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This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Sports Car Racing and anything related to its purposes and tasks.
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Archive

Archives

Archive 1

Group 4 (racing) and Group 5 (racing)

From my references, it seems that Sports Cars was originally a Group 4 (racing) class, this being the case from at least 1966 until 1969 and cars like the Ford GT40 and Porsche 917 were homologated into Group 4.

We know this from the FIA List of Previously Homologated Cars, that can be found at the FIA Historic Racing Regulations page, showing homologation of the Porsche 917 and Ferrari 512 into Group 4. Then some time around 1970(?), the Group 4 sports cars (production run of 25) were moved to Group 5 and the Group 4 becase "special grand touring cars (production 500)". So this means the Group 5 (racing) page needs some tidy up as there would appear to be three phases of Group 5 cars.

  • Phase 1: Group 5 Special touring cars (1966 or 1968?)
  • Phase 2: Group 5 Sports cars - ex Group 4 - production run of 25 (1970 ish?)
  • Phase 3: Group 5 Silhouette GT cars - starting about 1972.

Does anyone have some better and more exact dates (and references) for these, so we can update the Group 5 page? --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 10:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

It seems a bit more complicated than I thought - looking at the various FIA appendix J from 69, 71, 75 and 76 (and other references), there seem to be at least 4 phases of Group 5 racing and it seems to go a bit like this (please correct me if I'm wrong):
  • 1966-1969: Group 5 Special touring cars
  • 1970-1971: Group 5 Sports cars - ex Group 4 - production run of 25
  • 1972-1975: Group 5 Sports cars (up to 3.0L) - seems to include sports and prototypes????
  • 1976-1982: Group 5 special production cars (Silhouette GT cars)
Can anyone suggest some other (non FIA site) references for this one? --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 11:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Club Racing

Shouldn't this project include club racing, like SCCA, PBOC, etc? It's not professional or televised or anything, but it IS sports car racing. The series list only seems to contain professional racing series. JDS2005 16:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

They can be covered, but there's just not a lot that can be written on them that there is on professional series. The list of covered series at the top isn't complete, people can add what they feel should be covered. The359 18:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Some of this is covered on the SCCA page, and while we could add these series (and club racing series in other countries), we have to be careful to fulfil the requirements of notability and avoid any sort of soapbox or self-promotion type of articles. If the subject meets the criterion of "a topic is notable if it has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself", then it should be worth covering in Misplaced Pages. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 09:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Changes in Templates

Hi, I'm currently making some changes over on the WikiProject Motorsport Assessment Page. Look in the statistics section. Only 240 articles have the template WikiProject Motorsport on it. I'm thererfore going to propose something (I think this has been discussed a while back). Can every single Motorsport article have the template on it's talk page. My reasoning for this is that some drivers have only the Formula One template on the article. However, surely (by the way, this goes for virtually all articles), they haven't got to Formula One someway. They haven't just been thrown into F1, I don't think any drivers done that. They've gone through other forms of Motorsport. Therefore, surely the Misplaced Pages Motorsport template is needed for every single Motorsport article?. I'm going to do a vote on this (on this page, plus the Motorsport project and all the child projects) so we can get a decision on this. By the way, don't bother voting on different projects, as only one of your votes will count! Davnel03 16:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Agree


  • Disagree


  • Leave Comments Here

New discusssion on Motorsport talk page. Davnel03 18:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Does this mean you are going to restore the votes and comments that have been removed from here, and move them to the other page? --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 21:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Clay Regazzoni

I'm trying to finish off the Clay Regazzoni article for a stab at GA, but can't find much in the way of references for his sports car appearances in the early 1970s. Can anyone either reference the relevant section or the article or advise on where I can find suitable online sources? Cheers. 4u1e 8 March 2007, 14:58

Question of copyright

I had been looking at the Ferrari 512 page and noticed what appears to be copyright infringement. In fact, I feel that most of the page needs to be removed or rewritten, I'd appreciate if people could take a look at the page, comment on the talk page and possibly help with the rewrite. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 10:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

19xx in motor racing categories

I've recently created Category:1950 in motor racing - Category:1968 in motor racing. So, feel free to add any relevant articles or subcategories into these new categories. -- DH85868993 12:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

