Talk:Josip Broz Tito - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Doremo (talk | contribs) at 03:16, 14 March 2024 (→Native name in SC Cyrillic: comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 03:16, 14 March 2024 by Doremo (talk | contribs) (→Native name in SC Cyrillic: comment)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Josip Broz Tito article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13Auto-archiving period: 30 days

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Josip Broz Tito. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Josip Broz Tito at the Reference desk.

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Josip Broz Tito was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 4, 2008	Good article nominee	Not listed

Facts from this article were featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on April 5, 2004, April 5, 2005, April 5, 2006, April 7, 2009, January 14, 2015, January 14, 2018, and January 14, 2021.

This

level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Biography: Military / Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Top-importance).

Socialism Top‑importance

	Socialism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Yugoslavia Top‑importance

	Josip Broz Tito is within the scope of WikiProject Yugoslavia, a collaborative effort to improve the Misplaced Pages coverage of articles related to Yugoslavia and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.YugoslaviaWikipedia:WikiProject YugoslaviaTemplate:WikiProject YugoslaviaYugoslavia
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Bosnia and Herzegovina High‑importance

	Bosnia and Herzegovina portal Josip Broz Tito is part of the WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Bosnia and Herzegovina on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Bosnia and HerzegovinaWikipedia:WikiProject Bosnia and HerzegovinaTemplate:WikiProject Bosnia and HerzegovinaBosnia and Herzegovina
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Croatia: Zagreb High‑importance

	Croatia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Zagreb task force.

Kosovo Mid‑importance

	Josip Broz Tito is part of WikiProject Kosovo, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Kosovo on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.KosovoWikipedia:WikiProject KosovoTemplate:WikiProject KosovoKosovo
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Montenegro High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Montenegro, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Montenegro on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MontenegroWikipedia:WikiProject MontenegroTemplate:WikiProject MontenegroMontenegro
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

North Macedonia Mid‑importance

	North Macedonia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject North Macedonia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of North Macedonia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.North MacedoniaWikipedia:WikiProject North MacedoniaTemplate:WikiProject North MacedoniaNorth Macedonia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Serbia: Belgrade High‑importance

	Serbia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Serbia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SerbiaWikipedia:WikiProject SerbiaTemplate:WikiProject SerbiaSerbia
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Belgrade task force (marked as High-importance).

Slovenia Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Slovenia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Slovenia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SloveniaWikipedia:WikiProject SloveniaTemplate:WikiProject SloveniaSlovenia

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Slovenia to-do list:

Here are some tasks you can do (watch):

Requests: , Protestant Reformation in the Slovene Lands (sl), Metlika black (sl)
Wikify: Russia–Slovenia relations
Unreferenced: Inner Carniola, Litostroj, Pavel Golia, Predjama Castle
Cleanup: Edvard Ravnikar, Škofja Loka, Inex-Adria Aviopromet Flight 1308
Expand: Education in Slovenia
Stubs: Ajdovi žganci, Čop Street, Radenska
NPOV: Gregorij Rožman, Siddharta (band)
Portal maintenance: Update News, Did you know, announcements, and suggest Selected article and picture
Help assess the quality of 36 unassessed articles
Take/Add requested photographs

Cold War Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cold War, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Cold War on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cold WarWikipedia:WikiProject Cold WarTemplate:WikiProject Cold WarCold War
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Biography / Balkan / European / World War I / World War II / Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Balkan military history task force (c. 500–present)
	European military history task force
	World War I task force
	World War II task force
	Cold War task force (c. 1945 – c. 1989)

NKVD Officer?

In and category below it shows, it says that Tito was a nkvd officer. If its true? there's no evidence of that in the article itself Ataman (talk) 22:09, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

He's been accused of participating in the killing of leading Yugoslav comrades, such as Milan Gorkić. This biography is faulty. TheUzbek (talk) 22:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

The reason why I edited this wikipedia page is because what I edited looks more correct in my context of my edit in this wikipedia page.

the reason why I edited this page will be revealed. 2601:243:1A00:6E30:802F:5D48:5540:AA9D (talk) 06:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

It is duplication of information already there or is not important enough detail for the lead. Don't re-add it please. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:51, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

but why? He should have been called leader of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia by being considered as the prime minister/leader of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. And I promise I will make my edit correct and I will stop editing. So please let me do that and if my edit looks good enough or has good info that I make it look more good enough then I will stop editing. 2601:243:1A00:6E30:42E:A16F:23B8:4EAA (talk) 18:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

The first paragraph of the lead section contains only the most important general facts about Tito. Additional offices are covered later in the lead section and in the infobox. –Vipz (talk) 18:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

