Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Deglr6328 (talk | contribs) at 16:33, 4 May 2005 (→"Creationist Response"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Note that I removed references to the idea that abiogenesis (in the modern sense) does not occur in the modern world. For all we know (well, for all I know; biologists may feel free to correct me) abiogenesis occurs constantly, and is generally unobserved because the new proto-life immediately becomes food for existing life. -- April

This still needs lots of work, but I'm increasingly unsure of my ground here. I'll leave this awhile in case a biologist may be tempted to do a better revision, and if not, come back to it after more reading-up on the topic. -- April 04:01 Sep 7, 2002 (UTC)

Is there a reason for using the term Aristolian instead of Aristotelian? Someone else

• Naw, if Aristotelian is the preferred term, by all means change it. -- April

Thing about Abiogenesis is, you need to define non-life before you can have life come from it. So, if you prove that nothing is non-living, you disprove abiogenesis. You also have to define life to have it come from non-life, in which case life would have to be something that really exists (not an illusion) in order for abiogenesis to have occured.

The trouble with making these definitions is, the words are still used as questions, not answers. We know some things are alive and some aren't, but we still don't know the exact difference. Living things can and do reproduce, but we have no proof that supposedly non-living things wouldn't, given the right circumstances.

There are things we can say about scientific observations of life, however. Life is apparently a state that certain combinations of matter can be in. Life is shaped into organisms, of a cellular nature. These organisms are composed of smaller mechanoids, including mechanoids for making other mechanoids. All known life is based on the RNA/DNA molecule, with supporting and resulting protiens and lipids.

If something was discovered to be analogous to life, but not based on RNA/DNA/protien, would it be called life? Our macroscopic robotics and computers come close. A nanomachine soup could come closer, perhaps. But robots and nanobots are hardly aboigenic themselves.

Merged some material with origin of life article

I think this article should this be merged with origin of life. The historical part can easily be part of that article, and the modern stuff overlaps with what is on that page right now in any case. --Lexor 19:25, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Actually, I have modified my position. I think it should probably be left as a separate page, since it is a slightly more general concept and has a history of its own. I have taken the liberty to move most of the "modern abiogenesis" stuff which is almost exclusively about the origin of life and merge it with the origin of life article, but have left a summary and a Main article: pointer here.

--Lexor 12:05, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Paragraph removed by anonymous IP address (not by me). --Lexor|Talk 10:13, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

If abiogenesis is found impossible, this would seem to disprove both evolutionary and religious explanations of the origin of life, and would support the idea that life has always existed. The only remaining point would be whether or not life is modified by nature, as claimed by evolutionists, or not, as claimed by many religions

Proposal to Merge this page into Biopoiesis

I would like to know how you folks feel about merging abiogenesis into biopoiesis. This term carries less historical baggage and seems to be favored over abiogenesis in some situations. --Viriditas 11:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I prefer to leave it abiogenesis where it is (it gets around 18,000 hits: abiogenesis), and I think that biopoiesis should be merged with origin of life, it only gets 91 hits on Google: biopoiesis. With two sentences I can't really see it being expanded. --Lexor|Talk 11:45, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Google_test. "...the google test checks popular usage, not correctness." For some good links on the history and differences between the two words, see this link and this link. Biopoiesis has been used in place of abiogenesis by a number of researchers involved in origins related work. OTOH, abiogenesis has connotations of spontaneous generation, and it currently bears the weight of two different definitions, thus leading to ambiguity. I am therefore suggesting that abiogenesis should refer to spontaneous generation while biogenesis should be used to refer to its current definition regarding the origin of life.. IMO, I doubt that a google hit ranking will reflect this difference in any way, as most of the journals, articles, and textbooks that use these definitions are not online. When I have some more time I will try to present some further evidence for the proposed merge. In my proposal, the article for abiogenesis would still exist but it would not refer to the more modern implication of biopoiesis, just spontaneous generation. Thanks in advance for your response. --Viriditas 01:40, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

scientific view?

Brig Klyce proposes Cosmic ancestry which is a theory that intelligent life, through some natural mechanism, effectively began at the same time as the universe.

How is this a scientific view? It seems like a fantastic hypothesis. -- Temtem 16:12, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

May we need a section titled "Philosophical Critique of Abiogenesis." -- Temtem 16:16, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

More like "fantasies about the origins of life". Also notice that Klyce proposes an idea, not a theory. At any rate, I removed mention of both Klyce and Crick, since the paragraphs offered their opinions about origins, but didn't actually offer any criticism of the theory (as per the name of that section). — B.Bryant 17:22, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Creationist Response"

An anonymous user added a section called "Creationist Response", which I removed. I removed it for a few reasons: one, it is written in an informal, personal style; two, Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox (and it is highly POV), and three, I don't believe the material belongs here. More detailed message left at anon's talk page. — Knowledge Seeker দ 16:04, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Response: I re-edited it and put it back up. I did so because what is said is based on sound logic and the facts of science -- as the Links clearly indicate.

Reverted again, has no place in this article. Just because you want something to be scientific sounding doesn't make it so and this certainly is NOT science. --Deglr6328 16:33, 4 May 2005 (UTC)