Misplaced Pages

Talk:Second Nagorno-Karabakh War

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Cinderella157 (talk | contribs) at 23:43, 26 July 2024 (Belligerents: r). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 23:43, 26 July 2024 by Cinderella157 (talk | contribs) (Belligerents: r)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Skip to table of contents
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Second Nagorno-Karabakh War article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23Auto-archiving period: 8.5 days 
Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to Armenia, Azerbaijan, or related conflicts, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
Peace dove with olive branch in its beakPlease stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
In the newsA news item involving Second Nagorno-Karabakh War was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the In the news section on 27 September 2020.
Misplaced Pages
Misplaced Pages
This  level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.
WikiProject iconArmenia High‑importance
WikiProject iconSecond Nagorno-Karabakh War is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to Armenia and Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the project page for further information.ArmeniaWikipedia:WikiProject ArmeniaTemplate:WikiProject ArmeniaArmenian
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconArtsakh High‑importance
WikiProject iconSecond Nagorno-Karabakh War is within the scope of WikiProject Artsakh, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to Artsakh and Artsakhians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the project page for further information.ArtsakhWikipedia:WikiProject ArtsakhTemplate:WikiProject ArtsakhArtsakh
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconAzerbaijan High‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Azerbaijan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Azerbaijan-related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AzerbaijanWikipedia:WikiProject AzerbaijanTemplate:WikiProject AzerbaijanAzerbaijanWikiProject icon
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconInternational relations Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconLimited recognition Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Limited recognition, a WikiProject dedicated to improving the coverage of entities with limited recognition on Misplaced Pages by contributing to articles relating to unrecognized states and separatist movements.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join our WikiProject by signing your name at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.Limited recognitionWikipedia:WikiProject Limited recognitionTemplate:WikiProject Limited recognitionLimited recognition
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconMilitary history: Russian & Soviet / Post-Cold War
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
B checklist
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
  1. Referencing and citation: criterion not met
  2. Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
  3. Structure: criterion met
  4. Grammar and style: criterion met
  5. Supporting materials: criterion met
Associated task forces:
Taskforce icon
Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
Taskforce icon
Post-Cold War task force

To-do list for Second Nagorno-Karabakh War: edit·history·watch·refresh· Updated 2024-01-01

  1. Split off 'International Reactions' to International reactions to the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh (see guidance at WP:SPLIT and WP:SS)
  2. Merge important information from 'Official statements' into 'Course of the conflict', deleting unnecessary detail (see guidance at WP:PRIMARY)
  3. Separate 'Course of the conflict' into chronological subsections (level 3 headers) for readability and narrative flow (see guidance at MOS:BODY)
  4. Reduce section sizes of 'Turkey and Syrian National Army' and 'Aftermath#Azerbaijan' (WP:TOOMUCH)
  5. Rewrite 'Suspected war crimes' (per WP:SUMMARY STYLE)
Section sizes
Section size for Second Nagorno-Karabakh War (46 sections)
Section name Byte
count
Section
total
(Top) 46,402 46,402
Naming 7,997 7,997
Background 654 15,646
Soviet era 5,478 5,478
First Nagorno-Karabakh War 4,548 4,548
Frozen conflict 4,966 4,966
Course of the war 78 45,984
Overview 18,606 18,606
Ceasefire agreement 6,151 6,151
Territorial changes 1,893 1,893
Non-military actions taken by Armenia and Azerbaijan 1,057 19,256
Armenia 8,068 8,068
Azerbaijan 10,131 10,131
Casualties 1,030 30,537
Civilians 5,417 5,417
Military 7,941 7,941
Infrastructure damage 6,556 6,556
Equipment losses 9,593 9,593
Suspected war crimes 3,049 3,049
Aftermath 16 26,879
Armenia 7,091 7,091
Azerbaijan 16,689 16,689
Transfer of territories and flight of Armenian population 1,268 1,268
Turkish-Russian peacekeeping 91 91
Post-ceasefire clashes 76 76
Canada's boycott of arms exports to Turkey 1,648 1,648
Analysis 16 29,694
Nationalist sentiment 2,605 2,605
Azerbaijani aims 2,457 2,457
Turkey and Russia 1,787 12,374
Turkey 4,889 4,889
Russia 5,698 5,698
Military tactics 5,028 12,242
Drone warfare 1,833 1,833
Targeting of pipelines 2,240 2,240
Use of propaganda 969 969
Cyberwarfare 2,172 2,172
Official statements 26 21,297
Armenia and Artsakh 6,786 6,786
Azerbaijan 14,485 14,485
Allegations of third-party involvement 329 329
International reactions 99 99
See also 387 387
Notes 24 24
References 30 30
External links 1,753 1,753
Total 230,107 230,107


Russian Arm supplies

Didnt Russia also supply Azerbaijan with weapons? NikolaosGeorgiosMichael (talk) 19:32, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

In general over the last 30 years, or directly related to this conflict/during it? --OuroborosCobra (talk) 20:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
To this conflict, the Second Karabakh War 2003:EA:4F25:F2BF:68ED:1DB7:D929:7231 (talk) 10:19, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
https://www.sipri.org/commentary/topical-backgrounder/2021/arms-transfers-conflict-zones-case-nagorno-karabakh 2003:EA:4F25:F2BF:68ED:1DB7:D929:7231 (talk) 10:21, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
https://jamestown.org/program/azerbaijan-is-drifting-away-from-russia-and-moscow-has-only-itself-to-blame/ 2003:EA:4F25:F2BF:68ED:1DB7:D929:7231 (talk) 10:25, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 January 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Having Syrian mercenaries is just ridiculous considering Azerbaijan as one of the most irreligious countries in the world and also having 3 times more population than the opponent country and many more military advances. As a citizen, I am extremely offended by this and I find it wrong to add this kind of info without having reliable source and proof. 151.71.255.147 (talk) 19:39, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. FYI the blue numbers inside the brackets e.g. are sources Cannolis (talk) 21:04, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Pakistan support

Isn't it true that Pakistan provided diplomatic support to Azerbaijan throughout the conflict?

Even in the Armenia-Pakistan relations article, it mentions this. In 2015, they went as far as to say the recognition of Armenia is contingent on the Armenians leaving the disputed zone. And they openly celebrated and praised the cease-fire when it happened. OperativePhase33 (talk) 04:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Dot-points under result parameter

Vanezi Astghik, per MOS:MIL, which gives voice to the template documentation for the result parameter, additional dot points are not supported. The documentation is quite specific in how it is to be filled. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm confused, where does it say that in the documentation? And if it's reliably sourced content, why can't we make an exception even if true? Vanezi (talk) 06:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
It is quite specific as to what is permitted under the result parameter. It does not includes dot-points. WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE tells us not to write the article in the infobox and that less is better. This infobox is excessively bloated and such "detail" contributes to this. The infobox is unsuited to prose or prose like statements. That is what the lead is for. Cinderella157 (talk) 09:51, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Articles like Croatian War of Independence have been promoted to good article with the bullet points. I don't question the GA criteria and if it was good enough for a GA article, it should be here too. Vanezi (talk) 08:12, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
It was listed as a GA in 2011. Things change. Cinderella157 (talk) 09:01, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Belligerents

Vanezi Astghik, the belligerents section is for state players or similar - not just anybody that wants to throw an iron in the fire. Just like the PPK, Syrian mercenaries and Armenian diaspora volunteers are not state players that would be listed as belligerents in the infobox - regardless of sources that say they were present. It is a miscategorisation. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:14, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@Cinderella157 I am not sure where you are quoting "state players or similar" from, but according to the military conflict infobox template: particular units, formations, or groups may be indicated if doing so improves reader understanding. So you were right to unlist Armenian diaspora volunteers because that refers to unrelated individual cases, not any kind of group. But the Syrian National Army is clearly its own group, and very relevant because its units were in the frontlines. Vanezi (talk) 18:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
The infobox listed Syrian mercenaries, with sources to support this description even though the link was piped to Syrian National Army. The sourcing does not appear to support this piping. Furthermore, it as alleged that they were recruited by Turkey. What I was quoting was from my edit summary. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:25, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
There are reliable sources confirming Syrian mercenaries from the Syrian National Army.
  • Although Azerbaijan and its ally Turkey deny the use of mercenaries, researchers have amassed a considerable amount of photographic evidence, drawn from videos and photographs the fighters have posted online, which tells a different story.
  • According to sources within the Syrian National Army (SNA), the umbrella term for a group of opposition militias backed by Turkey, around 1,500 Syrians have so far been deployed to the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region in the southern Caucasus ... Shortly after conflict erupted between Armenia and Azerbaijan, Turkey sought to mobilize the SNA, sometimes called Turkey’s proxy army ... The first fighters were transferred in late September to southern Turkey and then flown from Gaziantep to Ankara, before being transferred to Azerbaijan on Sept. 25.
The only error was the mercenaries were bullet pointed under Azerbaijan. From what these sources confirm, the mercenaries should instead be under Turkey, and the "alleged" comment should be removed. Vanezi (talk) 16:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Turkey can only be listed as "alleged by Armenia" per community consensus at this RFC: , and another one later on, which also decided on Syrian mercenaries: If you want to change that, start a new RFC to form a new community consensus. Grandmaster 13:18, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
These are mercenaries. Whether they had previous service with the Syrian National Army does not change their status as mercenaries. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
Categories: