Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Estland

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Estland

This page is ~~not linked from any main namespace article as it is~~ misnamed. 'Estland' used to be one of old names for Estonia, derived from German. This article was apparently originally created to push the WP:POV that there existed an Estonian state on Estonian territory prior to the Republic of Estonia, which is incorrect; now, this has been removed and all that remains is historical data which is already available in History of Estonia. Digwuren 22:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following redirection pages:

I fixed the AfD discussion for you; you forgot to replace "PageName" with the name of the page. Ten Pound Hammer • 22:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes I did. I clicked 'Save page' too early ... Digwuren 22:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Why are you not listing those four redirects on redirects for deletion?--Dhartung | Talk 08:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I was not aware I should do that. Digwuren 03:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

They are now listed. Digwuren 03:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Speedy keep. What do you mean it's misnamed and so forth? It's clearly linked to from many other pages. I see no reason to delete it. Ten Pound Hammer • 22:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Merge to Estonia, now that I know the truth per User:Valentinian. Ten Pound Hammer • 23:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Everything useful that is currently in Estland appears to have been merged into History of Estonia already. Digwuren 00:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

With the possible exception of the links regarding the Anvelt's revolution. These, too, should be reviewed and merged. Digwuren 00:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

It appears I was mistaken. When I first used 'What links here', all I saw were various groupings and categories, not main articles.

I will go through the mistaken references and redirect them to Estonia instead. Digwuren 22:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I have completed this task. There weren't many references. Digwuren 22:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Delete. I've long wondered why this one remained about, and it contains nothing that isn't better contained in History of Estonia. Both this article and the Kingdom of Livonia was created by socks of the same banned user, but the difference is that Kingdom of Livonia theoretically could have potential, now that we've got rid of some of its worst excesses. Valentinian 22:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Btw, "Estland" is simply the German, Danish and Swedish name for "Estonia". Valentinian 22:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

And I don't see the harm in the Litauen redirect to Lithuania. It is simply the German and Scandinavian name. For that matter, Estland could simply be converted to redirect to Estonia by the same criterion. Valentinian 23:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not knowledgeable enough regarding Litauen, but there's a significant problem with Estland. Specifically, it can refer to the historical Estland region (known for a while as the Revel Governorate), or the current Estonia, which includes former Estland and parts of former Livonia. Furthermore, I do not consider disambiguation the proper way to resolve this issue, as disambiguation loses context. Instead, every link should explicitly refer to whatever is proper (which I tried to achieve). It helps that 'Estland' is not actively being used in English. Digwuren 00:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, my bad, I misunderstood. Ten Pound Hammer • 23:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

No, it was my bad. I botched the deletion proposal, causing confusion to happen. I apologise. Digwuren 00:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Redirect to Estonia alternate name (German, Swedish). Carlossuarez46 00:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

And Danish, Norwegian, and Faroese ;) Valentinian 00:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I redirected Eestimaa, Duchy of Estland and Eestimaa Hertsogiriik to Estonia. As for Estland, all of its contents is in other articles already. Change to redirect - or disambiguation page, as there is "Estland" is also the name of a phantom island on the Zeno map" DLX 04:08, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Delete. 'Estland' should, as of now, most probably redirect to 'Estonia', and the subject matter merged to articles about the history of Estonia, where applicable. As for the source of the confusion, perhaps an altogether separate article would be in order to explain the various current and historical usage patterns of the terms Est- and Liv- / -s, -onia, -onians, ("-land"), etc. Cheers, --3 Löwi 05:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Delete unreferenced original research/POV and redirect to Estonia. --Dhartung | Talk 08:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Delete and redirect. Simply the name for Estonia in most Germanic languages except English. JdeJ 19:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I have pondered, and I am fine with making Estland into a disambiguation page. I still believe the others ought to be deleted, though.

Stop this madness – if necessary, by administrator action!

This thing is real – and it is not the same as Estonia. It also has separate articles in Estonian (Eestimaa), Russian (Эстляндия)and Dutch (Estland (gebied)) Wikipedias.
The Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition from 1911 calls this entry “Esthonia”.

Esthonia corresponds to the territories of Danish Estonia, Principality of Estland, Swedish Estonia and the Imperial Russian Reval Governorate.

Before 1917 the current territory of Estonia consisted of “Estland” and the northern part of Livonia. According to EB1911, in 1897 365,959 Estonians lived in Esthonia, and 518,594 in Livonia. After the February Revolution of 1917 these areas were merged and a national parliament created.

I really do not know what this article should be called in the English language Misplaced Pages. English does not seem to be able to distinguish between the state and the province. It could be better to rename this to Estonia (province) or Eestimaa (Estland in Estonian), but no proposal has been made.
It seems evident that this proposal was made in bad faith.
The nominator claimed that the article was “not linked from any main namespace article”. In fact the article had about 30 incoming wikilinks; these were all removed by the nominator on May 23, between 22 and 23 UTC.

Also, most of the content of the article was removed before the AfD nomination; none of it has been merged to any other article. Here is the original, here the defaced version. I will try to restore the article and possibly improve, but I am afraid it will immediately be vandalized.
The real reason for the deletion proposal is an on going effort by Estonian nationalist to rewrite Estonian history, both on and off Misplaced Pages. The “provocative” content of this article was the (now removed) section on the socialist revolution in Estonia and the resulting Bolshevist state. Nationalist believe that any information on these slimy commie revolutionaries may give rise to the thought that Estonian communist had something to do with the events of 1940, not just the Soviet tanks and artillery. This is of course a very dangerous form on Soviet occupation denialism and must be expunged from Misplaced Pages!

-- Petri Krohn 04:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

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