User talk:Anythingyouwant - Misplaced Pages

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Freddie

Thanks for the invite, but I believe you misunderstood what I had said. The wrong version refers to an essay on meta, found at m:The Wrong Version. When there are sides in a debate, you are bound to protect the "wrong version" from one side's perspective. It's a lose, lose situation. No matter what, when a sysop protects a page during a content dispute, it is the "wrong version". My comment was thus referring to this idea, and I was not expressing my opinion that the version was in fact, wrong. But thanks again for bringing it up, and I might just chime in when I get some time.-Andrew c 04:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Photos

I imagine it has something to do with Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(technical)#Loads_of_images_.28particularly_flag_images.29_not_showing. There is a bug where some images from commons are not showing, and the developers know about it and are working on it. Hopefully, it will be cleared up soon enough. Hope this helps.-Andrew c 17:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Just found out purging the image pages over on commons (WP:PURGE) gets them to show (at least on my computer). Not sure if it's necessary to do this though if another solution is already under works.-Andrew c 17:53, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Pregnancy

Sorry, our revs got crossed. ... Kenosis 18:37, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

That talk page history is awfully long for today - Ferrylodge, do you have a dif or preferably several of Photo modifying and/or deleting posts? That's completely unacceptable. Thanks - leave here, I have your page on watch, or leave on my talk page. KillerChihuahua 18:53, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

He deleted my post here. After I put it back, he changed my section title.Ferrylodge 18:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, renaming the section is acceptable, if not being done in an insulting, disruptive manner - for brevity or clarity or easier navigation. But deleting someone else's posts (except on one's own talk page) is a complete no-no in almost all cases. Your edit was not a blatant personal attack nor was it silly vandalism, which are the usual exceptions. I've left a warning on Photo's talk page. Thanks much for the diff, that history was daunting to look at and I had no idea where to start. KillerChihuahua 19:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Article in the Washington Post

It was interesting to read about you in the Washington Post this morning. It sounds much like the person I now know to be Ferrylodge. However, you might like to ask them to clarify if you're a man or a woman. As in, the statement currently reads, "and another editor who goes only by Ferrylodge, a Republican and a Thompson supporter. (He recently gave the former Tennessee senator a $100 donation.)... She is, though she's not yet sure who she will support." . Keep up the good work. The Evil Spartan 18:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we talk about the "health" effects of abortion on the fetus???

???LCP 20:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikistalking

Ferrylodge, your accusation here is way out of line, and unacceptable. You don't own Mother or any other article, nor do you have the market cornered on interest in the subject. Perhaps you should read the section on Wikistalking that you pointed me to - and then tell me just how I had harassed you or disrupted anything by making one comment on the talk page in support of what I believe to be another editor's correct criticism of a section of the article. And please don't tell me how long that wording has been in the article - that doesn't mean it is right. I think you owe me an apology - but if you think you're right, I suggest you make your accusation in a more formal way, because innuendo is not going to cut it. Tvoz |talk 05:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I am not making accusations. Some users are unaware that it is bad form to follow other users around. If you are following me around (from Fred Thompson to abortion to mother), then I would kindly ask you to please stop. However, if it is merely a bizarre coincidence, then we can leave it at that. If you want to continue this discussion, please do it at the article talk pages. Thanks.Ferrylodge 13:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It's only bad form if one is doing it to harass. It's perfectly OK, for instance, to check a vandal's contribs and go around correcting them. Or similar cases where one suspects that a particular user's edits are suspect and need another eye. And one way one might get that suspicion is by tangling with them on one page. So long as the edits one makes after following them around are valid, it's not wikistalking. -- Zsero 16:05, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Zsero - that is correct. And Ferrylodge, I think you know that I am a very experienced editor with over 7500 edits, and I know Misplaced Pages policy, so don't be disingenuous. I'm continuing this conversation here because it isn't germane to the article talk page. Pointing someone to a policy page and suggesting they read it is certainly implying an accusation. I'll continue to edit whatever pages I please, and having seen what I and several other editors have identified as appearing to be POV-pushing, it's possible that you'll see me editing other pages that you also edit, and commenting on their talk pages, to try to rein it in. There's been no disruption or harassment on my part - disagreeing with someone's POV is not harassment. There's policy on that too - you might look at it. Tvoz |talk 18:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

