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Administrators' newsletter – December 2024
News and updates for administrators from the past month (November 2024).
Administrator changes
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Guideline and policy news
- Following an RFC, the policy on restoration of adminship has been updated. All former administrators may now only regain the tools following a request at the Misplaced Pages:Bureaucrats' noticeboard within 5 years of their most recent admin action. Previously this applied only to administrators deysopped for inactivity.
- Following a request for comment, a new speedy deletion criterion, T5, has been enacted. This applies to template subpages that are no longer used.
Technical news
- Technical volunteers can now register for the 2025 Wikimedia Hackathon, which will take place in Istanbul, Turkey. Application for travel and accommodation scholarships is open from November 12 to December 10, 2024.
Arbitration
- The arbitration case Yasuke (formerly titled Backlash to diversity and inclusion) has been closed.
- An arbitration case titled Palestine-Israel articles 5 has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case will close on 14 December.
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CfD nomination at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 3 § Category:People by criminal charge
A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 3 § Category:People by criminal charge on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. RachelTensions (talk) 17:40, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Category:798 births
Category:798 births has 1 article. The article states this is only an approximate birth year for the subject. I believe we should upmerge the carmtegory into 1790s births since we should not be more precise than we can be accurate. There are at least 5 missing birth year categories between that year and 1000.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:30, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think its worth looking to see if the category can be populated. MasonGarrison 00:32, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Do you mean 798? Because 1798 has over a 1000 people in it. MasonGarrison 00:33, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- I meant 798. I am not sure how I mistyped that. Based on various other factors I highly suspect these categories cannot be populated. In fact they are probably in general over populated. People in general are too willing to put specific birth years when if you look deeply at the sources you come to realize we have less precision than one would expect. The decade categories with all sib-catrgories in the pre-1000 time frame in general have under 100 articles, and some of those are people who even the decade of their birth is not known very precisely. Some of these articles in turn either lack sources amor are sourced only to things like a family try in ancestry and other sources that are not reliable. We also have some people whose actual existence is disputed and thus their very birth thrown in, and I found about 5 people in birth categories pre-1000 or so who actually were born about a century later and their birth year had been mistyped.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Do you mean 798? Because 1798 has over a 1000 people in it. MasonGarrison 00:33, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- 794 has the same issue, although the subject there the year has both an indication of bring approximate and a question mark indicating it is a guess, so there is probably even less reason to have that article in 794 births.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:34, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Either way, I'd be really hesitant to upmerge a single year of birth, without some sort of consensus that we should do the same for other birth years. But it is an interesting thought MasonGarrison 00:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Personally I think we should get rid of all specific birth year categories pre-1000. A large percentage of these people at best we know their birth year in a different calendar. We have cases where what we know is the subject was born about some year in the Islamic calendar. Most Idlamic calendar years are 2 years in the Julian calendar. So what we know is they were born about either of 2 years in the Julian calendar. However as I have said we are missing about 5 years that have no birth articles, so it is not like we even have a complete set. Plus in both these cases the current articles do not belong there. I would have taken them out because their placement there is incorrect and against established precedent, but I was trying to be congenial. It would be nice if you at least acknowledged the fact that the article in 798 and the article in 794 do not fit there.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:46, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Either way, I'd be really hesitant to upmerge a single year of birth, without some sort of consensus that we should do the same for other birth years. But it is an interesting thought MasonGarrison 00:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Also a large number of pre-1300 or so articles are incorrectly in birth categories because people have misinterpreted fl to mean birth, when almost no one was active in a noticed way from birth. Another set the year the person started as a king or other ruler has been misinterpreted as a birth year. This is an issue with a lot of articles on monarchs of places in South Asia. It is also an issue elsewhere. For example Orso Ipato was incorrectly placed in a category based on the year he began as Doge, which is not the year he was born. I have seen cases of pirates who flourished it says for 5 years where those were put as birth and death years. No, 5 year Olds were not pirates. Some people do not pay attention while editing.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:27, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Please see my talk page
I am about to create a note on my talk page you may want to check.John Pack Lambert (talk) 11:48, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Ambassadors of Iraq to Morocco
