Talk:Killing of Brian Thompson

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Editors have formed the following consensus:

To include the name of the suspect in the article.
To keep the CCTV footage in the article.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

December 8 to 14, 2024

Removal of the images of the charges indictment documents

I am removing them from the article. They can be listed in External links. They can be summarized in the article. Not sure why they are being shown as images in the article itself.

By summarizing the documents, we ensures the article remains accessible to a wider audience. Also, we ensure the relevant information is integrated into the narrative.

There is no need to put the into the article as images. Kingturtle = (talk) 18:33, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

I disagree. They allow the reader to directly read the indictment should they so choose. This provides our readers with the ability to directly access the documents that the section if referencing, and thus understand it in context. By doing so, the readers' understanding is expanded, and thus they add encyclopedic value. There is nothing preventing us from integrating the necessary detail into the article itself, Misplaced Pages is WP:NOTPAPER so there is no reasonable size concerns (as reading the original indictment document is entirely optional). I have reverted your change, pending the outcome of the WP:BRD cycle. Melmann 21:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree with @Melmann as I do believe the indictment file presents the Government's view on the Killing of Brian Thompson and ensures Neutral Point of View. Plus since this article is about a criminal act (The two facts of Murder is a criminal act and the suspect currently indicted for the killing of Brian Thompson is innocent until proven guilty are not mutually exclusive) the legal indictment detailing the standing for the charges against the suspect is relevant and encyclopedic if that makes sense but I see where you're coming from @Kingturtle! Sincerely, Middle Mac CJM (talk) 02:35, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

File:Luigi Mangione Mugshot.jpg

Is it too much that ENWP doesn't use images stolen from the internet in it's articles? Not sure why everyone seems so apathethic about this--Trade (talk) 01:01, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Reread what you've written and ask yourself: will other editors be able to deduce what you're talking about? Einsof (talk) 06:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

You mean pleading the community to stop uploading copyvio to Commons just for the sake of having a better photo of him? Trade (talk) 01:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

I think I'm understanding that you believe that this image should not be used because it's taken from the internet. This image is his mugshot. It was taken by the Pennsylvania local government and is available for public use, with or without explicit permission. guninvalid (talk) 07:24, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

It's been nominated for deletion for copyright reason. Hzh (talk) 00:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Is that for sourcing reasons or becuase of the actual mugshot itself? (PS. this is not supposed to be passive agressive and I don't know how to reword it I am simply curious) :) Middle Mac CJM (talk) 02:37, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Works of PA are subject to copyright restrictions. Kingturtle = (talk) 02:54, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Issue is with with Pennsylvania where the mugshot was taken. Can be uploaded here under fair use, but probably not in the Commons where they have stricter criteria. Hzh (talk) 13:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Ahhh that makes sense. Thank You! Middle Mac CJM (talk) 03:10, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Appareantly backing up the claim of public use up with any evidence isnt required either Trade (talk) 01:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

CloudResearch poll

KTVK (Arizona Family) reported on a CloudResearch poll. KTVK is reliable, but I don't know what to say of the poll. I can't seem to find the poll itself anywhere, and the article doesn't link to it. This is also the only source to report on it. The poll was conducted "Engage AI". I don't know if that could even be considered on here. Personisinsterest (talk) 15:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

we could attribute it. seems fair, if KTVK is talking about it. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 15:58, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Alright Personisinsterest (talk) 16:03, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

That doesn't work. KTVK, a reliable source, stated that this poll occurred in their own voice. Attributing a statement of fact from a reliable source is not needed. That's not different from any other statement of fact in our article sourced to a reliable secondary source—for them we also do not attribute. —Alalch E. 11:28, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Engage is described on the CloudResearch official website: https://www.cloudresearch.com/products/engage/ – Engage turns surveys into dynamic, engaging conversations by leveraging advanced generative AI. The people are real whereas the survey, instead of a questionnaire, is a chatbot conversation. —Alalch E. 11:36, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

change delay deny depose to deny defend depose 2600:6C58:6500:62A:1D17:BAF6:F6C7:4D28 (talk) 12:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Not done: There have been varying reports on the words found on the cartridges. Police clarified that "defend" was not one of the words after some confusion.--♦IanMacM♦ 12:58, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Misinformation

It think we need to make it clear, once and for all, that no one has any idea how often health insurers deny private claims, and that most data available comes from public plans, like Medicare Advantage, which in all likelihood inflate the denial rate. In the background section the article states: "UnitedHealthcare has been widely criticized for its handling of claims. The rate at which post-acute care claims were denied more than doubled between 2020 and 2022." -but when you look at the source, it's clear they got this data from a government report about people on Medicare Advantage. Some context to consider when you edit this stuff is that overtreatment on public plans happens much more frequently, with some estimates indicating as much as 40% of medical treatment on public plans could be considered unnecessary. You are not going to find denial rates on private plans this high because a) overutilization is much less of an issue; and b) the people being covered are younger and more healthier than Medicare recipients. The line should be edited to reflect the actual source, like where they got that rate from.

I would also question how much of this background section is actually "background" pertaining to this particular case. Polling consistently shows that support for the killer is the strongest among age groups that have minimal contact with the healthcare sector, like the 18 -29 cohort. To imply that this social media phenomenon is being driven by people getting Medicare claims denied is just silly. The section also talks about people protesting Optum's PBM business, but Thompson was the CEO of UnitedHealthcare -both owned by UnitedHealth Group, but separate subsidiaries. The killer had no personal connections to this company, and his own notebook states that he only decided to hit insurance back in August of this year (I presume this means he was contemplating other industries). I suspect that as these trials proceed and prosecutors give jurors a reality check, reliable sources will more accurately reflect the context of this case. Jonathan f1 (talk) 16:25, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

this is WP:FORUMing to rant about medicare overtreatment and that youth support of luigi mangione is driving social media. please include an actionable, specific edit request. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 17:16, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

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