As might you.Ferrylodge 12:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Again - where exactly have I harassed you or disrupted anything? And where have I accused you of anything? You play rather loose with facts, Ferrylodge, as I've mentioned before. Tvoz |talk 23:04, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I have said several times that I am not accusing you of anything, Tvoz. You, however, have been following me from one article to the next, accusing me of being disingenuous, accusing me of playing loose with facts, accusing me of acting like I own an article, and accusing me of POV-pushing, et cetera. Following other editors around without a good cause is not acceptable, Tvoz — in fact, it's very clearly defined as disruptive behavior and disallowed by WP:HAR. I am far from convinced that you have good cause. In any event, please post no more at this talk page. Thanks.Ferrylodge 19:05, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been blocked from editing for 48 hours in accordance with Misplaced Pages's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule at stillbirth. Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. MastCell 16:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Reverts: , , , . MastCell 16:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Anythingyouwant (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

The last two reverts are very different from the first two. The last two edited the lede to INCLUDE the word "uterus" in the lede. The first two edits edited the lede to EXCLUDE the word "uterus" from the lede. That is what the controversy was all about: whether the lede should include the word "uterus". The lede has included the word "womb" for years.

Decline reason:

Please reread WP:3RR. The reverts do not have to involve the same material each time. Your four edits serve to reintroduce "womb" each time in any case. — Yamla 17:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I would also like to add that KillerChihuahua has been attacking me personally and harassing me all day today. At the abortion article today, she asserted that my words are "bullshit". At the pregnancy article today, she suggested that I am "naive and disingenuous." At the Stillbirth article today, she said that I was trying to insert a "vulgar" word into the article. It astounds me that an admin can get away with such incivility, and I find it very difficult to respond in a constructive way to her personal attacks. More recently, at the Stillbirth article, she said that I am a "spammer". Actually, the "spam" to which she referred was a list of definitions of the word "womb" from reliable sources, and I had not previously listed those definitions (or any of them) anywhere else, prior to listing them in the Stillbirth article.

Instead of responding intelligently and civilly to those definitions, she ignored them, disparaged them as "spamming", continued her edit-war against the word "womb" in all pregnancy-related articles.

I did not violate 3RR here. The third and fourth cited edits were reverting to a lede that included KillerChihuahua's preferred term "uterus". The first and second edits reverted to a version of the article that did not include KillerChihuahua's preferred term "uterus."Ferrylodge 17:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Apologies

My apologies. I thought 3RR meant reverting three times to a previous version, which of course I did not do.

However, I do not offer any apologies to KC. She is an uncivil edit warrior who has repeatedly and personally attacked me today.Ferrylodge 17:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks the other way around to me; like you're attacking her. If you're really the aggrieved party here and not interested in scoring hits against KillerChihuahua you'd be following WP:NPA instead of violating it I think. And I see that you were blocked for 24 hours in May for "Repeated harassment posting on User talk:KillerChihuahua after warning." Clearly you've got a grudge against KillerChihuahua, I suggest steering clear of her and ceasing the personal attacks. If not you're simply making yourself look worse and digging your hole deeper. Odd nature 21:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I have no grudge against KC. I do not like having to address the "harassment " charge over and over again, but since you have brought it up I will briefly address it again. Unlike the present 3RR charge (which I have apologized for above), the harassment charge was bogus, in my view. Killerchihuahua never asked me to leave her talk page. Bishonen asked me to leave KC's talk page, but Killerchihuahua did not. I did leave after denying the harassment charge, and I was blocked for denying the charge. How many other people at Misplaced Pages are blocked for harassing someone who never asked to be left alone? And then when I brought an RfC against Bishonen, Bishonen rounded up all her friends, who proceeded to make a mockery of the RfC by posting images of food, and the like. It was a disgraceful episode.Ferrylodge 22:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

So it's all KillerChihuahua's, Bishonen's and "all her friends" fault. I see. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Odd nature 23:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't really care if you buy it or not.Ferrylodge 23:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Your repeated incivility towards KillerChihuahua is tempting me to extend your block. A sincere apology would be a VERY good idea. ⇒ SWATJester 22:15, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

You have it backwards, Swatjester. If you would look at the previous section above, you would see that the incivility has been toward me. Calling my words "bullshit", suggesting that I am "naive and disingenuous", falsely accusing me of "spamming", saying that my words are "vulgar" --- this is the kind of incivility that has been directed towards me.

Want more examples? Here KC says that my words are "inane." Here she suggests that my words indicate I am "congenitally dense".