IMSA

After covering pretty much every major international sports car series, I believe the time has finally come to properly go over the IMSA series. However I believe there is one major hurdle to overcome before we can actually cover it. What do we name it? The series had many names of the years, mainly due to sponsors, but what is the most common name for the series? Looking over results, here's a breakdown of the names:

  • 1971: IMSA GT Series
  • 1972-1978: Camel GT/Camel GT Challenge
  • 1979: Winston GT
  • 1980: IMSA GT Series
  • 1981-1993: Camel GT Championship
  • 1994-1997: Exxon World Sportscar Championship
  • 1998: Professional SportsCar Racing Championship

Should we go with IMSA GT? Camel GT? Something else? Suggestions welcome. The359 21:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, once this is established, everything regarding the series should be moved from International Motor Sports Association to the new series page, and IMSA should remain merely about the governing body, especially since it governs a multitude of series (GT, IMSA Supercar, IMSA Lights, GT3 Cup) The359 21:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually I would like to suggest IMSA GT considering the the series went through three different sponsorships, or two since Camel and Winston are by R.J Reynolds, including one by the oil company and the last one through a different name before it settled for ALMS, so what do you think? Willirennen 01:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Just to remind you all that, I have created a new article called IMSA GT, I am currently in the process of rewriting the IMSA page to allow for the other series IMSA hosts. Willirennen 23:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Good deal, this'll allow me to start doing individual season pages for IMSA during the summer. The359 23:39, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Although it is not necessarily sports car racing, could anybody shed some light about the two less major series, I have written it in, its the IMSA RS and Firehawk Series, I'm getting the impression that they are the same series, and what is the difference of the two

Le Mans race year shortcut template

Hi. Just a note to let you know about Template:24hLM. It is a shortcut template useful when writing driver and vehicle articles, to remove the need to laboriously write ] every time you want to directly link to a particular Le Mans race. To use the template just type {{24hLM|yyyy}} and the link will appear as yyyy. Pyrope 19:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Useful, thanks. Now I just need to see if I'll actually remember to use it... The359 19:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Porsche motorsport article

Following discussion on the Porsche talk page, Porsche in motorsport has been created. Please consider whether any links to Porsche need to be changed to Porsche in motorsport. -- DH85868993 14:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Standard width for driver infoboxes

There are numerous driver articles which contain multiple infoboxes, for the different series the driver has competed in. One issue is that the various driver infoboxes are different widths, which means that the infoboxes don't always "stack" neatly - contrast Olivier Gendebien (all infoboxes the same width) with Julian Bailey (different width infoboxes). The current infobox widths are:

  • 25 em: F1 driver, A1GP driver, V8 Supercar driver, WRC driver
  • 24 em: Former F1 driver, Former Champ Car driver, Former F3 driver, Le Mans drivers
  • 22 em: BTCC driver, BTCC alumnus, DTM driver, Junior series driver, Pickup Truck driver, Infobox racing driver
  • 270px (which is very close to 24em): all the NASCAR driver infobox templates

I propose that we standardise the width of all driver infoboxes at 24em, to improve the visual appearance of articles containing multiple infoboxes. Please leave comments here. DH85868993 14:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Please note that this proposal doesn't immediately affect WP:SCR as the only currently relevant template (Template:Le Mans drivers) already conforms to DH's proposed formatting. However, future templates are also an issue, so please join in the debate. Pyrope 21:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Following broad support at WP:MOTOR, all motorsport people infoboxes have now been changed to a standard width of 24em. -- DH85868993 12:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Important!

One thing it seems we all forgot when deciding on the image for the template (Template:WikiProject Sports Car Racing) was that images on templates must be free images (because a free alternative could be used, see WP:FU). Niether of the options presented were suitable. Please take a look over at Template talk:WikiProject Sports Car Racing to help decide on a new image for the template. I changed the image currently but that image doesn't have to stay, it's just a filler until we decide on a new one. James086 08:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Help identifying cars

I'm currently importing a load of freely licenced motorsport photos over from flickr, and came across these: . I'm looking for as much info on each of the cars as possible (Make, Model, Year, Events, Driver) to be able to properly describe and categorize it. Thanks, AlexJ 21:52, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

