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Barack Obama

previous FAR

notified (used tool as instructed by sandygeorgia): Barack Obama talk page, Maximusveritas, Jersyko (knows and already commented), Bobblehead, SandyGeorgia (knows and already commented), Dereks1x, HailFire, Steve Dufour, MPS, Italiavivi, Manic Hispanic, Jogurney.

The article is of good quality and I think it would pass a good article nomination, but it is not of featured article quality anymore.

Well written, comprehensive, factually accurate, neutral and stable

• The article is not stable and subject to an ongoing edit war. While I AGF and do not accuse the editors of being campaign workers, the edits of some editors (not named to prevent accusations) is trying to hide information, place some information in small print, deleting relevant information, etc. Some editors give up but this doesn't mean there is a concensus.
• Article is prone to vandalism and reverts possibly due to frustration of the edit warring.
• There are other contentious issues that no censensus has been reached. These can be found in the archives of the talk page. Essentially, many editors left wikipedia because a small group of editors kept insisting on doing it their way, even if it wasn't right.

Examples include the controversy (without commenting what the right thing to do about each controversy) about his Muslim education (or explaining that it was a controversy but there's no substance to allegations), police endorsement and opposition, Myspace and internet support, etc.

Images

• Poor image, makes his skin blotchy and unattractive (subtle POV edit warring or not?)

Length and focus

• Exceeds recommended article length but attempts to shorten have only led to edit warring.

Loss of featured article status is no big deal. Prime Minister Blair's article is very good and loss of FA status does diminish Blair's reputation. Feddhicks 18:27, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

• The article has not changed to such a significant degree since its last FAR as to warrant further review. The edit warring noted above is being perpetuated by that editor. Since the only other substantial reason given for delisting that doesn't reference edit warring is "Poor image, makes his skin blotchy and unattractive", this article should obviously not be delisted. · jersyko talk 18:41, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The lack of consensus is more than one editor. I am only concerned about hiding information by putting an important phrase in small print hidden in the footnotes, instead of the main article.

Other editors with other disputes include Group 1: Jersyko, Tvoz, Bobblehead; Group 2: Italiaviva, Jogurney; and the independent group: ManicHispanic, Vintagekits, UTAFA, Nuclearj, Hempbilly, and many others. All total, there are about a dozen disputes where all the editors have not reached an agreement (although some got fed up and left).

There is more than one area of edit warring. I don't represent the other editors and they have their own beef with the article, some of which seem to be very reasonable proposals.

The lack of FA status can be good. It does not say Senator Obama is bad because his article is not an FA. In fact, it encourages cooperation to improve the article rather than false resting on its laurels.

Feddhicks 19:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

• This FAR seems to be largely in response to a dispute over some minor content and whether it is adequately covered by including the content in a footnote rather than in the main body of the article and subsequent accusations of sockpuppetry. As far as the issues raised by the submitter:

• Two reverts of actual content over two days does not make an edit war.
• The article is of a highly visible person whose chosen profession is going to draw attention from vandals and the four edits from the vandalism only account and three subsequent reverts are a function of that. Granted, the page is on fairly permanent semi-protection, so that does cut down on the vandalism quite a bit.
• Because a subject is frequently raised by different people does not mean that consensus has not been reached. I'm not going to go into detail on the specific examples given, except to say on the general level of "controversies" those have all been rather minor in regards to Obama and the amount of weight given to them has to be measured carefully.
• The image is free... What's there to complain about?
• The article's readable text is well within Misplaced Pages's guidelines, the size of the article is due solely to the 168 citations that have been used to support the article. All of which have been necessary because of the level of attention the article has gotten. To say attempts to shorten the article has been met with edit wars is a bit of an overstatement of what's been happening. Shortening the readable text more than what has already occurred would be detrimental to the article.

• Granted, if some of the other reviewers can find things wrong with the article beyond what the initial reviewer has "found", that'd be excellent. --Bobblehead 20:18, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

What does "Group 1," "Group 2," etc mean?

I am confused by Fred's description. Italiavivi 21:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. Feddhicks, please follow instruction number 6 at the top of the WP:FAR page, notify all relevant parties, and leave a record here (see other FARs for an example). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:15, 7 July 2007 (UTC) Done

Pasted from talk page: Comment - I am satisfied with the footnote mention of the Rezko relationship. My understanding from previous discussions (see Bobblehead's list above) was that most editors agreed that the controversy/relationship was notable but to give it more than a sentence or footnote mention would give it undue weight (compared to other more significant topics in this article). Other political candidate articles have used similar techniques (footnote mention of notable but minor controversies) such as Ron Paul. I hope this helps. Best regards. Jogurney 19:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Ron Paul's article doesn't use tricky tactics as this article. That footnote further expands on a sentence in the article. The Paul article says there is controversy and explains the controversy in the footnoot. The Obama article makes no mention of the house controversy and then hides a one sentence in the footnotes that mentions the controversy. The Ron Paul footnote is in normal print. The Obama footnote is in such small print that some people can't even see it. Therefore, Jogurney's logic proves there is a problem.

SteveDufour removed the POV tag because he said "no topic was added to talk page to discuss possible problems" This shows how bad the small print in the footnote is. Steve read the personal life section and then looked at the talk page and didn't see any personal life discussion. However, the footnote is part of the personal life discussion. It is so hidden that a veteral editor, one who has edited Barack Obama more than hundreds and is in the top few editors as far as number of Barack Obama edits, did not even see it. This proves that the small print is a problem. Feddhicks 16:43, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

It's difficult for me to assume good faith on the part of an obvious sock of a banned user. It's obvious to me that this FAR exists solely to draw attention to a single content dispute on a minor point. A FA will not be delisted almost solely because of the size of a bit of text in a footnote. This is an improper use of FAR, an attempt to skirt the required dispute resolution methods, and a violation of WP:POINT. I cannot take this FAR seriously. · jersyko talk 17:11, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

And if pictures are an issue, check out the public domain photos I have found at Google images. Pick one and upload it. User:Zscout370 08:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)