Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Luigi Mangione

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Locke Cole (talk | contribs) at 12:43, 17 December 2024 (→Luigi Mangione: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 12:43, 17 December 2024 by Locke Cole (talk | contribs) (→Luigi Mangione: Reply)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Luigi Mangione

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Delete per nom. E_F 20:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Delete. This article is wholly unnecessary, and it has duplicate scope with Killing of Brian Thompson#Suspect. guninvalid (talk) 20:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
~~As with the MfD, this is probably going to WP:SNOWBALL Delete. Leave it as redirect, if even that.~~ guninvalid (talk) 20:59, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep of course, WP:BLP1E clearly states as the third requirement for omitting someone on that basis 3. The event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented. and then proceeds to provide examples. We have significant reliable sources, the content in the article is verifiable and the subject of the article, even in these early days, receives consistent ongoing coverage. Little reason to believe this article won't simply continue to expand. —Locke Cole • t • c 20:59, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Delete and keep working on the Killing of Brian Thompson article. Reason 1 According to WP:PERPETRATOR, a separate article of someone only known in connection with a crime or trial should not normally be a separate article but may be created "only if this is necessitated by considerations of article size." Killing of Brian Thompson currently is 4,107 words, whereas article split criteria is >8,000 words for "May need to be divided or split" per WP:SIZERULE.

Reason 2: WP:PERPETRATOR also does say "Editors must give serious consideration to not creating an article on an alleged perpetrator when no conviction is yet secured." I do think the subject meets contemporaneous notability, but based on the article size criteria not being met and there being no conviction yet, I do not think there should be an article on this topic yet.

Reason 3: I am also not sure if the historical significance criteria in WP:PERP has been met yet as “Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role.” All the reporting on the subject is currently contemporaneous. Maybe the Killing of Brian Thompson article scope could be expanded, or are we not supposed to be putting suspect biographical info there? Wafflefrites (talk) 21:34, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Keep very clearly notable with the amount of media coverage and large online fanbase- if this were merged into Killing of Brian Thompson then the latter would rapidly become a WP:COAT article. Chessrat 23:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and United States of America. Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:47, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Delete. WP:BLP1E Andre🚐 23:52, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Redirect and protect. Misplaced Pages's longstanding consensus is not to have a standalone article on a person accused of a crime who has not yet been found guilty. For now, we have not seen either condition met for a standalone article on a perpetrator per WP:CRIM: The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities; or The motivation for the crime or the execution of the crime is unusual—or has otherwise been considered noteworthy—such that it is a well-documented historic event. Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role. Thompson was not a "renowned national or international figure" prior to his killing, and we are not yet at the point of weighing the "historic significance" of the event. Furthermore, creating this page treads on WP:CRIM's guidance that Editors must give serious consideration to not creating an article on an alleged perpetrator when no conviction is yet secured. If/when Mangione is found guilty, this page can come right back. For now, the redirect to Killing of Brian Thompson#Suspect should be restored and protected to enforce this consensus pending a verdict. Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:02, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Delete with no prejudice against recreating at a later date if Killing of Brian Thompson gets too long or something changes to justify a separate article. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 01:36, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep - absolute given. notable given the coverage around him. More coverage is focused on him than the target. 97.115.189.88 (talk) 02:01, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep. Guy is famous enough by now. Then again, Dclemens1971 makes a valid point. The thing is that it is only sometimes that we get really picky about our guidelines and it's especially so in the case of crime/criminal, and I don't really see the point of that pickiness. Drmies (talk) 02:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
I get the impulse to go WP:IAR here, but the redirect both meets informational needs and upholds the consensus guidelines. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

My main reason is because of WP:BLPCT. BLPs are contentious topics per arbitration enforcement committee. With contentious topics, you must “comply with all applicable policies and guidelines”. Having come from over a year of editing in another CT area on Misplaced Pages, I definitely know that Ignore All Rules does not apply to contentious topics. Wafflefrites (talk) 02:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep per above.-🐦DrWho42 👻 02:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
delete as per Dclemens1971. There is no need yet for an article about the suspect. This is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. We don't have to add every detail about him that the media reports. The Killing of Brian Thompson limits narrowly what we can say about the suspect, because we are only including things related to the crime and his alleged involvement. And that's how it should be. Kingturtle = (talk) 02:49, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep as per Chessrat's reasoning. Kyleroo (talk) 03:54, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Keep as per Locke_Cole's response above. The article is already long as it is. It's inevitable that more information will continue to flow in especially in the coming weeks. Kokaynegeesus (talk) 04:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: California, Hawaii, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:15, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Keep as per Chessrat's reasoning. ]
Keep He is clearly notable and is receiving plenty of media coverage. Here's a couple of articles that are primarily focused on him and not the killing There's currently content in the Killing of Brian Thompson article (i.e. the last paragraph of the #Possible motives and views section) regarding his views/political views, etc. that are more appropriate for a biography than for the event article. Some1 (talk) 04:48, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. Just because newspapers are reporting things does not mean they are encyclopedic. Kingturtle = (talk) 12:18, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
We’re in luck, in this case what they’re reporting is encyclopedic. —Locke Cole • t • c 12:43, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep, per WP:CRIME articles on perpetrators are deemed notable if motivation for the crime is unusual - Mangione has had extensive media coverage about his motives allegedly being a revenge killing. The execution of the crime has also been covered as being meticulously planned. I don't think WP:BLP1E applies to this page as the event is significant and the individual's role is substantial - there seems to be more coverage on him than the actual victim. jolielover♥talk 05:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Redirect per Dclemons. Killing of Brian Thompson#Suspect already has all the content, because it is all relevant to the event. The sources above are still within the sphere of the killing and its background and response. A WP:DUPLICATE WP:REDUNDANT page or is not warranted. Reywas92 05:32, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep - that is what i am leaning toward.--In 2011, this killer had an article (and is still in isolation, even though a model prisoner). Wiki's guidelines have not changed significantly since then, regarding suspects. The killer had an article two days after the crime - and a year before the first conviction. 2001:2020:32F:E6A2:E8A1:CBF8:BC0:B10E (talk) 05:56, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep: Responsibly written and very well sourced. The subject is receiving new reliable coverage from quality sources every day. There is intense interest, and this responsibly written article is a strong example of the excellence of Misplaced Pages in providing reliable and current information. SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
The article should be allowed to continue, collecting the best sources as they arrive. Should coverage not continue long term, only then should it possibly be redirected as a flash in the pan lacking ongoing interest. Given the current ongoing coverage, it is not reasonable to assume that there will not be long term interest. SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:11, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Merge and Redirect to Killing of Brian Thompson#Suspect. A person who is accused of a crime is innocent until proven guilty. Misplaced Pages should not have a separate article about a suspect who is only notable for the crime he is accused of, before conviction. see WP:CRIME in addition to WP:SUSPECT. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 07:26, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Comment: Fixed subsection indicator, which appears to have been signed by Comfr—that is, by writing four tildes. Kyleroo (talk) 10:20, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Keep: Obviously very notable.CallumPaxton (talk) 10:32, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

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