Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jclemens (talk | contribs) at 05:12, 27 November 2024 (→2024 Northeastern United States wildfires: r). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

26 November 2024

Anti-Russian violence in Chechnya (1991–1994)

Anti-Russian violence in Chechnya (1991–1994) (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

No consensus to delete, there were more editors opposing the deletion and even those who were on the fence regarding the current article were against WP:TNT. Multiple sources were provided that discuss this in great detail. The article was being improved with subpar sources being removed and reliable sources being added. Alaexis_¿question? 21:50, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse. Most of the Keep (or "Oppose") !votes were little more than disagreement with the nom. Not violating WP:FRINGE or NPOV are not, by themselves, a valid reason to keep an article, if sourcing does not support it. Most Delete views, on the other hand, were skillfully argued, and weren't refuted by the Keeps. Citing sources that merely quote Russian propaganda doesn't help with WP:RS. Once you discard the non-P&G-based !votes, you're left with a rough consensus to delete, which asilvering carefully explained in their closing rationale. Owen× ☎ 22:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm sorry, but I can't agree that the Delete votes were skillfully argued. They did not refute the main argument for keeping the article which was that are several RS that discuss this topic in detail. These are books published in the US and Europe by distinguished historians (Carlotta Gall, Thomas de Waal, Jim Hughes (academic), John B. Dunlop). If Misplaced Pages editors don't agree with them it doesn't make them unreliable. Alaexis_¿question? 22:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  Basically, it's the opposing editors who had policy based arguments (sources proving that the topic satisfies WP:GNG). Alaexis_¿question? 22:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse - it is not a vote, but in any case, when you count the nom, there were not more opposes. As for the arguments - it looks like asilvering evaluated those correctly and made good points in the close rationale. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 22:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

  The close rationale simply said that the delete position has been significantly more persuasively argued. He did not engage with the arguments of those who opposed the deletion. Alaexis_¿question? 22:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment not understanding why this wasn't merged to First Chechen War as suggested. I get this is a contentious topic, so it's all the more worthwhile to channel POV forks, if indeed this is one, into better curated NPOV articles. Jclemens (talk) 22:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Endorse there was general agreement this should be deleted, and the refutation of the sources as unreliable was convincing. Will not be following this page, so no need to reply to me. SportingFlyer T·C 22:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

2024 Northeastern United States wildfires

2024 Northeastern United States wildfires (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (restore)

There weren’t a lot of outside contributions, but there were some, so WP:G5 was already sketchy. Plus, it was on a notable topic that leaves a bit of a gaping hole in Misplaced Pages if deleted. Thus, the speedy deletion should be overturned. 2600:4808:290:1040:B910:2DB:56CA:3C53 (talk) 20:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Any particular reason the deleting admin @Explicit: was not notified of this deletion review? The appellant is required to notify the deleting admin before starting a deletion review and, optionally, seek clarification on their talk page. Frank Anchor 21:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• I will neither endorse nor refute the G5 as I can not access the deleted page's history, though I am sure Explicit did their homework before deleting the page (I am not requesting a temp undeletion). Either way Endorse per Cryptic’s analysis of the page’s history. No significant contributions by anyone except the blocked user. However, recreation is allowed by any user in good standing since the deletion is due to the user who created it, and not due to its content. Frank Anchor 21:31, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Overturn G5. The article was indeed created by a now-banned sock - in draftspace. It was duly submitted to AfC the next day, accepted and moved to mainspace by Wikishovel - an experienced new page reviewer. Regardless of its author, once it passed AfC by an uninvolved reviewer in good standing, it no longer qualifies for G5. The author continued working on the article, now in mainspace, for another ten days before they were banned, at which point Wizzito incorrectly tagged it with G5, and Explicit hastily deleted it. TROUT the appellant for not giving Explicit a chance to correct his mistake before bringing this here. I see no point in recreating the article from scratch, seeing as we already have a version good enough to pass AfC. Owen× ☎ 21:55, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