  • The first one is the XL Racing Ferrari 550 Maranello that ran in the GT class. Two were built by XL Racing for the FFSA GT Championship in 2002-2003. It also ran a few races in the ALMS in 2002 (Road American and Petit Le Mans at least). It also ran but failed to finish the 2003 24 Hours of Le Mans. It's not a Prodrive-built 550, but instead a production car modified by XL Racing.
  • The second car is a Racesport Salisbury TVR Tuscan T400R, their racing model in the GT class. The T400R debuted at the 2003 24 Hours of Le Mans, followed by the 2004 Le Mans Series season. The car in this paintjob and with that number (95) ran the 2005 Le Mans Series season as well as the 2005 24 Hours of Le Mans.
  • Third car is a Porsche 917K, the famous "psychedelic" paint scheme. Unfortunately I can't remember when it ran, or what it achieved.
The number is wrong for Le Mans too, but numbers were easily swapped from race to race back then, I assume this car ran both Le Mans and Watkins Glen. The359 17:10, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
No, the LM car was langheck chassis 047, the Glen was kurtzheck chassis 021. It might be the number with which the car ran in the Glen CanAm race the day after the 6h, driven by van Lennep. I'm just surprised as, to the best of my knowlege, chassis 021 has always worn #35 in previous historic appearances. Pyrope 17:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I didn't notice the L vs K difference. But a quick check of results shows the Martini Racing 917K running #35 in the Can-Am race. Maybe it's a replica? The359 17:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it probably is the real car carrying a different number, here is a picture of the car running #115 at a vintage meet in 2002: and here is the car running #31 for the 2004 Classic Endurance Racing series: The359 17:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Nice find! That's solved that then, I can sleep tonight... Pyrope 17:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
and for a bit of useless trivia, Bobby Rahal used to own this car, he brought it so he could compete in the 2002 Le Mans Classic race. Also the 917 was in fact a last minute replacement for current owner, Juan Barazi who was supposed to have bought his Courage-AFR C65 to the event. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Willirennen (talk • contribs) 20:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC).
Hope this helps. The359 22:13, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Found info on the Porsche 917, it's a 917L that finished 2nd at the 1970 24 Hours of Le Mans, run by Martini Racing. The359 21:11, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks guys, just to let you know, the uploaded images are now available on the Wikimedia Commons. They can also be viewed here.AlexJ

I need more help! , a Lancia of some sort. Thanks, AlexJ 13:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
A Lancia LC1. I'm not sure of anything else beyond that, I don't know this car's history. The359 17:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
All I know is that it was the 1982 WSC championship winner, the 2006 FoS programme I have does not state what this chassis number is, all it says is that electrical problems put this car out after 14 hours. The car is owned by Luigi Macaluso who is the President of Girard-Perregaux as well as being a well known rally car collector. I have even looked it up on some various site amd it has no indication which chassis number the car is, all my indication about this is from the WSPR-Racing site, it could be chassis 001003, since the other car (001002) went out with engine failure. Willirennen 20:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Just a subtle hint, the picture would be wonderful for an LC1 article. The LC1 and LC2 are one of the biggest competitors of their time, they're both really deserving of an article. I'd write one if I actually knew much of anything about them. The359 00:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Picture of the Lancia now on my sandbox gallery. Thanks, AlexJ 16:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
If I remember correctly, amongst those photos from Goodwood there is a photo of one of the few Group 5 Lancia Stratos(es?), which would be a welcome addition to that article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The359 (talk • contribs) 16:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

Templates

I've been bold and moved all the sportscar templates from Category:WikiProject Sports Car Racing Templates and Category:Motor racing navigational boxes into new category Category:Sports Car Racing templates and subcategories Category:Sports Car Racing infoboxes and Category:Sports Car Racing navigational boxes. But I wasn't sure what to do about template:WikiProject Sports Car Racing and template:WP:SCR User - should they be in Category:Sports Car Racing templates and/or Category:WikiProject Sports Car Racing Templates and/or Category:WikiProject Sports Car Racing? And do we still need Category:WikiProject Sports Car Racing Templates (which is currently empty) at all? P.S. If people don't like the capitalisation of the new categories (which I based on "WikiProject Sports Car Racing"), I'm willing to change it. -- DH85868993 12:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Motorsport Library

