Talk:List of sovereign states

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This list has a detailed criteria for inclusion. Please do not add new entries without prior discussion. Items that do not fit the set criteria, such as Antarctica, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta and polities normally classified as dependent territories, micronations, supranational unions or constituent political divisions will be removed.

This list has a detailed criteria for organization. Please do not change the categorizations in the table without prior discussion. Changes to the organization of the list of states that go against consensus will be reverted. For more details on the organization criteria, please review the discussion of criteria.

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Date	Process	Result
January 22, 2006	Featured list candidate	Promoted
November 29, 2008	Featured list removal candidate	Demoted
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July 16, 2011	Articles for deletion	Kept
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Discussions:

RM, List of sovereign states → List of countries, No consensus, 2 November 2016, Talk:List of sovereign states/Archive 14#Requested move 2 November 2016
RM, List of sovereign states → List of countries, Not moved, 7 February 2022, Talk:List of sovereign states/Archive 15#Requested move 7 February 2022

Older discussions:
RM, List of countries → List of sovereign states and dependent territories, No consensus, 19 November 2008, Talk:List of countries/Archive 4#Proposed move RM, List of countries → List of sovereign states, Redirected, 21 November 2008, Talk:List of countries/Archive 4#Proposal

Somaliland is now recognised by the Republic of China (Taiwan)

Request for change to list item for Somaliland to reflect this 123.243.26.26 (talk) 04:46, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Please see the discussion at Talk:List of states with limited recognition/Archive 14#Somaliland and Taiwan. CMD (talk) 05:39, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Seems to support Somaliland's inclusion. Otherwise, we should remove Somaliland from this article since it has no recognition as a state. 2001:8003:900C:5301:ED5E:AD76:97D7:6D20 (talk) 04:52, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Somaliland meets the criteria for inclusion in this article even if its sovereignty has not been recognized by any other sovereign state (it is often regarded as satisfying the declarative theory of statehood). AuH2ORepublican (talk) 13:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Chechen Republic of Ichkeria should be in "other states" category

In 2022 UN-member Ukraine recognised Chechen Republic of Ichkeria as independent nation. While it does not possess territory or population due to 100% of its territory being controlled by Russian Federation, it still is a partially-recognised state. It should be put in "Other States" category. SOROSHENKO (talk) 18:42, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Declared states which do not control territory are not listed here, even if they are recognized by a state. Otherwise this page would need to start engaging with micronation claims. Ichkeria met the criteria for inclusion prior to its takeover by Russia, but that predated the existence of this page.Astrofreak92 (talk) 23:02, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

How many micronations are recognised by UN founding members? SOROSHENKO (talk) 10:24, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Astrofreak92 is incorrect, the page would include states which have recognition but lack control (or does include perhaps, depending on how you define it). All states for which we have firm sources noting recognition are in this list. Ukraine has not recognized Ichkeria as a state, despite some claims on particular news cites. If Ukraine did recognize them, expect far more coverage. CMD (talk) 10:52, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

This is not true. My comment at AfD applies here:

Ukraine has not recognized the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. "As of 18 October 2022, the decision of the Verkhovna Rada to recognize the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria as temporarily occupied by Russia awaits the signature of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.... In early November, Zelenskyy responded to the Verkhovna Rada's vote and a petition with 25,000 signatures by ordering the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs to research if, how, and in which form Ukraine could recognize the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. He emphasized that it was the Ukrainian President's prerogative to extend full diplomatic recognition to other states." Therefore the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria does not fall under the constitutive theory. It no longer falls under the declarative theory, since it had lost all of its defined territory, permanent population, and effective government in the Second Chechen War... As far as I can tell, "Zelenskyy responded to the Verkhovna Rada's vote and a petition with 25,000 signatures by ordering the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs to research if, how, and in which form Ukraine could recognize the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. He emphasized that it was the Ukrainian President's prerogative to extend full diplomatic recognition to other states." i.e., no recognition. And regardless, the very lead of the CHRI article says this: "The Chechen Republic of Ichkeria was a de facto state that controlled most of the former Checheno-Ingush ASSR. Since the 2000s, several entities have claimed to be an exile government of Ichkeria." Its description in the wiki search says "former unrecognized country". Enwiki itself makes it clear this was a state that no longer exists.

JM2023 (talk) 02:04, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Artsakh - gone now?

