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Talk:Genetic studies of Jews

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This article contains a translation of Études génétiques sur les Juifs from fr.wikipedia.

Questionable sourcing?

Someone verify these many informations?: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Genetic_studies_of_Jews&diff=prev&oldid=1256248852, as these persons were reverted here: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Beta_Israel&diff=prev&oldid=1258257377 and fake article they made was deleted: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Judeo-Ge%27ez, but still on French Wiki: https://fr.wikipedia.org/Judeo-Ge%27ez 41.222.180.254 (talk) 08:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry but it is difficult to understand what you are requesting exactly Michael Boutboul (talk) 10:56, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Full paragraph to be removed

There is a mistake regarding this paragraph, it should be removed because it concerns Autosomal not Y-DNA. Actually the same paragraph already exist in the Autosomal section.

The largest study to date on Jews who lived in North Africa was conducted in 2012 and was led by Prof. Harry Ostrer of the departments of pathology, genetics and pediatrics at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine at New York's Yeshiva University, and was published online in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, in it the scholars had found that the Jews who lived in Morocco and Algeria had more European admixture in their gene pools than the Jews who lived in Tunisia and Libya, probably as a result of a larger expelled Sephardi Jewish population settling in those two first mentioned lands post 1492 and 1497. All communities of North African Jews exhibited a high degree of endogamy.

Michael Boutboul (talk) 11:04, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Proposal to Restructure the Article

When I created this page in 2010, autosomal studies did not exist. Now, they are the most relevant studies. I think we should restructure the article by starting with autosomal studies, followed by Y-DNA and then mtDNA. Michael Boutboul (talk) 11:09, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

It makes sense to me, but it could become a big job. It is worth thinking ahead about the different phases of work. I think many such articles have grown in such a way that they are now in a sense giving a chronological history of the field, also within the different sections. The result is that the latest results, which should normally be at the top in a scientific article, are way down below. I think that in the longer run most old Y DNA and mitochondrial DNA studies will eventually need to be deleted, and not just moved downwards. Perhaps a possible approach in the meantime is to first divide such articles into two parts, the first containing ONLY material which defines the current state of the art, and the second containing a history of the field section which can still be chronological. My reason for suggesting this is partly practical. (The second section would require less reworking.) These remarks are meant only to be general remarks about this type of article. I have not looked in detail before writing this.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:40, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
@Andrew Lancaster, I agree on your diagnostic, however the first part would be very similar to the lead. Don't you think so? Michael Boutboul (talk) 11:46, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
No, because more detailed. I guess I'm thinking that as a first step the Autosomal section would first be moved up before the history section, and within that autosomal section the chronology would perhaps be reversed. Is that similar to your thinking?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:51, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
I am not a specialist in Misplaced Pages articles, and I am not sure where the History section should be placed. I would have left it at the beginning, but I don’t have a strong opinion on the matter. Upon reflection, we could add the summary you mentioned at the beginning of the section on autosomal DNA (and similarly to the Y-DNA and mtDNA sections). However, I am not in favor of removing the sections on mtDNA and Y-DNA, as they provide information that is not covered in the autosomal section. Finally, as @Alaexis and you suggested, reversing the chronology seems like a good idea. Michael Boutboul (talk) 19:03, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
For example, a summary for the Autosomal DNA would be something like that. Do you agree
== Summary ==
Autosomal DNA studies, based on more than a dozen analyses conducted primarily from the 2000s to the 2010s, consistently indicate a shared Middle Eastern origin among diverse Jewish populations, including Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and Mizrahi Jews, with varying levels of admixture from host populations. Genetic analyses show that Jewish groups form a distinct cluster between Middle Eastern and European populations, supporting their historical dispersion from a common ancestral population.
Ashkenazi Jews demonstrate genetic similarities with Southern Europeans, such as Italians and Greeks, while exhibiting unique markers distinguishing them from non-Jewish groups. Some studies also reveal significant regional genetic diversity, such as the Berber admixture in Libyan Jews or Ethiopian Jews’ local ancestry combined with Middle Eastern links.
Other findings confirm substantial genetic continuity across Jewish populations, with patterns of endogamy and isolation contributing to distinctive genetic profiles. Studies show high levels of genetic relatedness among Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and Mizrahi Jews, corresponding to a shared Middle Eastern ancestry with variations in regional admixture.
Some analyses estimate European admixture levels in Ashkenazi Jews at 30–60%, primarily from Southern Europe, with genetic markers indicating a significant Middle Eastern component. North African Jews exhibit proximity to Middle Eastern and European groups, reflecting their historical migration and genetic isolation.
Overall, autosomal DNA evidence supports the historical narrative of Jewish populations originating from the ancient Levant, with genetic diversity shaped by migrations, admixture, and isolation over millennia. Michael Boutboul (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
I agree. Also when describing autosomal studies, we should start with the newest ones rather than the first ones. Alaexis¿question? 13:04, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
Yes! Thanks for your answer :-) Michael Boutboul (talk) 19:03, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

@Boutboul: I don't think there is any rule for where to put a history section, but for some topics the history of the field is of major importance. In the hard science they tend not to think this way, and I suppose genetics should be a hard science. I would think in any case that you want something soon after the lead which gives the current state of the art (but of course explains it this time more fully than in the lead) Simply moving the autosomal section up in front of Y DNA and mitochondrial, and reversing the chronology a bit in that section, would be a good way to start. From what I can see here we are more or less on the same wave length in theory.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 23:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

OK, I trust your experience. Should we start to make the change or should we wait a bit for other editors? Michael Boutboul (talk) 05:11, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
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