But can i be allowed to edit to say that he was the leader/prime minister of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia so that way it doesn't look like he became the leader of Yugoslavia in 1953? 2601:243:1A00:6E30:7461:9837:8F5D:D14E (talk) 22:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Or can you do that for me please? 2601:243:1A00:6E30:7461:9837:8F5D:D14E (talk) 22:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

There, I mentioned his prime minister office in the first lede paragraph. Cheers. –Vipz (talk) 00:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

ok. Cheers to you. 2601:243:1A00:6E30:B072:99CA:5C53:F802 (talk) 17:07, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Native name in SC Cyrillic

A couple of days ago, the subject's name in Serbo-Croatian Cyrillic was removed by editor @Andro611 from the infobox on the basis that Serbo-Croatian was in fact not the subject's native language. This relies on the presumption that Serbo-Croatian is not a single language, or in this case, as if it was not acknowledged as such during the subject's lifetime. Languages spoken by Tito are documented in a paragraph in § Family and personal life. Tito claimed Serbo-Croatian as his native language. Specifics about his accent or native Kajkavian dialect being a supradialect under a wider language vs. its own language are other topics that need not be discussed here. SC Cyrillic writing of Josip Broz Tito's name should be returned to the infobox. –Vipz (talk) 15:14, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

His native name is the same as his name in English, so this parameter would have been unnecessary but for the fact that in his native language two scripts are used, and when his name is written down in the non-Latin script it is no longer the same, script-wise. Therefore, using this parameter to record the native name in the aspect in which it differs from English is consistent with the purpose of the parameter. I agree with Vipz. —Alalch E. 17:16, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I also agree with Vipz for the reasons stated above. The Cyrillic form of the name should be returned to the infobox. Doremo (talk) 18:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

There are a few things to unpack here. I removed the Cyrillic not on the presumption that Serbo-Croatian is not a single language nor was is about the “Kajkavian dialect being a supradialect under a wider language vs. its own language” which was a topic brought up by @Vipz in this diff. I removed based on the simple fact the Cyrillic script was never used in Hrvatsko Zagorje where Tito is from nor in Slovenia where he was raised. It was used neither before nor during his life and implying he wrote his name in Cyrillic in his native language is absurd. Why not add it to Tuđman's infobox? Or the Herzegovian Ante Pavelić? Both of whom were more Serbo-Croatian than the Slovenian-raised and descended Tito ever was. Pavelić was from a Serbian majority village, surely Serbian was spoken there.

Secondly, extending Cyrillic to Croat-majority Croatia is a pars pro toto logical fallacy. Even language unitarists did not try to impose Cyrillic on Croatia. Croatia in Yugoslavia had its own variety of Serbo-Croatian called “hrvatskosrpski” or Croatoserb which was exclusively written in the latin alphabet and ijekavica. This wasn't some fringe linguistic nationalism, this was state policy done by unitarists themselves. After 1967 the scholarly consensus in Croatia was that Croatian was a separate language precluding any potential use of Cyrillic in the future, nevermind the fact that it wasn't even used anywhere among Croats prior to 1967.

To write Tito's native name in Cyrillic because some parts of the Serbo-Croatian sprachraum (not his birth place!) use Cyrillic is akin to writing Beijing-born Xi Jinping's native name in Portuguese because one specific part of China, that is Macau, uses Portuguese. Andro611 (talk) 18:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Serbo-Croatian Cyrillic script is far more pertinent to Josip Broz Tito than any other leaders you mention. Tito is notable not for being born/raised in Zagorje, Croatia or Slovenia, but for leading a country whose primary language had two official, fully equal scripts, Latin and Cyrillic. Were Tito to have presided over only one republic in federal Yugoslavia that did not use Cyrillic, perhaps this would not be the case, but he presided over the whole country straight from the headquarters in Belgrade, SR Serbia. –Vipz (talk) 19:39, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Pavelić presided over a country with a similar percentage of Serbs to Tito's Yugoslavia. Your point over where he presided from and his notability is irrelevant. The infobox asks for his name in his native language. Not the language of the country or place he ruled from. Tito was raised in an environment that used and still uses the latin alphabet exclusively.

This is Tito's own personal diary. Written in the latin alphabet. This should be conclusive proof that his native writing was indeed the latin alphabet. Andro611 (talk) 21:10, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

This is irrelevant. Stalin's native language was Georgian, but we also present his name in Russian Cyrillic in the "native name" field. The Cyrillic form of the name should be returned to the infobox. Doremo (talk) 03:16, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Categories: