Misplaced Pages

2007 AS Roma-Manchester United conflict

Initiated by PeeJay at 20:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Involved parties

• PeeJay2K3 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Daddy Kindsoul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• User talk:PeeJay2K3
• User talk:Daddy Kindsoul

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• Talk:2007 AS Roma-Manchester United conflict
• User talk:PeeJay2K3
• User talk:Daddy Kindsoul

Statement by PeeJay2K3

This is about the neutrality of the edits made by Daddy Kindsoul to the article 2007 AS Roma-Manchester United conflict. It is my belief that his edits are biased and do not accurately reflect the incidents in question, as referenced to in sources in the article itself. The edits he has made give off a definite anti-Manchester United sentiment, and are inappropriate to Misplaced Pages.

Daddy Kindsoul has repeatedly ignored the attempts of both myself and Darkson to resolve this matter, despite providing incontrovertible evidence supporting our accounts of the incident. Therefore, I put this article up for arbitration as it seems that we will not be able to put an end to this disagreement through diplomacy.

Comment (not statement) by DaddyKindsoul

I'd like to say that PeeJay2K3 had never made me aware that he had opened a Request for Comment on the talkpage previously. He couldn't be bothered to leave a message on my talkpage making me aware of the RfC (which initiatiors are supposed to do). As the article isn't on my watch list I didnt see it before, though I am willing to participate in the RfC resolution attempt, so this arbitration can be discarded as per the policy which states other means must be tried first in Misplaced Pages:Resolving disputes.

I have replied as part of the Request for Comment; on Talk:2007_AS_Roma-Manchester_United_conflict#Comment instead. - Daddy Kindsoul 20:35, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/6/0/0)

• Decline, premature; please try other forms of dispute resolution first. Kirill Lokshin 01:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline. --jpgordon 02:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline as premature. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 04:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline. - SimonP 13:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reject per Kirill Lokshin. FloNight 13:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept content must reflect the references cited Fred Bauder 19:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline as premature. Paul August ☎ 21:20, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Justin Guarini

Initiated by - hmwithtalk at 19:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Involved parties

• Hmwith (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Bkstone (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Both have commented

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Talk:Justin Guarini, User talk:Bkstone

Statement by Hmwith

This about whether the American Idol template, {{American Idol}}, be kept on the bottom of the Justin Guarini article, as it is for every other notable contestant, winner, runner-up, and related article.

Justin wouldn't be publicly known if it wasn't for this show. People know him from the show, and relate him to it.

The template should DEFINITELY be used in this article. Bkstone keeps removing it for no apparant reason besides the fact he personally doesn't like it, for some reason. It adds to his biography as it associates him to other AI articles and contestants. It's not just his opinion that matters. Misplaced Pages is about everyone reaching a compromise.

Bkstone does not "OWN" the Justin page. Things at Misplaced Pages are done by consensus, and no one can change that. The box belongs on the page. Thus far, more people have wanted it there than not (see Talk:Justin Guarini and User talk:Bkstone), as it aids in moving through AI articles. His defense for Justin could work for many articles, AI and otherwise, but it is agreed upon that the templates belong there. He can't seem to find one other person who agrees with him. Having an edit war is very immature, and makes everyone involved look bad. I wish that he could accept that most people want it there, and move on. If he don't agree with it, again, he should try to gather some support from others who have the same feelings.

The template is on every single other person's article. Why the HELL would it not be on his? It doesn't contribute to each article that it's in, but, rather, to the scope of American Idol on Misplaced Pages, and organization and navigation of related articles.

NOTE: If you look at the history, I clearly did not create the American Idol template, as he lies below.

Statement by Bkstone

The templates add nothing relevant to Guarini's biography that hasn't already been mentioned in the text of the article (that he was the Season 1 runner-up to K. Clarkson). The rest of the info in the templates is completely unrelated to his personal history. In other words, the templates are either repetitive and/or irrelevant info, thus a completely frivolous use of space.

The template is irrelevant and/or repetitive. There's simply no reason to have it added to his personal bio as it adds nothing to his personal history. Only clutters the page.

For the record: I've researched, updated, and maintained this article for over a year. So, this article means something to me. On the other hand, hmwith made a generic template, yet repeatedly insists it be used (while also attacking me on my talk page, btw). Now this campaign. Enough.

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/6/0/0)

• Reject. This is a content dispute; nothing to arbitrate here. --jpgordon 19:59, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reject. Not an ArbCom case. Get more input from other users to determine consensus on this issue. FloNight 13:49, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reject. Charles Matthews 18:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline, content dispute. Kirill Lokshin 01:39, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 04:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept, not really a content dispute. Fred Bauder 19:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline. Paul August ☎ 21:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Killian Documents

Initiated by Ryan Postlethwaite (on behalf of User:callmebc) at 00:55, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Involved parties

• callmebc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Chris Chittleborough (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Alabamaboy (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• OtterSmith (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Durova (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• Jehochman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Charles_Matthews (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• EdJohnston (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Andyvphil (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Killian documents (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

CWC Alabamaboy htom Durova Jehochman Charles Matthews EdJohnston Andyvphil Athaenara

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

I contacted ^demon about what to do, and this was his response

Statement by callmebc

Hi

I had made a series of posts and engaged in debates on the Killian discussions page back in the fall, and then left it for a while until recently, when I thought to post some updates regarding 70's office tech (it wasn't quite as primitive as certain people have claimed) and some new and rather (so to speak) interesting bits of info that I had come across in the DoD database of Bush's records

I was going to post, get into some debates and then leave. But everything I posted was met, save for one slight exception, with outright hostility, insults and absolute rejection without discussion of everything I had posted, including even an extensive IEEE article on 70's word processing systems from this past January. This is the abstract for the full article.

Since the forgery charges started with assertions of what 70's office equiptment could or could not do, this article seemed like a worthy topic among other things, no? Apparently not in the minds of certain people. Ironically an even longer post of mine in the separate Killian Authenticy wiki has been relatively untouched save for being moved to its own section: (Originally I just added a long post to existing sections, but then CWC, Chris Chittleborough, moved both to their own sections.)

Anyway, the acrimony escalated, including my being emailed a "Loss of Privacy" threat by apparently the lead editor of the page, CWC. An admin named Alabamaboy appeared (CWC has denied bringing him in) who arbitrarily, and with demonstably bogus reasons, deleted the entire discussion, which included postings from other people, and which I put back after he failed to respond to any of requests to point out exactly I was in violation. See this, this, and this.

Actually, while most of the Wikipedians I've dealt with have been consistently unresponsive to specific questions, Alabamaboy was exceptionally unresponsive -- go see: this, this, and this.

It finally dawned on me why these people might be so hostile, and a little investigation showed that the main culprits, CWC, htom (OtterSmith), and Alabamaboy, all had something to do with the right wing Little Green Footballs (LGF) blog site in one way or the other. And LGF was a key player in pushing along Rathergate. What this all meant is that basically the main Misplaced Pages article on Rathergate/the Killian memos was being run by right wingers with no interest in anything that diminished the forgery charges in general and LGF in particular.

I set up a little trap of sorts that got one of the editors, htom, to publicly admit to being an active member of LGF. I told him that this meant he had a major conflict of interest, which is not arguable (Rathergate was huge in giving LGF notice and status), so I told him "sayonara". This led very quickly to my being given a 72 hr block from posting. This brought in another editor, Jehochman, who made some random comments, and then finally an admin, Durova, who put the 72 hour block on me.

One extremely frustrating aspect to all this is that almost nobody responds to questions. I asked Alabamaboy 3 times how he got involved and he refused to answer. I did likewise with Jehochman, and I got evasion (although CWC popped in to deny bringing in Alabamaboy).

I came across this entry on the COI/Noticeboard, which made it sound like some 3rd party named Athaenara had put the block on me and not Durova. I asked Durova in an email about this, but she never responded. I also asked about this in that COI/Noticeboard post, but some random, and evidently not exactly well-informed, person named EdJohnston responded, and he said that Durova put the block on me.

The only helpful person in all this was Charles Matthews -- I contacted him during my block and at least he gave CWC a hard time about the email threat. And it also looks as though he contacted Durova about my concerns about who was running the Killian Documents wiki.

I have Andyvphil listed as a party, and while he was actually the most directly adversarial of the editors on the discussion page, he was really the only one who actually discussed and debated things actually related to the Killian memos. Htom mostly only sniped insults and posted nonsense, while the others involved merely made factless statements, especially Alabamaboy, that they refused to defend or even discuss. That being said, of course Andyvphil was the only other person reprimanded by an admin, and that was for calling me "shit for brains" at one point.

Encyclopedias are suppose to be things use for knowledge, and not for nonsense and comforting myths. In Misplaced Pages's own entry on encyclopedias, they are suppose to include "Works of encyclopedic scope aim to convey the important accumulated knowledge for their subject domain."

I don't see any anything being mentioned about them also being petty fiefdoms run by right wing libertarians. If you guys are serious about having Misplaced Pages be a very serious, very credible, and very vast enclopedia, you really need to put your more active editors and admins on notice that they are to help add to knowledge and not subtract from it, and to not avoid answering legitimate questions about their decisions just because they don't want to.

With that said, I request the following:

1) CWC be banned from any further editing, at least temporarily. He obviously has no business being involved in editing an encyclopedia given his behavior with me.

2) Alabamaboy be stripped of his admin rank -- he's demonstrated far, far too much arrogant misuse of his position. Also, that he explain how he got involved in all this.

3) Jehochman to explain how he got involved. Also his apparent desire to be admin should be questioned due to his SEO position, as well as his behavior in all this. Both seem to conflict with the best interests of Misplaced Pages, which ranks very high in any Google search, which makes it problematic to have as admins people whose job is to get the client companies rank higher in Google searches.

4) Durova to explain how she reached the decision to block me for 72 hours -- did she read any of the exchanges or did she just take the word of more familiar editors and an admin.

5) EdJohnston to explain his "logic" of how I have "don't have a bona fide COI complaint" in regards to htom, even though htom is a member of LGF, whose very reputation and status is explicitedly tied to Rathergate.

6) htom and anyone else connected as active members of Little Green Footballs, and well as the two other blogs who were major players in the Rathergate saga, the Free Republic and Power Line, to with be banned from anything connected to the Killian documents, and well as Dan Rather and Mary Mapes.

As far the others listed go, I have no real issues with them. Athaenara was unresponsive to my request, but EdJohnston finally, after a lengthy (and somewhat pointless) exchange, told me that she, like he, is a COI volunteer who normally monitors that board. Still, though, considering how many times and people I had asked....

Note -- I just found out that htom (OtterSmith) will not be available to respond until this Monday at the earliest -- I request that arbitrators hold off any further voting until at least both he and especially CWC make their respective statements, since both are rather central to why we are all gathered here (so to speak). Thank you for your consideration. -BC aka Callmebc 23:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Response to Alabamaboy. In regards to LGF, Alabamaboy claimed, While I read the site, it is one of a number of blogs and media outlets I read, both liberal and conservative. Otherwise, I have no involvement with the site. I feel, however, I should point out a curious sequence involving LGF, the LGF wiki, and Alabamaboy. On Sept. 6th, 2006, LGF made a brief post titled "Misplaced Pages's Fatal Flaw" that criticized LGF's wiki entry as being "incredibly biased and one-sided." Now look at who involved himself almost immediately afterwards with that very same wiki. Also take note of the telltale comment by "Dragula" immediately following Alabamaboy's posting. 'Nuff said, eh? -BC aka Callmebc 17:02, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Second Note -- I respectively ask that the arbtrators think long and hard about the info in the preceding "Response to Alabamaboy" addendum: that pretty much undermines Alabamaboy's credibility. If that's not enough, note well my prior complaints about Alabamaboy not responding to any of my questions about how he got involved in the Killian documents dispute. With that in mind, go check the time and date of this complaint by Charles Johnson in regards to me personally (with some exaggeration, as with claiming I had "written at least ten thousand words") and then go check when Alabamaboy first joined in on the Killian dispute (and note well how the same exaggeration of "10,000 plus words" is repeated.)

I'm not a wiki person, (and frankly I never will be after this), but I don't see any other way besides Arbitration to deal with people like Alabamaboy, CWC and htom, all of whom have been no more than obstructive and utterly dishonest LGF meat puppets (in wiki parlance) in this affair. If you don't think wiki articles being run by editors and admins with closeminded and hostile political agendas is of any great concern, so be it then. What that would say about Misplaced Pages's dedication to being "an effort to create and distribute a 💕 of the highest possible quality" is another matter. -BC aka Callmebc 14:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Response to CWC. Let me first give you some background to my postings and interest: Aside from some spotty early entries involving Joe Wilson and the Killian docs , I first seriously got involved with Misplaced Pages on Sept. 16, 2006, when I objected to the term "forged" Killian memos" in the LGF Wiki: . That led to a discussion/debate involving mostly "htom" and sometimes CWC. It was htom who suggested I move the discussion to the Killian wiki on Sept. 27, and which I did: & . That led to a long discussion/debate with a number of people, and since I was actively researching the matter at the time, I got into the habit of posting my findings as I found them. Yes, indeed I have referred to myself as a "troll" several times, but you might perchance do a page search on "troll" to note the context: . I tapered off my Wiki contribs while I was dealing with some more complex research, and then started up again, gradually, on March 1st . It wasn't until after I spotted a logical impossibility involving one of the memos and the DoD records -- which eliminated the forgery scenario for all intents and purposes -- that I really resumed posting more seriously, beginning on March 24: . I posted to both the Killian Documents and Killian Authenticity discussion pages. This was really a follow-up to some Usenet and Wizbang Blog debates to see how effective and convincing was the new evidence, and really a precursor to a more serious presentation down the road. I got a Wiki account after this comment by Andyvphil:

CWC's "involvement" began with him moving both of my initial major posts to their own subsections. The one on the Authenticity wiki is still apparently intact: His second "involvement" was off-wiki when he emailed me a "Loss of Privacy" threat/warning/gentle FYI/whatever on March 27. You can take his explanation of that for what it's worth (See also ). Only Andyvphill and to a lesser extent htom and a couple of others actually engaged in discussion on the discussion page: . CWC's 3rd "contribution" was to post some demonstrable nonsense and admit to sending the email, although I never named him: . CWC then kept quiet until after Alabamaboy intervened in behalf of Charles Johnson, as I had already demonstrated . (PS -- if anyone is interested in further proof of Alambamaboy's misuse of his admin rights, just ask.) As with Alabamaboy, CWC threw out all sorts of claims about my violating Wiki policies while avoiding answering any of my inquiries to point out where and how: & . And as far as his claim of Up until a few weeks ago, I did not even read LGF regularly, and I still avoid the comments there, bear in mind Alabamaboy's actions after LGF's Sept. 6th, 2006 wiki complaint , Dragula's "Team" comment , and then look at who joined in on Sept. 7th: .

'Nuff said again, eh? -BC aka Callmebc 20:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Response to Andjam. It took me a minute to figure out who he is and why he thought he needed to come clean -- he made a pretty minor comment in support of CWC here: FYI. (Also I don't know why he's so pessimistic -- this is sort of best 4 out of 7 and I'm down 3 to 1 so far....) -BC aka Callmebc 00:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Ryan Postlethwaite

It seems that this arbitration case is a little early. With respect to the initiating party (well the original initiating party), I feel it would be better to explore other methods of dspute resolution before bringing this to aritration. The community is more than able to handle this case. Ryan Postlethwaite 01:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Jehochman

Upon investigating a WP:COIN report about Callmebc and the Killian documents, I noticed that Callmebc had made several appalling violations of of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. I reported these to my admin coach, Durova, and noted exactly what I'd done on the WP:COIN thread. After he was blocked, Callmebc hounded me with accusatory questions. Instead of arguing with a user who was angry about getting blocked, and who claimed to have set "traps" for other users, I limited myself to making friendly responses and suggesting ways that Callmebc could use his energies to help the project. I agree with Ryan Postlethwaite that this arbitration is premature. Jehochman (/_contrib) 06:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Charles Matthews

I'm not clear why I'm being cited as a party. I looked into a complaint by User:Callmebc, around an email from User:Chris Chittleborough. I wasn't very happy with the content of that mail, as shown to me; User:Chris Chittleborough gave a rambling and not specially convincing justification on User talk:Charles Matthews. I have pointed out to User:Chris Chittleborough that his archiving of the Killian papers Talk page, by page move, was eccentric; it mangled the history of a contentious discussion.

I advised against the bringing of an ArbCom case on the matter. I haven't looked closely into why User:Callmebc has been blocked for policy violations, but have no reason to believe these blocks were ill-considered. Charles Matthews 07:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Durova

Similar to Charles Matthews, I wonder why I have been named as an involved party and respectfully request that my name be removed from the list if a case indeed opens. My sole involvement in this situation was to issue a brief and routine block for several rather obvious violations of WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL, and WP:POINT. That block was implemented without comment or prejudice as to the merits of any surrounding dispute. Callmebc raised serious allegations that appeared to be irrelevant to the basis for the block and had far too little evidence to merit serious investigation. Now this request for arbitration constructs ominous implications around the perfectly normal noticeboard discussion that was background to my intervention. I seriously doubt the Committee's intervention is necessary to conclude that one editor was impolite until a block became necessary, then afterward created a fuss over it. That is all I can say from experience and that much experience inspires no confidence in the rest of the basis for this arbitration request. Durova 08:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Alabamaboy

I agree with other editors who have questioned this RfA. The editor creating this RfA was blocked for policy violations. In addition, a major portion of User:Callmebc's RfA appears to be that most editors refused to respond to his inquiries for information. There is no WP requirement that editors must respond to a request for information, especially when that request (such as the one from Callmebc) implies that an "investigation" is being conducted w/o any official WP approval.

That said, here is my summary of events: As part of my work as a Misplaced Pages editor, I monitor blog mentions of Misplaced Pages. I first became involved in the Talk:Killian documents page after seeing the essay posted there by User:Callmebc mentioned on Little Green Footballs, a high-traffic conservative blog (see ). Most of Callmebc's essay can be seen here (due to User:Callmebc's posting style, the essay wasn't created all at one time).

After investigating the matter, it appeared to me that User:Callmebc was breaking a number of Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines, including making numerous incivil statements and engaging in personal attacks, violating WP:BLP (see , where Callmebc states "And that's my case for labeling Charles Johnson a fraud."), using the talk page for his own personal view (in volation of Misplaced Pages:Talk page, where it states in bold that article talk pages "should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views."), posting original research, and using Misplaced Pages as a webspace provider or a discussion forum for his views (in violation of Misplaced Pages is not). I then removed the problematic edits as original research and told User:Callmebc that I'd done this (see ).

Callmebc has been warned numerous times about all of these issues, both by myself and several other editors (such as this warning at , where I also provides diffs to the personal attacks). Since then, Callmebc has continued his personal attacks and lack of civility (such as where he calls me "Hick boy," where he calls an editor "dimwit," and , where he repeatedly uses "idiotic" to describe another editor's work and closes with "It'll be time for cheers when you're banned from here.") and repeatedly threatened to have anyone who disagrees with him blocked or banned from Misplaced Pages (again, see )

As can be seen from Callmebc's talk page, I repeatedly raised the issues of Callmebc's personal attacks and incivility, providing links to such attacks and incivility. Callmebc repeated denied any problem. Because Callmebc had begun to personally attack me, I decided that I would not block him myself to avoid any potential conflict of interest. Eventually another admin blocked him for these attacks.

As for Callmebc's claim of me being involved with the Little Green Footballs website, that is wrong. While I read the site, it is one of a number of blogs and media outlets I read, both liberal and conservative. Otherwise, I have no involvement with the site.

I should note that my involvement in this whole process was as an editor trying to maintain Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines and I never used my administrator abilities. In this respect, I also warned another editor in this affair for also making personal attacks against Callmebc (see ). Ironically, Callmebc then stated that I'd "issued that reprimand without (his) consent" even though personal attack warnings are not dependent on the consent of the one attacked.

In short, Callmebc has been disruptive, combative, and engaged in a pattern of violating Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines (including WP:BLP and WP:NPA, especially with regards to the Talk:Killian documents page. --Alabamaboy 15:18, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Andyvphil

Since no action is requested against me, and I'm not requesting any action, I'm not really a party to this case. I was demonstratively uncivil to Callmebc and he was, before that, repeatedly uncivil to me, but he seems to have taken my point and we can work that out without intervention. Andyvphil 13:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Chris Chittleborough AKA "CWC"

Some Background: "BC" started editing Misplaced Pages in October 2004, as 209.6.203.244 (talk · contribs). In September 2006, I noticed that he had written large amounts of text at Talk:Little Green Footballs (and responded here and here). "BC" then moved to Talk:Killian documents. One of the few times I agreed with him was when he called himself a troll. He reappeared briefly in 2007 as 65.78.25.69 (talk · contribs) then registered as Callmebc (talk · contribs). With all three accounts, he has signed as "-BC", expressed the same POV and mentioned that he owns a certain website.

Privacy: Because "BC" registered that website directly, anyone who knows how to do a WHOIS query can get the contact details he gave at the time. When "BC" registered here, I was concerned that he might not be aware that he had already made his name (and a street address etc) publically available, and used our "Email this user" facility to tell him so. Unfortunately, my browser crashed after I had spent an hour or so composing that message, and my hurried rewrite is not very good. "BC" has since copied almost the entire message to his talk page. (See User talk:Callmebc#Email "threat". I had already added a heavily-censored version which does not mention WHOIS.) Despite "BC"'s repeated claims that I was threatening to reveal those WHOIS details, I believe that any fair-minded observer will see that I was telling him that the details were already public; I said nothing about making them public, nor about anything I wanted him to do or not do. (BTW, I don't know whether "BC" followed the not-uncommon practice of giving the contact details of a friend or relative when registering that website. I do know that his reply to my Wiki-mail expressed no concern about the details becoming known.)

Article Talk Page Edits: Aside from user talk:Callmebc, my main dealings with user:Callmebc were at Talk:Killian documents. Here's a list of all my relevant edits there (AFAICT):

• (→Ra^thergate - Add heading to long comment by , respond; probably should have refactored WP:BLP violations)
• (→WP:OR - Brief, partial response to User:Callmebc, asking for removal of WP:BLP violations on this page)
• (+{{inuse}})
• (Redact violations of WP:BLP, add warning to any reader who tries to follow this mess)
• (Misuse of this page)
• (rm {{inuse}}, add {{talkheader}}. Let's all respect Misplaced Pages's Talk page guidelines, please.)
• (→Misuse of this page - What discussion pages are for. Need RS for every negative claim about a living person. Two more BLP redactions.)

LGF: Callmebc says I'm an "LGF meat puppet". I am not (nor have I ever been ...) registered at LGF. Up until a few weeks ago, I did not even read LGF regularly, and I still avoid the comments there. I have had no off-wiki communication with anyone about the Little Green Footballs, Killian documents or Killian documents authenticity issues articles.

What Next: If Callmebc wants to continue at Misplaced Pages, maybe Misplaced Pages:Adopt-a-User (with a carefully selected adopter) could help him?

I've tried to keep this short, but I'm not good at writing concisely. I can provide lots more information if desired. Sincerely, CWC 14:34, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Andjam

Declaration of COI: I've commented at LGF, and have even received a few hat tips. I wish everyone the best of luck with alternative forms of dispute resolution, but I suspect there'll end up being blocks or arbitration. Andjam 23:10, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/4/1/0)

• Recuse, I suppose. Charles Matthews 07:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reject. --jpgordon 15:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reject, not an ArbCom case. The community is handling the situation per policy and custom. FloNight 22:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reject; need to pursue other methods of dispute resolution first Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 12:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept Fred Bauder 19:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline Paul August ☎ 05:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Soviet occupation of Romania

Initiated by Biruitorul at 16:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Involved parties

• Anonimu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Biruitorul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Daizus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Dpotop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Irpen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Petri Krohn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Turgidson (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Vecrumba (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Anonimu 18:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

- I am aware. Biruitorul 16:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

- I am aware. Daizus 16:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

- I am aware. Dpotop 18:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

- I am aware. Petri Krohn 23:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

- I am aware. Turgidson 21:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

- I am aware. —  Pēters J. Vecrumba 17:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Biruitorul

Since March 26, a dispute has been ongoing at this article. The main issue revolves around the title and whether the presence of Soviet troops on Romanian soil from 1944 to 1958 should be labelled an "occupation". A subsidiary matter is whether the article should be split and a new article called "Liberation of Romania" be created, although meanwhile a new article called King Michael Coup has appeared. Still, in an edit war just today, User:Anonimu kept replacing the split proposal tag as well, so it seems there is still a desire to split. I believe this case needs arbitrators' involvement because a third opinion was solicited, given and ignored by the other side; mediation was not accepted by two users. Biruitorul 16:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Comments

On Irpen's statement regarding "the falsehood that I rejected the mediation": let's not split hairs here. Mediation requires "yes" votes from all parties involved. Not voting is thus equivalent to voting "no"; had Irpen and Anonimu voted "yes", mediation would have happened, so in effect they did in fact reject mediation.
I reject Anonimu's assertion that the third opinion was invalid: the opinion provider was perfectly capable of providing an opinion contrary to the one I may have intimated he should provide. While I was not aware of that clause in the WP:NPA policy, so I apologise if it was construed as a personal attack, I thought it was important to point out that Anonimu is indeed "an avowed communist", because that fact is intimately bound up with his disruptive, baseless tagging of this article (and others). -- Biruitorul 19:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Further Comment

I don't want this to turn into an endless back-and-forth between me and Anonimu, so I'll likely stop here. First, I note your reservation. Second, third opinions are an established part of the process, so of course they're relevant. Third: you'll find people who dispute that man landed on the moon, that Elvis is dead, etc. - it's not our job to accomodate every single viewpoint; once one side has demonstrably proved its case, to me that signals the end of the reasonable part of the dispute, and any further disputation, while I don't deny it exists, I reserve the right to deem it disruptive and baseless. Fourth, to reciprocate, I want the fact that Anonimu is an avowed communist to be noted, considering the subject of the disputed article. -- Biruitorul 00:16, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Preliminary statement by Irpen

For a start, and most importantly, I take a liberty to respectfully concur with the statement of the just voted Arbitrator. I urge everyone to review that ill-fated Latvia arbcom and, sorry for being blunt, that ArbCom was a massive waste of time that did not produce any solution. Nor was it able to from what I understand what the functions of the ArbCom are and how similar is this case to a previous one. I would also like to refer everyone to the original statement I made at that arbcom. Substitute few words by few others, for what sorts of accusations were brought up here in comparison with there, and you get the exact same thing.

ArbCom is welcome to study users' behavior of course, like it did in the Latvia case. I've seen a good amount of abusive statements at that article's and several related talk pages which IMO still does not reach the level of the ArbCom's concern, but I don't mind if ArbCom examines that if it has time and interest and I am known to be rather thick skinned towards users splashing incivilities. Granted some of the talk page participants in case of Romania were more abusive than the participants in the Latvia page. However, the most important thing, I don't see much difference between the disputes and the previous dispute is not anywhere closer to the solution after the Arbcom than it was before it.

IMO, the solution in seemingly "reconcileable" content disputes, is in continuing the discussions, widening the participants' circle and treating curtly the users that disrupt such discussions. The quick-fix solution would be to appoint a talk-page guardian who would quickly step in and crack down on the disruptive users. So, should the ArbCom issue such injunction and mothball the case? I don't know but arbitrators tried creative measures in the past.

Finally, I would like to dismiss the falsehood that I rejected the mediation. I did not. My entry on this matter was made at the mediation's page talk. I outlined my concerns about the prospects of the success of the mediation and requested some feedback to address them. Unfortunately, the feedback to my entry only emphasized the validity of my concerns despite I repeated afterwards that in no way I reject the mediation effort.

Comment

A quick comment to the statement below by Piotrus. There are no examples of incivility brought by anyone (yet) to this page, including Piotrus himself who claims the degree of incivility warrants the ArbCom intervention. It is difficult to tell what exactly Piotrus means here but since no examples are assume he means that the ArbCom members should set aside a little time and read this and related talk pages to decide whether there was a arbcomable amount of incivility and whose incivility that was. I know ArbCom is a busy committee but if this is indeed doable, I would only welcome their attention. --Irpen 05:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment by Piotrus

The content part of this dispute certainly is not the issue for the ArbCom. However if incivility and other disruptive behaviour took place, it should be analyzed; particulary as with fall of PAIN and RFI it is much more hard to control such behaviour. And if some parties who are guilty of it here are the same who come up in other cases (like mentioned Latvia case), I think ArbCom should consider doing something about such repeated offenders: looking over Romania case, I certainly see disruption by some people whose behaviour has been condemned by both past ArbCom cases, and in other DR proceedings.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  03:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment by Anonimu

I'm still trying to understand how arbitration works, so for now, I'll just comment on the statement by User:Biruitorul. I dispute the neutrality of the "3rd opinion". The main reason is that the request for a 3rd option included a personal attack against me (i.e. "Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views -- regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream or extreme." See WP:NPA). Second it surely wasn't a "a short, neutral description of the disagreement", since the comment tried to impose a certain POV. Anyway, I consider the 3rd opinion given irrelevant to the discussion. As for the mediation, the uncalled-for personal attacks from one of the parts involved (on an unrelated subject) made me refuse it.Anonimu 18:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Further comments

First, even if I assume good faith, I reserve the right to doubt the sincerity of Biruitorul's second statement. Second, I consider the 3rd opinion given (which I still deem non-neutral) not relevant to the dispute. Third, I fail to understand why Biruitorul considers the tag "disruptive, baseless", especially since, in his first comment, he acknowledges the existence of an ongoing dispute. Fourth, I want the anti-communist bias present in Birutiorul's statement to be noted, considering the subject of the disputed article.Anonimu 20:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/2/0/1)

• Would it be possible for you guys to just read through Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Occupation of Latvia and then settle this like kind and thoughtful Wikipedians? Kirill Lokshin 17:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reject. Seems mostly to be a content dispute. - SimonP 13:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept to consider edit warring over tags and provide guidance on content issues. Fred Bauder 17:49, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Decline. Paul August ☎ 20:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

NYScholar

Initiated by Notmyrealname at 22:48, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Involved parties

• Notmyrealname (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Jayjg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Humus sapiens (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Crockspot (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• NYScholar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) --NYScholar 09:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
• Fermat1999 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) --NYScholar 09:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
• Hornplease (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) --NYScholar 08:57, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
• Wassermann (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) --NYScholar 09:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
• Quatloo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) --NYScholar 09:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

- I am aware. Crockspot 23:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

: See User talk:NYScholar/Archive 4#ArbCom/Lewis Libby; Temple Rodef Shalom. where I have posted my response and updated and archived the notification; my shorter statement posted below. --NYScholar 08:23, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

- I am aware now Fermat1999 15:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

- I am aware, and have commented briefly below. Hornplease 00:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

-- Aware, responded. Quatloo 13:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Scroll down to "Lewis Libby" and click on "show" to see the content of this notice: it was declared "inactive" by administrator in both incarnations. --NYScholar 15:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Scroll down to "Lewis Libby" and click on "show" to see the content of this notice: it was declared "inactive" by administrator in both incarnations. --NYScholar 01:13, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Biographies: Scroll down to "Lewis Libby"; two filed within 10 mins. of each other; a prev. RFC filed even earlier resulted in no comments at all (see editing histories and talk page archives in Talk:Lewis Libby --NYScholar 13:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Notmyrealname

NYScholar has made it impossible to have a civil discussion regarding identifying Lewis Libby as Jewish, whether to include various Jewish category labels to Libby, and whether to include Libby as the sole identified member of the Temple Rodef Shalom. Fermat1999 also made inappropriate entries on the Temple page, but NYScholar has repeatedly engaged in behavior that violates WP:OWN, WP:NPA, WP:BLP, among others. He has rejected my previous attempt of mediation, rejected the result of an rfa on the Libby talk page, and made personal attacks against myself and others on NYScholar's talk page, on my talk page, and on the Libby talk page. I have made several efforts to involve other editors into the original dispute by posting twice on the WP:BLPN page, and by encouraging other neutral editors to weigh in. An administrator that blocked NYScholar for a 3RR violation (and extended the block due to continued abusive edits by NYScholar) suggested that I bring this to arbitration.Notmyrealname 20:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

To be clear, I am not seeking arbitration regarding the labeling of Libby as Jewish or not, but rather about NYScholar's conduct that has prevented everyone from being able to reach consensus on this issue. These actions include hundreds of edits per week (often per day), name calling and personal attacks against me and others (his recently archived talk page contains excellent examples), conspiracy theorizing, edit warring (including actions that led to a recent block), a rejection of the outcome of an rfc, and a refusal to engage in peaceful debate either on the relevant talk pages or through mediation. Additionally, I and several other editors are concerned that one of his main arguments in the content debate has been that the issue of Libby's Jewishness is relevant due to the fact that he was involved with US policy towards Israel, and his insistence in including Libby as the sole entry in a list of members of his Temple. Notmyrealname 22:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Crockspot

I'm really only peripherally involved with this dispute. I am sure that I have removed Jewish categories from the article, citing WP:BLP, but I couldn't tell you when the last time was. I have made comments on the talk page regarding the use of religious categories as well. I haven't been paying much attention there lately, I'm working on other wiki stuff right now. But I am surprised that this dispute is still going on. Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons#Use of categories is unambiguous. To continually violate it should result in a block for the user. It's a pretty cut and dried case. Not much else I can say. - Crockspot 00:03, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

• Addition to statement - For me, the only question here is this: Has the subject ever publicly self-identified as Jewish? I don't believe he ever has. If not, then we can't call him a Jew on Misplaced Pages. That's the current policy. It's really as simple as that. - Crockspot 16:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by NYScholar

I have just seen this heading; the user is engaged in a personal vendetta that she/he seems unable to let go of. I have pointed out these problems before way back on 25 Feb. 2007]: see my archived talk page 4 (linked below) for the history.] I changed the heading of this arbitration request to focus on the content of articles rather than on contributors. Having reviewed the block history of some of the administrators involved in disputes concerning subjects relating to Jewish topics and particularly to Israel, I have noticed that they remove one another's blocks and engage in trying to block users who disagree with them. I strongly suggest that any administrators involved in this arbitration request not also be involved in editing articles on those subjects so as to preserve neutrality and impartiality, so as not to violate WP:Neutral point of view and WP:POV in these articles. So far it appears that truly "neutral" editors and/or truly "neutral" administrators have not been "weighing in" on this content dispute. By repeatedly appealing in talk pages to clearly non-neutral administrators and clearly non-neutral users, Notmyrealname has not been seeking out Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view; instead, the user has been seeking out users who already agree with her/his POV and repeatedly rejecting the arguments of those disagreeing with him/her (See linked archive 10 of the BLP Noticeboard on Lewis Libby). I moved my full statement to my archived talk page 4: User talk:NYScholar/Archive 4#Archived fuller statement of response to the ArbCom; it provides links to various relevant talk page discussions. --NYScholar 11:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I saw this change of the heading after spending a lot of time working on additional sources in the talk page for further improvement of the article. This user has apparently no interest in the subject of the articles themselves, and is intent only on persisting in this personal attack on another contributor, in this case me. I find this further attempt to do so outrageous. The user is unable to abide by the previous lack of support in the BLP noticeboard, and is now trying this method. --NYScholar 13:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

. This so-called "arbitration request" is clearly premature, since this other request is still open and unresolved. This user has not disclosed (in the section on "other steps" above) that this Members' Advocates request exists and is still open and unresolved prior to the filing of this (I think premature and highly inaccurate, misleading, and self-serving) so-called "arbitration request" focusing on another contributor (me). As the other "interested parties" whom I have added (not added by Notmyrealname) comment in their statements and talk pages, the matter concerns a long-standing editing content dispute, not me. Notmyrealname seems unable to acknowledge this fact, as her/his own emendation of the request indicates. --NYScholar 17:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)]

Statement by Fermat1999

While I have not always agreed with NYScholar (in terms of including Libby's temple membership for example), I think some of his hyperediting and frustration has been caused by undue harrassment and even trolling by , and . In particular, not so subtle suggestions of anti-semitism with no proof, and at times remarkable rude comments and personal attacks. A simple review of the history will show that.

Much like Tony Judt, I almost feel like I should disclose my background before I type further, even though I had no desire to originally. I don't consider myself jewish at all, but ethnically from my father's side I am, and I did do both church stuff and reform temple stuff as a kid. I also went to camp as a kid, and birthright as a teen. I of course support Israel's existence, but my politics have strong sympathies for palestinian rights, and I am strongly anti-war. Full disclosure. I try to be very non-biased in my editing, and previous to registering recently, primarily edited medical articles or pop culture on a semi-occasional basis.

What I thought was a harmless honest biographical comment on Libby being jewish has turned into a wiki nightmare. I remember being in early undergrad and having to verbally spar with friends who jokingly talked about a jewish conspiracy. While I knew they were joking, it still pissed me off deep down. But the relentless censoring in this case, is the type of behaviour that probably fuels such idiotic conspiracies. Here we have a politician that is powerful, involved in policymaking in Israel, and indicted for the crime of perjury, and somehow the fact that he is jewish is deemed 'not notable'? Virtually EVERY major politician has their religion and ethnicity noted. Gonzalez, Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice, ad nauseum for example. But in this case, with reliable documentation of Libby's ethnicity/religion, it is continiously being removed. And not only that, but those that support the inclusion of such information are being tagged as anti-semitic, initially indirectly and more recently directly. That is simply intolerable, and unfortunately such slander can lead to people to respond back with strong emotions. That is what I think has occured to nyscholar, and to some degree myself.

Lastly, I think some sort of audit needs to be done on jayjg in particular. His behaviour has crossed the line on what I think is reasonable administrator behaviour. I feel a bit guilty critisizing a longstanding member, being relatively new myself (at least in registered form), but I think to many NON RACIST and REASONABLE members of wikipedia, he has been amazingly hostile and rude. This is not to say that I myself can't improve. We all can strive to be better people I suppose.

To finish off, I never commented on the TEMPLE PAGE EVER. Not one edit. Anywhere. I never agreed with the inclusion of the Temple comment, and have stated that previously in the Libby article. Not sure where Notmyrealname came up with that total untruth, but I hope it helps explain some of the frustration some of us editors have had with Notmyrealname, jayjg and humus sapiens. Fermat1999 16:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Quatloo

I became aware of this issue only after reading about it on the BLP noticeboard, and I do not have involvement in editing articles on Jewish or political topics, with the exception that I once voted for keeping a category on Jewish Fencers because of the special relationship between those two groups (though I think I would vote against other Jewish sports categories unless such a situation existed also for that sport). I do have a general interest in BLP policy and in copyright. Some observations:

The fact that Libby is Jewish is supported by a reliable source, namely the Tulsa Jewish Review. That publication has been published continuously for over 70 years. In the point of Libby's case it is very specific to identify his temple. There are additional online sources for Libby's Jewishness which are not reliable, and I have noticed that editors will indicate those, and attempt to argue that the sources do not meet WP:RS. But the Tulsa Jewish Review meets WP:RS (it gives no requirement that the source not be regional or provincial, and indeed such a requirement would be absurd), and the question is moot. One cannot argue for exclusion of the fact based on its source.

We are thus reduced to the question, under BLP: Is this information germane to the article? The religion of all high government officials (elected or not, it makes no difference) ought to be included in the article. Religious issues often impact on questions of policy, and this is one of the most important pieces of background information on an individual. If reliably known it should be included. But even if one were to disagree with that postulation, the question boils down to: For a person involved in policymaking regarding Israel (as Libby definitely is), how can we possibly omit the fact that he is Jewish?

Any analysis beyond mere statement of religious affiliation would require citation of highly reliable sources. But statement alone does not require additional proof of relevance -- involvement in policymaking makes it relevant.

For this specific dispute, I am not familiar with the parties involved (I do not monitor the article in question), but if someone is forcing the deliberate omission or removal of this information from Libby's article, it is likely agenda-driven and that person should probably be stopped. As for the article on Temple Rodef Shalom itself, I express no opinion other than it is possible/likely the article lacks sufficient notability to warrant an entry in Misplaced Pages. Quatloo 13:04, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Statement by Hornplease

I frequently review the BLP noticeboard, but was moved to intervene in this article following the posting of an RFC. My involvement in this is as best minimal, however, for reasons I discuss below.

My first statement was to point out that self-identification was central. In the absence of self-identification, a living individual cannot be categorised as belonging to a particular religion, or, indeed, identified as such in WP's voice. I feel very strongly about this; I have spent a lot of valuable time in the past keeping dubious religious identification out of political articles. (After one tiresome exchange with the now blocked Bakasuprman over Jyotiraditya Scindia, I had to go on extended wikibreak to recover my peace of mind.) I further stated that the linked article from the Israeli press clearly stated that prominent academics - Joshua Muravchik, whom I know and respect - thought that Libby's Jewishness was irrelevant to his status as a neocon. Given that, I was doubtful about the addition.

NYScholar's response to this was perfectly courteous, and indicated that he thought that membership in a temple, if a matter of public record, was tantamount to self-identification; and if reliable sources discuss a connection between notability and background, even if to dismiss it, it is encyclopaedic to note that. (I presume that the dismissal would be similarly noted).

The conversation moved on, to my surprise, to whether NYScholar was yellow-badging. This isnt a pleasant accusation. I tried to steer the conversation back to the point that was raised - is public membership of a religious organisation tantamount to self-identification? - as that is a question of profound importance to other articles. I asked Jay, who had brought up the yellow-badging, to comment on this issue, as I value his opinion on this precedent, but asked him to keep it civil.

This didnt go down well. "A rather odd thing to request; perhaps you can lead by demonstrating it in the first place". Err. That got rid of me pretty quickly.

Overall, I'd like to say that this looks less like ownership and more like a user that is convinced of the applicability of a particular fact on this page; and that he should be encouraged to discuss policy more carefully. He doesnt seem to have a problem with incivility as an automatic reflex.

I would like to add my voice to that of others on the page indicating that shutting down discussion by readily flinging around accusations isnt helpful; and I, personally, decided not to edit the page further as I didnt want to be accused even tangentially by Jay of being anti-Semitic. As a distinctly philo-Semitic person, that kind of thing hurts.

If the problem was NYScholar's excessive energy in thousands of edits to the talkpage before anyone has a chance to reply, I would like to point out that there are many other people who do that kind of thing, and some of them are represented on this page.

I urge ArbCom to take this up.

Clerk notes

• Per advice of an arbitrator, this request is still being reviewed. Clerks please do not remove until requested, even if 10 days since filing have elapsed. Newyorkbrad 03:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
• Four net votes to open the case, noted. Will be opened absent a change in the near future. Newyorkbrad 16:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (5/1/0/0)

• Decline as premature. Postings on the BLP noticeboard are not part of the dispute resolution process; please pursue one of the preliminary steps before bringing this to arbitration. Kirill Lokshin 15:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept, as the previous steps have apparently been pursued, and are merely not properly linked here. Kirill Lokshin 22:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept. FloNight 15:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 13:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
• Reject. I don't see useful results coming from this. --jpgordon 05:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept Fred Bauder 02:39, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Accept Paul August ☎ 03:26, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Requests for clarification

Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process. Place new requests at the top.

Request for modification of remedy in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Tony Sidaway

In this arbitration case, I was placed on general probation. Initially highly upset at the remedy, I left Misplaced Pages for several months. I have since returned, and for the most part, the probation was not a serious problem. Today, however, it happened to come up in a discussion on a completely unrelated issue. I feel that the subsequent results were unproductive. I don't want to have a general probation hanging over my head forever to be brought up by someone any and every time I am involved in a discussion over Misplaced Pages policy or user conduct. I would like to learn what I need to do for the ArbCom to lift the probation. Obviously, if the arbitrators are willing to do so at this time, it would be most appreciated; but, if they feel that such a modification would not currently be appropriate for whatever reason, I would like some advice as to what specific action(s) I need to take in order to regain community trust and have this punishment removed. --Crotalus horridus 01:35, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• What was the context in which the probation was brought up? You've been on probation for a year now; that seems a long time to me, and the whole "userbox" fuss seems quite over. --jpgordon 15:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

See this ANI thread. Newyorkbrad 16:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• Crotalus horridus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thatcher131 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

As a side note, Newyorkbrad was very helpful as an ad hoc mediator during the AN/I incident, and he deserves commendation for keeping a cool head, assuming good faith on all sides, and helping to defuse a volatile situation. User:Crotalus horridus 17:59, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I hope the arbitration committee will take this seriously. Notwithstanding my reaction to a recent edit by Crotalus on an admin page, I've no idea whether his formerly problematic behavior continues to be a serious risk. Crotalus horridus has apologised gracefully and I consider the matter closed.

I've not interacted with Crotalus, to my recollection, in over a year, but looking at his talk page I notice this warning from RHaworth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), just over a month ago, about Crotalus' creation of an article (now deleted) apparently called Brian Peppers in popular culture. After a year of almost complete inactivity on Misplaced Pages, Crotalus had resumed regular editing one week before. One of his first edits was this Brian Peppers-related edit. It's entirely possible that he didn't fully recollect the Brian Peppers situation. He doesn't seem to have pursued the matter after receiving RHaworth's warning. The block log also indicates a single recent block, under the Misplaced Pages:Three revert rule, apparently for edit warring on Racism. --Tony Sidaway 15:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your statement, Tony. Your summary of my recent activity is accurate, although I would also appreciate if the ArbCom would take note of the work I have done on articles such as Silver center cent (a current GA nominee), and 1913 Liberty Head Nickel, as well as on various other articles (most of them uncontroversial). As for the 3RR block, I allowed myself to get sucked into a nasty edit war, and that was clearly a mistake. I've decided to keep a distance from such controversial articles for a while, to avoid a recurrance. User:Crotalus horridus 17:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• Can we assume good faith here? The editor has been on probation for a year, but in his own words he has been away for much of it. In the time he's been here, he's been mucking about with Brian Peppers - a subject that has been a magnet for much disruption and trolling. Maybe he knew nothing of the debate and contention there and spontaneously, innocently and coincidentally decided to add stuff about Peppers, or maybe he was engaging the the same deliberately provocative behaviour that got him put on probation in the first place. Fortunately, arbcom and not I get to make that call.--Doc 15:50, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Doc, the primary reason I created the article is that I wanted to examine current community consensus and to determine whether it was possible to mention the subject in any encyclopedic context in a way that would be acceptable to the community. It was deleted, I posted to DRV, and the motion was rejected; the community has made its wishes clear that Peppers not be mentioned, and I have no intention of revisiting the issue in the future. I do not believe my behavior in this matter was disruptive; it was not intended to be so and no disruption took place, just a normal discussion on DRV. User:Crotalus horridus 17:59, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

It is more normal to discern community consensus by discussion, not by conducting two breeching experiments.--Doc 18:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I note that Crotalus has taken almost a year off (very few edits between April 2006 and March 2007). I suggest a similar motion to the one recently approved for SPUI in the Highways case, allowing the probation to expire 6 months from Crotalus' return to active editing (i.e. now) or 6 months from the last enforcement action under the probation, whichever is later. Thatcher131 16:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

That's fine with me. I have no intention of starting any trouble. User:Crotalus horridus 17:59, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me. Having Crotalus contributing properly can only be a win. Redemption should always be on offer.--Doc 19:36, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

If one of you (Thatcher131?) would draft such a motion, I'll put it in the "motions" section below. --jpgordon 19:03, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

How's this: Since Crotalus horridus has indicated a desire to return to productive editing, as an encouragement, his probation shall terminate six months from now, or from the last enforcement action, whichever is the later. --Doc 20:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

That could be read to inadvertently imply a finding that his recent editing has not been productive. I suggest simply "Crotalus horridus' probation shall terminate six months from the date of this motion or the date of the last enforcement action, if any, under his probation, whichever is later." Newyorkbrad 20:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not implying that - I'm stating it. But since the effect of your wording is the same, i've no objections.--Doc 20:33, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't think the arbitrators will need or want to get into the middle of whether characterizing the quality of Crotalus's editing over the past month as disruptive or not. Suffice it to say to Crotalus that, as he seems now to realize, it would be best for him to steer clear of edits that could raise such an issue. Newyorkbrad 20:41, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Request for additional remedy in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Moby Dick

• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Trey Stone and Davenbelle
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Moby Dick
• Commons block rationale of Pfctdayelise
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Diyarbakir

In its decision of August 13, 2006 in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Moby Dick, the Arbitration Committee found that Moby Dick had harassed Cool Cat. The remedies included a prohibition of further harassment as well as topic-ban of Moby Dick from editing articles concerning Turkey or Kurdish issues. Reference was made to a prior case finding that Davenbelle also harassed Cool Cat, and the decision implies a finding that Davenbelle and Moby Dick were the same user.

Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Diyarbakir finds that Diyarbakir is a sockpuppet of Moby Dick. WP:AE#User:MobyDick finds that Diyarbakir (i.e., Moby Dick) has harassed Cool Cat by repeatedly stalking and reverting his edits and has edited Kurdish-related articles in violation of the topic ban. As a result, Thatcher131 blocked Moby Dick for two weeks.

To prevent further attempts at evading the remedies against Moby Dick, I request that ArbCom enact an additional remedy requiring Moby Dick to edit from only one account. This type of remedy has been used several times in the past and I believe it is appropriate here. Newyorkbrad 16:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

• Is that editor doing something useful that outweighs his evident inability to keep from harassing Cool Cat? This has been going on for over two years now. --Tony Sidaway 20:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• I have to second what Tony says...enough is enough.--MONGO 20:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• If it has to be spelled out that sockpuppetry isn't allowed to break rules (much less harassing others), then so be it. - Penwhale | 01:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
• To summarise the cases, Davenbelle made a nuisance of himself on the political articles and got banned from those, then he harassed Cool Cat and was told that "If subsequent proceedings which involve Cool Cat show that he has been hounded by them, substantial penalties may be imposed." So he turns up a while later as Moby Dick, harasses Cool Cat again, as well as Megaman Zero, then gets identified as Davenbelle and is banned from Turkey and Kurdish issues and banned from harassing Cool Cat, Megaman Zero, and other users in general. Now he's back and socking again, breaking his topic ban and harassing Cool Cat. At this stage it's obvious that he's determined to circumvent any sanction, so the ultimate, an arbitration committee one year ban followed permanent general probation, would be merited in my opinion. The arbitration committee's promise of "substantial penalties", made nearly two years ago now, must be made good. --Tony Sidaway 03:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

  I have added links to the individual debates over Davenbelle's behavior. Davenbelle/Moby Dick was also "active" on commons. I also feel User:Moby Dick should be treated as a sockpuppet of Davenbelle. -- Cat 19:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Motions in prior cases

(Only Arbitrators may make and vote on such motions. Other editors may comment on the talk page)

Modification of remedy in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Tony Sidaway

Crotalus horridus' probation shall terminate six months from the date of the acceptance this motion or the date of the last enforcement action, if any, under his probation, whichever is later.

Clerk note: There are presently 11 active arbitrators, so a majority is 6. Newyorkbrad 20:52, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Support:

1. So moved. See above for discussion. --jpgordon 20:46, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
2. Support after reading the above discussion. Good luck, Crotalus horridus. Hope the next six months are uneventful and you are off probation then. FloNight 20:53, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
3. Paul August ☎ 03:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Oppose:

1. Fred Bauder 01:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Abstain:

Archives

• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Completed requests
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Rejected requests (extremely sparse, selective, and unofficial)