I will not apologize to KC, so block me for as long as you please.Ferrylodge 22:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

OK. A forced apology is not going to solve anything anyway. Ferrylodge and KillerChihuahua obviously don't get along. There's been incivility on both sides, as is common when 2 editors don't get along. The best approach at this juncture is probably just for everyone to simmer down, sit out the 3RR block, and try disengagement or dispute resolution when you come back. MastCell 22:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with MastCell. Swatjester, when a user is blocked, it's natural that he feels aggrieved, and the kindest and fairest approach is to ignore comments that you find problematic, unless they cross a certain threshold. For example, if someone is blocked for vandalism, or severe BLP problems, and, during his block, he fills his talk page with " has sex with little boys", then I wouldn't hesitate to extend the block to indefinite. But to call someone an uncivil edit warrior is hardly the kind of thing we block people for, even though I completely disagree that KillerChihuahua is anything of the kind. If we did extend blocks for that, then you'd have to start handing out an awful lot of blocks to people who have been in dispute with Ferrylodge. I'm quite sure KC is able to put up with a blocked user writing such things during a block. It's part of being an admin. She's had worse things said about her; I've had worse things said about me; I'm quite sure you've had worse things said about you. Ferrylodge is blocked for 48 hours. He hasn't told people to fuck off or called them assholes. Some people do that with impunity on Misplaced Pages. Why on earth would we extend his block for expressing his frustration inappropriately but not aggressively? It would completely send the wrong message.

And Ferrylodge, KillerChihuahua has already pointed out that "vulgar" has more than one meaning. Nor did she imply that you were "congenitally dense". She said that your behaviour served no purpose, "unless your purpose to convice others you are congenitally dense." That's quite different. ElinorD (talk) 22:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Ferrylodge has shown no contrition. That's the difference between some users who get the point of a short block (or even a warning before a block is implemented) and those that don't. So, I slightly disagree with ElinorD and MastCell. Moreover, and what hasn't been discussed herein, Ferrylodge has a long history around here in a POV-warrior mode of editing. History matters here. OrangeMarlin 23:06, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

He did show contrition for violating 3RR, which is what he was blocked for. He wasn't blocked for incivility or anything else; I'm really hesitant to block established contributors for that sort of thing. Yes, I think it would be nice if he offered an olive branch instead of entrenching his position with regard to KillerChihuahua, but to be clear, the block had nothing to do with the feud between him and KillerChihuahua. As far as his history, I did take into account his prior 3RR block, hence this block was 48 hours rather than 24 (which is what I usually use for first-time 3RR violations). MastCell 23:43, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think I was referring to the community ban request. Oh well, this may be irrelevant. OrangeMarlin 23:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I apologize to Misplaced Pages and to MastCell and to Yamla for violating 3RR due to my misunderstanding of the rule. But I will not apologize to KC. I'll give KC a pass on the word "vulgar" because it is (rarely) used to refer (condescendingly) to the "ordinary people in society." But no pass on the rest of her incivility. And I would urge admins to visit the stillbirth article and look at the way she blithely reverts without engaging in any discussion, rudely dismissing detailed references to reliable sources as "spam." It's highly offensive to me, and I do not understand how an administrator can just run roughshod like that.Ferrylodge 23:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

None of which addresses your standing personal attacks above and chronic harrassment of Killerchihuahua. That's the topic here. There's a limit of how much of this the community needs to suffer. Odd nature 23:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

None of this matters. Someone has taken it to a request for community ban on Ferrylodge. It's about time. OrangeMarlin 23:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Excellent timing! What better moment for KC to pounce than when I am unable to defend myself. Bravo! That lady earns her screen name. See here.Ferrylodge 00:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

A great comment to be used in determining your community ban. Very civil.OrangeMarlin 00:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

That comment has apparently prompted efforts to allow me to respond, and high time too. Ferrylodge 00:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Rudeness prompted nothing. Fairness did. If you cannot understand the difference between the two, then this is going to be very difficult. OrangeMarlin 01:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

If I were you, Orangemarlin, I wouldn't be levelling accusations of rudeness, after rudely complaining right here at this talk page about the "immature rantings" of another editor.Ferrylodge 01:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Good attempt at transference. OrangeMarlin 01:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It will take more than 48 hours for this to be decided, in all probability. If you wish to make a statement, you can do so here on your talk page and I will link to it, if you wish. Or you can request unblocking for the purpose of posting there. KillerChihuahua 00:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I request unblocking for the purpose of posting there.Ferrylodge 00:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Hang on, let me contact the blocking admin. KillerChihuahua 00:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Done. KillerChihuahua 01:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I am still not able to edit at the Community sanction noticeboard.Ferrylodge 01:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I meant "done" as in, I have contacted the blocking admin, sorry for any confusion. KillerChihuahua 01:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