Thank-you for nominating this category. 21 of the 41 sub-cats of Ambassadors of Irqlaq have only 1 article. It has been about a year since small cat was deprecated. Yet people still mention it, instead of the current guidelines of narrow cat. It's legacy of propping up empty systems also still lives with is. Thankyou for making a luttle bit of a dent.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:02, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- You're welcome! MasonGarrison 01:49, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:List of Indian royalty in the British Indian Army
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Thank you for your submission to Misplaced Pages, and happy editing. Liz 20:34, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:List of former Indian royalty in the Pakistani Army
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Thank you for your submission to Misplaced Pages, and happy editing. Liz 20:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:List of Indian royalty in the Indian Army
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Thank you for your submission to Misplaced Pages, and happy editing. Liz 20:55, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
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Mother runners
This is such an irregular Category I am confused as to the intent of the scope? Is it meant to cover all people who were in some I guess defining way runners after they gave birth to a child? Or is it meant ti include women who were involved in running while raising a child? I am not sure we have any Category for anything that intersects the two. We have Mothers of y monarch categories, but the analog here would be Mothers of runners, which is something else and would be exceptionally trivial. The fact is this is so undeveloped a method of categorization that we do not know which of the above applies. It gets even more odd. There are probably some women who did most of their running career before having a child, but did a few end of career runs that might be categorized as while they were a mother. Either answer on what this means also makes it seem incredibly intrusive. One treats having a child as a medical condition. While there is some truth to this, we do not have a mother soortspeople Category, and it would be overall just as defining (well non-defining, but no more non-defining) to swimmers, gymnasts, ballerinas, basketball players, soccer players, volleyball players, etc. On the other hand if we are categorizing by current raising a child, even a step or adopted one, it is still as non-defining. I think we could actually find more sourcing for a mother-politician Category. Although there the nightmare would be, besides the fact that it is somewhat hit and miss who gets do described, we have the question of who we out in it. Do we need them actively engaged in politics while actively being a mother, or is it meant to class those women in politics who have children as separate from those who do not. It is a mix of trivialness and inteusiveness I do not think we want to consider. I hope we nip this bad scheme in the bud before it expands John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:42, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with you 100% -- it's definitely irregular and doesn't fit within the wikipedia categorization. MasonGarrison 16:14, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
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Nomination of David Fleischer (judge) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article David Fleischer (judge) is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/David Fleischer (judge) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.Artwhitemaster (talk) 05:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Religious leaders categories
Hi, thanks for correcting an edit of mine on Chilean clergy.
Where you are adding this code on Fooian religious leaders,
]
the parent should rather be "{{Title demonym}} religious workers" where that category exists.
Maybe it would be worth automating all of this in a category header template for religious leaders by nationality. – Fayenatic London 10:52, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sure thing! And yes, that's a good idea! I've actually been toying with making a header template by nationality. I've been testing some test cases like Template:Academics by nationality and century category header/nationality. MasonGarrison 13:44, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Happy holidays!
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Happy holidays and a prosperous 2025! |  I was skimming Psychology to find a good picture to put here, and then I got distracted by the illustration of the Stroop effect. Brains are so cool! |
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Mason, it has been a pleasure to work with you over this past year. Your dedication maintaining the plethora of category header templates, your responsiveness to requests to implement various discussions (regardless of how much work it might take to do them!), and your creativity in coming up with ways to repurpose categories are noticed and appreciated :) Thank you for everything this year, and here's to another productive year improving what could reasonably be called humanity's greatest collection of knowledge – Misplaced Pages, the 💕 that anyone can edit. Wishing all the best to you and yours in 2025, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:21, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
- That is so thoughtful of you! Thank you so much for the kind words and appreciation!!!!! MasonGarrison 03:35, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Of course, Mason :) Best, HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Academics by nationality
Your recent edit to {{Academics by nationality and century category header/nationality}} broke at least three categories, causing redlinks to appear at Special:WantedCategories for Category:Kazakh people by occupation, Category:Turkmen people by occupation and {[cl|Uzbek people by occupation}} even though all three exist at the Kazakhstani/Turkmenistani/Uzbekistani forms.
Because these were template-generated categories that I can't manually fix, I've had to revert your edit for the moment to put the contents back where they're supposed to be — if you want to redo the edit, can you please take some care to ensure that it doesn't move existing categories to redlinked forms? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 15:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies! I had done some troubleshooting, but clearly not enough. I think I need to build the new template more incrementally. Thanks for catching and fixing it. MasonGarrison 15:07, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please also note that Category:Australian academics was transcluding the nonexistent {{Title continental2}} and Category:Australian. Please fix these problems when you develop the updated templates. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- thanks. I definitely will. I think an else statement must have gotten misaligned. My plan is to roll the core template back to something less complex and then slowly build it up like I did for Template:Occupation by nationality and century category header. MasonGarrison 18:14, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please also note that Category:Australian academics was transcluding the nonexistent {{Title continental2}} and Category:Australian. Please fix these problems when you develop the updated templates. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:09, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Laurel
I received your comments on Laurel. I don't think being in Vogue is trivial and is in fact independent. Gregpolk (talk) 18:41, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I recommend reviewing the criteria for notability, because I don't think Laurel Charleston meets the notability criteria. I did not say anything about being in Vogue, so I don't understand what comments you're referring to. MasonGarrison 19:00, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Kyriakos Amiridis
Kyriakos Amiridis is a perfect illustration of over categorization leading to difficult navigation for articles. He is currently in the categories Greek diplomats, Greek Ambassadors to Brazil and another Greek Ambassadors Category. He is the only article in either of those Greek Ambassadors to x categories. All Ambassadors are by definition diplomats, so we should diffuse Ambassadors out of the x country diplomats Category. So we can put him in Ambassadors of Greeks, Ambassadors to Brazil and the one other Ambassafor Category. This will give us 3 categories that actually will aide navigation between his article and other articles. It will need to bd proposed at AfD. I also think we should rename Greek diplomats to Diplomats for Greece or maybe Diplomats of Greece. I am sure what we care about here is that thry were employed by Greece as diplomats. We do not care if they ever stepped on Greek soil, or if they were actually Dano-Germanic members of the Royal house, if they were acting as diplomats for Greece we want then in the catehory. On the other hand if they were Greek born who had newly arrived in Washington DC and were hired to work for the US state department then we want then in Diplomats for the United States, not Greek diplomats. In theory there might be some use to group together French nationals, or Spanish nationals, or any other nationals of a given country who were diplomats for the UN, or otherwise diplomats not for their home country, but I think we should make sure because of overlap Category issues to exclude the direct placement of diplomats for France in such a category, and I think we would want to make sure we actually have enough French nationals serving as diplomats not for France, etc. Before creating the category. Ralph Bunche is for example someone who would go in American diplomats as he was an American who worked as a diplomat for the UN but was not a diplomat for the United States. Currently the American diplomats Category mainly overlaps with the contents under Ambassadors of the United Ststes, but it does also contain some people who held diplomatic office without having been an ambassador. I am not sure that for all these people that office is defining. Some of them are primarily notable for being elected politicians, involved in acting or other things and it is not clear their brief time with the diplomatic corps is defining. The person who comes to mind the fastest is Ahirly Temple Black, but since she was at one point chief protocol officer I suspect her diplomatic career is defining *she may have also been an ambassador). It is hard to say if she would be notable without her acting career, and since she was actress long before she was a diplomat it is impossible to do the "can we find enough sources just on her diplomatic career" because many of the sources that exist are of the "where is this actress now" type. However I think the length of her diplomatic career makes it defining. However not every job anyone has ever had is defining, and this applies as much to people who briefly worked for the US state department as for people who were briefly a flight attendant or who passed the bar exam but moved on to some other endeavor after maybe being involved in 1 or 2 cases that were of no real note, and their involvement as a junior lawyer at the law firm may have mattered little.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- My immediate response is that it doesn't seem that problematic. I think that the solution would be to diffuse by century. I have to think more about this though, you've got some good points in here. MasonGarrison 02:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- For example Filip Grzegorzewski who was head of an EU cooperative office is a Polish national who worked as a diplomat, but is not a diplomat for Poland. I think these are 2 separate things. I also think the high rate of the Diplomats for x also being x nationals who are diplomats means we really should apply overlap cat rules and not place Diplomats for x in the x nationals who are diplomats Category for the sane country.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Then there are the various diplomats by city category. In the case of Poland several of these are Israeli diplomats who were raised in that city, and at least 1 is a Soviet diplomat. I think if we leaved these under Diplomats by nationality, and created a separate diplomats by country scheme it would lessen the confusion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:04, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hmmm, that's not a bad idea. It would be similar to how we do clergy by country of work. Could you post your suggestion on a visible talk page? That way you could get feedback/sense of how other people feel about it before you spend a lot of time organizing. MasonGarrison 16:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have a good idea of what talk page to use. We already had Diplomats of the Polish People's Republic, so I placed that in Diplomats by country of origin. I will see if there is a related Wikiproject.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:11, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am going to post it at the categorization talk page. I did post a note that I would post it at the international relations Wikiproject page. If you can think of anywhere else to post it and do so that would be good.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- It is actually Misplaced Pages:Wikiproject Categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:17, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Great! I think that the Misplaced Pages:Wikiproject Categories is the perfect spot for it! (And I think it's great to see you seeking opinions of others on categorization changes!!!!) MasonGarrison 16:25, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- It is actually Misplaced Pages:Wikiproject Categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:17, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Mohamed Larbi Zitout
