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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Locke Cole (talk | contribs) at 15:01, 10 December 2024 (→Draft:Luigi Mangione: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Draft:Luigi Mangione

Draft:Luigi Mangione (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)​

This is a serious WP:BLPCRIME vio, even for a draft. POIs are innocent until proven guilty. E_F 01:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Immediate delete per above. Departure– (talk) 01:19, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Okay, so I suppose it isn't a good fit for CSD but I think it should be. For all we know we've started a draft about an innocent man that will be acquitted and doesn't want any exposure - not the best practice when we know damn well he isn't notable until proven guilty in a court of law, which he may not be. Departure– (talk) 01:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Imo, this should be speedied, but since BLPCRIME doesn't have a specific tag, I brought it here instead. E_F 01:22, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Delete per above. ~Darth Stabro 01:20, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I have changed the wording to make it suspected. Personisinsterest (talk) 01:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It's still a severe violation of BLPCRIME, it reads as if "Luigi Mangione is a man who probably killed Brian Thompson", no matter how it's worded. E_F 01:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Neutral wording doesn't fix the core problem. Per WP:SUSPECT:

For individuals who are not public figures—that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures—editors must seriously consider not including material—in any article—that suggests the person has committed or is accused of having committed a crime, unless a conviction has been secured for that crime.

This article is about someone who 48 hours ago was nobody and who in 48 hours may once again be nobody - a private citizen only put to public figuredom under the accusation of being a murderer. If he ends up being our guy, it should probably be merged into Killing of Brian Thompson anyway. Departure– (talk) 01:26, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per EF5 and Departure. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 01:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete, speedy if possible per BLP. (CC) Tbhotch 01:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I've blanked the draft for now. Everything was a BLP violation, so I suppose now if someone else wants to A3 this go ahead. All sources establish notability by connecting him with a crime he hasn't even been convicted of. Departure– (talk) 03:13, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

None of what you've said is correct or relevant. —Alalch E. 09:39, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

SNOW delete, also noting that someone un-blanked the draft. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 07:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. There are no problems with this draft. The individual has been charged. Unlikely that an article on the perpetrator will be needed, but no reason to delete.—Alalch E. 09:38, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
• Snow keep, WP:BLPCRIME isn't relevant here whatsoever, and this individual is widely covered in numerous RS. WP:BLP1E may prove to be relevant in so far as an individual biography is concerned, but there are many articles on individual killers who only became notable for the murder they committed. —Locke Cole • t • c 14:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

many articles on individual killers who only became notable for the murder they committed We have zero idea if he actually committed the crime, though. "Charged" and "convicted" are completely different, and this draft is just a bunch of "alleged" and "suspected". E_F 14:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Hence why it's a draft? Do you have a WP:PAG-based reason to delete this draft or is it just WP:IDONTLIKEIT? —Locke Cole • t • c 14:43, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I gave you one, WP:BLPCRIME. Per this guideline: A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations, arrests and charges do not amount to a conviction. For individuals who are not public figures—that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures—editors must seriously consider not including material—in any article—that suggests the person has committed or is accused of having committed a crime, unless a conviction has been secured for that crime. He has not been convicted yet, and this entire draft reads as if he is accused of this, hence the "Accusations, investigations, arrests and charges do not amount to a conviction". Great job assuming bad faith, though. E_F 14:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

WP:BLPCRIME is not relevant here, the shooter achieved notoriety before his identity was revealed and was already a "public figure" from all the public reaction. He is receiving even more reliably sourced coverage after he was arrested and charged to further cement his public figure status. —Locke Cole • t • c 15:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)