(undent) I'm still not able to edit at the Community sanction noticeboard. FYI, I will be travelling tomorrow until Monday, and therefore will not be able to respond on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.Ferrylodge 01:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for the delay in responding; I was away from the computer. I've unblocked you so you can participate in the WP:CSN discussion. In terms of article editing, I would prefer if you waited a bit, but blocks aren't intended to be punitive, so if you're okay with abiding by WP:3RR you can go ahead and edit as you feel is appropriate. MastCell 03:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.Ferrylodge 03:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I still get an error message when trying to edit: "You are unable to edit Misplaced Pages because someone using the same internet address (an 'IP address') or shared proxy server as you was blocked. Your ability to edit Misplaced Pages has been automatically suspended as a result. Note that you have not been blocked from editing directly."Ferrylodge 03:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't edit from the computers at work, but can at home.Ferrylodge 10:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

That was due to a lingering autoblock on your work IP from the 3RR block. I tried to find and remove the autoblock, but the autoblock-finding tool wasn't showing any. As it turns out, the autoblock finder was malfunctioning. I apologize for that - I tried to undo the autoblock, but was stymied by technical problems which I am only now becoming aware of. MastCell 20:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's kind of moot now, since he's a) been banned and b) away over the weekend. This whole thing is a travesty. -- Zsero 21:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I got back at midnight on Sunday, and was already banned. Anyone can look at the discussion at stillbirth that prompted this ban, and see what happened there.Ferrylodge 19:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Banned

In light of the evidence of your misdeeds and the overwhelming support for banning you at WP:CSN, you have been blocked indefinitely from editing Misplaced Pages. FeloniousMonk 18:24, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

This comment is premature, since the discussion is ongoing. Banno 10:52, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Correction: He is indeed indef blocked. What he may not be is banned; that discussion is indeed ongoing, as I have reverted the archiving which was put in place. However, indef blocked, with or without a community ban, is still indef blocked. KillerChihuahua 11:02, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

But an indefinite block is not a community ban. The tags prejudiced the discussion. Banno 11:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it can be, and often is. The definition of a community ban is that an editor is blocked indefinitely, and no administrator unblocks. That is ban by default, always has been. Discussion by the community at large is optional - BAN states it "may have discussed" which clearly indicates it may not have been discussed anywhere at all. CSN is quite new, comparatively. Until and unless someone unblocks, this is ipso facto a ban. From WP:BAN: "There have been situations where ... he or she has been blocked long term (usually indefinitely)... and no one is willing to unblock them. ...Users blocked under these circumstances are considered to have been "banned by the Misplaced Pages community."" In fact, the majority of community banned users never even saw CSN. Some have a brief appearance on ANI for review, but that is not always the case. Some are indef'd and only appear on ANI when they appeal the block - which more often than not results in support, which turns the indef into a community approved ban. Sometimes they are given a second chance. KillerChihuahua 11:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

For the record, I am of the opinion that a consensus was not achieved in Ferrylodge's case, that the discussion was closed prematurely, and that it was directed in such a way that other options could not be explored. It unsatisfactory that he was blocked only for a few brief periods before this attempt at a permanent block. It may have been possible to set conditions on his continued editing, such as:

Ferrylodge abide by any clear consensus, as suggested by Gatoclass
Ferrylodge agree to avoid editing pages relating to pregnancy and abortion

It is obvious that Freeylodge has annoyed many folk and a considerable change in his approach to Misplaced Pages is needed. Banno 23:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Why are you posting that here? Banno, if you want to discuss the closing with someone, I suggest you talk to Ryulong, who closed the darn thing (twice and most recently), although you might prefer to talk to FeloniousMonk, who only closed it (before Ryulong reclosed it, last closure) because you chastised him for not closing it. KillerChihuahua 23:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Ryulong did not close the CSN discussion, but archived the inappropriate vote section, then re-archived after it had been wrongly un-archived and FM had closed the discussion. I posted this here because I wished to flag my concerns, but not to aggravate the situation by re-opening the CSN discussion or unblocking FL. I'm happy to leave the next step to FL and admins who have not so far been involved. Banno 00:32, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

My view of the series of events does not align precisely with that interpretation, but as I've already gone through my view I won't repeat it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KillerChihuahua (talk • contribs) 09:59, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Odd, it doesn't match my view of the events either. No doubt this could be a case of selective interpretation of the events in order to defend an erroneous posistion based on a questionable conclusion that may been based on a superficial scanning of the actual facts. The other option would reply on the ascription of motive, and I'd rather not go there. Jim62sch 15:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Jim62sch's opinion sounds right to me. ⇒ SWATJester 18:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

