Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Opus33 (talk | contribs) at 23:54, 19 September 2003. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

We've got this article and one at Franz Joseph Haydn about the same person. Obviously we don't need both, and I think the article should be here rather than at Franz Joseph - both are common, but I think without the Franz is commoner generally. Google isn't much use here, because a lot of pages headed "Joseph Haydn" do have his full name in the text. In any case, I think I'm right in saying that Haydn referred to himself as Joseph (not Franz) and that's what he was known as in his lifetime. And Haydn redirects here rather than to Franz Joseph.

What I propose to do is move the old 1911 text at Franz Joseph Haydn to the bottom of this article (adding a disclaimer) and then make a redirect from there to here - is this the right procedure? I'm aware that the history of the 1911 text will get left behind, so I want to be sure. --Camembert

Well, I've moved it now anyway - anyone who disagrees can change it back. --Camembert

I've removed:

Strangely, Haydn looked just like F. Murray Abraham as the jealous, less talented Antonio Salieri in the film Amadeus, while Salieri in reality didn't look like that at all.

It doesn't really have anything to do with Haydn. --Camembert

I'm a bit doubtful about this:

Besides the symphony and string quartet, Haydn also pioneered the development of sonata form, and was innovative in his writing of keyboard sonatas, which are perhaps the first piano sonatas, though some may have been written for harpsichord or fortepiano.

• I am almost certain that he was not the first composer to write piano sonatas - when I was making some notes for the piano article (still not written up), I found out that the earliest works expressly for the piano had been published by some unknown composer (an Italian, I think) in something like the 1730s. I think these pieces were sonatas - they certainly pre-date anything Haydn wrote for the instrument.
• I think Haydn did indeed write pieces specifically for the harpsichord, but saying he wrote things for the fortepiano is a bit misleading: the fortepiano, as far as I know, isn't a distinct instrument, it's just a name that gets given to early pianos.
• I'm also a bit doubtful about the sonata form business. In what way did he "pioneer the development of sonata form", exactly?

As I say, the classical era isn't really my area, so I'm not going to edit any of this without a spot of research to back it up. If anybody can clarify any of it, that'd be great. --Camembert

168.8.72.9 doesn't give reasons for the big cut. But trying to put myself in his/her shoes, I can guess that the part of the objection was that a fair amount of my earlier material was subjective; Misplaced Pages should largely confine itself to giving "just the facts". So, I've cut the most subjective bits, and left in material that reflects current scholarship, notably Rosen's, on Haydn.

Opus33 Sept. 19, 2003