Talk:Jimmy Carr - Misplaced Pages

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Personal life - removing inaccurate information/depression

I've had a bunch of edits rolled back and need some guidance, please.

For example - the 2nd para of "personal life" says he has spoken of depression and this is not true and the citation quoted only uses the words "mental health". He has discussed this a lot (in podcasts) and specifically says that Depression is a medical issue that is treated with pharmaceuticals and that he was just sad. Basically he's said many times that people conflate Sadness with Depression and shouldn't. So that para is completely the wrong way around. SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 15:35, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Here's a source saying he had 'bouts of depression': https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/74912824/jimmy-carr-talks-religion-war-and-ribald-jokes-before-his-nz-tour

He talks more about his mental health here and here and here. The previous sentence, which read: "Carr has spoken of the depression he experienced in his 20s, while working in marketing, and credits his decision to pursue a comedy career in helping him to cope with depression", was removed here Martinevans123 (talk) 21:19, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello, good morning. The thing i was trying to be more clear about is, more recently (past couple of years) he's talked about the epidemic of male suicide and depression (and supported charities) and tried to be clearer about the distinction between sadness (which is how he felt when he left his job) and depression. Also, the original citation used only said "mental health" - so, at the very least, a diff citation was needed (preferably a more recent one).

BTW - That first link (religion, war and ribald jokes) has no mention of "bouts of depression" in it? I may not be awake yet - but have read it 3 times. :o))

Podcast chats are where he's been clearest and although he's been a teeny bit fast and loose with the terms at times (saying he can white knuckle through it) he mostly is very clear that depression is a long term disease that requires medication - and he takes nothing for it. Even after the tax thing (when he thought he'd lost everything) - his Dr gave him meds and he never took them.

His Diary of a CEO pod may be a good one as it's in chapters and has one on mental health (should only take you 5 mins to listen). I'm always happier to listening to someone explain themselves, rather than the interpretation of a journo. I think when you stagger off a long-haul flight and into an interview even the best of us may fluff a line or two.

I suppose where I'm coming from, too, is that I had a depressed parent (lifelong meds) and I also like to keep my language "clean" about the difference between the real "black dog" - and the ups and downs of coping with deaths and the problems of life. My situation probably means I honed in on those mentions more.

Does that make sense? Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 06:24, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I was just offering some sources, thanks. Janet Street-Porter, in that 2017 The Independent piece, agrees with him that "Not everyone who claims to be suffering from depression actually is – some of us are just sad", despite his annoying comments BBC Radio 4's Desert Island Discs. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:37, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

The problem i often see is I listen to a podcast (all kinds of people) and it gets into the news, for some reason, and a teeny, subtle change of a word completely changes the context. Usually to make it more clickbait-y.

And every time there is a joke controversy (usually Carr or Gervais or Chappelle) the press declare "fans were outraged" - when usually it's 3 people on X who don't like comedy and weren't at the show anyway. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 15:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Podcast issues aside, do you think something needs to be added about Carr's mental health/ depression/ feelings of sadness? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:32, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

If you think it's a good idea I could cobble something together. Might be worth waiting a couple of weeks as Triggernometry said last week that they had recorded a new pod (and it's not been released yet) and another podcaster tweeted how excited he was to be "going down to London" for a record. I'm guessing that they will poss come out when the new Netflix Special drops. Or the 2 he's already done on Neal Brennan's Blocks were very interesting, talking about insecurity about looks/weight and their childhoods. Neal has had real depression and tried all kinds of meds. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

By all means go ahead, although I think there may already be enough material in sources other than his podcasts. Not sure how Neal Brennan fits in. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry - missed this - bit busy with work. NB is a good friend of JC and has been on meds for 20+ years. There is a scary clip of him having ECT treatment. He's now (finally) getting relief from ayahuasca, apparently. I just thought that might be a good one to use as they get the topic in some depth (will have to re-watch it sometime). Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 08:54, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

... "a scary clip of him having ECT treatment"? Really? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah - it's in one of the Blocks podcasts he did with JC. You know someone has bad depression when they are desperate enough to try that. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:04, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

That sounds quite significant. This must have been mentioned by WP:RS elsewhere? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:10, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry - i'm coming out of a migraine and not making much sense. Was I clear that I meant that it was Neal who had ECT? I'm so dopey i almost typed ECG earlier...should probably step away from the keyboard. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

No worries. Best discussed at Neal Brennan, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:26, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

I've given it a go - what do you think? I started the citation link from the point where he started to discuss ayahuasca. As his Blocks podcast was not mentioned (it's a year old) I added that section first. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 14:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

He's not really on my watchlist, sorry. But will try and have a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Radio

I added the text below to the radio section and it was rejected. Can anyone tell me why, please?

Carr has appeared on BBC Radio 4's Museum of Curiosity a total of 7 times, since 2011. He was the Museum Curator (in his 5 appearances in 2012) and a guest on the 2018 Annual Stock Take Christmas special, alongside Lee Mack, Jo Brand and Sally Philips. SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Did you have any sources for all those claims? BBC episodes are usually easy to source. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes. I might have used https://www.comedy.co.uk/radio/museum_curiosity/episodes/ because it's all gathered in one place. On the BBC site there are 72 episodes and so referencing ONE person amongst them is tricky https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k3wvk/episodes/player SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 16:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

His list might be better? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't know. Don't mind either way. SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 16:50, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

have added and linked to BCG as suggested SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 16:01, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Edinburgh

I’ve just added a new section (under Stand-up comedy) for Edinburgh – to summarise Carr’s appearances at the annual Festival. Really, really hoping that this passes muster and doesn’t get nuked – can anyone see any tweaks that are necessary, please?

I extracted this info from some broader research, on comedy festivals, that I’ve been doing for someone else’s project and have tried to convey how important this festival was to his career. And the room/venue sizes are mentioned to try and demonstrate how he moved up a gear each time he returned. Ditto the mention of TV shows – indicating audience growth.

And the 2007 mention of The Guardian attitude change was indicative of a wider backlash against big names. Some think only people like Sadowitz should be promoted – others acknowledge that a “name” at the EICC draws punters in, which is better for everyone. I suspect this debate played a part in 2014 being his last attendance, but couldn’t find a specific reference to it.

I know that, in the early years, many of our (now) big-name comedians drove up there together and have talked about the bonding process of chatting in the car / dossing down in each other’s rented flats, running around seeing shows and then eating takeaways. I just can’t find the interviews right now – but may add to the relevant people’s pages when I do (if it adds value). I’ve got a LOT of information.

I just called it “Edinburgh”, btw, because the TV festival is also mentioned in there.

Question about the 3 paragraph in the current Stand-up section – should I eventually move that down to a chronological spot within “Edinburgh”? I moved a paragraph once previously and the change was rejected.

Paragraph 5 – the final line is a repeat of my Edinburgh info (if it gets passed). Should it stay?

And also the 7 paragraph says that Rapier Wit “….tour opened on 20 August 2009 with nine shows at the Edinburgh Festival”. That citation 46 (which will probably renumber when I add my stuff)

1. "Tour Dates". Ents24.com. Archived from the original on 4 January 2011. Retrieved 10 March 2011.

is now dead and the official Edinburgh programme said it was 8 shows. Shall I wait to see what you peeps say before altering/removing that?

Nervously waiting for approval…worse than being at school! SecretSquirrel9 (talk) 11:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

America

Trying to use search engines for research is very difficult lately as the algorithms push you towards what they THINK you are looking for, regardless of how many search operators etc. you use. Which means, while researching the Edinburgh information I had to use really broad search terms, only restricted by date filters.

Although an annoyance – it meant that I’ve collected a LOT of information on other un-related people, gigs and events. Much of which will probably now have to wait until the Winter for me to sort through (chores to do and all that).

Despite making so many trips Stateside (virtually once or twice a year) there are very few press reports. UK MSM are not interested (unless it’s a “cancel x person for a joke” story) and BCG / Chortle appear to be pretty much run on a shoe string and so rely on being fed stories. We don’t celebrate our UK comedy scene enough!!

The LA Comedy Store, for example, is legendary (to comedians and comedy fans) as the place that developed everyone from Richard Pryor to Robin Williams to Jim Carrey. As an Alumnus of the club (a rare honour, to be bestowed upon a Brit) Carr can turn up any time he’s in town and just perform. But finding an official record is tricky – so I’ve had to leave it a bit vague and have left many appearances out (not sure the Misplaced Pages guidelines would accept single tweets from punters).

Where I’ve felt it’s important to note an appearance I’ve used, for example, the X account of the official Comedy Store, so that it’s not just some random user who might have their account removed. Is that acceptable?

Although I would imagine some would think that listing too many TV shows is trying to turn this into IMDB – my perspective is that the American late-night shows give massive exposure and a Brit artist getting repeated invites to these shows is a huge career boost. There are many, many more shows he has appeared on – these are just the biggies.

I’ve highlighted Netflix a fair bit as he seems to be well regarded and “plays nicely” with other comedians – hence his collaborations. Again – there are many more that I couldn’t find citations for, where has worked with / supported other US stars.

The one thing that I think someone may “object” to is the section main title “America” then covering TV and stand up, which doesn’t fit the format of the paragraphs above.

A lot of work has gone into this so, if anyone is unhappy, can we please talk about it, rather than just nuke the lot…always nervous about doing a big update. And it’s heartbreaking when something gets removed without warning. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 13:17, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

SUFH 2023 _ Daily Mail Citation

Hello @Davidgerard

I would like to restore my citation (2023 SUFH – Daily Mail) and so am launching this discussion.

One of the things that I find frustrating about editing Misplaced Pages is how different people have such differing opinions (of how to apply the rules) and so, months after editing something, one person can decide that it doesn’t fit somehow and you are back at square 1 and having to dig out old notes.

I’m assuming you think the DM is an “unreliable tabloid” but in this instance it’s a properly reported story of a charity event, that occurred in a different country. With regard to this particular type of event – why would something be more legitimate if it was in the Grauniad? (or similar).

As it’s a British Comedian at a US event it didn’t get a lot of coverage and this was the BEST overview I could find. And when I say the best – it’s getting harder and harder to find stories that are not behind a paywall and, as more MSM websites struggle financially, this is only going to get worse. I always try and find something that everyone can read and that delivers all the facts.

With this event there is a link that I could use, from the Bob Woodruff Foundation, that says who was GOING to be there – but I thought a story, written after the event, that had proof and pictures was more appropriate.

Regardless of who is behind the URL – should accuracy and photographs not count for something? I get why there is an overall feeling that tabloids are to be avoided – but isn’t it a little knee jerk to just see “Daily Mail” and reject, without actually looking at the content?

Can we talk? :o)) Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 06:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Talking to myself (I find I get more sense this way!)... I've put the DM link back in as, apart from photos on places like Getty images, the only other really visible information was the announcement on the Woodruff Foundation site (which I've also added).

As mentioned above - I have inserted both as the Woodruff link was only announcing the "intent" for him to host, whereas the DM story is confirmation that it really happened. I think having both completes the circle. Comedy Nerd77 (talk) 09:40, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

If the only independent source for something happening is the Daily Mail, it is rather an indication that it isn't that significant, I'd have to suggest. And the Mail says very little about Carr anyway. Articles aren't supposed to document every gig a comedian does, for charity or otherwise. AndyTheGrump (talk) 10:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

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