OwenX, where is the policy that says drafts moved to mainspace in good faith by an uninvolved editor can't be deleted G5? Wikishovel (talk) 22:00, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Not OwenX, but I'd say that have no substantial edits by others would not be met by something moved to mainspace by a different editor. That is, the act of mainspacing a draft should count as a substantial edit for G5 purposes. And I'd agree with that. Overturn G5. Jclemens (talk) 22:33, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

G5 is not applicable as long as the sockpuppet successfully deceives the community into accepting their drafts? That's... a take. Andrew5 is not just blocked, but banned. WP:BMB applies to their sockpuppet contributions. ✗plicit 00:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

It's certainly not a take I've heard of before, and it doesn't make any sense to me at all. Endorse G5 - an AfC accept isn't a "substantial edit". -- asilvering (talk) 00:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Draft space is no different than anywhere else. If a sockpuppet successfully deceives the community into making substantial edits to a page created in mainspace, it's G5 immune as well. Nothing special about the AfC process here, and no particular reason to not take this through a full deletion discussion; arguing that G5 doesn't apply doesn't mean the article needs to stay, just that it shouldn't be summarily deleted if at least one good faith editor thought it meritorious enough to mainspace it from draft. If deceived, that editor can certainly say so, and should, at the ensuing deletion discussion. Jclemens (talk) 05:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• I cannot tell if there were other edits to this article, but I strongly disagree that an article accepted at AfC would be immune from a G5 just on the basis that it was accepted. As an AfC reviewer I do not think accepting is a "substantial edit" but is more confirmation a draft is ready for mainspace. It's a click of a button, not an edit. Furthermore there is not necessarily any way of knowing if the creator was banned when you accept. Only overturn if other users have worked on this one. SportingFlyer T·C 22:37, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Whichever decision we make here we should definitely codify it at Misplaced Pages:Criteria for speedy deletion itself - I can see the argument behind both sides here and it would be nice to have a consistent consensus to fall back on. Personally I would consider AfC acceptances substantive in most situations, but endorse this deletion nevertheless since Wikishovel's comment above makes it clear that they don't think their own edit counts as substantive which is sufficient to push the deletion over the line into acceptable territory. I'm also highly skeptical of the nominator here, who has no other edits and is probably another Andrew5 sock. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:03, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• There were no significant edits to the deleted page other than by User:Coster85, and DRVs of G5s by ips and new users should be speedy rejected on principle anyway. Endorse. —Cryptic 01:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

List of films released by Anchor Bay Entertainment

List of films released by Anchor Bay Entertainment (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Cannot see why this should be closed as no consensus. Only one editor opposed the delete with three in support of deletion. Okay, it was relisted with a request for further information, which was never given. However WP:NOTCATALOG is policy, and as this is article is clearly a catalog of releases for DVD reissues (established by precedent at a whole host of other deletion discussions detailed at the linked discussion), something is wrong if we allow the one oppose citing the guideline WP:NLIST to trump policy. --woodensuperman 08:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Endorse. I see a valid nomination, one P&G-based Keep !vote, and two Delete votes that have nothing to do with policy or guidelines, and were correctly WP:DISCARDed by the closer. A no-consensus close was the correct outcome. Owen× ☎ 11:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
• Endorse only the nom and the lone keep !vote were supported by policies and guidelines. The two delete !votes were along the lines of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Even of the keep !vote is (incorrectly) discarded because it only cites a guideline, it would leave just the single nom statement, which is not a WP:QUORUM to delete (as quorum refers to valid !votes, not just people showing up). I would not oppose a third relist or an immediate renomination, due to the lack of attendance and the question posted by asilvering in the second relist, which went unanswered. Frank Anchor 15:18, 26 November 2024
• Endorse I don't think there was enough of a consensus WP:NOTCATALOG applied to get this deleted. Typically if something is NOT it doesn't matter if it otherwise meets our guidelines, so I think both the final relist rationale and the admin's comment about that relist are incorrect, but that doesn't change the overall result. SportingFlyer T·C 22:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC)