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See Misplaced Pages:Categories for deletion policies for the official rules of this page, and how to do cleanup.

Deletion of a category may mean that the articles and images in it are directly put in its parent category, or that another subdivision of the parent category is made. If they are already members of more suitable categories, it may also mean that they become a member of one category less.

Deletion tools
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How to use this page

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Special notes

Some categories may be listed in Category:Categories for deletion but accidently not listed here.

Old discussions from this page have been archived to:

In light of various new policies, some /unresolved disputes will be re-listed here in the near future.

See also meta-discussion going on at Misplaced Pages talk:Categories for deletion phrases regarding the content of the {{cfd}} template, and about advisory/non-advisory phrases to be used on this "Categories for deletion" page.

Speedy renaming and merging

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This page has a backlog that requires the attention of willing editors.
Please remove this notice when the backlog is cleared.

Speedy renaming or speedy merging of categories may be requested only if they meet a speedy criterion, for example WP:C2D (consistency with main article's name) or WP:C2C (consistency with established category tree names). Please see instructions below.

  1. Determine which speedy criterion applies
  2. Tag category page with {{subst:cfr-speedy|New name}} or {{subst:cfm-speedy|Merge target}}
  3. List request along with speedy criteria reason under "Current requests" below on this page

Please note that a speedy request must state which of the narrowly defined criteria strictly applies. Hence, any other non-speedy criteria, even "common sense" or "obvious", may be suitable points, but only at a full discussion at WP:Categories for discussion.

Requests may take 48 hours to process after listing if there are no objections. This delay allows other users to review the request to ensure that it meets the speedy criteria for speedy renaming or merging, and to raise objections to the proposed change.

Categories that qualify for speedy deletion (per Misplaced Pages:Criteria for speedy deletion, e.g., "patent nonsense", "recreation") can be tagged with the regular speedy tags, such as {{db|reason}} with no required delay. Empty categories can be deleted if they remain empty 7 days after tagging with {{db-empty}}. Renaming under C2E may also be processed instantly (at the discretion of an administrator) as it is a variation on G7.

To oppose a speedy request you must record your objection within 48 hours of the nomination. Do this by inserting immediately under the nomination:

  • Oppose, (the reasons for your objection). ~~~~

You will not be able to do this by editing the page WP:Categories for discussion. Instead, you should edit the section WP:Categories for discussion#Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here or the page WP:Categories for discussion/Speedy#Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here (WP:CFDS). Be aware that in the course of any discussion, the nomination and its discussion may get moved further down the page purely for organizational convenience – you may need to search WP:CFDS to find the new location. Participate in any ongoing discussion, but unless you withdraw your opposition, a knowledgeable person may eventually bring forward the nomination and discussion to become a regular CFD discussion. At that stage you may add further comments, but your initial opposition will still be considered. However, if after seven days there has been no support for the request, and no response from the nominator, the request may be dropped from further consideration as a speedy.

Contested speedy requests become stale, and can be untagged and delisted after 7 days of inactivity. Optionally, if the discussion may be useful for future reference, it may be copied to the category talk page, with a section heading and {{moved discussion from|]|2=~~~~}}. If the nominator wants to revive the process, this may be requested at WP:Categories for discussion (CfD) in accordance with its instructions.

If you belatedly notice and want to oppose a speedy move that has already been processed, contact one of the admins who process the Speedy page. If your objection seems valid, they may reverse the move, or start a full CFD discussion.

Speedy criteria

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The category-specific criteria for speedy renaming, or merging are strictly limited to:

C2A: Typographic and spelling fixes

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  • Correction of spelling errors and capitalization fixes. Differences between British and American spelling (e.g. Harbours → Harbors) are not considered errors; however if the convention of the relevant category tree is to use one form over the other then a rename may be appropriate under C2C. If both spellings exist as otherwise-identical category names, they should be merged.
  • Appropriate conversion of hyphens into en dashes or vice versa (e.g. Category:Canada-Russia relations → Category:Canada–Russia relations).
  • Correction of obvious grammatical errors, such as a missing conjunction (e.g. Individual frogs toads → Individual frogs and toads). This includes pluralizing a noun in the name of a set category, but not when disagreement might reasonably be anticipated as to whether the category is a topic or set category.

C2B: Consistency with established Misplaced Pages naming conventions and practices

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C2C: Consistency with established category tree names

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Bringing a category into line with established naming conventions for that category tree, or into line with the various "x by y", "x of y", or "x in y" categorization conventions specified at Misplaced Pages:Category names

  • This should be used only where there is no room for doubt that the category in question is being used for the standard purpose instead of being a potential subcategory.
  • This criterion should be applied only when there is no ambiguity or doubt over the existence of a category naming convention. Such a convention must be well defined and must be overwhelmingly used within the tree. If this is not the case then the category in question must be brought forward to a full Cfd nomination.
  • This criterion will not apply in cases where the category tree observes distinctions in local usage (e.g. Category:Transportation in the United States and Category:Transport in the United Kingdom).

C2D: Consistency with main article's name

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  • Renaming a topic category to match its eponymous page (e.g. Category:The Beatles and The Beatles).
  • This applies only if the related page's current name (and by extension, the proposed name for the category) is:
    • unambiguous (so it generally does not apply to proposals to remove a disambiguator from the category name, even when the main article is the primary topic of its name, i.e. it does not contain a disambiguator); and
    • uncontroversial, either because of longstanding stability at that particular name, or because the page was just moved (i) after a page move discussion resulted in explicit consensus to rename, or (ii) unilaterally to reflect an official renaming which is verified by one or more citations (provided in the nomination). C2D does not apply if the result would be contrary to guidelines at WP:CATNAME, or there is any ongoing discussion about the name of the page or category, or there has been a recent discussion concerning any of the pages that resulted in a no consensus result, or it is controversial in some other way.
  • This criterion may also be used to rename a set category in the same circumstances, where the set is defined by a renamed topic; e.g. players for a sports team, or places in a district.
  • Before nominating a category to be renamed per WP:C2D, consider whether it makes more sense to move the article instead of the category.

C2E: Author request

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  • This criterion applies only if the author of a category requests or agrees to renaming within six months of creating the category.
  • The criterion does not apply if other editors have populated or changed the category since it was created. "Other editors" includes bots that populated the category, but excludes an editor working with the author on the renaming.

C2F: One eponymous page

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  • This criterion applies if the category contains only an eponymous article, list, template or media file, provided that the category has not otherwise been emptied shortly before the nomination. The default outcome is an upmerge to the parent categories, where applicable. Nominations should use {{subst:cfm-speedy}} (speedy merger) linking to a suitable parent category, or to another appropriate category (e.g. one that is currently on the article). When listing the nomination at WP:CFDS, you must manually add all the appropriate parent categories as targets if the member page is not already in them.

Admin instructions

When handling the listings:

  1. Make sure that the listing meets one of the above criteria.
  2. With the exception of C2E, make sure that it was both listed and tagged at least 48 hours previously.
  3. Make sure that there is no opposition to the listing; if there is a discussion, check if the opposing user(s) ended up withdrawing their opposition.

If the listing meets these criteria, simply have the category renamed or merged – follow the instructions at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Administrator instructions, in the section "If the decision is to Rename, Merge, or Delete"; to list it for the bots, use the Speedy moves section.

Applying speedy criteria in full discussions

  • A nomination to merge or rename, brought forward as a full CfD, may be speedily closed if the closing administrator is satisfied that:
    • The nomination clearly falls within the scope of one of the criteria listed here, and
    • No objections have been made within 48 hours of the initial nomination.
  • If both these conditions are satisfied, the closure will be regarded as having been a result of a speedy nomination. If any objections have been raised then the CfD nomination will remain in place for the usual 7-day discussion period, to be decided in accordance with expressed consensus.

Add requests for speedy renaming and merging here

If the category and desired change do not match one of the criteria mentioned in C2, do not list it here. Instead, list it in the main CFD section.

If you are in any doubt as to whether it qualifies, do not list it here.

Use the following format on a new line at the beginning of the list: 

* ] to ] – Reason ~~~~

If the current name should be redirected rather than deleted, use: 

* REDIRECT ] to ] – Reason ~~~~

To note that human action is required, e.g. updating a template that populates the category, use: 

* NO BOTS ] to ] – Reason ~~~~

Remember to tag the category page with: {{subst:cfr-speedy|New name}}

A request may be completed if it is more than 48 hours old; that is, if the time stamp shown is earlier than 00:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC). Currently, there are 760 open requests (refresh).

Administrators and page movers: Do not use the "Move" tab to move categories listed here!Categories are processed following the 48-hour waiting period and are moved by a bot.

Current requests

Please add new requests at the top of the list, preferably with a link to the parent category (in case of C2C) or relevant article (in case of C2D).

Opposed requests

  • What exactly is your problem, sir? The vast majority of Misplaced Pages articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" (the same goes for the articles/categories about ancient Rome, ancient Greece and ancient Egypt). Also, "Museums of Ancient Near East" categories are missing the definite article regardless of your preferences ("Museums of the Ancient Near East" or "Museums of the ancient Near East").--Russian Rocky (talk) 21:49, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  • I'm fine with adding "the" - it's "ancient" that needs discussion. If it it is true that "the vast majority of Misplaced Pages articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" (the same goes for the articles/categories about ancient Rome, ancient Greece and ancient Egypt)" this is only because of recent campaigns by a handful of capitalization fanatics, acting without discussion or consensus. Johnbod (talk) 04:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
  • So why don't you discuss it on Talk:Ancient Near East instead? To begin with, there is not enough people in CFDs to discuss this matter. Also, what "capitalization fanatics" are you talking about? Are you aware that "Ancient Near East" was changed to "ancient Near East" in 2011 (Talk:Ancient Near East#Capitalization)? Here's an excerpt: "According to The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (p. 153), "Ancient" should not be capitalized, not in "ancient Near East" nor in "ancient Near Eastern"." Since 2011, nobody has talked about capitalization on Talk:Ancient Near East.
Except Category:Novels set in the Ancient Near East, Category:Films set in the Ancient Near East, Category:Sculpture of the Ancient Near East, other categories with no definite article should be renamed in any case. I suggest to stick to "ancient Near East" at first because it's more widespread inspite of your claim about "a handful of capitalization fanatics" (you provided no evidence that "ancient Near East" is controversial and is under discussion). Personally, I don't care whether it is "ancient Near East" or "Ancient Near East", but the current consensus is apparently the former and let's stick to it.--Russian Rocky (talk) 20:38, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
Most category and article page names do use lowercase "ancient" in phrases like "ancient Rome" and "ancient Greece" (excluding language designations). See usage throughout the Ancient Rome page, Social class in ancient Rome, Patrician (ancient Rome), Timeline of ancient Greece, Category:Wikipedians interested in ancient Rome, Category:Novels set in ancient Rome, Category:Prosopography of ancient Rome, Category:Wars involving ancient Greece, Category:Battles involving ancient Greece, Category:Culture of ancient Greece, and Category:History books about ancient Greece for examples. I believe we should aim for consistency in article and category names. Many of these pages and categories have had these names for quite some time and were not moved recently. If you would like to use uppercase in phrases like "Ancient Greece", why not propose this at the talk pages of the main pages? WikiEditor50 (talk) 06:54, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Yes, please. Unfortunately, I can't figure out myself what Johnbod's problem is. He claimed that the vast majority of Misplaced Pages articles related to the ancient Near East use "ancient Near East" because of "recent campaigns by a handful of capitalization fanatics, acting without discussion or consensus", but there is no evidence that "ancient Near East" is controversial and/or is under discussion. I agree with InverseHypercube on Talk:Ancient Near East who said the following: "According to The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (p. 153), "Ancient" should not be capitalized, not in "ancient Near East" nor in "ancient Near Eastern"."
  • See The SBL Handbook of Style For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies (Appendix A: Capitalization and Spelling Examples) at the Internet Archive: p. 153: "ancient Near East (noun)" "ancient Near Eastern (adj.)".--Russian Rocky (talk) 08:32, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

On hold pending other discussion

Moved to full discussion

Ready for deletion

Check Category:Empty categories awaiting deletion for out of process deletions. In some cases, these will need to be nominated for discussion and the editor who emptied the category informed that they should follow the WP:CFD process.