The article Mohamed Larbi Zitout is the only one in the category Algerian Ambassadors to Lidya. However no where in that article does it say Zitout was an ambassador to Lidya. It says he was a "civil servant" in Lidya, which appears to be an irregular way to say he was working for Algeria as a diplomat there. That is not the same as being an ambassador. I would remove him from the category, because he does not belong, but I do not want to do an out of process emptying. He should be removed from the category because it is not justified.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:07, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
- Good find! I did a little digging into the sourcing, and I think you're right. I've nominated the category, thank you for drawing my attention to it. MasonGarrison 22:18, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Politicians arrested in categories
I think these are worse than you suggest. People are often arrested in places where thry are not from, abd even in places where thry are not charged. So location of where you are arrested is trivial. Being arrested is also not defining. Where you are arrested even more so.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:15, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Austrian Ambassadors to Norway
The category Austrian Ambassadors to Norway consists of Klemens von Metternich. There are several issues here. 1- Ambassadors are a by country office, so Austrian Ambassadors means Ambassadors if the Austrian state formed in 1918. We have a different Ambassadors of the Austrian Empire for people in the time of Merrernich. 2- No where in the article does it say Metternich was ambassador to Norway. It appears he was Ambassador to Saxony and Ambassador to France. He was appointed to be Ambassador to the Russian Empire but never took up that office going to France instead. So it looks like Metternich does not belong so we should delete the category as empty.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Austrian Ambassadors to Poland
This category consists of Benedikt de Caché, who fails to be a proper person for inclusion. He is currently in Category:Diplomats of the Habsburg monarchy, which seems correct. He far pre-dates Austria as the state sending Ambassadors. He also would not have bern sent to Piland but to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:12, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Austrian Ambassadors to Sweden
This category has no one in it who fits the category. There is one who was an ambassador of the Austrian Empire to Sweden. I have placed him in Ambassadors of the Austrian Empire. Then there is a 1 article sub-cat of Ambassadors of Austria-Hungary to Sweden. We probably should rearrange things do that is upmerged to Ambassadors to Sweden and Ambassadors of the Austria-Hungary, and merge the 1 direct article to Ambassadors to Sweden.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:18, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Ambassadors of Belize
This category I think has 9 total articles, of which only 8 are Biographical and then 1 list. Those articles are spread across 21 total sub-cats. The largest sub-cat has 4 articles, 1 list and 3 Biographical articles. It seems that all this could be in 1 category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:45, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
Arlette Dagnon Vignikin
Arlette Dagnon Vignikin is in 7 Ambassadors categories. 1 does not apply. She was not ambassador to China, but held a low level appointment. Since she is the only contents of that category I am not removing her. The other categories are all also 1 entry categories, and all being held at once.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:47, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
CS1 error on Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243
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Bautista Saavedra
Bautista Saavedra is in the categories Bolivian Ambassadors to Belgium and Bolivian Ambassadors to the Netherlands. There is no mention of him having held either office in the article. We need to remove him from both categories since we should not have articles in categories not supported by the text. He is the only article in both categories however.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:16, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
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Ambassadors of Palau
This category has 10 articles, 8 Biographical and 2 lists. They are spread across 7 sub-cats. No sub-cat has more than 3 articles. By ambassador standards this is actually not a overly used category, since most people seem to at most only been holders of 2 different ambassadorships. It is small enough that A-it is pretty clear we can upmerge everything just to Ambassadors of Palau with no problem. B-as far as I can tell all the assignments her were resident Ambassadors, so upmerging to both makes sense and C- this is so small everywhere having any subcats does not make sense. I think this would a doable case of nominating all 7 categories for upmerger.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:55, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Diego Dublé Urrutia
Diego Dublé Urrutia in the article the only ambassador level posting it mentions is Ecuador. He is also in the Chilean Ambassadors to Cuba Category. The article does not even mention that he was ever in Cuba. It does say he had 17 diplomatic postings, but it seems most were not as ambassador. He is the only article in Ambassadors of Chile to Cuba, so the category should be deleted as having no appropriate contents.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Ambassadors of Abkazia
This category has 1 sub-cat which in turn has 1 article. I think we should at least upmerge the sub-cat to Ambassadors of Abkazia and Ambassadors to Russia. However he was also a foreign minister for Abkazia. He is the only person in all of Abkazian diplomats not just in the Foreign Minister cat. I am tempted to say we should just upmerge him to Ambassadors to Russia, and delete Ambassadors if Abkazia fully, since he will still be in the Foreign ministers cat, but that might be going too far. There is clearly no reason to have a category and a sub-category to hold just 1 article altogether.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:23, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Category:Foreign nationals imprisoned in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for merging
Category:Foreign nationals imprisoned in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Massimo Baistrocchi
Massimo Baistrocchi is in 5 or 6 categories for being an ambassador. All except one only have him, and the 1 with someone else has 2 people. I think upmerging to Ambassadors of Italy and the respective Ambassadors to categories would greatly aid navigation.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:29, 28 December 2024 (UTC)