Talk:List of antisemitic incidents in the United States

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Butterscotch Beluga (talk | contribs) at 23:44, 10 October 2024 (→StopAntisemitism: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 23:44, 10 October 2024 by Butterscotch Beluga (talk | contribs) (→StopAntisemitism: Reply)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This article is rated List-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Lists Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all list pages on Misplaced Pages. If you wish to help, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.

United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Judaism Low‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Jewish history Low‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Discrimination Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

On 28 August 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from List of antisemitic incidents in the United States to List of antisemitic and anti-Jewish incidents in the United States. The result of the discussion was not moved.

2023 Detroit synagogue leader

The media has unfortunately abdicated much of its responsibility and polarized anti-semitic discourse in the last few years. The notion that a rabbi killed in the aftermath of October 7th, when anti-semitic crimes have risen 400% this year, was not a hate crime, is a moral failing that is deeply injurious to Jewish peoples across the country. I suggest this ought to be added https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-charged-murder-death-detroit-synagogue-leader-rcna124908 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:3802:27F3:145E:B896:100:7D20 (talk) 18:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

2020 Kenosha synagogue vandalism

I've removed this section for now. Neither the JNS source nor a couple other sources I found after a quick search – Jewish Journal and JTA – explicitly call this an act of anti-Semitism. JJ quotes several tweets by advocacy groups that use that term, but don't call it that themselves. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 07:41, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC

Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Benevolent human (talk) 00:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

List becoming unwieldy?

If we include every incident of verbal abuse and vandalism, this list will be unending and also overshadow major incidents. I advise we stick to major incidents of violence (including planned terrorist attacks). Open to other proposals. Loksmythe (talk) 15:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

I have reservations about the proposal. I added the arson incident at Congregation Beth Israel in Austin, Texas almost a year after it occurred, and I was surprised it hadn't been added immediately. The perpetrator certainly hoped to burn down the sanctuary, and due to the extensive smoke damage, the congregation was prevented from using it. While this incident might still qualify under your proposed criteria, acts of vandalism directed at synagogues and Jewish institutions such as museums are hate crimes meant to instill fear among Jews everywhere. I am more worried about incidents not being reported. I'm also worried about who gets to decide. A.T.S. in Texas (talk) 16:36, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

@A.T.S. in Texas The Austin synagogue arson would assuredly qualify under the "major incidents" classification. It was meant to be violent, even if no one was hurt, and received widespread and sustained coverage, including in local and national RS, over the course of several years. I'm sure if there are disagreements about what qualifies for inclusion, this talk page would be a proper venue for reasonable discussion. Longhornsg (talk) 22:01, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree. Technically, every one of the hundreds of antisemitic incidents (ranging from verbal abuse to violence) with RS coverage (many of them), in addition to US-related incidents mentioned in Antisemitism during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war and the largely unsourced List of attacks on Jewish institutions in the United States would qualify for inclusion here. This could be thousands, most of which are relatively non-notable and don't receive sustained coverage.

Propose we rescope and rename this page to List of antisemitic attacks in the United States and merge in much of the content from List of attacks on Jewish institutions in the United States, to include only incidents that receive more than passing coverage and have a violent or notable aspect to them. Longhornsg (talk) 21:57, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

You need to add the violent Charlottesville, VA march where the white supremacists shouted "the Jews will not replace us"

You need to add the violent Charlottesville, VA march where the white supremacists shouted "the Jews will not replace us 173.166.164.113 (talk) 01:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Concerning incident "April 2024"

Apologies if this is improperly formatted or if I shouldn't comment on potentially restricted subjects, but the description states "A Jewish woman was beaten at the scene." sourced to WP:NATIONALREVIEW unattributed. Furthermore, the video linked in said source is of a man in a white shirt, as reports show in photos, videos, & articles. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 00:05, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I have replaced it with sources from The New York Times and Los Angeles Times. Steven1991 (talk) 13:09, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 28 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Bobby Cohn (talk) 01:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

List of antisemitic incidents in the United States → List of antisemitic and anti-Jewish incidents in the United States – Not all of the attacks listed here can be verified as antisemetic -- that is, targeting Jews or Jewish institutions because they are Jews. Some, like the January 2024 assault, are presumed to be antisemitic, but authorities have not confirmed such a motive. Other attacks like the 2018 attempted murder of 2 Jews outside a Los Angeles synagogue, targeted Jews but perpetrated by someone with mental illness. New title, while a little wordier, more accurately and comprehensively covers the scope of the items on this list. Longhornsg (talk) 00:34, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose status quo is more concise. Anti-Jewish is antisemitic, I don’t understand the argument there

Kowal2701 (talk) 13:13, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose, my understanding is that antisemitic is more or less equivalent to anti-Jewish.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:42, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
Oppose. Same difference. Any incident where the victim was coincidentally Jewish but their Jewishness wasn't relevant to the incident should be excluded in any case. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:42, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Preventing link-rot

As the majority of citations for incidents are citations to online news articles, there is a great chance of link rot, to prevent this every citation with a url should have an archive url collected from the Wayback Machine, so even if the article is removed/deleted readers can access a snapshot of the material. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 14:01, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Unreliable sourcing & BLP violations

@Steven1991 Your addition of Paul Kessler's death here is a massive issue for several reasons. You are citing deprecated sources (Daily Mail), and are breaching WP:BLP & WP:SYNTH by putting in wikivoice that Loay Alnaji was responsible for his death, something that hasn't been determined yet

You said that you'd be more carful with citations & WP:NPOV, but this is showing to be a consistent issue. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 16:01, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

OK, I will amend it. Steven1991 (talk) 16:03, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Sarah Lawrence College incident

Hi all, I removed the incident from the list, as I looked over the source again and couldn’t determine whether antisemitism was involved. Steven1991 (talk) 15:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

In-passage October 7 classification

Terming it an “attack” trivialises the nature of the events that happened on the day. What is the fact is that the events consist of a series of racially motivated massacres, with the targets overwhelmingly Jewish. Some scholars also use “October 7 massacre” to refer to the events.

