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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) at 18:50, 24 December 2024 (Archiving 1 discussion(s) from Talk:Ariana Grande) (bot). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This is an archive of past discussions about Ariana Grande. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Spotify metrics in lead

Per WP:BADCHART, her statistics being the most streamed person on Spotify etc cannot be in the lead as it goes against Misplaced Pages's content guidelines that charts pertaining to one retailer/music provider should not be used. Ergo, this is the same reason why iTunes or Amazon Music charts are not used in Misplaced Pages articles. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 14:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

The 98 billion info should still be re-added. It's important, as it as its describes her as the most streamed artist in general, and there is no mention of Spotify or other provider in it. Mirrored7 (talk) 18:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Ben0006 Please re-add the 98 billion data. Thanks. Mirrored7 (talk) 19:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Upon reviewing WP:BADCHART, PHShanghai's edit was indeed consistent with that guideline (BADCHART and WP:CHART apply to prose as well as discography charts). Unless there is a compelling reason (and consensus) to bypass a Misplaced Pages content guideline (and I don't see either here), this shouldn't be readded. Aoi (青い) (talk) 19:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

In what way goes this sentence: "With over 98 billion streams globally, she is the most-streamed female act as of 2021", aginst the guideline? It's described without naming any provider like Amazon/Spotify specifically. Isn't it the reason why it was removed in the first place? @Aoi Mirrored7 (talk) 20:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the guideline's intention is that a single retailer chart is ok to use, just as long as you don't say which chart. That would be even worse. I think the problem is not with including a count of Spotify streams, but in the use of a Spotify chart that ranks that count against others. That's a fair point. While Spotify is a major player in streaming, it is only one platform. Its counts are not necessarily representative of streaming activity across the entire internet. Which is a bias the guideline is about avoiding. I assume the 98 billion figure is across all platforms? Where does it come from, is it sourced?--Escape Orbit 21:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, those numbers are in general. It's sourced by two reliable sources. I would agree to remove the Spotify numbers, they are still in her Achievements section anyway. However, her having 98 billion streams across all streaming platforms, is a rare achievement and one of her biggest accomplishments, which should stay in the lead. Especially as it not says Spotify or any other platform specifically. @Escape Orbit Mirrored7 (talk) 22:11, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I think I misunderstood Mirrored's proposal. It looks like the 98 billion figure is sourced in the article body to this article, which reads in part, By age 28, she released six albums which have all gone platinum and has surpassed 98 billion streams globally – she's Spotify’s most streamed female artist of the past decade – while rapidly becoming one of the biggest pop stars of our generation with her powerhouse vocals and unmatched presence both on stage and with her fans. It's not clear whether the 98 billion streams is a Spotify-only figure, but Spotify is mentioned in the same sentence.

The article also doesn't say anything about being "the most streamed female act ." That's from a second source, this article, which says Grande recently surpassed 90 billion streams consumed worldwide, the most ever by a female artist.

The way the sentence is proposed to be written, it reads like WP:SYNTH since there's no source that directly references both the 98 billion streams and the "most-streamed female act" part. Given the Synth issue and the fact that the two sources cite different figures, I would propose simply leaving out the figure altogether and just say that, as of 2021, she was the most-streamed female artist worldwide. Aoi (青い) (talk) 22:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

First source was from April 2021, which stated that she recently surpassed 90 billion consumed streams, the most by ANY female artist. The second was from months later, November 2021, stating 98 billion. I would trust the later more, as it's the most recent. She only recently surpassed 50 billion streams on Spotify, so I doubt this comes from the platform only, especially in 2021. Those numbers are mostly from Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube.

Just re-add the senetence with the 98 billion data as it was. There's nothing wrong with that, it's all sourced and doesn't go against guidelines. Mirrored7 (talk) 22:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Unless you provide a source that explicitly states: "Grande has surpassed 98 billion streams across multiple streaming platforms including Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube", I don't see why the data should be re-added to the lead when there's not enough sources to support it.

Furthermore, why is this information lead-worthy and not on Ariana Grande singles discography or the Achievements section instead? What does her high amount of streams contribute to the conversation regarding her commercial success; which we can use other metrics for instead, like her amount of Billboard Hot 100 number ones? Why does the content need to be included? PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 08:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Why you need a source that explicitly states it. It's obvious why what is meant by that. Grande has been very successful in streaming, why not mention it in the lead? There are two major sources of the 98 billion streams info. So we should ignore her streaming accomplishments all together, just because you're not satisfied with it? Mirrored7 (talk) 09:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Because every text in every Misplaced Pages article requires a clear and reliable source, per WP:RS. Using two vague sources to conclude something is WP:SYNT. I didn't say her streaming accomplishments should be ignored; I said that her streaming accomplishments should be sourced properly according to the guidelines. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 11:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

They are sourced properly. It depends, on what mean with "properly". For me, the source has been very clear. And since the three years the source has been up, no one has ever complained about it either. Mirrored7 (talk) 13:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I look up the sources again. It 98 billion is the most recent reported number. "The most by any female artist", which makes her the most streamed female artist, AT LEAST for that time, that's why, "as of 2021". Since then, there has been no higher figure reported for any other female artist. It has no provider listed, it has TWO reliable sources. Mirrored7 (talk) 20:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Is it okay, to at least re-add "With over 98 billion streams globally, she is the most-streamed female act as of 2021" on the lead again. I don't think it's okay to ignore her streaming success in the lead, especially when she is primarily known for that. It has its sources and doesn't mention Spotify or other streaming platforms specifically. Mirrored7 (talk) 08:10, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@PHShanghai @Escape Orbit @Aoi

Can you take part on the discussion again?

60 % of Grande's success has been in streaming. I don't think, it's right to ignore it all in the lead. I would be for it, to at least re-add the 98 billion streams part again, as it has no provider like Spotify or Apple Music linked to it. I also would be open to rephrase it differently. Mirrored7 (talk) 18:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I find the 98 billion streams part to have weak sourcing and overall just reads WP:PUFF. (Just because it is verifiable does not mean it needs to be included). Unless there is a broad, strong consensus that she is VERY NOTABLE for having very strong streaming numbers, it should not be readded. There are other artists like Drake who have amazing streaming records, but the numbers aren't mentioned in the lead. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 15:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Image

@19Arham:, the new picture that you changed to might potentially be copyvio, as there is no indication that "Our Movie Guide" was the one who actually filmed/interviewed Ariana at the Wicked premiere, and the description says "All materials provided by EPK.TV". PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 14:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thank you for the clarification. 19Arham (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)