Once the renaming has been completed, copy and paste the listing to the Ready for deletion section of Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Working/Manual.


Discussions

< May 8 May 10 >

May 9

Category:Islamofascism

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

More disruption by LevelCheck. RickK 23:04, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Cvg cleanup

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

After deleting the template "game-cleanup" (see log), its related category hadn't been deleted. 500LL 20:24, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete. I was going to list it here after I cleaned up template use and deleted it but then forgot about it. Good catch 500LL. RedWolf 05:31, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Portugese musicians

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Misspelling of Category:Portuguese musicians. Empty. --Nabla 19:13, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

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Category:Portugese nobility

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Misspelling of Category:Portuguese nobility. Empty. --Nabla 19:13, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

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Category:People from Nova Scotia in broadcasting

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added by creator same day category was created. --Kbdank71 17:29, 9 May 2005 (UTC) delete creator Mayumashu 20:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Nova Scotia writers

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added by creator same day category was created. --Kbdank71 17:29, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Nova Scotia scientists

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added by creator same day category was created. --Kbdank71 17:29, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Nova Scotia people by occupation

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added by creator same day category was created. --Kbdank71 17:29, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Nova Scotia inventors

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added by creator same day category was created. --Kbdank71 17:29, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Nova Scotia businesspeople

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added by creator one day after category was created. --Kbdank71 17:29, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Nova Scotia artists

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added by creator one day after category was created. --Kbdank71 17:29, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Emo bands

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty category, and redundant with Category:Emo musical groups. (It's really too bad redirects don't work for categories...) Lachatdelarue (talk) 14:32, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Named after Charles Darwin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Should be renamed to Category:Namesakes of Charles Darwin, which is more correct terminology.

  • Rename: Cyberjunkie 05:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC) Change to Delete, there is already a disambiguation page and legacy section in the article that should suffice.--Cyberjunkie 16:04, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, do not rename. This is a very artificial category; the constituent parts have little in common acceppt their name. Imagine if we had Category:Namesakes of Columbus or Category:Namesakes of Victoria or Category:Namesakes of Mary. We don't, and for good reason. All of these should just be mentioned in Charles Darwin's article; integrated into the text when more or less directly relevent to his life or influence like Darwin's finches and Darwinism, and in a small list at the end for things not directly related like Darwin, Northern Territory and the Darwin Medal.--Pharos 05:57, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Replace with article List of things named after Charles Darwin. No need for a category, but an article might work fairly well. Grutness...wha? 10:50, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete as trivial. I wouldn't mind an article though, as Grutness suggests. Radiant_* 11:21, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
  • Replace with article. I agree with the suggestion by Grutness above that this should be an article, not a category. -- Redfarmer 15:52, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • This is not really germane to the category, but I don't think a separate article is at all necessary; there are only twelve entries, and three of these are relevant enough to be discussed in the main body of the text. A list of nine would not bloat the Charles Darwin article.--Pharos 16:42, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Here's why I created it: I made Category:Charles Darwin to hold all of the miscellaneous articles about different parts of Darwin's life and his books and etc. Just a useful organizing device. While doing this, I thought, "Does the Darwin awards really go under Charles Darwin?" Not really -- he had nothing to do with them, they are just named after him. "Fine, I'll just make a little subcategory of the Charles Darwin category where all these things can go." I can understand renaming it but I don't understand what good it will do to delete it. If you wanted to drop the "isms" because you think the category tag is ugly, I'd be happy with that. But I don't see any good reason to delete the category -- it isn't doing any harm, it is a sensible organization device (that is, it is not nonsensical), and whether it is trivia or not probably depends on individual taste. I'm not sure I find it any more or less trivial than Category:Bird Pokémon. It's a small category but it's better than a list and doesn't need a whole article. Just leave well enough alone, eh? There are few enough entries that it doesn't make the idea ridiculous (as would some of the other Namesakes, though even then I'm not sure how many Namesakes of Columbus there are). Anyway, whatever, it doesn't matter, I guess I'm just frustrated that I took the time to figure out which of those things were actually named after Charles Darwin or not and I'm a little frustrated that a day later half a dozen people find it convenient to vote to delete something which I think is well within the boundaries of notability and sensibility. It was a simple attempt to find a way to categorize a few things in a more elegant way than as a list, delete it if you want, I don't care. --Fastfission 17:07, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
    • But the problem is that the "Darwin Awards" really have nothing to do with Darwin. Category:Bird Pokémon may not be the most important thing in the world, but it is unquestionably about Pokémon. That's the difference. I'm glad that you researched which things are actually named after Charles Darwin; this information is even more valuable on his main article.--Pharos 17:23, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Historical dogs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

One entry added by an anon user who's fake article is on VfD. Samw 03:27, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.
< May 7 May 9 >

May 8

Category:Pesticide

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was rename. --Kbdank71 14:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC) Should be Category:Pesticides to match Category:Herbicides, Category:Fungicides, and Category:Insecticides - SimonP 22:36, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Canadian companies

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. --Kbdank71 14:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Please delete my mistake, didn't find Category:Companies of Canada first--Hooperbloob 20:25, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Republic of Singapore Navy naval bases

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was rename. --Kbdank71 14:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

As discussed with User:Huaiwei in his talk page, a more appropriate category would be Category:Republic of Singapore Navy bases.

As I am unfamiliar with the rules here, I mistakenly de-populated Category:Republic of Singapore Navy naval bases and shifted the two articles in the old cateogory to a new category Category:Republic of Singapore Navy naval bases. I sincerely apologize for the mistake.

As it is a hassle to re-edit the articles, I was wondering if I could just let them be in the new category? If otherwise, I will revert back to the old category.

-Travisyoung 02:43, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Unless anyone can point out either (a) some naval bases not for the use of a navy, or (b) any navy bases that aren't naval, I don't see anything wrong with this suggestion. Grutness| 08:36, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Canadian football (gridiron) players

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. --Kbdank71 14:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

The category was ambiguous (did it categorize players of Canadian football or Canadian players of American football?) To resolve this, Category:Canadian football players and Category:Canadian American football players was created (consistent with category naming conventions in other sport), and thus this could be speedied. kelvSYC 19:15, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.
< May 6 May 8 >

May 7

Gay, lesbian, and bisexual / LGBT occupational categories

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was reinstate all. --Kbdank71 14:07, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Given complaints on the talk page, I'm posting this request for undeletion of the LGBT occupational subcategories. Personally, I think it's a bad idea to keep Category:Gay, lesbian or bisexual people but not any subcategories, because then the category gets way too large. Other people have said they need the subcatgories to put under e.g. "Category:Artists" or "Category:Musicians". See Misplaced Pages talk:Categories_for_deletion for more. The original deletion discussion is at Misplaced Pages:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 April 24. It's also worth considering whether these will be LGB or LGBT. Also, we need to decide what the threshold should be for undeletion. I propose that if a 50% majority supports recreation, that's sufficient. We generally need a 66% or more majority to support deletion, so 50% for undeletion prevents arbitrary flip-flopping. -- Beland 23:12, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Keep deleted. Unnecessary subcategorization. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and consistent with our previous decisions to delete occupational subcategories of Category:Italian-Americans and Category:Jews, this is too much. Categories should also group only meaningful relationships of characteristics, and someone's sexual orientation (just as ethnicity) and occupation are usually coincidental and arbitrary relationships to draw. Allowing for these kinds of categories also creates an inevitable mess on articles, as every ethnic and social identity would garner similar subcategories. Create lists if you must, which can then be annotated to explain the relationship, and the lists themselves can be categorized by both the general personal identity category and the general occupational category. Postdlf 23:27, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate. Until one can search on multiple categories at the same time then some subcategories need to remain available, and these "LGBT xxxxx" group are one of those categorisations. --Vamp:Willow 00:05, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep deleted. Not necessary. --Kbdank71 02:14, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate this very useful research tool which should NOT have been deleted. Jonathunder 03:54, 2005 May 8 (UTC)
  • Reinstate --Spinboy 04:31, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Hesitant reinstate. Some fields in particular can have a special relationship between sexuality and occupation. Writers, artists, and historians especially have devoted quite a bit of energy into connecting their sexuality and their work. This could also actually help to clean up category messes on articles. Instead of Category: Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people and Category: Artists, there would only be one required category, say, Category: Lesbian artists. There are also peculiar categories where this may be extremely important, say, Category: Lesbian feminists. As long as people are willing to maintain the categories I see no particular reason not to allow their existence. -Seth Mahoney 04:35, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate. These subcategories are created for immensely practical reasons (let's make some sense out of an otherwise enormous and clogged master category of lgb people! let's help readers move across widely searched and relevant common threads, like lgbt musicians or lgbt people in politics) and opposed for abstract theoretical grounds (cross-categorization isn't ideal! someday MediaWiki should really be able to process these automatically!) I agree with these abstract ideals too, but until the software support is there per VampWillow, let's let the category be manageable and useful for readers and editors interested in topics about lgbt people beyond just "lgb people." The consensus already accepts less-than-theoretically-ideal duplication between categories and lists because each can do for now some things the other can't. There's no reason not to do the same here. Samaritan 04:44, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • My own preference would obviously be to reinstate the categories, since I'm the one who started most of them in the first place and the one who technically set off the current discussion, but I'm willing to abide by any decision that gets made. My primary concern was that I'd like to believe that my contribution history is solid enough that if it's noticed that I created a page or a category that's up for deletion, somebody would think "Oh, he's a good enough contributor that he might have had a valid reason for doing this; maybe we should at least give him the opportunity to explain it." (And no, I don't think I'm special; I'd expect that courtesy to be extended to any established user with a relatively good reputation.) If my edits really ain't worth bat guano, feel free to disabuse me of my delusions of adequacy; otherwise, we should probably discuss some way to flag categories as "under discussion" (an asterisk in the category link? a policy that the creator should always be alerted to the discussion?) rather than assuming that people are always going to magically be aware of what's going on with everything they've ever edited. Bearcat 05:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate For all the reasons stated above. I suggest that people read the discussions at Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_deletion#LGBT_subcategories. Anyone serious about CfD should examine the original discussion and the follow up discussions linked above. This points out a serious problem with CfD which should be addressed somehow. Categories should be deleted ONLY if there is an overwhelming majority that agrees. If the majority cannot convince a vocal minority to change their oppinion, the category should stay. Misplaced Pages should be a big tent. -- Samuel Wantman 06:38, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
    • No, that is an invitation to groups of activists to foist their agendas on Misplaced Pages, regardless of the majority view, and there could hardly be a subject area where that is more likely to happen. Keep deleted. 06:42, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Let them stay Deleted I really don't like these sort of "categorisation of people" categories - and do not see any advantage of grouping gays and bisexuals with transgendereds. It's one thing if the people who will be added to this category are activists in this area - in which case "people" should be replaced with "activists", but it's another if they are famous and well-known for other things and just happen to be gay or bisexual. And even if they are gay and bisexual, who's to say they would welcome being grouped with transgendered, which is different from gay, which is also different from bisexual. For me, the same would go for categorisation by religion, race, sex and preferred football team - unless we can replace "people" with "activist" we shouldn't be using these categories, jguk 07:29, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate I see no harm in reinstating these - they are useful cat entries for people interested in finding out more than just LGB People. Megan1967 07:57, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate, please. V. useful. Tobyox 10:56, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate. James F. (talk) 14:38, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • KEEP ANNIHILATED! - Super-POV and super-crazy, especially LGBT ANCIENT GREEKS! Andros 1337 20:34, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Was there a category LGBT ancient Greeks? I'd be surprised. Anyhow, that isn't how these categories are used. There are actually guidelines which are supposed to be followed, which inlcude not transferring our modern ideas regarding sexuality too far back in history - in other words, Alexander the Great doesn't get a LGBT tag. -Seth Mahoney 23:32, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep deleted. I agree with Jguk's comments. I must point out that such categories appear to be pushing a POV, and seems to be isolating a specific group of general society beyond what is neccesary in this site. It might turn out to be counter productive even.--Huaiwei 20:42, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • What is necessary in this site? I mean, look, the categories are to be used for people who identify as gay, lesbian, etc. They've already isolated themselves in this sense, so we're not doing anything but affirming their identification. -Seth Mahoney 23:32, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • This simply does not make sense. Wiipedia is not a place to "affirm" social isolation (a situation which itself is debatable and multi-faceted, may I add), but to present information in a holistic manner. Demanding for a LGBT catgory makes me wonder if we therefore need a category for heterosexuals, since providing balanced information is key to this site? For what purpose and gain will that do then?--Huaiwei 19:44, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I think you're reading 'affirm' in a sense other than how I meant it. Look, people identify as gay or whatever. 'Affirm' here just means we're saying, "yup, you did that. This is how you lived your life." It doesn't mean, "yup, you did that. We're throwing you a Misplaced Pages party to make you feel good about yourself." As far as heterosexual categories, though this has been covered elsewhere and in every debate about LGBT categories, articles, etc., here's a synopsis: People are assumed straight by default. We don't need hetero categories for the same reason we don't need white categories or categories for people who weren't vegetarians or for people who aren't feminists or for people aren't critical theorists or for people who aren't biblical scholars. There is also no (that I know of) specifically hetero scholarship, and the existence of LGBT scholarship is one of the primary reasons categories like this are useful. -Seth Mahoney 14:08, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
While on most points I agree, I very much disagree on "white" there - obviously, there are far more non-vegatarians or non-LGBT people out there, so assuming people eat meat or are cis-straight by default makes sense. Assuming people are white by default however makes sense only for countries and regions where there is neither a notable non-white minority nor a non-white majority. And that is not the case in most places on this planet. Most people on this planet are non-white, hence, white cannot be the default. -- AlexR 12:48, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate. TreyHarris 21:21, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate. CDThieme
  • Reinstate, I must say I am surprised to see that these categories were deleted - they have been tremendously helpful to me in some of my research for various things I am invoved it. Having a "literature week" and immediately being able to find a list of well-known GLBT authors was increadably simplistic. While I am somewhat against labeling people, when it comes to references and guides, such as Misplaced Pages, it is nessiasry to assist the reader. Arcuras 22:52, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Frankly, I'm a little surprised at how much I've seen accusations of homophobia lobbied at people in the several discussions, recently, on these categories. Personally, I'm a little upset at how easily some people will pull out the gay card, and assume that the reason people are disagreeing with them is that they're homophobic. I am gay, myself, and not entirely sure about the usefulness of the deleted categories we're discussing, here. I think what it comes down to is why we've written an article about someone. If they're an LGBT activist, then obviously we should put them in an LGBT activist category. But what about someone like Rupert Everett? He's gay, sure, but it's not really important to who he is. He's famous because of his acting, not because of his gayness. I'm just saying that, for many (not all) of the people in these categories, the fact that they're gay is rather secondary. It's been suggested, and I agree 100%, that it is useful to have easily accessable lists of well-known LGBT individuals for research purposes. But could this be accomplished through lists, instead of the category system? I'm just thinking out loud, here. I haven't made a final decision, yet. --Azkar 00:50, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Personally I don't like lists because they're sneaky. Its difficult to tell from looking at the main article what lists it is a part of. With categories, everyone can see, and anyone can change they category if it is inappropriate, which seems to me more effective. But hey, I'm curious. Why would a list be better than a category? -Seth Mahoney 02:39, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
      • Lists can be annotated, while an article's inclusion in a category cannot—a category classification appears to be a bland and unqualified claim to objective fact. Lists do not intrude into the articles that they list, and so an article can be included in hundreds of lists while more than have a dozen categories gets to look like a serious jumble at the bottom of the page. This gets even worse when the categories overlap in subject matter, as when the inevitable happens and, a writer for example, gets classified as a writer under every conceivable social group they belong to—Category:American writers, Category:LGBT writers, Category:African-American writers, Category:Women writers... Leaving out the most basic categories such as Category:American writers means that the individual can only be found through a classification of that identity characteristic—that is "ghettoizing" if anything, and reductionist (she's not a writer first, she's a LGBT African-American woman first). Combining these (i.e., Category:African-American LGBT women writers) would make the category's intersection of arbitrary relationships even worse and would make category navigation rather senseless. Lists avoid all these problems. Postdlf 03:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, lists avoid the problem of supposedly making statements about articles (I just don't see it that way) by being near-invisible, which means that article authors are less likely to see an article's inclusion in a list, which means that its inclusion is less likely to be debated, which is bad. I also don't see the issue of a category's being foremost in a tree as ghettoizing the prior categories. To me, categories aren't there to make statements or labels for articles, but as avenues for information. People who are interested will click on a given category, if they're interested in the parent categories, they'll go there, if not, mabye they'll go on to a subcategory or whatever. Just because a parent isn't explicitely mentioned in the child article's name doesn't mean it isn't important at all. -Seth Mahoney 04:53, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
  • No, you read my comments backwards. Narrow categories ghettoize articles, not broad categories, and you only seem to be thinking of navigation in one direction—a given article will obviously be more commonly searched to through the category structure than searched from. So what happens when a host of articles are just found in identity-subcats? While the white male hetero articles are in the main, unqualified categories... Bob Straight Man White Boy Jones is a writer, while Rob African-American Gay Man Jones is either an African-American writer, a gay writer, or an African-American gay writer (good luck arguing over which should come first), but regardless he is separated and qualified by his race or sexual orientation. And all this time Rob Jones may not even care about identity politics and just write spy novels. Any comment on the rest of my points? Postdlf 05:03, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Oh! Gotcha! Maybe I'm weird, but I get to categories from articles when I'm looking for related articles. So I might get to Category: Woodwinds or whatever from Clarinet, and, hey! Look! There are all the woodwinds! I have never actually browsed up the category tree from the bottom, nor have I (I don't even know if you really can) searched for categories. Like I said, though, maybe I'm weird. As far as the rest of your points, I think I've covered them, though maybe obliquely. -Seth Mahoney 05:19, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
Although I disagree with his overall conclusion, I do think Postdlf has a valid argument here. However, I believe that part of the genesis for this conflict is because of the rigidly held view that articles cannot be in subcategories and supercategories. I've been arguing for changing this for months at Misplaced Pages talk:Categorization, and I think we are close to a compromise that says that articles CAN sometimes be in both super and sub-categories. This is an attempt to address just this concern. I believe this problem comes about because there are multiple category hierarchies in Misplaced Pages and sometimes the subcategories of one hierarchy can also be thought of as subcategories of another. In this case, those of us working on LGBT categories were not attempting to ghettoize LGBT people, but just trying to create categories we find useful. Others think this makes the supercategories LESS useful. I don't believe the solution is to remove the subcategories. The solution is to make clear guidelines for when there can be duplication. Here is the compromise:
1) Ease up on the no Super/Sub-Category duplication rule. Duplications seem to arise naturally. We should agree to allow duplication when it makes the categories more complete, less confusing or in other ways more useful. I think the rule of thumb could be:
If there aren't subcategories for every member of a category, there can be duplication. Thus, Oscar winners could duplicate film actors, Film musicals could duplicate musicals, Toll bridges could duplicate Bridges, Actors could duplicate African-American actors, etc... This would also hold if the subcategories are more than one level below. So since the entries for Directors by Nationality are two levels below Directors (and many directors are multi-national), there could be duplication.
2) When entries are duplicated, the duplication should be noted. See: Category:Bridges in New York City for an example of how this could be done.
3) Only bend "the rule" with restraint. We're not agreeing to include articles at more than two levels of a hierarchy. There should be a good reason for any duplication. Duplications should only happen if they make categories easier to use. Exceptions of a type that we haven't discussed should be brought up at the categorization talk page for discussion. --Samuel Wantman 05:45, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate all subcategories. None should be deleted unless the parent category is also deleted; cluttering up a large category like this is unhelpful. -Sean Curtin 23:02, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate all. I agree with everything User:VampWillow, User:Bearcat and User:Samaritan (inter alia) wrote. The categories aren't oppressive if most of the LGBT voices in the discussion (including myself) think they're useful and I think it's perfectly legitimate that people might want easy ways of finding, for example, Lesbian feminists. — OwenBlacker 08:08, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Reinstate all - the deletion was somewhat sneaky, if there are cats that should be deleted, we can do a vote on every single one of them afterwards. -- AlexR 12:48, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
Ancients
  • Comment: I just wanted to clarify that undeletion of Category:LGBT Ancient Greeks is not being requested, correct? The first post didn't really clarify beyond stating "occupational categories", of which this one is not. Postdlf 02:46, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
    • I certainly hope not. I'd rather see Category: LGBT Ancient Greeks go away. -Seth Mahoney 02:50, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
      • My vote was to reinstate ALL of the categories deleted in that second vote because of serious concerns about the process. Once we have things back to how it was before that, I'm quite open to discussing how to deal with ancients. Jonathunder 14:45, 2005 May 9 (UTC)
        • I'm fine with that, actually. I'd rather see each category appear individually on CfD (which is probably gonna happen) than get them all mixed up again. So, thanks for the note Jonathunder. Eyes on the topic at hand! -Seth Mahoney 19:07, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree that Category:LGBT Ancient Greeks is somewhat ridiculous. One can't really describe anyone before the 19th century with gender and sexuality labels that didn't exist until then (qv Jonathan Ned Katz's Love Stories: Sex between Men before Homosexuality, ISBN 0226426165). — OwenBlacker 08:08, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
While I do agree that LGBT is not without problems, there should probably be a cat that lists people who behaved in a way we today describe as LGBT and/or homosexual and/or gender variant. Now we only need a managable title for it. "LGBT Ancient Greeks" is indeed inappropriate. -- AlexR 12:48, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Ed, Edd n Eddy

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The result of the debate was delete. --Kbdank71 14:18, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

This was created as part of a well-intentioned attempt to clean up after a problem user (User:Bobber2, now dba User:Bobber1 FYI). However, the only practical result of this category is to list episode articles in alphabetical order. Furthermore, the category tag has not been added to any of the episode articles or the main article, leaving nothing linking to this category. If a reader is interested in episodes of the TV show, they will undoubtedly go to the main article first, where they can then link to episode articles. In other words, this category is "generally a bad idea." Delete. Soundguy99 18:24, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Someone should vfd all the articles in this category. Assuming they're all deleted, we can delete the category. On the off chance some of them can be expanded (personally, based on what I've looked at, this isn't very likely), then this category would be appropriate. --Azkar 22:53, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Well, IMHO, what to do about all the episode articles is a whole other question. Per WP:FICT the characters are not going to have their own articles, I doubt that readers are going to care about locating the episode articles except through the main article on the show, and if the main articles gets too long a new list of episodes can be created. I just don't think this is truly a "Category"; it will never encompass anything but more and more episode articles. Soundguy99 16:25, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
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category:Religions of Brazil

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The result of the debate was rename. --Kbdank71 14:10, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Should be renamed as category:Religion in Brazil which is standard and accomodates all relevant articles, eg those about Cathedrals, religous history and biogaphies of priests. Oliver Chettle 17:58, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Support. "Religions of Brazil" would invite too much inclusion, and we'd eventually have articles like Roman Catholicism categorized by every country in which there are Roman Catholics. Postdlf 23:29, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:The 50 Worst Movies Ever Made

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The result of the debate was delete. --Kbdank71 14:22, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

I have no objections to categories like this in principle as long as the list is significant enough and the source identified. (e.g., something like "Rolling Stone's 50 best albums ever") But I don't think movies covered in a random documentary deserve a category. Gamaliel 17:51, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete. The name appears just as POV of a category as "Greatest Americans" was, which we deleted. It's also too much to create categories for every ranked list. Even the AFI ones may even be too much, but at least those stood out somewhat as notable, and the categories are properly titled to indicate the source of the designation. Include a reference to the movie's inclusion in the list in those articles if absolutely necessary. Postdlf 23:32, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, especially as - with all of these top/bottom 50/100/1000 lists - the list will change each year and with each newspaper/tv channel creating the list so would be (a) massive POV, and (b) hell to maintain. --Vamp:Willow 00:02, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete per VampWillow. Samaritan 05:24, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete because lists like this should be ranked, not alphabetized, so even if this was NPOV or had an authoritative source, it should be in a list, not in a category. --ssd 04:09, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Rename Movies considered to be Worst (obviously something tidier!) Although I think this DVD merits an article, it doesn't merit a category. The phenomenon of 'worst ever' though needs embracing. The JPS 13:53, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
cf. article deletion discussion at Misplaced Pages:Votes_for_deletion/The_50_Worst_Movies_Ever_Made
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Category:Transportation in Ottawa-Carleton Region

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The result of the debate was delete. --Kbdank71 14:23, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Duplicated by the new and better named Category:Transportation in Ottawa. --Spinboy 16:43, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

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< May 5 May 7 >

May 6

Category:Chinese history

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The result of the debate was no consensus (keep) --Kbdank71 16:21, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Articles here should be moved to existing Category:History of China. Because there are a non-trivial number of articles (10) I didn't move them pending a vote, in case there is some reason for the apparently duplicate category. However, there is already a hard redirect here (which, of course, doesn't work) to the correct category. RussBlau 21:36, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

  • Well the current content does not make a compelling argument for a separate category, however, the Chinese history category can be used to house the history of Chinese outside of China (ie. the Chinese Exclusion act, the construction of the transcontinental railways, Singapore, Anna May Wong, ... ) 132.205.45.148 17:08, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Sketch proofs

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 16:24, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Seems this never got off the ground, has only one article in it, even if this category has been around since June 1 2004. The truth is, most math proofs on Misplaced Pages are sketches anyway, so this category could as well be merged into Category:Proofs. Oleg Alexandrov 20:03, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Comment. I saw the title and thought "Who would make a category of rough outlines for comedy routines?" Grutness| 12:55, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Arabs

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:34, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty; moved the one article there to existing Category:Arab people. RussBlau 19:58, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:American film directors

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 16:25, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty; moved all articles to existing Category:U.S. film directors. RussBlau 19:37, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Trinidadian culture -> Category:Culture of Trinidad and Tobago_Category:Culture_of_Trinidad_and_Tobago-May_6">

Category:Trinidadian music -> Category:Music of Trinidad and Tobago_Category:Music_of_Trinidad_and_Tobago-May_6">

Category:Trinidadian musicians -> Category:Trinidad and Tobago musicians_Category:Trinidad_and_Tobago_musicians-May_6-2005-05-06T18:09:00.000Z">

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The result of the debate was rename culture and music, no consensus on musicians --Kbdank71 17:16, 13 May 2005 (UTC)_Category:Trinidad_and_Tobago_musicians"> _Category:Trinidad_and_Tobago_musicians">

Inasmuch as the name of the country is Trinidad and Tobago, not Trinidad, this should be reflected in the names of these categories. The last one (Trinidad and Tobago musicians, rather than Musicians of Trinidad and Tobago) is to be in keeping with other People by Occupation categories used for Trinidad and Tobago people. Guettarda 18:09, 6 May 2005 (UTC)_Category:Trinidad_and_Tobago_musicians"> _Category:Trinidad_and_Tobago_musicians">

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Category:Ancient Greek currency

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:34, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice was added to this category by the creator 1/2 hour after being created. --Kbdank71 14:06, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Military people of the United States

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 16:17, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Anon user created this category, which serves only to link to Category:Members of the U.S. armed forces. Should be quickly deleted to avoid confusion. Harro5 10:38, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Université Concordia

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 16:17, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Anon user created this category for an English University. I created the proper category and this one can now be deleted. --Spinboy 02:58, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

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< May 4 May 6 >

May 5

Category:Culture of mainland China

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The result of the debate was keep until Rfar is complete --Kbdank71 13:43, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice was added on Apr 3 by User:Huaiwei. I don't want to get in the middle of this right now, but the category has been around since March 10th and it's empty. --Kbdank71 18:29, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete it. Note for RfAr that it was created by Instantnood with no consensus and obviously nobody wanted to put articles into it. SchmuckyTheCat 22:01, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
  • ISTR reading somewhere that categories can be speedied if they've been empty more that 24 hours. Anyone confirm? Grutness| 01:22, 7 May 2005 (UTC) In light of further items below, I withdraw this comment. Grutness...wha? 11:00, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep one of the previous voters decided he was going to remove all the articles that were in the category, that's why it's empty, it's part of an edit war. --Wgfinley 15:01, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
Who was the voter in question?--Huaiwei 09:59, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
Pretty extensive listing of Schmucky's activities as of late on an injunction request in the RfAr --Wgfinley 21:12, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Currency

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The result of the debate was keep Currency, delete Currencies, move regional currencies to National Currencies --Kbdank71 13:59, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice was added on Mar 20 by User:Maurreen. --Kbdank71 18:24, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

  • I'd like to keep it and reorganise the Category:Currencies and sub categories. Seabhcán 11:31, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Please don't make wholesale changes while a vote is in progress. I've added the cfd notice back to Category:Currency. Also, you shouldn't have emptied out the category without a concensus. BTW, the "currency" is listed here because category names should be plural ("currencies"). --Kbdank71 16:36, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
    • It is more reasonable to have all the various national currencies in regional subcategories (ie. Category:African currencies) because all national currencies are linked to a template (ie. Template:AfricanCurrencies), which has a built-in category. Then the question becomes should we have these regional currency categories within a super-category called Category:Currencies or Category:Currency. Seeing that all articles about actual currencies are within the regional articles what is left for the super-category? There are general articles on the concept of currency, on exchange rates, etc. I think that these would be better contained within a Currency category. Seabhcán 18:39, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Since there seems to be a mixture of articles that are about currency as a subject, and articles that describe different national currencies, how about this: We have Category:Currency as a super-category. All the articles about currency and exchange rates, etc., can go here. Since the national currencies appear to be organized by region, we can have a sub-category called Category:Currencies by region, or even have Category:Currencies as a sub-cat, if different categorization is needed at that level (although I could see this as being perhaps a little confusing to the reader). No individual (national, regional, historical, whatever) currencies should go in the super-cat. Could something along these lines be a workable solution? --Azkar 18:40, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Turkish soccer competitions -> Category:Turkish football competitions_Category:Turkish_football_competitions-May_5-2005-05-05T18:07:00.000Z">

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)_Category:Turkish_football_competitions"> _Category:Turkish_football_competitions">

Added to the Delete me section below by the creator without listing it here first. --Kbdank71 18:07, 5 May 2005 (UTC)_Category:Turkish_football_competitions"> _Category:Turkish_football_competitions">

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Category:Dukes of Bohemia

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The result of the debate was keep --Kbdank71 13:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Cfd notice was added on Dec 24 by User:Qertis. --Kbdank71 18:03, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Economics theories

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:46, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Cfd notice was added on Mar 27 by User:Maurreen. --Kbdank71 18:00, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Historic buildings

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice was added on Apr 13 by anon user. --Kbdank71 17:25, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Kings of Bohemia

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice was added on Dec 24 by User:Qertis. --Kbdank71 17:16, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Grammar Schools in England

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice was added on April 2 by User:Icairns. --Kbdank71 16:50, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Meandric numbers

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:50, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Many numbers categories were nominated on April 14th here by User:Radiant! The CfD notice was also added to Category:Meandric numbers on the same day, but not listed here. --Kbdank71 15:22, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Texas stub

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Even Texas isn't big enough to need both the empty Category:Texas stub and the well-populated Category: Texas stubs! Grutness| 07:19, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

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< May 3 May 5 >

May 4

Category:Gay, lesbian or bisexual people

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 13:51, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Should be moved to Category:Gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender people (note that its soon-to-be-deleted sub-categories were all GBLT, not GBL, despite the category's name). James F. (talk) 23:37, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

FYI: we have guidelines for categorizing people. They are available at Misplaced Pages:Categorization of people, and much of the debate, which started due to categories like this, that went into creating them is on the talk page. Keep this in mind when making your vote.

  • I still think this should be deleted. Andros 1337 01:02, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, leaves to much room for 'opinion' as its now written. Chance0 01:49, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I have to agree with James F. -- making the category more transgender-inclusive was one of the reasons I created the subcategories that just got deleted in the first place. (And somebody still owes me a damn good explanation for how that discussion could take place and get resolved without anybody contacting me.) However, I'm getting pretty fucking sick and tired of people arguing that LGBT-related categories should be deleted altogether; there is no valid reason for doing so outside of pure and simple homophobia. It's simply a factual grouping, and it bewilders me that anybody could possibly believe that having the category is POV advocacy, but deleting it isn't. Support move to transgender inclusion, but let's keep the debate on the topic at hand. Bearcat 04:18, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm with bearcat. Transfer to Category:Gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender people. Anything else, such as deleting the category entirely, can be discussed after this vote is concluded. -Seth Mahoney 05:51, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
    • Hmm, good spot. I'm much a fan of the Oxford comma, but it was after midnight when I wrote that ;-). James F. (talk) 09:40, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Should be and transgender, not or - you can be both LGB and transgender; the or would be misleading. Also, the point is that it belongs together, or sets it apart. -- AlexR 08:15, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Either we include the T in the GLBT, or we clean up the subcats. The best (and probably easiest) way of proceeding is to make it inclusive and move it to describe GLBT. Dysprosia 06:05, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Agree with Seth Mahoney's exact proposal on the category name (with the commas as per the MOS). Agree with Bearcat's comments. Jonathunder 06:20, 2005 May 5 (UTC)
  • Delete. Same reason as the prior CfD, which by the way has nothing at all to do with homophobia. --Kbdank71 15:44, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  1. A person's sexual orientation is never irrelevant to an article about them. It is homophobia to believe that it is.
It's not irrelevant? Please, then, point me to the "Straight people" category. Or is it only relevant if you're Gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered? --Kbdank71 16:29, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
Obviously, "straight" is kinda default, and therefore not really a necessary cat. LGBT* people are a minority, and therefore it makes more sense to cat only those. -- AlexR 08:15, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
I have no problem with a "Straight people" category if you think there is a need for one. But have you ever heard of a teenager who didn't know any straight people and was wondering if they might be straight so they looked in Misplaced Pages for a list of straight people? --Samuel Wantman 08:37, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
This is a category not a list and Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia not a clinic. Oliver Chettle 14:19, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
Identifying people as heterosexual is inherent in references to their spouses and children, for one thing. Heterosexuality doesn't need a special flag to point it out; it's already the default assumption about anybody who isn't specifically noted as not heterosexual. Bearcat 06:04, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  1. Deleting the category ultimately boils down to believing that it's less POV to kowtow to other people's homophobia than it is to identify gay people as gay, which is absolutely indefensible. It is homophobia to believe that a person's sexual orientation needs to be hidden at all costs.
If that's why you vote to delete categories, that's your business. My reasons are my own, and by the way, you're wrong. As for keeping sexual orientation hidden, that's a load of crap. You want to point out someone is gay, I have no problem putting it in the article. But even then, there should be a good reason for it, otherwise every article about every person would start, "So-and-so, who is gay/straight/whatever..." --Kbdank71 16:29, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  1. If somebody is added to the category in error, the solution is to remove them, not to erase the whole category. It's no different than if a town in Ohio were mistakenly added to Category:Communities in Wyoming. It doesn't invalidate the category; it simply means somebody was added in error. It is homophobia to suggest that identifying gay people as gay is any different than identifying towns in Ohio as towns in Ohio.
Go read the first few lines from the homophobia article. You don't know me from Adam, and yet you are making assumptions that I'm homophobic. Now if all you wanted to do is berate me for my vote, then hey, you're doing a great job. If you wanted to possibly change my mind by coherently bringing up valid points from your side of the discussion, you're failing miserably. --Kbdank71 16:29, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
Hah. Right. If you think I don't know anything about what homophobia is, you're making uninformed assumptions about me, too. Bearcat 06:04, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
Being a town and being in Ohio are the two primary characteristics of a town in Ohio. The same does not apply to this category. Only a tiny fraction of the articles are about people who are notable because of their sexuality. Oliver Chettle 14:22, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
"Notable because of sexuality" is not a necessary precondition to list someone in an LGBT category; being notable and being of that sexuality, as two facts both true and yet independent of each other, is entirely sufficient. Bearcat 06:04, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Want I should keep going? Bearcat 16:03, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Nah, not really. I just wanted to vote, not get beat about the head by the homophobia stick. Wrongly, I might add. --Kbdank71 16:29, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Reason given in prior CfD:
This "information" is often suspect and very often irrelevant. It doesn't deserve this prominence. It is not disseminated in a spirit of neutrality but rather in a spirit of activism.
The criteria established for this set of categories was that:
1. The person's sexuality must have influenced their life in some notable way.
2. The person's sexuality, and its relation to their work, must be mentioned in the article - no randomly adding the tag to an article that has no mention of their sexuality.
3. We don't get to go very far back in history, due to questions about the relevance of attributing modern concepts of sexuality to premodern people.
I think this pretty well covers the 'suspect' and 'irrelevant' parts of the complaint.
As far as prominence, a tag at the bottom of a page hardly counts as prominent. Further, articles on Alan Turing, Simone de Beauvoir, and Quentin Crisp are hardly complete without mention of their sexuality. And, as pointed out elsewhere, gay and lesbian scholarship is becoming mainstream. This information is relevant and useful to some people. As far as the spirit in which it is disseminated, look, it doesn't matter why someone adds content. What matters is what they add. Instead of attacking the people who add content, why not question the validity of the content its self? To do otherwise is POV. -Seth Mahoney 16:16, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
  • Seth, thank you. That's what I was looking for. I'll take your comments into consideration before the vote ends. --Kbdank71 16:32, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Rename as suggested - as Seth points out, GLBT studies are growing in prominence and it's useful for scholarship purposes, especially under the criteria listed, where a person's sexuality particularly informs his or her actions. Minor point though: shouldn't it be "transgendered people" instead of "transgender people"? --khaosworks 02:06, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
  • You're probably right. "Transgendered people" is used throughout Transgender. -Seth Mahoney 02:51, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
  • I personally delete the -ed from transgendered whenever I encounter it (if I edit anyway), but transgendered exists. However, I see no reason to promote that -ed myself; we use gay and not gayed etc, so why transgendered? It's something you are and not something you are made. Google too shows slightly more "transgender people" (136,000] than "transgendered people" (121,000), so I think we should stick to that one. -- AlexR 08:15, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep this category. Do not delete it. CDThieme
  • Is this intended to only serve as a parent category for specific subcategories, or is the subject of an article going to be effectively "classified" as "either gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered"? That's really not all that informative. I'm all for inclusiveness, but that's the semantic equivalent of placing Bill Clinton in Category:U.S. Presidents, Senators, or Chief Justices. Yes, there are common issues of gender/sexuality, but it's not such a singular group that it works as a en masse classification. I say delete especially if renamed as proposed above, but delete even if not, because I adhere to the position that sexual orientation is not an encyclopedic classification for individuals any more than one's race or religion. I strongly resent the attempt to throw insults of homophobia into this. It is a wholly ignorant assumption that if you're oppose a LGBT category, you must be against LGBT people in general. Postdlf 16:54, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I think that the issue of whether or not to use specific categories for specific types of people is up in the air. The categories Category:Gay writers, Category:Lesbian writers, Category:Bisexual writers, and Category:Transgender and transsexual writers do exist, and I'd personally like to see all appropriate categories follow this model. But a whole host of them were just deleted (if I read that discussion correctly), so who knows? Regardless, I appreciate your feelings on the subject of the encyclopedia-ness of someone's sexual orientation, but the following facts do remain:
1. For some people, their sexual orientation is not only appropriate but necessary in an article about them. Examples include Quentin Crisp, Harvey Milk, and Alan Turing.
2. Gay and lesbian scholarship is something people are doing, and if we are working on this encyclopedia as a reference, then (among other changes, like heavy documentation of articles and always citing references) this sort of categorization is useful. I've always seen categories as a way of indexing articles for easier lookup, not as a way of saying "this is such and such", and to me adding Category: Gay writers to Quentin Crisp makes sense for that reason. Likewise with Category: LGBT rights activists for Harvey Milk. The fact is that Quentin Crisp was a gay writer and Harvey Milk was a gay rights activist, but to me categorizing them as such isn't so much a matter of making the article this or that, but rendering it more accessible to those that are interested in this sort of research.
So, I don't know if you're arguing for the removal of all GLBT people categories, but if you are I hope you'll reconsider, because there are very good reasons for including at least some of them. -Seth Mahoney 20:54, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep for all the reasons already mentioned by Bearcat and others and another which I believe is very important: It is a useful category. Is there a legitimate reason why someone would want to see this list? I can think of several, but the most important one is for all the teenagers wondering about their orientation who do not know any LGBT people and have no source of information other than what they can find on the internet. I became a teenager in 1969 and reading the articles about all the people on the list would have made my life quite a bit easier. I also believe it is up to each minority to determine how they want to be classified and IF they want to be classified. If African-Americans found it offensive to have African-American categories I'd want those views given the most weight. I don't think anyone will be able to convince me that there is no use for the category, and I, as a gay Wikipedian feel strongly that it should exist. I don't care if it is LGBT or GLBT as long as it exists. (BTW, I think LGBT is the most common term in the LGBT community.) Frankly, I don't understand quite a bit of the enthusiasm many people have for deleting things in Misplaced Pages. This category takes up a tiny bit of space what is the pressing need to delete it? -- Samuel Wantman 07:56, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Agree, I never understood how the subcats got deleted in such a clandestine vote in the first place. I'd decidedly vote for an undelete there. -- AlexR 08:15, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
Please keep in mind that this vote is to move the page, not to delete the page. Dysprosia 09:03, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
To be clear, I support a Rename. -- Samuel Wantman 23:33, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
I know, I meant this to apply generally to this vote. Dysprosia 13:02, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Heh, looks like you can't quite pay attention to what is going on just above this vote, eh, Oliver? Nonetheless, the accuracy isn't actually in question, nor is the relevancy, so long as the guidelines above are kept. As far as being created purely as propaganda, that's been covered above too. This is one slight irritation I have with the Misplaced Pages voting process: Its a lot like American politics. Anyone can come in at any moment and say whatever they want and not back it up without having any clue as to what has gone on before they arrived, and they're still taken seriously. Ah, well. -Seth Mahoney 18:23, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. --Spinboy 16:45, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete in this form and return to an inclusive term as used previously such as "LGBT people", indeed some people tick all four at the same time! Whilst I'm at it, use the acronym rather than a form of the expansion as it would be unwieldly to enter and prone to probable mistyping (and hence loss of linkage). --Vamp:Willow 23:57, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete I really don't like these sort of "categorisation of people" categories - and do not see any advantage of grouping gays and bisexuals with transgendereds. It's one thing if the people who will be added to this category are activists in this area - in which case "people" should be replaced with "activists", but it's another if they are famous and well-known for other things and just happen to be gay or bisexual. And even if they are gay and bisexual, who's to say they would welcome being grouped with transgendered, which is different from gay, which is also different from bisexual. For me, the same would go for categorisation by religion, race, sex and preferred football team - unless we can replace "people" with "activist" we shouldn't be using these categories, jguk 07:29, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep/Rename as suggested by Seth. Highly useful category for research - and, of course, the aforementioned teenagers. And I think I'd support an undelete of the subcategories. Tobyox 10:37, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep & Rename. I'd mention that it's just bizarre that people have been making "Delete" votes for a proposed renaming action. A deletion action was proposed, and rejected, just two weeks ago. TreyHarris 23:54, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Either keep this category as it is or rename it and undelete the subcategories. Lumping transgender people in with gays and lesbians in a category such as this is often inaccurate. I have known many transgender people who consider themselves straight but are still transgender. One way or another we need a category for GLB people and a cateogry for transgender people. -- Redfarmer 15:41, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep as is. --Spinboy 19:16, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Move to Category:Gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender people --Mike C | talk 10:36, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Asiamiles

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:05, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Duplicates Category:Asia Miles; only article was Dragonair, and only as a legacy. --choster 21:25, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:New York Highlanders

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:06, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added on Apr 8 by User:MisfitToys. --Kbdank71 18:47, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Restaurants in Utah

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:09, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added on Dec 3 by User:Postdlf. --Kbdank71 16:07, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete. (surprise!) Unnecessary subcategorization. There is an appropriately limited Category:Companies based in Utah, and only three of its thirteen articles are restaurants. Even if there were enough restaurants based in Utah, the broadly named present category would include everything that has a franchise there, and I doubt we want McDonald's, for example, to have hundreds of categories for every country and state where one is located. Postdlf 16:58, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Rocky Mountains of Colorado

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:09, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added on Apr 24 by User:Decumanus. --Kbdank71 15:59, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Westminster system of government

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:16, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

The name is a duplicate of Category:Westminster System, but the content seems to be institutions specific to Ireland. Perhaps a more specific title would work. - SimonP 15:57, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:School stub

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:10, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. Cfd notice added on Feb 24 by User:Icairns. --Kbdank71 15:33, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Reptile stubs

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:55, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

This should have been created (by me) as Category:Reptile and amphibian stubs, since that is what it contains. I would therefore like it to be moved there. --Stemonitis 07:22, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:TRIZ

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 15:14, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Content of the category page is "TRIZ".

TRIZ seems to be a Russian management buzzword. The article on TRIZ is very badly written and overinflates its importance (the author had added it to 20 different categories, like "Science", "Skills", "Humans", etc.). I highly doubt that this is deserving of a whole category. RSpeer 03:44, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

The listing here is specifically about the category Category:TRIZ. I think there should be a single article on TRIZ (most of the articles that were in Category:TRIZ are not about TRIZ at all), and therefore the category should not exist. RSpeer 20:01, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Napoleonic wars French commanders killed in battle

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 15:14, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

There are only two articles listed in this category, and seeing how only two of Napoleon's marshals were killed in battle, there is no chance of expansion.*Kat* 03:36, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

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< May 2 May 4 >

May 3

Category:Gay Sex Classifieds

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:16, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

One entry, and that irrelevant. --bjh21 23:46, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete, empty K1Bond007 21:35, May 5, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I have no idea what would go in this category, and the description - "The perfect way to get the wang." - is most unhelpful. --Azkar 00:38, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:South Korean Newspapers

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:16, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. CfD notice was added on Dec 18. --Kbdank71 20:43, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Standards bodies

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. CfD notice was added on February 24. --Kbdank71 20:37, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Star Trek Starfleet ship classes

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The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 15:59, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

CfR notice was added on May 2. Anon wants to rename to Category:Federation Starfleet ship classes --Kbdank71 20:34, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Swedish comedians

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. CfD notice was added on March 9. --Kbdank71 20:23, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Towns of Abruzzo

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. CfD notice was added on December 4. --Kbdank71 19:44, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Towns of Bahia state

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. CfD notice was added on December 4. --Kbdank71 19:44, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Towns of Basilicata

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The result of the debate was move info to list --Kbdank71 15:44, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. CfD notice was added on December 4. --Kbdank71 19:35, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
Reinstate please - Thank You very much. I just discovered this empty page today on the towns in the Region of Basilicata and so I have entered the names of the towns divided by province. --San Fele 02:25, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Err .. the content on this page should be moved to a list. If there aren't articles about these towns to put in this category, delete it after listing. --Azkar 02:38, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Towns of Denmark

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The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 15:33, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

CfR notice was added on April 2. Rename to Category:Towns in Denmark --Kbdank71 19:31, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Towns of Luxembourg

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The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 15:33, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

CfR notice was added on April 2. Rename to Category:Towns in Luxembourg --Kbdank71 19:28, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Turkish submarines

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. CfD notice was added on December 3. Duplicate of Category:Turkish Navy submarines --Kbdank71 19:09, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Unidentified celestial bodies

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty. CfD notice was added on March 10 with edit summary of superseded by categ Astronomical objects --Kbdank71 17:30, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Villages in Sussex

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 15:06, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

CfD notice was added on February 17 by creator. Edit summary: created in error - didn't spot the West / East Sussex divide --Kbdank71 17:12, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Villages in Georgia

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

CfD notice was added on March 20. Empty; replaced with Category:Villages in Georgia (U.S. state) --Kbdank71 17:12, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Wallachian voivodes

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

CfD notice was added on December 2. Empty category. --Kbdank71 16:58, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Windows-only games

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

CfD notice was added on April 3rd. Empty category. --Kbdank71 16:35, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete, empty and not all that useful. K1Bond007 07:01, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Yukoners

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:40, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

CfD notice was added on April 20th, but it was never listed here. Edit summary: redundant & orphan category see category:People from Yukon --Kbdank71 16:21, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:South Australian Education

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:40, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Duplication of a correctly named, pre-existing category Category:Education in South Australia. Should be deleted.

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Category:Streets_in_Warsaw

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 13:16, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Made obsolete by Category:Streets and squares of Warsaw. Halibutt 05:00, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

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< May 1 May 3 >

May 2

Category:Invented sports

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 19:39, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

It seems like a useless category. All sports are invented sports, and this category seems neither informative or useful. Wikibofh 23:23, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Ottawa, Ontario

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 19:04, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Now empty category, with hard redirect to Category:Ottawa. RussBlau 23:01, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Biodiversity hotspot

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 19:04, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Now empty category, duplicative of Category:Biodiversity hotspots. RussBlau 22:50, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Muckrackers, Category:Early muckrackers, & Category:Contemporary muckrackers

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The result of the debate was delete "Muckrackers" and "contemporary muckrackers", no consensus on "early muckrackers" --Kbdank71 19:13, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

They're all misspelt, of course, but the term "muckraker" is PoV and (despite the rosy picture painted in the Misplaced Pages article, which conflicts with all the other reference works at which I've looked) negative. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:47, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete. --Kbdank71 13:44, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Muckraker is not really negative; although "just a muckraker" could be negative today, "a great muckraker" is an expression one finds very often. There is a huge gulf between socially-conscious investigative journalism and scandal-sheet reporting. I think "muckraker" may sometimes be used rather loosely in a contemporary context for the latter, but this is not the meaning in a historical context. Keep at least for 'Early muckrackers' which is a well defined historical group of investigative journalists in the U.S., although perhaps this should be renamed to Category:U.S. Progressive Era muckrakers or something like that.--Pharos 22:16, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Weak delete, although I see the sense in renaming the second one as Pharos suggests. -Sean Curtin 01:28, May 6, 2005 (UTC)
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Category:British Rule in Hong Kong

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 19:04, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Should be renamed category:British rule in Hong Kong, as per Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (capitalisation). — Instantnood 21:29, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:ANSI

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 19:04, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Zero articles under this category. --minghong 18:33, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Visual art techniques

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 19:58, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Redundant of Category:Artistic techniques, to which I've moved all articles, so Visual art techniques is now an empty category. --sparkit (talk) 14:31, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Japanese stubs

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 19:04, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty duplicate of Category:Japan-related stubs Grutness| 10:27, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Executed Napoleonic wars French commanders

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 19:58, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Only two articles in this category. Since there were only two Marshals executed, there won't be anymore added. *Kat* 08:34, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete. Extreme example of overcategorization. I can't even see this narrow of a topic surviving as an independent list article. Postdlf 08:11, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
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< April 30 May 2 >

May 1

Category:Lists of people with the same name

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 17:59, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

I can't see why anyone would want to search for an article on someone who shares their name with someone else, jguk 11:58, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

The Pope Benedict page might have been quite popular these days (it even got a duplicate page), but one might want to see them as a subset of Disambiguation_pages_with_links to work on. -- User:Docu
I suppose both of your suggestions would just give the same work, for no benefit to you, so we might as well keep the category? Anyways, there is an advantage in keeping {{disambig}} on all disambiguation pages and the category can also go on pages that are not disambiguation pages. We should obviously remove Category:Disambiguation from pages where it had been added directly (e.g. A. J. Cook). -- User:Docu
Delete Disambiguation servers a purpose, and can take place within the article or on a separate page. Listing "people with the same name" serves no purpose. Dystopos 17:37, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
Delete Disambiguation serves the same purpose. I don't see a person looking up a list of people with the same name. Gorrister 17:54, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Coming of age films

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The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 14:52, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

I believe that, for correct grammar, this should be called Category:Coming-of-age films (the way it is now it means "age films that are coming" or something like that). — Timwi 09:24, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Field Marshals of Germany

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The result of the debate was no consensus (keep) --Kbdank71 18:45, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

An anon (83.109.129.114 (talk · contribs)) has created this category on April 30, re-categorized all articles in Category:Field Marshals of Nazi Germany and placed a {{cfd}} on the latter, but apparently without listing it here. I propose to undo this change and delete the new Category:Field Marshals of Germany: The term "Nazi Germany" is helpful to distinguish it from other periods in German history. Also, they were indeed Field Marshalls of Nazi Germany, even if not all of them were members of the NSDAP. Lupo 07:39, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Middle East Airlines

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The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 14:57, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Either Rename it as Category:Airlines of the Middle East, in line with the way the rest of the categories are named under Category:Airlines. In addition, the category is confusing, because there is an airline by the same name (Middle East Airlines). Alternatively, we can also Delete the category and move the entries to Category:Airlines of Asia.--Huaiwei 06:32, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Airlines of Caribbean and Central America

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The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 14:59, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Either Rename as Category:Airlines of the Caribbean and Central America, a grammatical issue, or Delete and merge into Category:Airlines of North America. There are not many entries in the later, and it is probably better to have less subcategories than required.--Huaiwei 06:32, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Airlines of Australasia and Pacific

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The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 15:02, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Either Rename as Category:Airlines of Australasia and the Pacific (another grammatical issue), or Rename as Category:Airlines of Oceania. Shorter, and probably under less dispute?--Huaiwei 06:43, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes and no... Australia and Papua New Guinea aren't frequently considered part of Oceania (New Zealand is in oceania if you;'re a New Zealander, but in Australasia if you're an Australian). Perhaps Category:Airlines of Australasia and Oceania would be better. Grutness| 00:53, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
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< April 29 May 1 >

April 30

Category:Elections in the Republic of Ireland

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The result of the debate was no consensus (keep) --Kbdank71 14:21, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Voting results:

"Rename" (5): Jtdirl, Djegan, File Eireann, Noisy, Kiand

"Keep" (4): Oliver Chettle, Instandnood, HenryGb, Kbdank71

No consensus. Default is to keep

This category is unworkable in this format. Users may not realise but what is now the Republic of Ireland has had 8 names, some of them overlapping. This category using this name can rightly only cover elections since 1 April 1949 when that name was adopted. So many of the elections on it should not be in it as they did not take in somwhere called the Republic of Ireland. Creating sub-categories won't solve the problem as some names (eg, the Irish Republic had only 2 elections, one of whom would also technically belong in a category called Southern Ireland.) Unless we create 8 categories for Irish elections, the best solution is to put them all into a category Category:Elections in Ireland. Unfortunately a vote earlier decided not to do that and delete that category, largely from what I can gather because people didn't understand the many names changes Ireland has had. Either that or we create Category:Elections in the Lordship of Ireland, Category:Elections in the Kingdom of Ireland, Category:Irish elections in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Category:Elections in the Irish Republic (1919-1922), Category:Elections in Southern Ireland (1921-1922), Category:Elections in the Irish Free State, Category:Elections in Eire (1937-1949) and the current Category:Elections in the Republic of Ireland or we simply create one category, Category:Elections in Ireland that will cover them all, and allow subcategories by type of elections. Right now the most important election in Irish history cannot be put in the current category on Irish elections because it occured 21 years before the modern republic in the caregory title was proclaimed, and so is orphaned. FearÉIREANN 20:00, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Oppose I believe there is a political agenda at work here, part of an ongoing attempt to create a category system for Ireland which legitimises the Republican claim to the whole of the island of Ireland. If FearÉIREANN (who parades his lack of neutrality for all to see) thinks he needs eight categories, he should create eight categories. It isn't that hard. I have created more than that in the last twenty-four hours. Oliver Chettle 05:49, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
That is pananoid rubbish, so ridiculous it is beggars belief. The only issue is that at present, elections like the 1918 one are orphaned. They can't be categorised under this name of this article. Neither can the 1932, 1938, 1943 or 1944 elections. Nor can any in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th or 19th centuries. It would be ridiculous to create 8 categories, when some of the states' names overlap, meaning that elections after 1949 would belong in both the Éire category and the Republic category, the 1922 election would belong in three - the Irish Republic, Sourthern Ireland and the Irish Free State. Finally using one's national colours in one's username does not mean one is not neutral. I've spent much of the last few weeks working on British royal pages and tonight took republican propaganda from a page on the Irish famine. Mr Chettle's grasp of colour schemes is as shaky as his grasp of Irish history. FearÉIREANN 07:15, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
It isn't paranoid at all. There have been several attempts to destroy Northern Ireland categories as if it is not a legitimate entity, such as category:Geography of Northern Ireland and Category:Rivers in Northern Ireland. You have given no valid reason not to create eight categories. There is no rule against putting an article in three categories. It has been agreed that Republic of Ireland only articles should be in Republic of Ireland categories. Oliver Chettle 16:20, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
That is exactly the point. But the Republic of Ireland only came into existence in 1949. It isn't a new change of state, of constitution, only a technical change. The 1948 election had the same electorate, same state and same electoral system as the 1951. Not even the ballot paper changed. So why should it be in a different category? And what name would be used, as the name of the state in the constitution in 1937 is Ireland? Using United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland is problematic for the 1921 election as the majority of the electors had rejected membership of that state. Using Southern Ireland is problematic because that state only existed on paper for 18 months. Using Irish Republic is problematic because that was an illegal state that didn't call the election. So how the heck do you categorise the 1921 election? The issue has absolutely nothing to do with Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland was created in the Government of Ireland Act, 1920 so all its elections belong in their own category. But whereas all elections there from 1921 can be kept together under one name, there is no one name that can be applied for elections outside NI. Southern Ireland is POV and anyway only could cover 1921-22 when it was abolished. The Free State only covers until 1937. The Republic covers from 1949. The 26 counties is a loaded Sinn Féin term that is too controversial. Elections in Ireland is the only workable category. It can cover all the elections on the island up to partition, and those outside NI from then on. NI could be used as a crossover subcategory in both British and Irish elections categories. That is the obvious NPOV way of doing it. But coming up with paranoid rubbish about it being some master plot to shaft Northern Ireland on wikipedia is diluded childish paranoia. FearÉIREANN 23:08, 1 May 2005 (UTC)


Fergananim here. Before I chance my arm on a vote, I need a clearer understanding of the issues concerned from those who have taken an interest in this article. Namely, Oliver Chettle and FearÉIREANN

Here is the situation as I understand it; feel free to comment if you feel I am wandering off-target or have it arseways.

Ireland is the offical name of the country that occupys the greater part of the island of Ireland. It is a republic, and soverign.

Northern Ireland is part of the country called the United Kingdom, or UK for short. As the name UK implies, Northern Ireland is a full and integrated unit of this county. As part of the UK, Northern Ireland occupys the north and north-eastern part of the island of Ireland.

Ireland - which we will henceforth refer to as the Republic of Ireland or just the Republic - and Northern Ireland are, thus, two distinct political units.

Because Ireland is the name of the island and the name of the Republic covering much of the island, AND part of the name denoting that part of the UK on the island of Ireland, there cannot but fail to be confusion.

Therefore - it seems to me - that we must have a very clear understanding of what we mean when we say "Ireland", and "elections in Ireland" (plus variant of same). So please, refer back to me on your understanding of these terms, in explanations as simple as possible.

Oliver's concerns are that there is (quote) "a political agenda at work here, part of an ongoing attempt to create a category system for Ireland which legitimises the Republican claim to the whole of the island of Ireland."

Now, could Oliver explain who he means by Republican? I take it he means Sinn Fein and/or the SDLP, because neither the Republic nor any of its partys endorse the idea of a United Ireland. FearEireann calls his fears paranoid rubbish, but it is a fact that among more hardcore Republican partys, the ideal of a United Ireland (which would necessarily mean the political destruction of Northern Ireland) is openly stated as a goal.

These partys - okay, Sinn Fein - have besides their actual activities used demeaning terms such as 'statelet' and more besides to deigerate a valid political term and unit. The same tactic has being used in their description of the Republic of Ireland as "the 26 countys", and other terms besides.

In effect I am saying that actually, FearEireann, Oliver's concerns are neither paranoid nor rubbish but quite vaild and from his point of veiw, correct.

To anticipate a question of yours, Oliver, it may be said that certain partys in the Republic speck of a United Ireland. However, these are little more than lip service to an old idea which has little practical application in reality. In the words of one well-know politician from the Republic - "Who the hell wants a millon and a half angry Unionists in the Republic? Sure hav'nt we enough troubles as it is with Ryanair?"

In any case, my own personal view of the matter is that as a result of the Belfast Agreement of 1998, in which the Republic of Ireland gave up any and all claim to the north, the Republic became, de facto, a united Ireland. And again, in a personal capacity, I have no problem with a United Ireland based on consent, but there is no historical basis for such a state and, as I said, I feel we have already achieved a united Ireland. But please people, file your arguments on this under the relevant heading, and not here.

I am not yet commiting myself to a vote, but surely it is obvious that we must deal with elections held on the island of Ireland under the heading of its various political units over the centuries, and, in the case of the Republic and Northern Ireland, seperatly? After all, they are quite distinct and are of two different countrys. Does it not then boil down to a meat and potatos matter of classification? Fergananim

So keep the wrong name and add a PS - we know it is the wrong name. Just pretend that it isn't, ignore the name and add in articles that predate the Republic of Ireland. And have the current reversions that are happening to pre-1949 election articles, where users keep deleting the category saying 'these elections did not happen in the Republic of Ireland'. That solution is amateurish, inaccurate and non-encyclopaedic. FearÉIREANN 19:19, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Move to Elections in Ireland, it is the name of the island, despite what anyone else may try to say in claims and accustations. Kiand 22:46, 2 May 2005 (UTC) (a non-Catholic ulsterman, just to add more fuel here...)

At least we can agree on what to call the island! Any suggestions for the categorys under that heading? Fergananim

  • Keep and as suggested (with an NPOV tweak) say in the intro: "this covers elections since 1918/1921/1922 in what is now called the Republic of Ireland" --Henrygb 02:16, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

But seeing as it was not the Republic at that time, on what basis should those elections be included while those from 1922 to 1949 - which is implied - be left out? Fergananim

  • Keep Category:Elections in the Republic of Ireland. --Kbdank71 14:55, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Kbdan71, you vote to keep it as Category:Elections in the Republic of Ireland but do not explain your reasons why. Could you do so? Thank you. Fergananim.
      • Sure. An island does not have elections, a country does. Along those same lines, this category is a member of Category:Elections by country, not Category:Elections by landmass. Thirdly, we just had a CfD and the consensus was to delete Elections in Ireland. --Kbdank71 19:04, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
          • Simply because YOU had a CfD - in which the Irish vote was negligible - does not mean that another vote cannot be held. You'll have to try harder because your above ideas are seafoid. Fergananim
        • For 800 years the 'island' and 'country' were on and the same and the elections were called 'Irish'. There are now two states on the island. One is called Northern Ireland. One is called Ireland in its constitution, by the European Union, the United Nations, the United States, the Council of Europe and 114 states internationally, not to mention sports bodies from the International Olympic Committee to the rugby nations worldwide (including England, Scotland and Wales). That state's constitution no longer makes any claim over Northern Ireland, nor does any of the entities presume that Ireland refers to Northern Ireland except when geographically referring to the island or historically referring to the island pre-1922. As to that supposed consensus, it was a consensus of users whose comments showed they did not understand that the 'Republic of Ireland' is not the right nomenclature to refer to anything that happened in Ireland pre-1949. It was a debate based on serious inaccuracies. The fact that few Irish people were aware of the debate, much less took part, allowed the inaccuracies and mistaken grasp of history to be pushed as fact, hence the need to overturn that patently wrong result here. FearÉIREANN 22:35, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
          • You'll Love This!!! I see you've been soliciting for votes. Surely you won't mind if I contact a few myself? By the way, if Republic of Ireland isn't right for anything that happened pre-1949, why don't you create a category that is right? Basically, we can create the correct categories and subcategories and be accurate, or take your approach and be "kind-of-but-not-really" accurate. While we're lumping everything together, why not just get rid of all of the elections categories and create "Elections on the Planet Earth"? Has a nice ring to it. (that last part was sarcasm, by the way, no need to tell people how someone is saying we should really do that) --Kbdank71 13:08, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
              • How can an intelligent conclusion and vote be arrived at unless as many Irish people, who known their nation's history, be solicited? You imply that he did something low and underhanded in this, when in fact he should be applauded. Fergananim
            • Because, Kbdank71, there is no one name that can describe the various states on the island other than Northern Ireland, as has been repeatedly pointed. If there was, then we wouldn't need this debate. FearÉIREANN 17:21, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
              • So let's use "Ireland" as a supercategory, and create whatever else we need, including "Republic of Ireland", as subcategories. So we have eight of them (or however many), so what? Is it accurate? That's what we should be aiming for. --Kbdank71 17:58, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
                • Good idea. And for the period between the abolition of the Irish Free State in 1937 and the creation of the Republic in 1949 we then use the name of the state in the constitution, which is . . . um . . . . Ireland. So Elections in Ireland would have a subcategory Elections in Ireland. Interesting idea. lol. FearÉIREANN 18:04, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
                    • Kbdank71, I was acting on the assumption that you were either Irish or have a good knowledge of Irish affairs. After all, how else can you vote intelligently? But you and at least one other poster seem to consistantly miss the point. Please, take a deep breath, and READ the points raised in favor of deletion. Thank you. Fergananim.
  • Delete the category for "Republic of Ireland" and use "Ireland" instead for all states from "Irish Republic". My reasoning is that "Republic of Ireland" is a discriptor and can be applied to that state only after April 1949 - to use it before then is wrong. Creating a multitude of subcatgories is uncalled for - this is where wikipedia really falls down. In particular "Irish Republic" and "Southern Ireland" had such short duration and fuzzy status that we would only be creating categories for the sake of it. "Eire" is totally inappropriate as this is not the states name, in English, irrespective of ideas to the contrary. Categories should not be created uncontrolled to confound, confuse and as pet-projects by people - a category "Ireland" is more than appropriate as the state is "in Ireland" (and notwithstanding that Ireland is the states official name in English since 1937) and this can cover a wide variety of states over time - how it offends or is a conspiracy is beyond me? Djegan 18:25, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
I do not think so - Éire does not cover everything from 1921 - it was first used officially in 1937 and it is an Irish language word and not the states official name in English which is "Ireland". In English Éire is at best the British constitutional name for Ireland 1937 to 1949 and not a name worthy of a category. Djegan 14:56, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
I would not entirely discount this suggestion. The main point is that there is no such country as the Republic of Ireland. To quote Article 4 of Bunreacht na hEireann, "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.", hence either Eire or Ireland would suffice. As this is an English wiki, Ireland would be better, but Eire would do, I suppose. Filiocht | Blarneyman 15:09, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
I have an objection to Eire, which is both that a: this is en:, not ga:; and b: its almost solely used in an insulting sense by people these days. People in Ireland would never use it, and I've found most of us find it insulting. Kiand 15:25, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
I'd agree wit a:, but I have to say that I do not find it insulting. However, I have a clear preference for Ireland in this context and find Republic of Ireland completely unacceptable for reasons already given. Filiocht | Blarneyman 15:33, May 4, 2005 (UTC)
I think Éire would be a mistake. i. It would not cover any elections before 1937; ii. It is used in a rather condescending tone by some British newspapers in a way that has caused a negative reaction in Ireland, so it would cause offence and would trigger off endless reversion wars from Irish people who would be deeply offended by its use. Though it technically could be used, the way it is used provokes the sort of reaction that one would get, for example, if one called Germany 'Krautland' or France 'Frogland'. It is used by some anti-Irish elements in a rather snide way, a way they also use Southern Ireland or the way some Irish republicans call Northern Ireland the Occupied Six Counties. FearÉIREANN 17:21, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
Fair comment, but it is still our language. We have noting to be ashamed of in calling our country Éire, should we so choose. Rather, those who use it in an offensive manner are the ones making themselves look and sound like amadans for being so culturally clueless and uncivilised. Fergananim
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Category:Analysis

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:02, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Empty (and orphan) category. The article Analysis is a disambiguation page. Any articles relating to a particular form of analysis ought to be put in a category relating to that particular form, rather than this potentially ambiguous category.RussBlau 19:36, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Former members of the Hitler Youth

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:26, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

The page was created solely to put Pope Benedict XVI in it. Everyone was member of the HJ, shall we have 8 million people here? They were only HJ members because they were forced to (well, most of them, at least). "Category:German conscripts in WW2" would make a lot more sense, but should also be unnecessary. This category is as ridiculous as "Category:People attending school in Germany". --83

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Category:Stock.xchgn images

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:49, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Misspelled variant of Category:Stock.xchng images. -- Rick Block 17:22, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Chrysler Corporation of Canada automobiles

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:49, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Essentially redundant with slightly more general Category:Canadian automobiles. -- Rick Block 17:16, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Scandals_suffixed_with_gate

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 15:15, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

I think generally bad idea covers it. -- Rick Block 17:13, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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Category:United States history (terrorism)

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 15:27, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Contains only a talk page, and seems like an invitation to POV arguments. -- Rick Block 16:19, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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category:Country Parks

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The result of the debate was rename --Kbdank71 16:50, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

To comply with Misplaced Pages's (misguided) capitalisation policy this should be category:Country parks. CalJW 16:16, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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Category:U.S. history (20th century)

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 16:50, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Does not follow existing subcategorization structure (topical) of category:United States history. Both articles in this category are also in category:Prohibition which is a subcat of category:United States history. -- Rick Block 16:14, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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Category:U.S. War against Al-Qaeda

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 15:40, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

POV-named category with only one included article. Existing categories mean this is not necessary. violet/riga (t) 11:10, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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Category:U.S. War on Terrorism

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 15:40, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

POV-named category with only one included article. Existing categories mean this is not necessary. violet/riga (t) 11:10, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The word POV is thrown around an awful lot. How exactly are these category titles POV? -SV|t 16:22, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Because it blatantly implies that the U.S. are the only ones doing it. violet/riga (t) 17:02, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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Category:U.S. Iraq War

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 15:40, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

POV-named category with only one included article. Existing categories mean this is not necessary. violet/riga (t) 11:10, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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Category:Free Windows web browsers and Category:Free Windows web servers

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 16:38, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

This should be deleted. The creator misunderstood the term "free", mixing up free software and freeware. The original categories like Category:Windows web browsers and Category:Free Windows software is already clear enough to tell that this software is free and is for Windows. --minghong 08:32, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The creator did not 'misunderstand'. If you look at the history of the Xenu's Link Sleuth article, you will see that I reverted my own adjustment to differentiate correctly between freeware and free software. This was timed before I created the category 'Free Windows web browsers'. I also edited the definitions of the two categories 'Free software' and 'Freeware' to 'See also' to the other - so that this definition could be more widely recognised.
The category 'Free Windows web browsers' was created as a sub-category of the existing category 'Free Windows software' using that category's definition of Free. All articles in 'Free windows web browsers' were previously articles in 'Free Windows software'. As such, category 'Free Windows web browsers' is also a subcategory of 'Windows web browsers'. The reason for creating the subcategory was that the 'Free Windows software article was large and needed some subcategorisation of its articles.
If you have a problem with this category, then you have a problem with the definition of 'Free' in the previous category: 'Free Windows software'; you will have a problem with category 'Free Windows web servers' which was created around the same time. Ian Cairns 09:57, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't get the point of this category at all. You're creating a subcategory of "Windows web browsers" that covers almost all Windows web browsers. All that accomplishes is to make it a little harder for people to find related articles. ¶ I'm reluctant to go near the semantic argument -- the meaning of the term "free software" is one of those ideological debates people argue forever without really accomplishing anything. I think it's enough to say that the semantic issue isn't important enough to create a subcategory that hinders browsing the way this one does. ---Isaac R 16:31, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Add Category:Free Windows web servers. Ian Cairns, if you categorize like this, you'll end up hundreds of subcategories, e.g. Free Windows text editors, Commerical Windows text editors, Freeware Windows text editors, Shareware Windows text editors. --minghong 18:03, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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Category:2003 Iraq conflict

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The result of the debate was duplicate listing --Kbdank71 14:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

This should be renamed to Category:U.S. Iraq War. Category: Iraq War should redirect to above. The Persian Gulf War is distinct enough from the above to override criticism of similarity. The term "2003 Iraq conflict" omits the dominance of US involvement, asserts that the current conflict in Iraq are of a separate context than those of 2003, and hence is a POV categorization. -SV|t 02:01, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Oppose - see above nominations. violet/riga (t) 11:08, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Note: This is already listed on April 27th. Please vote there. --Kbdank71 14:43, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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Category:U.S Iraq relations

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:02, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Should be pruned for U.S. Iraq War war-specific topics, as the term "relations" is not an NPOV euphemis for "war" or "conflict".

I suspect this should really be Category:U.S.-Iraqi relations. Stevertigo tagged the category so they were probably the nominator (no signature at the time of this post). RedWolf 03:48, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)
U.S Iraq relations is the proper form, and "Iraqi" is improper. The issue is pruning these articles of POV use. -SV|t 16:24, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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Category:Dogs as food

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The result of the debate was delete --Kbdank71 14:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Its parent category should be Category:Meat instead of Category:Cuisine, but since both of the articles in this category (Gaegogi and Taboo meat) are already properly listed in Category:Meat, this category becomes redundant. Dr.frog 19:15, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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Cleanup overhead

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Category delete keep other rename to / why
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Delete me

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