The presence of conspiracy theories about Jews and calls for Jews’ mass murder in their 1988 charter (Article 7, Article 22 and Article 28) is obvious. Their slight revision in 2017 hasn’t effected a change in their perception of Jews either.

If we are not terming the Holocaust (worst genocide in history) “an attack”, why would it not be conscionable to term the October 7 events as “October 7 massacre” ? Steven1991 (talk) 16:10, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

As determined with the specific article, RS support the labelling of the multitude of events that occured on October 7 collectively as an attack, as I detailed in edit summaries, "massacre" ignores the non-massacre crimes and atrocities committed on the day. There is also, when specifically quoting sources in this article, we use their exact phrasing, we do not rewrite them, as you did with some of the quotes. Whatever opinions you have, or theorising you engage in with the supposed or potential reasoning and thoughts of Hamas are irrelevant, we go off of what RS say. Finally, different things are different would apply firstly, and secondly the analogy is just inappropriate, at a basic level the Holocaust would not be called "an attack" due to it being a systemic process that involved multiple individual attacks, massacres, etc. as per the reasoning of RS. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 12:54, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

It was an attack and that's the matter of it, Hamas were open about their aims to kidnap civilians and trade them for Palestinians help captive by Israel. They also massacred a lot of innocent people and soldiers at the same time as @Cdjp1 mentions there were too many different factors to list it simply as a "massacre" since that's an immense simplification.

I'm going to add your comment (as well as your edits in the page re-adding unsourced entires) show a significant amount of Bias here which I believe is in violation of NPOV.

"Their slight revision in 2017 hasn’t effected a change in their perception of Jews either." racist characterisation with no evidence and still referring to a charter that is older than 80% of the population of Gaza.

"Holocaust (worst genocide in history)" there is no such thing as the "worst genocide in history" it may be the most prominent/well-known and one of the most damaging in terms of humans killed but saying it's "the worst" really is saying the suffering and death inflicted on other groups throughout history isn't as bad even if the death toll is higher just cause. Galdrack (talk) 10:07, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

There have been no POV issues for recording what happened to or targeted any members of the Jewish community. It is also not “racist” to point out the Hamas are still antisemitic as evidenced by their targeting of majority Jewish civilians on that day. Steven1991 (talk) 14:10, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

StopAntisemitism

Currently this article cites StopAntisemitism for several incidents on this list & describes it as a civil rights group. In actuality however, they are an advocacy group, self-described as "a grassroots watchdog organization". I do not believe they are a reputable enough organization to be cited for this subject & may potentially risks this article's credibility, doubly so with their history of doxing & participation in harassment campaigns.

I'm willing to remove them from the article myself, but wanted to seek other's opinions on the matter first. I'm also willing to take the matter to WP:RSN if deemed necessary. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:58, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Notifying @Cdjp1, @Steven1991, & @Galdrack as recent participants on this talk page. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 22:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

1.) I’d appreciate if a definition can be given for “reputable” in this context

2.) The hate crimes reported by the group are mostly supplemented with reliable news sources, some found within the reports on the group’s website itself, which do not compromise the authenticity to any extent, unless you can prove that the crimes have never occurred

3.) Despite the group’s presentation manner of some reported crimes being debatable, I find it difficult understanding what is meant by “doxxing” or “harassment”, when many of those exposed by the group to have committed hate crimes did so in public spaces. The only exception is if it involves anything private being publicised in contravention of U.S. federal laws

4.) Further to (3.), most of those hate crimes are reported by verifiable sources simultaneously. Are those sources, some of which are established media outlets, also engaging in “doxxing” or “harassment” ? It is understandable that there are real-life consequences for committing hate crimes. One cannot claim “doxxing” or “harassment” when they face repercussions for illegal actions, which are matters of public interest

5.) I object to such an exclusion as the group’s website does not appear to have been classified as an unreliable source in any respect on Misplaced Pages Steven1991 (talk) 22:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I see no reason to cite an advocacy group for any incident as, if it's notable enough to be listed here, news organizations &/or civil rights groups will have already covered it, so we don't need to add StopAntisemitism to help corroborate it.

Almost their entire twitter page consists of them publishing individual's private information, including their real names, locations, & their place of work, to a large number of followers as a response to perceived antisemitism (regardless of if the accusation is true or not). Those are definitely acts of doxing & harassment, a behavior unbecoming of reputable sources & of which you wouldn't see from any news or civil rights group. Most of the incidents they report there did not occur in public spaces & would never be considered hate crimes (I'm not saying any of those types of incidents are cited here, but their attitude towards such cases reflects poorly on them as a source). Their twitter account's consistent willingness to exaggerate incidents does not help their credibility either.

Their lack of classification regarding their reliability is why I offered to bring this to WP:RSN. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 23:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Categories: