User talk:Hipal - Misplaced Pages

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DR

One thing we haven't tried is getting help from related projects, WP:BLPP and the WP:NPR both seem related enough that they might help. --Ronz 14:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, good point. I didn't know WP:BLPP existed. Just added myself. I'm not sure about the NPR members but I know a lot of the BLPP folks. It's a mixed bag - not everyone there is all that strict about BLP.

There's also WP:3O. Perhaps we need an uninvolved admin. User:Uncle G comes to mind. I met him a couple of days ago when patrolling the BLPNB. He doesn't think highly of me, but in hindsight that's actually to his credit. Anyway, we'll see how far we can go with the MedCab case first. I've written to Anthony that I'm game but will be away from 29 April to 6 May. No response so far. AvB ÷ talk 15:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Verio

Hi Ronz. You and I know we are right about Verio :-). However the multiple reverts make me nervous. Someone is counting on no-one else being patient enough to do proper sourcing. According to WP:V he has a point. We could ask for some amount of time to leave the 'sources' banner up before digging up the references. Or, I suppose we could accept the stubbified article. EdJohnston 03:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not going to let an editor's need to make a WP:POINT disrupt others who are trying to improve an article. I don't like the reverts either, but it has shown just how far one editor will go in demonstrating that he will either WP:OWN the article on his terms, or erase everything every editor has done to the article. --Ronz 03:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

By the way, if your ears are burning, it's because you're being discussed on here on AN/I. Just thought you should have a heads-up and it appears no one has notified you. MastCell 03:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm aware. It seems to be going nicely. --Ronz 03:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

These negative personal attacks need to stop. This is not about POINT or OWN. This is about either source the article or remove the un-sourced material. WP:V is very clear about this. The burden of proof is on those who want to include the material. I don't need to start an RfC in oder to remove un-sourced material. If it is common knowledge, than you should have no trouble providing a source. -- Stbalbach 03:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

As a suggestion, you could step back from the article and see what happens? Reluctance to do so does suggest WP:OWN. Shot info 03:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:OWN is policy. WP:POINT is a guideline. You're violating both, and assuming bad faith of multiple editors in order to support your behavior. --Ronz 04:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Again, these personal attacks need to stop. All I've asked is you provide a source for the material you want to add to the article. -- Stbalbach 04:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Stop making a textbook case of an WP:OWN violation. Stop disrupting wikipedia to make a WP:POINT. Stop accusing me of personal attacks. You're bordering on harassment now. Please ensure that any further comments you add here to my talk page are civil and assume good faith, or they will be removed. Thanks. --Ronz 04:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

MDS case

The case was brought to AN/I. -- FayssalF - 12:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Bosnian Pyramid

Am sorry. I was not actively involved in edits on that page. I was just surprised by the amount of criticism those amateur archaeologists were facing. And I dint know the link was on the external links section. Dilip rajeev 07:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Reference postings to "User Interface"

Earlier today, I added the top 2 organizations (UPA and SIGCHI) that cater to people involved in user interface and design - along with a leading independent community site (Catalyze). And you promptly removed them.

I think it is important to provide readers with links to sources outside wikipedia where they can get more information and get involved at a local level.

Should they appear under an External Links section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thumbarger (talk • contribs)

That's not the purpose of Misplaced Pages, helping people get involved in activities.

The article is about user interfaces, so should only include information strongly related to user interfaces. You might notice that such links are included in articles that are better related to them such as Usability Web usability. --Ronz 21:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

There are other issues concerning your edits that I'm bringing up on your talk page. --Ronz 21:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Quackwatch

(Erroneous warning removed). No edit warring here. I've followed WP:DR. --Ronz 14:40, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

It would seem that the edits by MaxPont weren't in good faith afterall but merely an attempt to setup a 3RR warning. Shot info 09:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

It's almost like some editors are willfully ignoring policy while at the same time attacking other editors for not following those very same policies. --Ronz 15:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Autoblock

Y	Your request to be unblocked has been granted for the following reason(s): There has been an issue with autoblocks today; it should be fixed now. Request handled by: —Ryūlóng (竜龍) 22:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! --Ronz 23:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Illyrian Article

You have allredy given this member a warning (some days ago)Edrigu,I strongly advice you to take more aggressive measures otherwise he will continue with his vandalism. Thanx Trojani 22:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Understanding Original Research policies

I just want to let you know that I have been watching the ongoing at Talk Stephan Barrett. I totally understand now why OR is not permitted by the last day's conversations there. It actually finally make sense to me. I just want to let you know because you have taken so much time to help me understand policies here. You were right and I thank you with all your help again. I actually understanding a lot of the reasons for the policies you have been helping me with and mostly from just lurking for the past few days on this specific talk page. Thanks, --Crohnie 13:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I responded under your comments on the Stephan Barrett talk page under the title number of books. I would appreciate it if you would take a peek and respond back to me to let me know if I am off on what I am saying. I am finding this whole this ridiculous. Also, shouldn't the conflict between Shot and I'clast be remove and put on talk pages? I also thought that original research, like the list of books are to be removed immediately. Am I incorrect? I though this kind of thing wasn't allowed. I have a new sig that I got as a gift from an editor, what do you think? ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 14:37, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Nice signature! --Ronz 15:49, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the whole thing is ridiculous. Not much can be done about it when editors refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and fail to work cooperatively to settle problems. --Ronz 16:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I also responded to you on the Barrett talk page but I want to be clear. I wasn't trying anything except trying to research to see if I could find secondary sources about the books that Barrett authored or co-authored. I guess I failed miserably on the links I provided. I didn't know that Barrett was the owner on the MLM link I posted. I was just trying to do the research, sorry. ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 00:02, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. It was an easy mistake to make and no harm is done. I've done some searches and found nothing. Unless there are other editors pushing for changes, I think what we have in the article is acceptable. --Ronz 00:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Refs vs Further Reading

Hi Ronz,

Thanks for your comment - I should have added the book into a 'further reading' section rather than into the references section. Also I read the spam etc. pages you referred to, and I will remove external links.

Best, Bookuser 21:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply. Those sound like good solutions. --Ronz 22:49, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Your warnings

I would appreciate it if you would quit spamming my talk page with countless warnings. None of the abuses you attribute to me occured. You first accused me of breaking the 3 RR. I had made an average of one edit per day in the article you warned me of being in danger of violating the 3RR in, which doesn't come even close to breaking any rule. Besides, most of my edits in that article weren't reverts but addition of sources. You have also accused me of vandalism for refusing to participate in the discussion before editting. Not only is that not vandalism, but I have made every effort to explain my point of view on the talk page, and have only editted AFTER receiving consensus from the majority of other people on the talk page, for example Fut.Perf, User:Miskin, User:Ploutarchos all agreed. Edrigu 00:30, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry you disagree. Looks like we'll have to find another way to settle this dispute. --Ronz 00:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Would you please check out this article for me?

I think it's spam but I am not sure at the Crohn's article ] and the link in question is which is located as the last on the list of organizations. Thanks, ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 13:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Yep, looks like part of a spam campaign. --Ronz 15:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I thought so but if was deleted and reverted once already. I am going to go delete it now. ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 15:11, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I got it. --Ronz 15:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes I noticed and was just about to tell you I saw what you did and to ignore my above message. Thanks.----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 15:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Setup qualifiers for Reiki?

Perhaps just one introductory qualifier at the beginning of each section? I agree the prose is rather clunky with every sentence padded like that... --Fire Star 火星 02:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

That might be a good solution. I was more concerned that you hadn't looked at the current state of the article. It's always so hard to deal with NPOV issues with so few good sources. --Ronz 03:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I was responding to an anon who was seemingly trying to make the subject more, erm, palatable. So few good sources is a good way to put it. The article is bloated. --Fire Star 火星 04:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Edrigu

How much more is this guy ~(Edrigu)tolerated to vandalize the Illyrian article???????Trojani 18:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I think you both need to stop editing the article and instead discuss your differences further on the Talk page. --Ronz 18:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

This is an issue which ther is nothing to talk about, he is a serb and I am Albanian, he is manipulating my history and i am defendin it. He knows that if he continues in this fashion you people will make a comprommise, that is his objektive. Take action.Trojani 05:53, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

But Misplaced Pages is not the place to bring outside battles WP:BATTLE. Back your opinions with policy and sources. He's not backing his opinions well, so it would give you a huge advantage. --Ronz 16:20, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

My talk page

Please check my response to both you and Levine there. I am gathering information and if given the time I will have my opinions on the matter of Stephen Barrett hopefully within the next couple of days. Also, it is my talk page and I found no problem with what you struck out, to me it was not necessary. Anyways, I am reading and talking to others to get a grasp of Point, Not and Weight. I think I understand them but I want to be sure. Any suggestion you have in explaining these are most welcomed. I am going to Levine's talk page too with this same kind of note. I hope you are having a good day. Let's all try to keep good faith and try to work things out. I asked our mediator via email if he could ask for another mediator to take over this case. I haven't heard back from him though. ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 20:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Formal dispute resolution request for AGK

Hi Anthony. In response to your comments (, , ), I've made three attempts at getting you to elaborate and explain yourself,

Copy of my email to AGK below, dated Wed, 23 May 2007:

"To be frank, no he doesn't; the only experiences I've had with Ronz is
claims of Bad Faith that wither on the vine when substantial evidence
to prove his claims are requested"
Asking yet again, please give me an example. I find your accusations against me extremely disturbing given that you've never commented on such things before, nor involved yourself in any way.
(Apologies if you get another email similar to this. I'm again having trouble emailing you.)

You've threatened me with taking your viewpoints to AFI, but never followed through.

I'm asking you to follow through now, in whatever manner you see appropriate. Minimally, explain yourself. Perhaps you were just frustrated and wrote things you shouldn't. Perhaps you think you notified me of such events earlier and I somehow missed them.

I find your comments entirely inappropriate for a case that you were mediating. Further, I find it ironic that you've not backed your claims, which is the same criticism you've made of me.

"you never do back them Ronz" Obviously, you made this claim out of rage, since you quickly change your mind:

"the only experiences I've had with Ronz is claims of Bad Faith that wither on the vine when substantial evidence to prove his claims are requested" Certainly, you've never made any such requests, so the rest is just doubletalk as far as I'm concerned. --Ronz 16:56, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

No response? That's fine. I'll consider the whole incident the result of your rage and frustration. This is the end of it. --Ronz 17:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

My silence is my security; please don't misinterpret my lack of comment to have an underlying motive - it really runs no deeper than ignoring you ~ Anthøny 20:00, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. It's still just doubletalk. You don't want to back your attacks on me. Fine. Then don't critisize others of doing the same. You've given fuel to a fire, and I'm one of the few that is willing to work to put it out. -- Ronz 20:09, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

I regret having to leave so much time between these replies - I've been busy off-Wiki. I heed your words, Ronz, but frankly I don't see any validity in them. "Put the fire out" - perhaps you should address your own issues regarding civility and ability to work with others, before criticizing others.

Please don't bother to contact me again, whilst your attitude is like this; I have no desire to communicate with you (in addition, I'll be away for 3 weeks on holiday).

Regards,
Anthøny 20:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you should find something better to do with your time then, if you're so unwilling to follow WP:DR and WP:CIVIL. The fire got hot and nasty, and you've given an editor support to harass others. I'll continue to contact you whenever I want. I'm trying to solve problems here, find others to assist me, and support Misplaced Pages. You've gotten in my way of doing all those things, repeatedly, and assisted others doing far, far worse than you.

Perhaps you should take your own warnings to heart. Perhaps you should learn to WP:CHILLOUT. --Ronz 20:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Rereading all this, your comments, intentionally or not, are coming across more as harassment than anything resembling attempts at dispute resolution. You're actually hindering my attempts to deal better with others, and are guilty of the very criticisms you make of me. I think the best I can do is what I mentioned at the start, assume that "Perhaps you were just frustrated and wrote things you shouldn't." --Ronz 19:16, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Biomedical Sciences Research Center "Alexander Fleming"

Thank you a lot for tour message. Why a link to a governmental, non-profit institution with a history closely linked to the Greek Foundation for Basic Biological Research "Alexander Fleming" can be considered spam? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.251.21.1 (talk • contribs) 06:37, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. Mostly, because you added it and you have a history of adding a large number of related links that violate WP:EL and/or WP:SPAM. In the specific case you're referring to, even if someone else had added the link, it does not meet WP:EL because it's not closely enough related to the article topic. --Ronz 16:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Ronz, Regarding your previous comment to IP 195.251.21.1 which is an IP from the Biomedical Sciences Research Center "Alexander Fleming", I believe that a research institution which is takes its name from the Alexander Fleming should be mentioned at Fleming’s biography listing in wikipedi as an external link at least, thanks Afantitis

MUGEN Network of Excellence

Dear Ronz. I would like to provide more information regarding MUGEN NoE:

MUGEN Network of Excellence The MUGEN network of Excellence aims to structure and shape a world-class framework of European scientific and technological excellence in the field of “murine models for immunological disease”, to advance understanding of the genetic basis of disease and to enhance innovation and translatability of research efforts. MUGEN’s specific mission is to bring together different expertise from academic and industrial laboratories in order to study human immunological disease by integrating the participant institutions’ strengths in immunological knowledge with new approaches in functional genomics. By removing barriers to progress and promoting the synergistic interaction of scientists from various disciplines integrated, MUGEN expects to bring Europe a competitive advantage in the development of new diagnostic and therapeutic tools.

Through its Joint Programme of Activities, MUGEN aims to: 1. Systematically study animal models for immune diseases and processes through the application of functional genomic platforms (transgenesis, targeted and random mutagenesis, expression profiling and bioinformatics). 2. Integrate the outstanding research experience and capacities of each network participant to allow the efficient application of post-genomic approaches to generate new knowledge in immunological diseases and processes. Such knowledge is expected to lead to novel diagnostic and therapeutic tools. 3. Ensure spreading of excellence, optimal use and dissemination of the knowledge generated through the network beyond the boundaries of MUGEN, by integrating competencies to train researchers, to encourage knowledge transfer, to address innovation related aspects of research and to raise the public awareness of scientific research issues. To achieve this goal, MUGEN is bringing together expertise from 14 leading research institutes, 5 major universities and 5 biotechnology companies from seven E.U. member states as well as Switzerland and the US. MUGEN will be co-funded by the EU with 11 M€ over a five year period (2005-2009). MUGEN participants will share information and technology platforms and will develop a coordinated agenda of scientific events in order to communicate their scientific achievements to a wider scientific audience as well as to the general public

Please study the description carefully and ask for evaluation from a wikipedia user with strong academic background especially in biology. Thank you in advance. Afantitis

No offense, but this is irrelevant. Please carefully review WP:SPAM and WP:COI if you haven't already. --Ronz 17:35, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Sig

— Ronz (chat)

Here is a custom made signature. Click on preferences and add this to your signature box and click, check. Next, click on save. Its easy. I hope you like it! :) - Mr.Gurü (/_contribs) 19:56, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

--Ronz Here is a simpler version to try. Regards, :) - Mr.Gurü (/_contribs) 20:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I added some spacing. There's some chromostereopsis with it that I might want to tone down. -- Ronz 20:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

What I like about this sig is that it is simple and yet significant. I tried different shades of green. It was missing something. The background color made all the difference. Unforgettable! :) - Mr.Gurü (/_contribs) 22:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Self-Service Software edits

Ronz thanks for the email - my intention was not self-promote. I have a full description of who I am unlike the following entry for Knowledge management software whereby you can see that the originator of this topic registers as a no name and is able to self-promote a company (can you guess where the IP leads to - same state as TheBrain.. hmmmm). Nevertheless, I will abide however I cannot prevent other KM/self-service related professionals and customers in this industry from adding vendors to this arena or setting up a new link to a topic called List of Self-Service software vendors (like you can find in Content management system) Still thanks for the input User:Topiarydan 06:43, 28 May 2007

Would you mind if I ask a couple of questions?

I have been doing a lot of reading these days and understanding things a little better about the policies here but there are so many to read and I can't seem to find a definite answer to this one question I have. I have been doing a lot of vandal reverts and spam if I see them. Now my question is does WP:3R apply to vandalism? I mean there are a couple of articles that have been targets big time and are being reverted and warnings have been put up and even blocks as accused socks. So if it a vandal using multiple IP's or anon accounts putting in the same nonsense that others too are reverting, does the 3R rule apply to the article?

Also, when does nonsense finally stop being discussed so that the articles can move forward again? Can an article be edited about other things that don't have anything to do with a dispute be added without commentary on the talk page? I am finding a lot of disputes going on where I go and actually it seems like there is no end in sight. Right now I am trying to stay out of disputes because it was becoming to stressing and to be honest, too confusing to me with what is being said. I am watching though and through this watching and reading too, I am learning to understand how to be a better Wikipedian I think. I just don't have any emotional ties to any of the articles I go to except of course the Crohn's article and I haven't really gone there yet do to the obvious feelings I have about this. I have been invited to come and help with the article as long as I can accept others changes if they disagree with me which I don't have a problem with. So I might spend some time this week since I have nothing real important next week.

Thanks for your advice again, I hope you don't mind. ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 15:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

There are some exceptions to the 3RR that are worth referring to when you're in doubt, especially for certain types of vandalism: Wp:3rr#Exceptions. In general, I try not to make more than 2 reverts a day, and I know that many experienced editors have a personal rule of only one per day. Instead, I encourage the editors involved to discuss the problems on the article talk page, commenting on their personal talk pages if necessary.

I also tend to give 3RR warnings fairly liberally - if someone has made a couple of reverts over a couple of days without contributing to the talk page, especially if the edit summaries aren't descriptive or civil, I'll give them a warning. I think it's better to use these warnings for edit warring than for three reverts in a day.

If editors will not discuss the problems, or if the discussions are uncivil and disruptive to resolving the dispute, it's a good idea to remind editors of WP:DR and WP:TALK, especially if there are new or inexperienced editors. If things still are out of hand, I start a discussion on the article talk page where I suggest page protection WP:PROT. If the page protection discussion goes poorly, then I propose page protection on WP:RFPP, using the discussion as evidence.

"Can an article be edited about other things that don't have anything to do with a dispute be added without commentary on the talk page?" Definitely. It's a good idea to do so if there's a need to demonstrate proper use of edit summaries, or to find other areas were the editors can work together and agree on changes.

"Right now I am trying to stay out of disputes because it was becoming to stressing and to be honest, too confusing to me with what is being said." That's a very good idea. There's lots of editing to do elsewhere, so why get stressed trying to work with editors that you won't enjoy working with?

Does this explain much? -- Ronz 16:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I have copied your response to my talk page for easier access to look into what you have shown me. I'll let you know but you have been great showing me where to go to find information in policies. Thanks very much,----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 17:43, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to get back to you about this, yes you did help me with my questions, thank you. I am going to put the links on my user page so that I can refer back to them when needed. I have troubles remember things, which if you take notice of my contributions you will see I delete a post I made here about something and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. So I deleted and went to my sandbox to figure it all out in my head, what can I say 'major brain fart' couldn't remember how to do external links. Needless to say this kind of stuff, forgetting, is very frustrating but I am still trying to chug away, but now I am putting things up on my pages to help refresh forgotten things. I don't know how you put up with me but you are great and I really appreciate it. I'd give you one of those barnstars that I see, but I have yet to figure out how to make one. So all I can do is say thank you from the bottom of my heart! Thank you! ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 13:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

sixsigmafirst

Is there a way to stop that spammer from coming back? --SueHay 02:28, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

You can make a WP:AIAV report. -- Ronz 02:31, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't work if they've stopped for now. It makes an awful lot of revert work, doesn't it? --SueHay 02:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Some admins will look at recent history even if they've stopped. There's probably no need though. I'm putting together a spam report, which will look at other editors's spamming of the same link. -- Ronz 02:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Spam report: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#sixsigmafirst.com. There are almost definitely more editors involved, but I don't know if their contributions are spam or not. -- Ronz 02:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I didn't know how the spam patrol worked before now. It's interesting that sixsigma.com has just enough info related to some Wiki topics that some honest editors COULD cite it, though I wouldn't call it a good source. How do you find out which is spam? --SueHay 03:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

It's a judgement call. When an editor adds nothing but a specific link 192.158.61.142 did, it's an easy call to make. One reason for making the reports is for others to help confirm who are the spammers. -- Ronz 03:23, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Ronz, for explaining. And thanks for keeping Wiki clean! :) --SueHay 03:36, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! You too! -- Ronz 03:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Illyrians

Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind. It’s just hard to resist to vandalisms. Helladios 05:15, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. It's pretty likely they're sock puppets too. Very frustrating. -- Ronz 05:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Dr. CAB Clemetson, MD

He (Fyslee) is constantly watches over pages on Misplaced Pages dealing with vitamin C and any form of unconventional medicine. In March 2007 an internal Wiki link was placed on Dr. Clemetson's page entitled List of articles related to quackery listing Dr. Clemeton as a quack; this page and related pages have since been removed. In addition to "Fyslee", "Shot info" seems to travel in the same circles as "Fyslee." The Biography of Dr. Clemetson is no different than the Biography of Albert Einstein and has been praised for the format and content by Dr. Clemetson's children. I just see this as continued harassment by "Fyslee" and his co-horts concerning vitamin C and Shaken Baby. Thank you for your intervention and assistance. The Stroll 20:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

See WP:CIVIL, WP:AFG, WP:OWN. -- Ronz 20:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

———————— I did not revert the Wiki tag! I looked at the page and noticed someone had removed the tag and added some internal links. I just added a few additional internal links, since I wrote the biography. What is wrong with the page? As you can see Fyslee keeps putting the tag back that I noticed when I checked the page today. The Stroll 20:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I assumed that last one was you. Not that it matters. Use the talk page before making a change that has been repeatedly reverted. Hopefully, Fyslee will do the same. -- Ronz 20:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Pyramids!

Dear Ronz

How can I allow Misplaced Pages readers to be introduced to my new pyramids construction theory? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garzedin (talk • contribs) 07:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:COI answers your question better than I could. -- Ronz 15:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I put it on the discussion for someone else to get their feet wet. There are waves of issues about this. :) - Mr.Gurü (/_contribs) 02:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Can i send a WP:3RR warning to User talk:217.24.240.72 for his reverts in Illyria, Albania and History of Albania or do you have to do so as you did to me? Sorry if the question sounds silly, I'm new here amd still learning... Helladios 06:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

3RR

Hi. Can I send a WP:3RR warning to User talk:217.24.240.72 for his reverts in Illyria, Albania and History of Albania or do you have to do so as you did to me? Sorry if the question sounds silly, I'm new here amd still learning... Helladios 06:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you can do it yourself if you think appropriate. Misplaced Pages:Template_messages/User_talk_namespace contains various warnings for editors to place on their talk page, with instructions on how and when to use them. Template:Uw-3rr is the warning. -- Ronz 14:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ergonomics

I have viewed the diff and the external links I removed were links to individual societies and companies and they are in violation of WP:EL as they promote a website. Thanks --The Sunshine Man 17:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

They why leave some links to individual societies? Why didn't you remove them all? -- Ronz 17:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Spamstar of Glory

		The Spamstar of Glory
		To Ronz for diligence in the tireless battle against Linkspam on Misplaced Pages. --Hu12 00:46, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks! -- Ronz 00:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Technopark, Kerala article

The external link for the start-up, called "Torque", has been included in the TIBIC section so that readers can see for themselves the type of high-end, rapidly growing firms that Technopark incubates. I feel that it helps readers understand the contribution of Technopark to the digital economy. Furthermore, the link does not point to a forum, personal page or traffic-driven website which would gain from traffic originating on the Wiki page. I am not in any affiliated to the said organisation and hence have no interest in promoting them. It would be possible to move the weblink to the External Links section, but I would like it retained in the article to create contextual reference. Thanks. - Ajaypp 09:18, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like you want to promote it. The solution is to provide a secondary source instead. -- Ronz 16:04, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Timeshifter's behavior

I'm unable to interact with you on Misplaced Pages. I've tried to be extremely civil with you in pointing out your repeated behavioral problems. Short of an RFC/U, can you suggest any other intervention? -- Ronz 16:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I have moved this from my user page to yours in order to keep the thread on one page. I also used your section heading. I have your page bookmarked, so I will try to keep an eye on your user talk page. But if you are going to discuss articles, then I will respond on the article talk page. I will leave a note here directing you to my reply on the article talk page. I dislike duplication, and I prefer that others on the article talk page also be able to participate. I am ignoring your BS about "repeated behavioral problems." --Timeshifter 17:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Discussion over then. I gave it a try at least. I'll seek help from other parties. -- Ronz 18:04, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

(Harassment removed) -- Ronz 18:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Dubious Association

Hi Ronz, You seem to be late to the party. This topic has been discussed in the talk pages many times before going back quite some time. I have asked repeatedly for proof of what the beliefs of NACM's members were as claimed by those like fyslee who seem hell bent on it's inclusion. All I ever got back was blank stares. It was removed long ago and just recently put in, so the edit war is on the part of those who are submitting original research. The burden is on them to back up their statement.

IMO, the NACM is no kind of real organization at all. They hold no elections, collect no dues, conducts no seminars, hsno meetings and keeps their membership a secret. The big red flag is that three of the four links at the end are to that of Stephen Barrett, notorius for his extremist anti-chiropractic views. You may recall that there is controversy surrounding him as he failed his boards and thus lacked certification in his own field of psychiatry, yet acted as an 'expert' in courts and was paid for his testimony. It was only after he was put on the stand that he testified under oath that he failed his boards. I believe you were involved in that discussion.

So lacking anything concrete from those forcing it's inclusion, it remains OR and should be left out of the article.

Thanks Steth 03:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Place it in article talk rather than edit warring. -- Ronz 03:37, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Have you told the others to do the same? Steth 03:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

So you know

I remove vandlism to your user page written by someone called the stroll. You can find it in the history. I hope I did right removing this. ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 10:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I think it was a misplaced comment. -- Ronz 15:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Dr. CAB Clemetson, MD, CAB Clemetson, MD C. Alan B. Clemetson

Ilena on Barretts's talk page in January 2007 identified "Fyslee" as the web master for Barrett and the Quackbusters. He is constantly watches over pages on Misplaced Pages dealing with vitamin C and any form of unconvential medicine. In March 2007 an internal Wiki link was placed on Dr. Clemetson's page entitled List of articles related to quackery listing Dr. Clemeton as a quack; this page and related pages have since been removed. In addition to "Fyslee", "Shot info" seems to travel in the same circles as "Fyslee." The Biography of Dr. Clemetson is no different than the Biography of Albert Einstein and has been praised for the format and content by Dr. Clemetson's children. I just see this as continued harassmentby "Fyslee" and his co-horts concerning vitamin C and Shaken Baby. Thank you for your intervention and assistance. The Stroll 20:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

And Ilena mis-identified me as being Barrett himself. She has less than zero credibility in my book.

I'll take a look at the article. -- Ronz 15:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm assuming that the ip is you. -- Ronz 15:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Please except the Barnstar

en:Image:Raok_barnstar.png I think you deserve this for your random act of kindness to me. ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 17:30, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! This will be hard to live up to, but I'll do my best. -- Ronz 20:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No it won't, you gone way beyond and have been very kind to me and have taught me more than I could learn on my own. Keep up the excellent work. ----CrohnieGal/_Contribs 22:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry i will not do this again — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.33.12 (talk • contribs) 03:59, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Then please stop with the blog links as well. -- Ronz 15:20, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Illyrians again

Thanks. Maybe my expressions were too free, but it's not easy to stay cool when "some Mickey Mouse followers are claiming that Mickey Mouse is a real person when it's obvious that it is just a cartoon" and 2/3 of talk page is only about it. I'll come out with sources from now on, even a highly controversial topic is in question. It wouldn't be easyZenanarh 18:17, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. It's an extremely controversial topic, so best to get everyone to focus on sources. -- Ronz 22:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Drum Major Institute Page

Ronz, Please advise as to how to improve this page. You've tagged it multiple times, and it has been revised each time. We are not sure how to proceed further without having you tag the page again. We are aware of the conflict of interest policy, and have tried our best to revise the page in the most objective manner possible, but feel the page needs to exist and, obviously, the best way to do that is have someone on staff create it. We feel the page is presenting the Institute's beliefs, but not promoting their stance. Thank you...

Drum Major Institute 15:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)The Drum Major Institute

Thanks for the comment. I understand your concerns. The best approach is to find appropriate sources for the article and suggest they be used on the articles' talk pages. -- Ronz 15:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

edit war

Hi, you recently left a message on Dj Bungis talk page following a statement I had made about Education in Bosnia and Herzegovina (and the corresponding section in the Bosnia and Herzegovina article). I'm not sure if you were referring to me or to him. Which was it? Do you have any suggestion for how to proceed? CheersOsli73 18:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

It was for DJ Bungi, so I've clarified that. He's been repeating the same edits, unsorced and highly pov, over and over without any participation in the talk. -- Ronz 18:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Cydonia

Hi Ronz. Thanks for sorting out Cydonia Mensae for me. I'd hit the three revert limit so thought I'd better stop in case the anon tried to Wiki-lawyer me. I think the anon is using (at least) two IP addresses (home, work?) - the changes introduced last night and this morning were the same, and (admittedly very weak) IP-tracing points to a London location. I suspect we won't have seen the last of him/her, so if you've the time you might like to pop back tomorrow too. I certainly will be! Cheers, --Plumbago 16:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I just stumbled upon Cydonia Mensae while trying to figure out how to treat 193.203.82.194's edits to pyramid. Glad I could help. -- Ronz 17:03, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

1. Article states that "after detailed analysis NASA stated that Face on Mars is natural formation".

The reason I have removed part of this sentence (about "detailed analysis" is because I believe that Misplaced Pages is (and should be) stating documented facts. NASA has never conducted any scientific research on the feature in Cydonia region. In fact, it has always dismissed even the slightest possibility of it being artificial. It stated without ANY analysis during press conference after the Face was discovered in 70's that it was an "optical illusion". It also added that "on the next photo taken just hours after the first one was taken, the facial resemblance of this feature dissapeared because of different light conditions". In fact, that second photo NEVER EXISTED and NASA simply lied. All I want to achieve here is that NASA has never done anything to prove/disprove the artificiality theory, apart from stating that "it looks natural" (the Face). On the other side, many scientists (including Carlotto) produced numerous scientific papers on this subject treating it in a scientific way.

2. The Badlands Guardian Geological Feature.

It is stated that it is a "similiar feature". Since when we know that the Face is natural / artificial ? Wiki is about facts, so I believe this comparison is not appropriate at all. Similarly, if I was to include sentence: "A similar feature on Earth is the Sphinx, which resembles a human head wearing a headress" - surely it would have caused anger. Because it is not similiar, nothing is similiar to the Face as we know nothing about its origin.

3. "Today, it (The Face)is generally understood to be an optical illusion.

Generally understood by whom? NASA, of course and millinons of other people. Equally it is generally understood that the Face is artificial - by many credible scientists and millions of other people as well. By adding "generally understood by mainstream science" I am simply stating the fact. Also by adding sentence about other scientists believing it is artificial - I simply make it more ballanced. Since when NASA is Earths "oracle" on Mars? Whatever NASA says goes (as I can clearly see in this article about the Face. ). This is bias behaviour and calling non-NASA-believers "pseudoscientists" shows it all very clearly, that article is one-sided.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.139.98.106 (talk • contribs)

Please read and follow WP:NPOV and WP:3RR. -- Ronz 14:57, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Adding Smithsonian links to Misplaced Pages

Ronz, I'm a staff person at the Smithsonian and after reading an article about how the University of Washington was adding "external links" to Misplaced Pages that link back to authoritative library generated resources (see the article in DLIB: http://www.dlib.org/dlib/may07/lally/05lally.html). I asked my volunteer to start adding appropriate links to wikipedia articles (for instance, the article on crinoids links to our Smithsonian publication on crinoids and the Jules Verne article to a collection of images from 19th Verne publications).

This seemed like an acceptable use (non-commercial, promoting authoritative scholarly resources, etc.) but perhaps we went astray somewhere?

We have stopped adding external links at this point, but any clarification on why we were perceived as spamming would be helpful.

Thanks for your assistance. You can contact me directly (kalfatovicm@si.edu) if you wish.

Martin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.111.254.11 (talk • contribs)

See WP:COI, WP:SPAM, and WP:EL. It's probably best to advise your volunteers to only propose the links be added, but discussing them on the articles' talk pages. --Ronz 20:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Martin. I just noticed this and have a comment for you. Please get an account. You will be taken more seriously here and have more rights and abilities if you edit using a registered account. Otherwise good luck. -- Fyslee/talk 20:31, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Timeshifter's 3RR Warning

I have not come close to 3RR. I would move your comment from my user talk page to here, and try to have a dialog, but you would probably just delete it again, and call your own comments (and my reply) to be harassment. --Timeshifter 21:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Looks like I made a mistake, which I will try to fix here. Originally: --Ronz 21:25, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

--Ronz 21:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I will have our discussion here. To keep it in one place. I will watchlist your user talk page for awhile. 3RR applies in a 24 hour period. Not over a week. See WP:3RR. --Timeshifter 21:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

"users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring" --Ronz 21:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for not contesting your reversions though. --Ronz 21:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, they are your reversions back to a non-consensus version. We agreed to one URL per entry. That is the beauty of footnote links. No matter how many internal footnote links one uses, there remains only a SINGLE footnote URL per entry. --Timeshifter 21:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but no one agrees with you. Further, you're unable to describe why the links are there as they are, or otherwise address my questions about the links. Repeatedly insulting others while you repeat the same irrelevant arguments over and over is not addressing any of the concerns of any of the other editors either. --Ronz 21:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Meanwhile, you're trying to change the topic. You're in violation of 3RR. Please stop reverting the article to the non-consensus version that you prefer but are unable to support with civil and rational comments. --Ronz 21:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. --Timeshifter 22:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

No. You'll have to respect wiki policy or be blocked. --Ronz 22:39, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

21:38, 19 June 2007 --Ronz 23:35, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Web conferencing

Hey, fast catch! I'm currently tracking and undoing that spammer live and you still managed to undo him before I did! :-) Good job! Coren 23:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

LOL - That's a heavily spammed article. Looks like the editor has been blocked because of the name/coi issue. --Ronz 23:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

steven_milloy

just for the record, mastcell and others have been straightforward in using multiple reverts to suppress discussion in the past. I don't mind engaging in discussion, but if I can't discuss, it's a kind of pointless exercise. I hope that there will be equal treatment for all concerned here. Peroxisome 01:35, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Your argument would be much stronger if you had discussed the issues on the article talk page yourself, rather than participating in an edit war. When in doubt, stick to discussions of policies, guidelines, and sources. --Ronz 01:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Unusual university spam discussion

Hi Ronz - I see here that you plan to raise the issue of links to university archives at something called "COIN." I'm not familiar with that, can you tell me what it is and where to find it? I'd like to be able to follow this discussion. Please respond to my talk page. Thanks! --Bookgrrl /lookee here 19:35, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Carl_Hewitt

Hi, I don't remember how this got on my watchlist but I think this is way past the policies of WP:BLP, WP:COI and even more. Would you mind taking a peek at this talk page? You know how to handle things like this better than I do and you have the ability to make a proper judgement. It just looks real bad and almost like bullying that Professor Hewitt is doing to stop others inputs. You can start at the header "Material that Allan McInnes removed from the article on Prof. Hewitt" Thanks, --CrohnieGal 20:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Let's see what happens in response to this: WP:AE#User:Prof._Hewitt --Ronz 16:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I should have let you know that I decided to go to Arthur Rubin about this. With him being an administrator I thought he would be able to tend to it quickly. I hope you are well. --CrohnieGal 19:05, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

481

You have to admit, that is an impressive number. And all that just over 5 words. Oh well, remember, you need consensus to say "no consensus" and if you don't then you have a consensus :-) Shot info 01:53, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

RfM Stephen Barrett

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Stephen Barrett, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Misplaced Pages:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible. -- Levine2112 23:16, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Recent editing at Cydonia Mensae

~~You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Cydonia Mensae.~~ Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content which gains a consensus among editors. I recognize that this was several days ago, but this dispute still seems to be unresolved. Please discuss the issue on the talk page rather than making any further reversions to the article. Thanks.--Chaser - T 21:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Please stop with the inappropriate warnings. Thanks. --Ronz 21:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me? I warned five editors as a result of a 3RR report you filed. Everyone is getting treated equally here.--Chaser - T 21:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Please stop with the inappropriate warnings. Treating everyone equally when they've done nothing wrong is inappropriate. Stop. --Ronz 21:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, I agree that the templatized warning wasn't the best way to resolve this when you've been making better efforts than the IP to contribute on the talk page. I apologize that I tried to handle this situation quickly and hurt the possibility of handling it well. I shouldn't have done that. That said, there are no guiltless parties here. I will give my attention to steering the IPs towards the talk page. Can you agree to not call their edits vandalism in the meantime and try to follow 1RR to prevent escalation?--Chaser - T 21:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I regret calling it vandalism. And my apologies for coming across pretty stongly with you. I think the problem is under control. Everyone other than the ip's has been discussing the issue in talk. Like you, I just noticed that there was edit-warring and tried to help out. --Ronz 21:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Accepted. Thanks. It appears to me that there were two disagreements. The one between you, DJ Barney, sbandrews and Plumbago on the talk page and the edit-war roughly between accounts and IP addresses.--Chaser - T 22:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Am I correct that the edit-warring between IPs and accounts is still live?--Chaser - T 00:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Between? I was thinking that they were working together. Last I checked there was no activity from any of them. --Ronz 18:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Business Analysts

Ronz - I went ahead and completed the speedy request on the 'list of business analysts'. I couldn't tell if you were serious about possibly populating the list in your comments to the creator. It looked like a simple vehicle for him to slap in a spam link to his resume, and I can't imagine how much fun it would be to maintain such a list. I'm happy to restore it if you were having a change of heart. Kuru 01:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

What I meant to say is that the list should be populated with internal links to articles about individual business analysts. Someone said the same on the editor's talk page. I did some quick searches for such articles, but didn't find any. --Ronz 18:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Stephen Barrett.

For the Mediation Committee, ^demon

This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management. If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

This message delivered: 08:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC).

In case you didn't notice.....

I am going to leave the Barrett talk page for at least awhile. I am so disappointed with the attacks going on and the almost outing of you and AVB and whoever. I asked a question that I thought was reasonable because he/she was supposed to be a neutral editor which obviously isn't the case with giving barnstars and attacking those who do not agree with the additions being pushed. I will work on other articles. I have actually been doing quite well for a slow ranger like I am. I hope to talk to you again soon or see you around. I just got my hubby out of the hospital today too so I am quite stressed out so I don't need to be attacked. --CrohnieGal 20:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I saw. Sorry about that. I was waffling between warning you about Metta Bubble . I'm hoping one or both of them will get banned.

Thanks for all the kind words. You take care and have a nice weekend! --Ronz 20:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Crohnie Gal, don't be fooled by appearances. Some of the most vicious haters of Barrett arrive in sheep's clothing. The edit history would have forewarned you, but one can't check out everyone in that manner. Next time just ask by email. -- Fyslee/talk 20:40, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Would one of you please refractor or delete, if allowed, my comments that I struck out? I don't want to be any part of any of this anymore. Oh and my talk page too or can I? Thanks, --CrohnieGal 12:26, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you but after thinking about it, I am reversing my strike outs. I don't believe I did anything wrong. I made a decision to change my strike outs. If you feel I have said something wrong, please do not hesitate to let me know. I always run away from conflict, even in real life, so this time I want to stand up for what I feel was fair and just questions given the circumstances. I trust the both of you to be honest with me and tell me if I did do anything inappropriately. If you are more comfortable emailing, please don't hesitate. Thanks for everything, --CrohnieGal 13:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Let's take a look at what you wrote:

Question for Metta Bubble, you say here that you are here as an uninvolved editor with this being your second revert. Now, you gave Levine a barnstar. You obviously seem to have been invited here, were you? You made that survey for others to take with you allowing yourself to refractor. I am confused, are you a neutral editor who just happened across this article or what? I would also suggest you read the arhives from past conversation since this whole thing restarted which is archieves 9 & 10 so you understand all of what has been said here over all of this time. I left myself for awhile because it is exhausting already. Thanks your for your time.

First, I think this would have been better discussed on Metta Bubble's talk page. It's about Metta Bubble's behavior, so it could come across as being uncivil in article talk.

Yes, it does appear some meatpuppetry was involved (someone inviting Metta Bubble), but this is a serious accusation. You might not even been aware of this policy, but I'm not surprised that Metta Bubble totally lost it when it looked like you were making such an accusation.

Were you aware of WP:MEAT?

(Personally, I think it was wikistalking, but I let it slide because I was trying to resolve my dispute with Metta Bubble at the time.) --Ronz 15:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes I know about puppets in the terms used here. You are right about what I said though I didn't even think of this when I wrote what I did. I did apologize to Metta Bubble on his talk page. Would you refactor what you see as me calling him a puppet? I am not home and only on my son's system for a moment before I have to get back to work. But I do understand totally what you are saying here. If you would prefer me to make the correction, do you mind telling me what exactly and do a delete it or refractor or strike it out? Is refractoring deleting or something else? Sorry for all the questions, long hard week going and this week isn't looking any better!:) Thank you very much, I appreciate your honesty with me very much, that's why I came to you. I hope you are well and hopefully someday in the future I'll be able to help you;) --CrohnieGal 18:27, 23 June 2007 (UTC) (spell check is back at my house so sorry for any errors)

Minimally, I'd strikeout as follows:

~~You obviously seem to have been invited here, were you?~~ You made that survey for others to take with you allowing yourself to refractor. I am confused~~, are you a neutral editor who just happened across this article or what?~~

--Ronz 03:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Egyptian pyramids

I am trying to make an important contribution with respect to how the Egyptians constructed the pyramids. The commonly accepted theory that they used enormous mud ramps to reach each level in turn is preposterous. It would require a ramp a mile long to reach the top of the largest pyramid. I have covered this in detail in my not-for-profit personal web page http://www.fsteiger.com/Pyramid.html. This NOT spam. Yet someone keeps removing my submittal. Misplaced Pages should be open to new ideas. Sadly, it is not. Frank Steiger

Frank, Misplaced Pages expressly forbids the use of "new ideas" that are often considered original research. Misplaced Pages "reports" (never originates) facts and opinions that have already been (IOW they are not "new") published in verifiable and reliable sources. Please read all three of those links as they have a special meaning here, which is not the same as their general use. -- Fyslee/talk 07:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)