KC and Jim are right. A review of the evidence shows that FM was clearly enforcing a ban, not a block, and someone was trying to spin it as the latter. Odd nature 19:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Anyone interested in reading more about this travesty can see here.Ferrylodge 19:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I think you probably have a good chance of being heard by the arbitration committee on this. You'll have to email one of the clerks or arbitrators though, so that you can be unblocked to make a case. Or they may allow you to make a case via email. I missed the whole shebang, but it seems like it was closed a bit quickly. Anyway, if it was me, that's what I would do. - Crockspot 19:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Crockspot, for your comment. Due to time pressure, I was not able to contact any other editors, and was only barely able to put some comments together myself. This ban request was initiated while I was blocked, and removal of that block was delayed. The ban was expedited, and was complete by the time I got back Sunday night.Ferrylodge 19:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

List of banned users

Ferrylodge has been listed at Misplaced Pages:List of banned users, as per the policy. Someone who is more comfortable with this ban might like to provide the rationale. Banno 21:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom

Anythingyouwant (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

This unblock request is for appealing an indefinite ban to the Arbitration Committee. I plan to appeal later this week. The unblock request is limited to this purpose. The ban is for “attempted harassment.” Previous discussion of the ban can be found at my talk page, and at the Community Sanction Noticeboard.

Decline reason:

No need to unblock you. You conduct the appeal through email and you do not need to be unblocked for that purpose. — Yamla 15:37, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I will unblock you for this purpose only, on the condition that you understand that anyone will reblock you if you edit anything other than the ArbCom pages. Do you understand and agree? -- Y not? 15:53, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

To Yamla, he's entitled as anyone to have a public forum for the review of his block, which was more than a little controversial. What possible reason is there to not afford him this opportunity? And if he edits one thing, it's back to indef-land. -- Y not? 15:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. This unblock request is for appealing an indefinite ban to the Arbitration Committee. I plan to appeal later this week. The unblock request is limited to this purpose. The ban is for “attempted harassment.” Previous discussion of the ban can be found at my talk page, and at the Community Sanction Noticeboard.Ferrylodge 15:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

There's no reason to unblock him. Appeal to ARBCOM requires that you email them. If the unblock request is to be discussed, ARBCOM can unblock this account under the conditions outlined. He has the opportunity to have his block reviewed by ARBCOM but this does not require that he be unblocked. It would be inappropriate for him to edit the ARBCOM pages in order to get his block reviewed (at least, at this time). --Yamla 16:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, when it is decided how I should proceed, I will proceed. Please note that, "a banned user may be unblocked for the purpose of filing an appeal. In such cases, editing of unrelated pages is grounds for immediate re-blocking".Ferrylodge 16:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

"they should contact a member of the committee or an Arbitration clerk by email and ask that a request be filed on their behalf. Generally speaking, the banned user will make the request on his or her talk page, which will be copied to Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration by a clerk. In some cases, a banned user may be unblocked for the purpose of filing an appeal." You contact an arbitration clerk by email. If that clerk believes your request has merit, they may unblock you. There's no reason for us to unblock you at this time as you have not contacted an arbitration clerk yet. And if you had, they may unblock you, there'd still be no reason for an administrator who is not an arbitration clerk to lift the block. --Yamla 16:17, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any good rationale for refusing this unblock. If he edits outside the parameters of ARBCOM, he can easily be blocked again. Since there was a great deal of disagreement whether or not there was consensus for the block in the first place, his request should be honored. - Crockspot 23:28, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I think Yamla is correct on the letter of the law, as these things are usually handled via email as he spelled out. However, in this case I don't see any harm in unblocking Ferrylodge for the limited purpose of appealing his ban to ArbCom. The point of requiring banned users to use email is to prevent them from damaging Misplaced Pages further. I don't think Ferrylodge is going to go on a spree if he's unblocked; and if he does misuse the unblock to edit outside of an ArbCom request or attack other users inappropriately, then he can always be reblocked. I'm inclined to agree with User:Y; though the letter of the law certainly specifies email, I don't see the harm in an unblock for the specific purpose of an appeal to ArbCom. MastCell 00:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Y Done. I have unblocked you in accordance with your request and per the above discussion. Please remember that edits to any page other than ArbCom pages and relevant user talk pages will result in an immediate re-blocking. -- Y not? 20:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Summary of my three blocks

