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Talk:September 2024 Israeli attacks against Lebanon

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Wikivoice for Israeli claims

Please don't use wikivoice for Israeli claims that are not independently confirmed.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:45, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Article title

While the strikes did happen in both Israel and Lebanon, it appears the damage is totally asymmetric. All of the deaths appear to be in Lebanon. This looks less like cross-border fire and more like a large-scale attack by Israel.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:48, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't disagree, but it's also important to mention that the IDF is totally indiscriminate (ie openly targeting civilians) and their military censors hide a lot. So it's unclear just how much damage israel has incurred on the other end as they don't let anyone report on it. 99.237.230.117 (talk) 18:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
Please provide sources that say what you wrote above.VR (Please ping on reply) 20:02, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
No need, WP:ARBECR applies as this is within the Arab-Israeli conflict topic area, so the IP should just restrict themselves to edit requests which their previous message clearly isn't. Nil Einne (talk) 20:07, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah Casualties vs Civil Casualties

As of now, Hezbollah only published the identity of a single member. The vast majority of the killed are civils. In some attacks, entire families were killed. InfiniteValrath (talk) 21:04, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that it's higly unlikely that Hezbollah would report their true losses, and thereby admit how hard Israel hit them. It is way easier to present such losses as "civilian casualties". — Sundostund mppria 21:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
That may well be true but at the moment we have no way of knowing how many civilians vs. militants were killed and it is highly likely that given the current death toll of nearly 500, at least hundreds of civilians were killed and injured. Of course we are limited to the numbers and details published by reliable sources. Nythar (💬-🍀) 21:58, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
Yes, indeed. There is no denial that hundreds of civilians were killed and injured, but it would be ludicrous to accept the narrative of Hezbollah that they suffered only one casualty, while all the others are civilians. As you mentioned, only reliable sources can make those numbers more clearer, in days to come. — Sundostund mppria 22:42, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Problematic infobox

The infobox currently lists all deaths and injuries in Lebanon on the side of Hezbollah, which is problematic for obvious reasons (we don't know how many of those killed were civilians or militants). Nythar (💬-🍀) 21:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

If all the casualties were in Lebanon, maybe this infobox isn't even the best infobox to use. Template:Infobox military operation would be a better choice.VR (Please ping on reply) 23:14, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Add French FM reaction to the Reactions>International sectionInternational_section-20240924010500">

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Something like:

  •  France: France's FM, Jean-Noël Barrot, called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council, stating: "I’m thinking of the men and women in uniform in Lebanon and the French contingent there. I’m thinking of the Lebanese people as Israeli strikes have just killed hundreds of civilians, including dozens of children. These strikes conducted on both sides of the blue line, and in the region more broadly, must immediately end."

Bitspectator ⛩️ 01:05, 24 September 2024 (UTC)International_section"> International_section">

References

  1. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/09/23/world/gaza-israel-hamas-hezbollah

Flags

Please don't add flags to the reactions section. I can't believe we have to go over this on every "current event" article. See MOS:FLAGCRUFT. C F A 💬 01:18, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Israel's aims in the lede

@Galamore: I moved this paragraph into the Reactions section because its inclusion in the lede is not neutral. While it is fair to include an attacker's operational aims, the paragraph contained this, which has nothing to do with operational aims: Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu addressed the Lebanese people, stating, "Israel's war is not with you, it's with Hezbollah. For too long, Hezbollah has been using you as human shields." Please at least remove this sentence from the lede. Nythar (💬-🍀) 07:15, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I do not understand why we need to include Netanyahu's claim of human shields in the lede. It isn't backed by reliable sources, isn't related to his operational aims, and just forces an unnecessary POV into the lede. Nythar (💬-🍀) 07:25, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
The lead of the article on the Israel-Hamas war outlines Hamas's stated motives for its attack on Israel: "Hamas said its attack was in response to Israel's continued occupation, the blockade of Gaza, settlement expansion, disregard for international law, alleged threats to the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and the general plight of Palestinians." The description of stated aims can be found in many articles similar to this.
In any case, this is an article about a military operation launched by a country. It makes perfect sense to explain what a country aims to achieve in such an operation in the lead of an article describing it. ABHammad (talk) 07:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
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