештај статистичке секције Одбора за збрињавање муслиманских избеглица у Пљевљима, а о страдању муслиманског становништва почетком фебруара 1943. године на територији Пљеваљског и дела Прибојског среза. Детаљан попис страдалих лица, попаљених села и кућа рађен је два месеца и завршен 18. априла. Он предат и влади НДХ. Према њему на разне начине снаге ЈВуО-а су усмртиле 1.352 лица, међу којима 1.107 жена, деце и стараца. Имена свих жртава су пописана (АЈ, фонд 110, ДКРЗ, кут. 341, стр. 130–135; ЗМП, ИО, фонд 4, НОБ, Непријатељска грађа, инв. бр. 42, стр. 1–4); После рата Удружење бораца Пљевља је по именима и месту рођења пописало 1.419 жртава четничког похода из фебруара 1943. године само на територији Пљеваљског среза (V. Dedijer, A. Miletić, nav. del., str. 768–836); Сличан попис становништва направио је и Месни народни одбор КПЈ-а из Фоче. У њему се тврди, додуше без навођења имена, да је само на простору Прибојског среза ликвидирано 1.106 особа. Сабирањем ове две цифре близу смо Ђуришићевог навода о 2.700 убијених људи, укључујући и борце. Група људи даље, предвођена сакупљачем народних песама и гусларом Џемаилом Арнаутовићем саставила је списак убијених муслимана на територији Прибојског среза и обајвила га 2005. године. Током пописа којег је према речима Арнаутовића спровело 112 особа, прибележена су имена 2.473 особе који су биле убијене од стране снага ЈВуО-а. Списак се односи на страдале током јануара 1942. и фебруара 1943. године, укључујући и борачко становништво. Велика већина је изгубила живот током другог напада, али попис не говори која је жртва када страдала (Dž. Arnautović, nav. del., str. 111, 116– 187); Иако се ради о приватној иницијативи истаживача – аматера, ове бројке се морају узети у разматрање. Уколико их прихватимо, долазимо до броја од нешто мање од 3.892 убијена муслимана у Прибојском и Пљеваљском срезу (због оних убијених почетком 1942. године). Овај списак међутим, још увек чека на документовану научно-методолошку потврду. Било којој прихваћеној цифри би требало додати и страдале муслимане током исте акције у Чајничком и Фочанском срезу. Оне срећом, услед правовремене евакуације локалних муслимана преко Дрине, нису велике. Према подацима ДКРЗ-а од 626 убијених муслимана на простору Чајничког среза током окупације, само је око 200 лица страдало током 1943. године. За већину такође, није био утврђен датум смрти. Исто важи и за Фочански срез, где је од 3.525 муслиманских жртава у току рата око 150 лица страдало фебруара 1943. године (V. Dedijer, A. Miletić, nav. del., str. 640–694, 723–734); На крају, колики год да су били губици које је муслимански живаљ претрпео фебруара 1943. године у ова четири среза, они су доста мањи од оних које је навео мајор Ђуришић у обраћању Михаиловићу 13. фебруара 1943. године.
or translated:
The figures from Đurišić's testimony, however, must be viewed with a great deal of caution. In the first place, the document was created only a few days after the end of the action, during which it was impossible to record such a large number of victims, considering: the wide area where the operations were carried out, the large number of burnt villages, heavy snowfall and the fact that the Italians, with the departure of the Montenegrin Chetniks, began to carry out intensive raids, arresting and confronting all persons found at the burning sites of Muslim villages in the interior of the Pljevlja, Priboj and Čajnica regions.We will then cite the report of the statistical section of the Committee for the Care of Muslim Refugees in
Pljevlja, and about the suffering of the Muslim population at the beginning of February 1943 the territory of Pljevlja and part of Priboj county. Detailed list of victims, burned villages and the house was built for two months and finished on April 18. They was also handed over to the NDH government. According to them on various JVuO forces killed 1,352 people, including 1,107 women, children and the elderly. Names of the victims were listed. After the war, the Pljevlja Veterans Association is named after place of birth listed 1,419 victims of the Chetnik campaign from February 1943 only on in the territory of the Pljeval county similar list population was also made by the Local People's Committee of the KPJ from Foča. It claims, albeit without naming, that 1,106 people were liquidated in the area of Pribojski srez alone By adding these two figures, we are close to Đurišić's allegation of 2,700 people killed, including fighters. A group of people further on, led by folk song collector and fiddler Džemail Arnautović, compiled a list of Muslims killed in the territory of the Priboj County and published it in 2005. During the census, which, according to Arnautović, was carried out by 112 people, the names of 2,473 people who were killed by JVuO forces were recorded. The list refers to those who died during January 1942 and February 1943, including the military population. The vast majority lost their lives during the second attack, but the census does not say which victim died when. Although it is a private initiative of amateur researchers, these figures must be taken into consideration. If we accept them, we arrive at a number of slightly less than 3,892 Muslims killed in the Priboj and Pljeval counties (due to those killed at the beginning of 1942). This list, however, is still waiting for a documented scientific-methodological confirmation. Any accepted figure should also include the Muslims who died during the same action in Čajniče and Foča srez. Fortunately, due to the timely evacuation of local Muslims across the Drina, they are not large. According to DKRZ data, out of 626 Muslims killed in the area of Čajnički srez during the occupation, only about 200 people died in 1943. For the majority, too, the date of death was not determined. The same is true for the Foča section, where out of 3,525 Muslim victims during the war, around 150 persons perished in February 1943. In the end, whatever the losses Muslim population suffered in February In 1943, in these four counties, they are much smaller than those mentioned by Major Đurišić in
address to Mihailović on February 13, 1943.