I have been blocked three times at Misplaced Pages, prior to being banned. First, I was blocked in December 2006 for 3RR on Abortion. I should not have participated in an edit war, and the editor who I reverted (Severa) was not penalized for her own violation of 3RR. Second, I was blocked in May 2007 by Bishonen, for alleged harassment of KillerChihuahua (KC) at her talk page, although KC had never asked me to leave her talk page; I was blocked immediately after saying, "I am glad to be done posting on this page, but, for the record, I dispute any suggestion of harassment. Please do not delete this comment." Sandstein responded to my unblock request by saying, "While a block was, in my opinion, not appropriate for the final message you left per se, it is acceptable in the present circumstances for the purpose of disengaging you from your dispute with KillerChihuaua." I subsequently brought an RfC against Bishonen regarding her harassment charge, which is the only RfC that I have ever initiated against anyone (although I did once join an RfC launched by someone else). Bishonen notified others about the RfC, and various participants proceeded to abuse the RfC, for example by posting images of food. Neither I, nor the editor who joined me in the RfC, agreed with the outcome, but I dropped the matter rather than going through a time-consuming and disruptive arbitration at ArbCom, and I have not written anything at KillerChihuahua's talk page since then. The third time I was blocked was in September 2007, for violating 3RR at Stillbirth, and I have repeatedly apologized for it, although I continue to believe that the edit by KillerChihuahua that I reverted at the Stillbirth article was inappropriate and that her edit summary was uncivil.

Request for arbitration

I have filed a request at ArbCom. It is here.Ferrylodge 23:17, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I would prefer if you remove my name and diff from your statement. I was not involved in the sanction discussion. - Crockspot 00:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. I merely said that you had expressed concerns about the fairness of these banishment proceedings, which I thought you had. Cheers.Ferrylodge 00:41, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Good luck. - Crockspot 00:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ferrylodge

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ferrylodge. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ferrylodge/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ferrylodge/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Newyorkbrad 16:48, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind...

I hope you do not mind, but I mentioned your email to me on-wiki here. I just couldn't stop myself from trying to nip the faulty assumption in the bud. Mahalo. --Ali'i 20:01, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't mind. Thanks for your help with this whole mess, Ali'i. I'm still waiting for FeloniousMonk (the blocking administrator) to identify the specific alleged trangressions that he views as most serious. I simply cannot address all of the random and vague accusations that have been made, most of which are trivial. KC seems offended about one of the rough drafts of my arbitration request, and offended that I asked her to not post at my talk page, but these things seem very minor, and I want to know what the main offenses are supposed to be. No one will say. They just make vague allegations, with strings of diffs that they don't bother to quote from or describe with any particularity. This is frustrating.Ferrylodge 20:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

ʻAʻole pilikia. I'd be wary of attempting to goad FeloniousMonk (or anyone, for that matter) into commenting. (As someone else pointed out to you, it may seem to some people like badgering) If they would like to comment, I'm sure they will. If they do not, I'm sure they would just like to be left out of it further. And there's no need to complain here, I can read the ongoing proceedings. Mahalo. --Ali'i 21:05, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

To her credit, Severa has tried to be somewhat specific in the evidence she has presented. So, I will try to address her evidence over the weekend. I'm jammed up at work, so can't reply to her right away. And I didn't mean to goad FeloniousMonk --- I just meant to ask him for some details.Ferrylodge 21:25, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I am considering placing a proposal, and would like your permission to use the material in your email to me. Banno 07:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure, that would be fine. Please keep my email address confidential, of course. FYI, I am now suspected of having a sock puppet!Ferrylodge 15:28, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Just due diligence. --Pleasantville 15:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I certainly hope the ArbCom case goes in your favor. I'm sorry you have to go through the ordeal, but I think this is an opportunity to start over and put your past behind you. VoL†ro/\/Force 20:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment, Voltron.Ferrylodge 00:25, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Sexy pronouns

Point of clarification... I assume you are male. Would you mind confirming or correcting my assumption? Or would you rather be ambiguous? I just realized how difficult it is writing "his or her" and "he or she" over and over again. Mahalo, Ferrylodge. --Ali'i 15:20, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Ali'i, thanks again for stepping in to be of assistance here. I don't recall having encountered you prior to these ban proceedings, except that I noticed your edits at Fred Thompson. Anyway, your interest in this matter is much appreciated. As for my gender, maybe the best way to put it is like this: regardless of my gender, please feel free to refer to me generically as "he." Also, I intend to present evidence that I did nothing very wrong at the abortion and reproduction-related articles, aside from the two 3RR blocks for which I have apologized. So, if you think I did something wrong there, please reserve judgment until I present the evidence, okay? And please note that one of my big contributions at Misplaced Pages was bringing the Roe v. Wade article through featured article review. Although I don't intend to make a big stink about it at the arbitration, my personal view is that the entire arbitration is intended primarily to drive me away from the abortion and reproduction-related articles.Ferrylodge 15:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I won't say much here, but I know there was a lot of support for a topical ban on the sanctions board, and my guess is that if arbcom does not ban you from the entire site, you will have some sort of topical ban. But I'll try and present some further evidence as to your constructiveness on these types of articles. Also, if I were may give you a piece of advice... instead of presenting so much evidence as to other people's wrongdoings, I would present evidence on how you have helped the project and how you have cooperated with others. Just my opinion... take it for what it's worth. And "he" it is. Gracias and mahalo. --Ali'i 15:48, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Just found out about ban

Hi, Ferrylodge. I just now found out about the indef block - a month after it happened. Had I known about it at the time I would have tried to make a useful comment and will now do so at the arbitration page(s). There should be some mechanism to altert other editors to such a proceeding so they can comment. The time allotted for discussion should be at least as long as that for deleting an article (i.e. at least five days). An indef block should be preceded by many shorter blocks or other restrictions (e.g. 1RR, mentoring, topic ban). An indef block should be the result of weighing evidence, not counting the opinions of editors who have been involved previously.

One comment for you. I think you made a mistake that I have seen several other editors make - and it more than the prior actions may have led to the CSN ban. You responded (at CSN) mostly by attacking your attackers rather than defending yourself with evidence. At the arbitration I think you are doing a better job of responding with evidence as opposed to attacking the other editors. I suspect that you responded quickly to CSN but responded with more deliberation at arbitration.

It is very natural to respond to an attack by counterattacking, but it often makes the problem worse. Oftimes it adds fuel to the fire. A counterattack might make us feel better but it usually doesn't accomplish anything useful.

I am slowly trying to write an essay on how to handle disputes. Some of the elements are:

Respond with evidence
Defend yourself, rather than attack others
Use logic, rather than emotion
Read your post before you press Save page
Ask yourself: Will this post further my cause? Will it help to persuade others?

The essay needs a lot of work but I've seen some disputes flame out of control and I'd rather not see it again. I'm going to try to help other editors resolve disputes before they go too far. Sbowers3 03:21, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Sbowers3, thanks for your concern about this matter. You have some interesting ideas, and I'll think them over carefully. Regarding notification, it seems like the people on the other side of this arbitration dispute have a very good notification network set up, whereas I did not immediately notify everyone at Misplaced Pages who might possibly assist me. I really haven't got the time or inclination for such stupid war games, but I do confess that I'm happy you now know what's been going on. Cheers.Ferrylodge 03:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

By the way, you might want to consider going to "my preferences" and providing your email address so that you can be contacted via email. Or, you can go to the left-hand-side of my talk page and click on "Email this user."Ferrylodge 03:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I've known about that option but resisted because I already get way too much email. But it probably will be used only rarely and I can always uncheck it, so I'll do it. Sbowers3 04:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

First impressions

I've started going through the "evidence" and it's difficult. First, I don't know what the charges are (incivility?, tendentious editing? something else?) so it's a little hard to tell what charge the evidence is supposed to prove. I thought it might be easier to take one small episode and try to make sense of it. I looked at the May 28 harrassment issue with KC and Bishonen, and your ANI complaint about it. Here are some first impressions:

I see no basis in the evidence for the charge of harrassment and no justification for the block.
You are your own worst enemy in this episode. The facts were on your side but your far too lengthy exposition brought in extraneous information and your tone was far too argumentative.

Similarly, in the CSN the facts were weak but you made yourself look bad. The evidence could not convict you but the nature of your defense could (but should not have).

The tone of your arbitration comments is much better. I suspect it is a result of taking the time to be deliberative rather than responding too quickly. As I remarked earlier I think it's a good idea to ask yourself before clicking the Save page button: Will this post be persuasive? Will it help make my case?

I still think the CSN procedure was terribly flawed. An indef block is absurd. The one-month block (so far) is already too much. The evidence at heart looks mostly like a content dispute and I see discussion that is for the most part appropriate. But you should realize - and you have written at least once that you are human and do make mistakes - that your own behavior can be improved. I think you will achieve better results for yourself if you try to persuade rather than attack and if you take the time to consider your words carefully. Sbowers3 20:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi, thanks very much for the feedback, SBowers3. I am human and do make mistakes, but I will try to do better. It's unclear to me how Misplaced Pages defines the term "attack". I've been on the receiving end of a heck of a lot more "attacks" at Misplaced Pages than I've ever launched, no matter how one defines the word "attack". The word "attack" is kind of vague. If editor A says that editor B is doing something wrong, does that mean editor A is attacking editor B? Does the accuracy of editor A's accusation determine whether it is an "attack"? I am trying my best in the arbitration proceedings to stay on defense rather than offense, because it seems that if I say anything critical of anyone else then it may be construed as either irrelevant or an attack.

I still have to sift through and reply to evidence presented by Severa, although I've already replied partially. Hopefully I'll have time tonight or tomorrow.Ferrylodge 20:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Sbowers gives good advice. Where you are at fault, be willing to admit that, and show a willingness to improve. If you are attacked, let the attacker dig their own grave. Defend yourself, but do not attack back. There is a lot of bad behavior going on around this arbitration on the part of several people, and it does not go unnoticed by arbitrators or observers. So I think if you just relax, and be deliberative and humble, you'll probably do ok. - Crockspot 21:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Secret evidence

I think it's very disturbing that secret evidence may be used against you in this arbitration while, at the same time, other editors are insisting you can't forward an email to the ArbCom which KillerChihuahua sent to you. My (completely non-expert) advice to you would be that if this email is particularly abusive--more incivil than anything KC directed at you on WP--or if it provides a unique and crucial piece of evidence, then go ahead and send it. It's not as though you and KC used to be best friends and she shared some really personal piece of information with you. That's my advice based on my personal instinct of fairness. I have no prior experience with ArbCom, so I can't guarantee they don't have some strange idea that personal emails are absolutely sacrosanct--even those written between strangers in conflict with one another. Eseymour 13:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Eseymour. I sent a message to the Arbitration Committee yesterday, seeking clarification on those two matters. There's no way that I'm going to forward those emails to the Arbitration Committee without permission.Ferrylodge 15:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

reply

My comment referred to the CSN discussion, and so preceded the evidence presented to arbitration. A topic ban of a few months would have given you the opportunity to demonstrate your good will towards the project, and avoided arbitration. Any such discussion was cut off by the site ban. Banno 20:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, Banno. According to my understanding, I have been unblocked since October 8, and thus have been able to edit any article in Misplaced Pages. However, if I were to edit "any page other than ArbCom pages and relevant user talk pages" then I would be re-blocked. So, I have chosen to not edit any Misplaced Pages articles since October 8, which perhaps demonstrates some good will. Anyway, we'll see what happens. Cheers.Ferrylodge 20:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

That was a very good point, which I just added as evidence. - Crockspot 21:24, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

motion re arbitration

Seeing your motion about soapboxing, etc. and requesting that arbitrators who assert same please explain themselves, I looked at the proposed decision. I'll just note that the one arbitrator's mention of soapboxing is simply a statement of proposed principle, not a finding of fact. Sbowers3 15:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Ferrylodge Q & A

I'm not quite sure where you got the impression that the decision announces that you've been "guilty of soapboxing and propaganda"; the finding of fact regarding you merely states that your editing has been disruptive (cf. a more pointed finding). I am quite convinced, based on the evidence presented, that you have edited disruptively; the edit-warring (and resulting 3RR violations) is fairly clear proof of that.

As for the remedy, it's not ambiguous at all: you are banned from "any article or other page having to do with pregnancy or abortion". Kirill 16:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I had inferred (apparently incorrectly) that your proposed principle about soapboxing and propagandizing was meant to apply to me.

You are correct that I have been disruptive: I have been blocked for 3RR twice since joining Misplaced Pages in May of 2004. I have apologized both times. I do not believe that your proposed further remedy for that disruption would be helpful.Ferrylodge 16:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Check this out

Compare this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PZ_Myers&diff=prev&oldid=152625954

04:14, 21 August 2007 (hist) (diff) PZ Myers‎ (rv, reading the source, he contrasts it against less ferverent churches)

With this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PZ_Myers&diff=prev&oldid=152748224

19:02, 21 August 2007 (hist) (diff) PZ Myers‎ (You've confused two distinct types, he's contrasting those that are "annoying random evangelical cultie" against those with a "fervent congregation")

Same article, same issue, very similar edit comment. 67.135.49.158 23:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, whoever your are, I have not taken a position about whether Odd Nature and FeloniousMonk are the same person. It does not seem very relevant to the question of whether the accusations against me are valid, or are invalid, or are riddled with lies and distortions. In any event, it appears that I will not be at Misplaced Pages much longer.Ferrylodge 23:18, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Assuming the ArbCom allows you to stay (which, if they don't, proves Misplaced Pages is a farce run by a clique of bullies), I urge you to stick around. Misplaced Pages has its problems, but we need good editors like yourself to make it better. Eseymour 14:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

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