I've made a suggestion at WikiProject Motorsport for a list of hardcopy references and who holds them, to help with referencing articles. This was prompted by the realisation that I have access to quite a lot of material which I'm not currently using. Please comment here. Cheers. 4u1e 16:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

1977 World Sportscar Championship

Looking at the 1977 World Sportscar Championship page, I feel it is very confusing to say that "The 1977 World Sportscar Championship season was the 25th FIA World Championship for Makes" when the 1977 World Sportscar Championship and the 1977 World Championship for Makes were two separate championship series. Personally I think they each deserve their own articles rather than sharing the same one.

I have the same thoughts re 1976 World Sportscar Championship

GTHO 11:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

1000km races

Maybe I'm the only one that has been bothered by this, but should the titles of the various 1000km races be altered? Races like the 24 Hours of Le Mans and 12 Hours of Sebring follow the form of (race distance) of (location). However all the 1000km races leave out the of. Should the articles all be renamed to 1000km of Suzuka or 1000km of Spa and the like? The359 16:41, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, the Spa 24 Hours is the only other race I think of that does not follow the (race distance) of (location) format. I believe that the race is currently refered to as that, but what are people's opinion on consistancy vs proper naming? The359 16:43, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe that we should be using the names that the organisers used in the actual race programs. Where not available, contemporary reports (eg in Automobile Year) are the best bet. By applying a set naming standard we are effectively trying to rewrite history.

The two volume book "Time and Two Seats" which covers all races in all major sports cars series from 1953 to 1998 is an excellent reference although the author has a thing about not including any relevant sponsor name in the race title.

GTHO 03:24, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

What is Norelco Drivers Cup

I want to ask what is Norelco Drivers Cup? Is that a driver's contingency thing and how is it awarded.Willirennen 03:50, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

2007 24 Hours of Le Mans

With Le Mans now two weeks away, I'd like to ask all the members of WikiProject: Sports Car Racing to offer their services to help improve mainly the 2007 24 Hours of Le Mans, but also other main Le Mans articles in any way possible. This could include:

  • Synopsis of Test Day, Practice/Qualifying, and the Race
  • Proper referencing
  • Pictures if possible
  • Etc...

I'd like to have, once the race is over, the winner listed in the "In The News" section of the Misplaced Pages Main Page to help increase exposure of the race and the project.

Plus, since is the crown event for us sports car fans, I'd love to hear some of your predictions for the race this year, just for fun. The359 07:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, on further research, 24 Hours of Le Mans itself needs some major work and expansion. It's in a sad state of affairs now, even after I fixed some things. The359 05:06, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Chart with the details of the different specs?

I think it would be interesting and easier to understand if there was a chart with max weight, typical power, etc of the different classes so people could quickly refer to it when they are trying to get the quick and dirty on the difference between GT2 and GT3 etc. AntoineWalker1066 14:51, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that there are no unified GT rules anymore. ACO's GT1 and GT2 differ from the FIA's GT1 and GT2 and also are likely to differ from various national series GT1 and GT2. Same will also apply to GT3. Was there a specific article in mind where you thought this could be helpful? The359 19:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't thinking "helpful" so much as interesting. Of course the specs change every year, but maybe even as part of the wikimotorsports project page, a chart stating whether a series was purpose built vs. production based, open or closed cockpit, open or closed wheel, etc. If someone is trying to figure out what a particular race car is based on an uncaptioned picture, they could refer to the chart for clues as to the series it was racing in. Might not be practical I guess but if it was I think there might be some value in it. Oops I thought I was logged in. This is Antoine still. 66.82.9.75 20:04, 14 June 2007 (UTC)AntoineWalker1066
There are plans on WP:MOTOR for a page on GT Racing, which I think could discuss the entire difference between production-based GT series and prototype series since the division between the two decades ago. After your initial question I thought out possibilities for what to write, hopefully something can appear soon. The359 20:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Misbehaving(?) template

I think template:WikiProject Sports Car Racing doesn't behave properly when nested. Consider Talk:Charles Pozzi: Notice how when you click on the word "Show" for all the other WikiProject banners, the word "Hide" appears exactly where the word "Show" used to be. Now click on the word "Show" on the WikiProject Sports Car Racing banner - see how the word "Hide" sort of "jumps to the left". I suspect it's to do with the inclusion of the "Shortcut" template within the WP:SCR template. A minor point, certainly, but one that someone (who knows more about code than me) may care to fix. DH85868993 08:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I notice it as well, so it's not just you seeing it. However I don't know much about coding, and didn't even add that element of the code to the template, so it's beyond me about how to fix it. The359 18:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Stub drive

In an effort to help kick the project forward a little, I feel that an attempt should be made to create new articles that appear to be needed. However, instead of attempting to make a thorough article which takes time, at the very least some stubs should be created. I think it may be easier to get people motivated to write something if there is a stub, instead of nothing at all. The359 21:19, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Replacing succession boxes for individual races

One of the quirks of the individual races results pages that have been written so far is that the box at the bottom currently used to move through a season of a race series (Template:Sportscar Race Report) becomes quite uneven due to the variety of name length used in titles. This is especially noticable at the end of a season when one section just says None.

I'd like to hear suggestions about possibly switching to a Succession template similar to the one used on various driver profiles, such as at the bottom of JJ Lehto, which includes sucession boxes used for 24 Hours of Le Mans winners. The boxes are automatically centered regardless of the length of whatever is in the box. The359 19:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

The full page width doesn't look very pretty. Personally I had no problem with the uneven columns, but if the Sportscar Race Report template can be reduced to a width similar to the driver succession box, I'll support it, even if the race name is split between two lines to make it fit. --Pc13 17:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it might help if the race titles were changed in the template. Instead of having 2007 FIA GT Oschersleben 2 Hours we could instead go for just Oschersleben 2 Hours, since the 2007 and FIA GT would be redundant. It'd help bring the width down on the templates. It'd take quite a bit of editing to change every race over though. The359 22:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Or we could that too "/me slaps forehead for not thiking about it". --Pc13 10:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Car identification (again)

A recent gallery of pictures from the Silverstone Classic has appeared on Flickr under licensing that allows it to be uploaded to Commons. Lots of Historic Group C/GTP as well as old Aston Martin sportscars. However I need some help on identifying some of the cars pictured.

  • - A Spice obviously, but I'm not sure which one, I've never really studied Spice chassis. I think it might be the IMSA GTP AK93 which shared some elements with the Allard J2X-C program.
  • - Has a Ford badge on it. C100? A Zakspeed? One of those Mustang Probe GTPs?
  • - Another Spice, I recognize the headlight design at least, but again I don't know the model.
  • - Not a clue here. Definately a C2/Lights car. Ecosse?
  • - Older cars are more difficult for me. Lister?

The full gallery is here. I'll start uploading them soon once I have them identified. The359 22:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I have the full entry list if you need any further confirmations. Some of that gallery have already been uploaded. The answers are...
  1. Yes, Spice Chevrolet GTP. Placed well, and made the best noise of the weekend. Last Spice chassis ever constructed, apparently.
  2. Ford C100. The second Group C car design to appear, after the Porsche 956. Designed by Len Bailey but no more successful than his earlier Ford P68. Later raced as a Zakspeed after Ford orphaned it.
  3. Spice SE86.
  4. Now this one was a late entry, not listed, announced over the tannoy... just as the Spice GTP came past. So I missed it. I have a hunch that it's a Tiga of some ilk though?
  5. Again correct... and another English chassis making home for American big-block iron, a Lister Chevrolet.
There are more details, and even a full race report (for the GpC/GTP/IMSA races at least), at Group C/GTP Racing. Pyrope 23:32, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The "Spice Chevrolet GTP" is colored to look like the Brix car, but several design elements don't jog with the AK93. The fourth car is identified in MST Timing as a "Harrier DFL", most likely a LR6. Looks like the Tiga when viewed from the front, that was my first guess too. --Pc13 00:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Looking through the archives, it definately appears to be a Harrier, but what specific one I don't know. this LR7 and this LR6 look almost identical. The359 00:40, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Ooof, I've found a second guy on Flickr who was at the event and released all his picture on Creative Commons. Prepare for a crapload of uploaded Group C/GTP pictures. The359 06:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