I also wanted to mention in some capacity historian Radanović work "Noć osvetljena lomačama sa kojih se dizao plamen do neba..." Zločini JVuO nad muslimanskim stanovništvom u Pribojskom srezu februara 1943.(2019)(trans. "A night illuminated by bonfires from which flames rose to the sky..." Crimes of JVuO against the Muslim population in Priboj County in February 1943.) On the topic at hand - number of killed during February massacres:
Broj poginulih pripadnika Muslimanske milicije koji su izgubili život u borbama protiv JVuO tokom februarske vojne
operacije bio je nekoliko puta manji, možda i desetak puta manji, od broja koji navodi Đurišić (oko 1.200). Broj ubijenih civila koji pominje Đurišić (do 8.000) dvostruko je uveličan u odnosu na realan broj ubijenih muslimanskih civila od 5. do 13.2.1943, pri čemu, za razliku od Đurišića, mislim i na muškarce civile, ne samo na žene, decu i starce. Prema mojoj proceni, nakon 13.2.1943, odnos no nakon datuma kada je Đurišić poslao izveštaj Mihailoviću, na području Pribojskog i Pljevaljskog sreza ubijeno je između 1.000 i 2.000 Muslimana, pri čemu se većina odnosi na stanovnike Pribojskog sreza. Istorijska nauka još uvek nije dala odgovor na pitanje koliko je Muslimana stradalo u četničkom teroru od 5. do 25.2.1943. na području zapadnog Sandžaka i gornjeg Podrinja. Prema mojoj proceni, u tom razdoblju JVuO je ubila preko 5.000 Muslimana, ogromnom većinom civila, pod uslovom da naučno bude dokazano da je u Pribojskom srezu ubijeno oko 2.379 osoba, koliko ih poimenice navodi Arnautovićev spisak. Da li je i koliko je realan broj stradalih veći od 5.000 pokazaće buduća istraživanja. U svakom slučaju, moja pretpostavka je da je broj žrtava veći od 5.000. Moja istraživanja vezana za stradanje stanovnika Pljevaljskog sreza, koja nameravam predstaviti u jednom drugom radu, pokazala su da u tri spiska žrtava postoje poimenični podaci za oko 1.987 muslimanskih stanovnika Pljevaljskog sreza koji su ubijeni februara 1943, tokom i nakon vojne operacije JVuO.
or translated
The number of dead members of the Muslim militia who lost their lives in the fighting against the JVuO during the February military
operations was several times smaller, perhaps ten times smaller, than the number stated by Đurišić (about 1,200). The number of killed civilians mentioned by Đurišić (up to 8,000) is doubled compared to the real number of Muslim civilians killed from 5 to 13 February 1943, where, unlike Đurišić, I am also referring to male civilians, not only women, children and old man. According to my estimation, after February 13, 1943, the date when Đurišić sent the report to Mihailović, between 1,000 and 2,000 Muslims were killed in the area of Priboj and Pljevlja County, with the majority referring to the inhabitants of Priboj County. Historical science has not yet given an answer to the question of how many Muslims perished in Chetnik terror from February 5 to 25, 1943. in the area of western Sandžak and upper Podrinje. According to my estimation, in that period JVuO killed over 5,000 Muslims, the vast majority of them civilians, provided that it is scientifically proven that around 2,379 people were killed in the Priboj County, as many as Arnautović's list states by name. Whether and to what extent the real number of victims is greater than 5,000 will be shown by future research. In any case, my guess is that the number of victims is higher than 5,000. My research related to the suffering of the residents of Pljevaljski srez, which I intend to present in another paper, showed that in three lists of victims there are name data for about 1,987 Muslim residents of Pljevalja Countywho were killed in February 1943, during and after the military operation JVuO. Kaubojdzordz (talk) 15:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
This is very weak and based mainly on supposition and amateur work. I don't think any of it can be used in Wikivoice, especially given the fact he readily admits the numbers are not known with any clarity. He readily admits he is guessing. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:12, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
Fair, it is an educated guess. Probably best not to change anything for now, until there is more work done about massacres in both Bijelo Polje County in January, as well as 4 Counties in February. Kaubojdzordz (talk) 11:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
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