Artsakh announced its intention to dissolve by today. Is it officially gone? 108.160.120.91 (talk) 00:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Apparently, they reversed their intentions to dissolve by Jan 1, though that information may actually be fake, so now? Who knows. Whether they announced or not, they do not control any territory at this point, and so they do not meet the criteria to be considered a sovereign state. They are more akin to a government-in-exile than anything else. As of now they are not dissolved, so IMO, there's one of two ways to treat this. Either Artsakh is treated as a government-in-exile, or we keep the status quo on the page until more information comes out regarding the circumstances in the area. Spesh531 08:11, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

I apologize for the mistakes, I do not fully speak English, but it seems to me that in the second paragraph of the article something is confused in the numbers.

"...16 states, of which there are 6 UN member states, 1 UN General Assembly non-member observer state, and 8 de facto states...": 6 + 1 + 8 ≠ 16.

And in addition, nothing has been fixed here at all — there are still 206 states: "On the basis of the above criteria, this list includes the following 206 entities:

203 states recognised by at least one UN member state

2 states that satisfy the declarative theory of statehood and are recognised only by non-UN member states

1 state that satisfies the declarative theory of statehood and is not recognised by any other state". 2A00:1FA2:C251:E972:0:4F:4D54:6201 (talk) 09:14, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Somaliland is diplomatically accepted by Ethiopia. It's not 'unrecognized by any other state'

For that matter, the S.M.O.M. is recognized as a state by at least Costa Rica and San Marino, and so by the logic presented herein should be included as a state as well as a sovereign subject of international law. 142.127.178.197 (talk) 18:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Holy See

TDL, the Vatican is a state; the Holy See is a different thing and cannot be described as a state. It is the episcopal see (or diocese) of the Pope and the central government of the Catholic Church. Its "territory" is the whole city of Rome, not just the Vatican. The Vatican is that part of the Holy See under sovereign/state authority of the Pope. By calling the Holy See "a non-member-state observer" the UN is not calling it a state. It's just saying that it's an observer and not a member-state.Barjimoa (talk) 10:51, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

As mentioend in my edit summary, the Holy See is recognized as a Non-Member-State by the UN (see here: ), so the language in the article here is correct.

The UN has another cateogory for non-state observers (see here), so calling it a state which is non member observer. It was a big deal back when Palestine's status at the UN was upgraded from "just" an observer to a non-member state observer (like the Holy See), which was broadly interpreted as the UN recognizing its statehod. See for example. TDL (talk) 02:22, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree it's been interpreted as such for Palestine, but not for the Holy See. No one describes the Holy See as a state in international law, everyone does it for the Vatican. In fact, even this article lists the Vatican and not the Holy See; the problem is that this article is simply and evidently mistaken in treating the Holy See as if it's the same thing of the Vatican city. It ought to be corrected, no? A state is generally agreed to have: a sivereign territory, a population, a government. What's the population, sovereign territory and government of the Holy See? The Holy See is the bishopric of Rome (embodied by the Pope), and bishoprics are divisions inside the Catholic Church, not states. The Vatican is a state (with a territory, a population, a government) over which the Holy See has sovereignity.Barjimoa (talk) 05:12, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes I understand all of that, and if you are proposing to add further clarity in the description of the Vatican City text description then I'm supportive of that.

However, none of that changes the fact that the UN does recognize the Holy See as a non-member observer state and so we must descirbe it as such. We can't describe it as something else just because you think that the UN is wrong. If the UN didn't think it was a state, it would be recognized as an observer entity, much like the SMOM for example (see ). You can read the most recent UN resolution for yourself, it is very clear: "Acknowledges that the Holy See, in its capacity as an Observer State...".

The way you worded things would have led us to conclude that Palestine was a UN recognized state prior to the 2012 resolution (since it was recognized as an observer entity at that point), at a time when it clearly was not. Observer states and observer entities are different, and it's only the latter that is relevant to this list/context. We need to keep that clear in the text, otherwise it opens the door to debating the inclusion of various observer entities. TDL (talk) 18:32, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

There is a problem

For South Korea, it says there is no soviergenty dispute, even though it’s not reconized by North Korea. Blackmamba31248 (talk) 00:17, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

A result of this edit. This is likely related to the media hype surrounding their recent constitutional change, which some media claimed was recognition. CMD (talk) 01:17, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Well, it’s not really a recognition. This is this like saying Isreal reconizes Palestine because they are Enemies. Blackmamba31248 (talk) 01:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

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