One more car I can't identify: I assume it's an ADA from the look of the nose, but I'm not positive. There's no sponsorship to help me find it in photo archives. The359 18:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
That's the Bardon Ford DB2. Pyrope 18:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
p.s. As Pc13 alluded to earlier, the entry list and results are also available online here. Pyrope 18:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I didn't realize the car numbers were on the PDF, I just had been going off of the list of car names/sponsors on the website. The359 19:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I figured out the Spice, it is not the Brix Racing car (which had an Acura V6). WSRP lists SE92-025 as having a Chevrolet V8, which was later rebuilt with a narrow cockpit and bi-plane wing. This is the car it had actually started out life as. So the car seen at Silverstone is not in its original racing configuration. The359 05:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the pictures of the car are worth uploading if it doesn't look at all like the original Spice. I'm not even sure if Spice even did the modifications. The359 05:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
The Spice picture in that image is as run by Spice USA/David Tennyson Racing in 1993 though the livery is wrong. While true SE92-025 was convereted to AK93 GTP spec and therefore wasn't originally in this configuration when the car was first built, this is the last original configuration the car was in and is correct to the car, espcially if you're using the SE92-025 chassis number. In general, figure as Spices were upgraded (SE86 to SE88, SE90, etc.) their chassis plate tended to reflect the upgrade. Additionally SE92-025 was the only Spice converted to AK93 GTP spec, so there are slight differences between this configuration and the Camel Lights AK93 configuration. There were only ever three AK93 kits manufactured; one to Brix, one to Comtech, and one to Spice USA Mulsannescorner (talk) 05:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yet another one...

Found another group of photos of historic cars, having trouble with this one. 908? 910? Something else? The359 00:17, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Judging by the lights and the shape and position of the air intakes I would say an early model 908, almost identical to the one shown here. Pyrope 07:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
That does look right. The funky arrangement of the slots at the front seemed to be what was throwing me off the most. Almost thought it was an early 917 at one point. The359 07:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

2007 Le Mans Series race results up for deletion

Soon after posting the results for the 2007 1000km of Spa for the Le Mans Series earlier today, someone had decided to nominate all four results for 2007 in the Le Mans Series (Monza, Valencia, and Nürburgring) for deletion, citing that because they are mostly results tables they are deletable. Please voice your opinion regarding this AfD at this discussion. The359 21:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Nationality of some sports car teams

I've spent some time recently placing articles about auto racing teams into the relevant "<country> auto racing teams" categories. I've done all the teams listed in Category:Sports car racing teams except the following ones, about which I was unsure:

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can put these articles into the right categories (or just advise of the correct country/ies so I can do it). Thanks. DH85868993 02:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Direxiv is not a team, they are just a sponsor who happened to be part of team names, such as "DPR Direxiv Racing" which was really just David Price Racing.
  • Fernandez might technically be American, or at least licensed as American, but they almost universally identify as Mexican. I'm not sure what to do with that one.
  • JetAlliance is Austrian, they raced under Austrian license last year as well under the RaceAlliance name.
  • Krohn is American
  • SunTrust Racing is American, they actually took over from another team I believe with SunTrust as primary sponsor.
  • Toyota Team Europe is based out of Germany, but I believe they have raced under the Japanese flag in most series. I'd say use both. The359 02:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, 359. DH85868993 04:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Fernandez might operate with a Mexican racing license, even though they're based in America. JMB Racing is a similar case, they changed address to Monaco to operate with a Monegasque racing license, even though they're still based in Nice. I believe facility location should not be important to define team nationality - Benetton raced in F1 as Italian while operating from the UK, Penske used to build their Indycar chassis in the UK too. And Direxiv raced in Super GT as "Direxiv Motorsports" in the past, but I don't know who was behind the technical operations, it might have been a "Carsport Holland" situation as well. --Pc13 07:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm fairly sure Direxiv is actually just a sponsor title being used in place of a team's actual name. If I remember correctly, Direxiv itself as a company was actually related to food somehow... The359 07:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, Fernandez has both Mexican and American flags on their car (commons:Image:Lola_B0643.jpg). It might be best to call them both, like with TTE. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 01:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's what I did:

Thanks for all your help. DH85868993 02:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

FYI -- Fernandez runs under a US License. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.40.249.20 (talk) 16:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

And now for a round of "Name That Race"...

Not '52 Le Mans...

Hi. I just removed the image on the right from the pages 1952 24 Hours of Le Mans and List of 24 Hours of Le Mans winners. It was described by the original uploader as depicting the 1952 Le Mans event, however, in that race the #22 car was the works Mercedes 300SL of Kling/Klenk, which that car plainly is not. So, any ideas about where it might actually be? Judging by the soldier/policeman, the scenery and the huge volume of sand, I'm guessing Spain, Italy or north Africa. Assuming that it is indeed 1952 (I can find no evidence that it is) then we can also eliminate the Targa Florio on car number grounds. Alternatively, the lead car is almost certainly either a Ferrari 166 S or 195 S, so the date could be up to four years earlier. In fact, I am 99.9% certain that it is the 1949-winning 166MM of Selsdon and (mostly) Chinetti, as shown here. But as I say, the scenery looks wrong for La Sarthe. A similar car ran under the same number in the 1949 Circuito di Pescara, but is the centre spotlight too much of a coincidence? Is the Pescara car in fact this one? Any help pinning it down would be appreciated! Pyrope 09:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

It might be Le Mans 1949 at that. The #11 blue car is a Delahaye, and a #11 Delahaye finished 5th that year, driven by Robert Brunet and Georges Grignard. But are you sure that's a photograph and not an illustration? It might be just the resolution's fault, but those look like painted colours to me. --Pc13 10:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the level of detail in the wicker fencing and for the countryside in the background indicate that it is a photograph, although probably a hand-tinted one. Also, no artist worth their salt would have included an electricity pylon! If it is hand-tinted then that would explain the slightly unreal and unplaceable landscape. Thanks for identifying the #11 car, that just about seals it as the '49 Le Mans race. Pyrope 10:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

As a separate point linked to the same image, I am fairly sure that any use of it other than for the Auto Sport Review magazine article contravenes fair use as defined in {{Non-free magazine cover}}? However, as the image is now 58 years old, is it still under copyright? Pyrope 11:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Tojeiro troubles...

Toj Jag

I'm enjoying this game, so this time something a bit different. Not so much "name that car", but "explain that car". I recently snapped this Toj (see right) at the SeeRed meeting at Donington. While it is undoubtedly a Tojeiro Jaguar I'm a bit stumped as to which one it is. I have seen the reg. number 7 GNO on the third car, but it was wearing very different bodywork (see here). This one is plainly D-type based, so I can't imagine that swapping bodies is easy as the monocoque should be partially stressed skin in construction. So, is this car borrowing a number? Is the other? Have they actually gone to the trouble of rebodying it? Anyone able to cast some light on the conundrum? Ta! Pyrope 13:09, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Expansion of prototype articles

I've been thinking about a way to organize various types of prototypes that have been used in racing since the move from production-based cars to the custom-built prototypes of today. We already have Group C, Le Mans Prototype, and Daytona Prototype. I think we can stand to see an article dedicated to Group 6 (currently a redirect to Group C), as well as a creation of Grand Touring Prototype (currently a redirect to IMSA GT Championship). Finally, Sports-prototype (currently a redirect to Le Mans Prototype) can be made into a short summary page of the various types of prototypes of the years, including some elements seen in sports car racing.

Ideas? The359 07:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that sports-prototype is the generic name, and certainly shouldn't link to a particular series, and a brief summary of the development of prototype racing and its differences from GT or production-based racing need expounding on there. I think that this page should operate as a hub, from which the various, specific series can be linked and drawn together. As prototypes arguably have their roots in the Brooklands specials of the pre-WWII years, some historical perspective can also be included on a general page, which wouldn't be appropriate when discussing a single series. Pyrope 13:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Should the article be Sports-prototype, Sports prototype, or possibly Prototype (motorsports) or Prototype (sports car racing)? Or anything else? The359 04:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I reckon that it ought to be Sports prototype. That is the most familiar construction, in my experience, and a google search would appear to back it up. As for qualifying which sport the prototype is referring to, I can't think of another sport with an intrinsic prototyping aspect to it. The above link has existed as a redirect to LMP for well over a year now and nobody has complained. Pyrope 09:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I've started a stub. It's not much of anything, but I think the seperation between sports car and prototype makes history quite difficult. I'd like to have a brief explanation of each type of prototype as well as a link to a main article, but just for now I've made it a list. The359 06:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft for Speedy Deletion

Just to remind everybody, as the article creator, I have been given a CSD tag although it was sourced from numerous sites. What can I do about this? Willirennen 02:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Just to point out that it was a work of a vandal. Willirennen 02:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I would assume it might be related to User:69.231.5.43, who you seem to have hit a nerve with. Hopefully this doesn't continue as he seems to like to attack any page you've worked on, and that obviously affects a large number of motorsports pages. The359 03:31, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Apparently, it started when I removed his beloved popular culture section of the Plymouth Valiant, plus funny enough, the User talk:Mastermesh came and added a speedy deletion, therefore I assume it is him. Willirennen 03:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Scuderia Ferrari / Ferrari

These two articles are something that I think really needs the attention of this project. After a quick review of Scuderia Ferrari, I found only 2 mentions of Ferrari's early exploits in the Mille Miglia, 1 mention of only 1950s World Sportscar Championship success, 4 mentions of Le Mans victories, and a mention of Ferrari leaving sports cars in 1973. Ferrari on the other hand only mentions the company winning their first Le Mans, and speaks more of the history of Luigi Chinetti and NART than Le Mans itself.

I think that one of the most successful manufacturers and teams in sports car racing from the 1950s-1973 deserves a little more attention than this.

There is however one quick question that I was curious about and hope someone can answer, while we attempt to expand these two articles at the same time. Scuderia Ferrari participated in the WSC from 1953 to 1961. However from 1962 to 1973, the factory teams were entered under variations of the name SpA Ferrari SEFAC. So my question is, was Scuderia Ferrari still the factory sports car team from 1962 onward, or was the sports car division considered a seperate entity from Scuderia Ferrari in this period? The359 18:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm also considering bringing this up with WP:MOTOR because I think that non-Formula One stuff really needs to be expanding on not only Ferrari, but several other major teams/manufacturers as well. The359 18:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree as well, as I feel sorry for today's kids who seem to think all Ferrari did and achieved is F1, when in reality Enzo cared more about the Italian road races more than F1. I always think that the Scuderia and SEFAC was the same team rather than being a separate entity. Willirennen 12:37, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, Scuderia and SEFAC (Scuderia Enzo Ferrari Auto Corse) are synonyms. The racing entity was identical. I'll leave a few more comments at the article's talk page. Pyrope 14:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of expanding the racing section on Ferrari to at least include their championship wins and Le Mans wins, just to cover the basics. The359 02:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Japan Le Mans Challenge cancelled - Merge articles?

Word has come that the Japan Le Mans Challenge, which was only created in 2006, has already been cancelled by the ACO. A new, broader Asian series might come in 2009, but for now there's no more JLMC.

The series was extremely small and only ran two seasons, most races only having a dozen or so cars. I'm wondering if some articles should be deleted and changed to redirects. There's currently the main article (Japan Le Mans Challenge), two season pages (2006 Japan Le Mans Challenge season and the not updated 2007 Japan Le Mans Challenge season), and three race pages from 2006 (2006 Sportsland Sugo 1000km, 2006 Motegi 1000km, and 2006 Okayama 1000km, with none of the races for 2007 ever written).

Merge the few race pages into the season pages? Merge the season pages into just the general article? With a series this short-lived, small, and with so littl einformation about it, I think having specific race/season pages might fail notability. The359 (talk) 18:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

1 Year

Just an announcement that today is the 1 year anniversary of this project being started. There are now just over 1000 articles tagged under the banner of this project, and I think that sports car racing has grown a great deal here on Misplaced Pages in this past year, especially in comparison to other forms of motorsport. Some areas have grown far beyond what I had expected, while there are always areas where I wish more could be done.

However, this should not take away from the work that everyone involved in the project has done, no matter how little or how much. Thanks to everyone who has helped get this project off the ground, and hopefully more sports car fans will appear and things will continue to improve. The359 (talk) 16:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)