Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by とある白い猫 (talk | contribs) at 17:15, 11 July 2005 (→PKK). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Redirect

See to see how to make an automated redirect, and read about all the details about Misplaced Pages:Redirects if you want to know more. Thanks for editing, and feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Tuf-Kat 19:22, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

Just to clarify, click on the link I provided and then "edit this page". You have to type #redirect ] to make a redirect. Tuf-Kat 19:23, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks :) -- FrancisTyers 19:32, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Anarcho Punk Ideology

Thanks for making a contribution to this page. I think you are the first to make an actual contribution to the content of the article (other than spelling corrections, etc.) other than me :)

Hey man, no problem :) -- FrancisTyers 00:36, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Edit summary

Dear contributor, first I would like to say a big thank you for your time, care, and enthusiasm in editing Misplaced Pages articles. I hope you find it just as much fun as I do.

I am writing with a small suggestion. I wonder if you could write an edit summary every time you make changes to an article (or when you start a new one). Even a short summary helps. To see how often you have done so in the past, you may go to http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Contributions&target=YOUR USERNAME.

Edit summaries are important for a number of reasons. Every time you change an article, a record of that change propagates to every single person who has that article on their watchlist. Most people have an article on their watchlist because they care a lot about it, so they would like to be informed about what is going on with it. Accurate summaries help people decide whether it is worthwhile for them to check a change. This is why your edit summary, which will take you maybe 15 seconds, is a time-saver and a great act of candor to the other people interested in the same article as you. Accurate edit summaries are important because they create trust regarding your contributions and help resolve disputes.

There are other, very convincing reasons for putting an edit summary. More information is available at Misplaced Pages:Edit summary. If at any point you have any questions about this rule (or anything else for that matter), please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you and happy editing! Hyacinth 20:24, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No problem, I normally do it, unless the change is really trivial or i forget, just check that page yourself, i summarise more often than not ;) FrancisTyers 20:26, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Kurdistan Workers Party

Bad timing :) Well I have been writing the article from scratch. I actualy have "proof" via numerious webpages which I added before writing the article, I had taken a sleap break though. I welcome any productive contribution, Id prefer to finish my version first though, often I am quoting the web sites I provided. There isnt much I can say about PKK that is pleasant. --Cool Cat 05:42, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Hey Francis! Sure, I can and will help out as much as I can and will (of course I want). The idea of splitting up in different articles is excellent. I was thinking of creating a PKK wikitionary on DozaMe.org, but had problems setting up the MediaWiki. I would also like to confirm the Turkish translation of "Fuck the Borders". :) I am still trying to think of a Kurdish one. Will notify you when I get a good translation.

--Berxwedan 10:53, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Cool thanks man! I'll update the Fuck the border page. I'll start a section on the PKK Talk page for re-formatting the article. - FrancisTyers 13:18, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Man, I've read over the PKK article a couple of times and it sounds worse every time. I don't understand why you guys are pampering with this User:Coolcat guy. The guy has an agenda and is clearly biased. Check the Al Qaeda article. They've done HUGE acts of terror but the writer of the article have used NPOV. In the article there are no "wannabe neutral"-wordgames like "assumed by some, but not others", "some claims, but others don't", "americans thinks like this, jihadists think like that", "called this by this groups, but this by the other group", etc etc etc etc.. It's like a soup man.. :) --Berxwedan 22:09, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I know, tell me about it. The reason we're tolerating him is because basically any changes we make will be reverted. Please feel free to make additions, but try not to remove any stuff for now, even if you are duplicating or contradicting something that he has written. If you get what I mean :) Ideally it should be possible to out-information him. - FrancisTyers 28 June 2005 13:22 (UTC)

Village Guards

Interesteing, for Village guards I have no comment for you. You know everything about what happened and is going on in the region apperantly. I do not know what you are trying to do, but its a horrible practice to push arguments off of articles like this. --Cool Cat 13:33, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually I don't know everything that is going on in the region. I wouldn't class myself as a scholar of the region at all. I am however capable of researching using (in my opinion fairly neutral sources), they are all listed at the end of the article. I would really like to get my hands on the text of the 1995 Turkish Parliament report into 'Unsolved Political Killings' that is mentioned in many of the sources, and would be grateful of any assistance in this. I think it might be useful for the PKK article aswell. I welcome contributions to the village guards article. In your opinion does village guards deserve an article of its own? If you think not, please put on a VfD. :) - FrancisTyers 13:56, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

I think should know several things avout the viliige guards. I dont put articles onf VfD because I dislike them.

1. Turkish millitary thought PKK was a bad idea.

Well, they would ;)

1. Idea was invented By Ozal who is said to be kurdish in origin.

Sources I've read say he is partially Kurdish in origin.

The "idea" was implemented in 1987 by the Governor Hayri Kozakcioglu of the Provinces of Martial Law (OHAL). It's official name is "Temporary Village Guard System". (Gecici Korucu Sistemi, in Turkish). --Berxwedan 11:08, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

1. Villige guards were affiliated with PKK on many occasions. It wasnt uncommon to have morning villige guards (who consecutivrely did nothing but get paid) and night time preforming PKK duties depending on their agreement with the PKK.

Could you give a source for this? I can imagine it is true, and i'll add a line to the article, but it would be nice to have a source.

In some areas, the Village Guards were more loyal to the PKK than to the Turkish government. There are no sources on this though. It's "hearsay".--Berxwedan 11:08, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

1. Yes it is true, just like any law evforcement people abuse the power they got, each town had few guards without anything balancing powers aside from the few Gendermeries which patrol the region.

I agree, can you think of a good way of wording this?

1. One reason the abolishment of the town guards is hard because of their attacks.
2. Generalising the group as evil in general is POV tho. Mind that I am not declaring the reporsts as lies or as fabricated. I refuse to believe each and every Villige guard is hired by the govermrnt soley to commit crimes and etc.

I agree! You can't generalise in this manner about everyone in a group, the same way as you can't generalise about everyone in the PKK.

The problem is that the Village Guard system is a way for the government to "buy" loyalty from Kurdish clans. The Village Guard system makes this legal. Which means that as long as there is a Kurdish issue in southeastern Turkey (northern Kurdistan) the Village Guard system will exist. It has nothing to do with "continuing attacks". The HPG (military wing) has already declared that they will not attack any Village Guard that refuses to join Turkish military operations. PKK also abolished attacks on Village Guard villages in the mid-90ies. The name "Village Guard" itself is not relevant anymore. It should be named "Kurdish clan battalions within the Turkish army" or something similar.--Berxwedan 11:08, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

1. I honestly think this should be ept in PKK article as Villige Guards alone is not a notable article. Besides, I dont believe villige guards is the acurate translation.

I got this translation from all my sources, if you can think of a better name (perhaps the official turkish name?) I would be happy to rename. Note: I just discovered a better name would be "village guard system" or "Koruculuk", should i move to rename?

1. Almost any illicet drug in Erope/US is shipped through Turkey, while not made in turkey, this is a known problem. Corruption in gov does not help in combating this.

I basicaly agree and yet disagree with you.

PS: You should refrain from using Kurdistan to define protions of turkey, its not standard and is POV. You will be offending some kurds I know as well as most (if not all) Turks I have known. Its a sensative matter, trust me, last thing you want is a revert war escalating. --Cool Cat 11:17, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I realise that articles shouldn't be put in VfD just because someone doesn't like them, but if you think that it isn't worthy of its own wiki page, i think it is. Thanks for your comments, I will try and adjust the article somewhat, I definately realise that every village guard is not a complete criminal, but you should also recognise that the same goes for members of the PKK. You made some analogies with Vietnam in the PKK article, a similar thing happened there with people in the US employment during the day then VC at night, or informers on the US. Please take a look at the village guards article and see what you think now. I have taken on board your suggestions and hopefully a better article has resulted. Please feel free to suggest more. (ps. i readded your note about "US Navy's collection of news articles"). - FrancisTyers 17:55, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

copy vio, impressive. what other tricks do you have? --Cool Cat 04:41, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

The copyvio was put on as some of the stuff was directly copied, I didn't check the precise copyright status, but it looked copyright to me, the ICT page has the © on the front page. I wasn't sure so I asked on IRC first, I received a couple of responses that indicated that yes it was appropriate to put a copyvio notice on. This is not a trick. Btw. Nice comeback ;) - FrancisTyers 12:46, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

no problems :) please comment on my editing - Kassem 08:14, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

by the way, using "kurdistan" word might be offensive to the turks, well using "south-eastern turkey" name is offensive to most kurds, so I suggest both be put : South Eastern Turkey ( what nationalists kurds call North Kurdistan ) or something like that. I know the turks choke every time somebody says "Kurdistan", but this is not my problem. A few years ago, the word "kurd" was forbidden too. now they use it. so they'll have to adapt to "kurdistan" too, as it is in every dictionary and encyclopedia of the world ( check the Collin's English Dictionary, for example, or the french Larousse )

- Kassem 12:28, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

RfCs

See also: Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment#Comment about individual users

 — Davenbelle 12:59, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

United Citizens Alliance

Hi, Thank you for your note. I didn't actually write the article, a friend of mine did; and she actually worked hard to make it more objective. (She is a VERY zealous citizen though LOL) She did include a section for critisims of the UCA.

Also, to clear up what I believe is a misunderstanding: the UCA is quite organized and operative right now. We've accomplished a lot in the past few years. We just recently hired new web designers and all of our websites are being completely rebuilt from the ground up. (That nasty flash page is just a temp front splash screen until the final version is finished.)

In any case I thought your suggestion about making it a much shorter article was a valid one, and I took the liberty of cutting it down to about half the size it was. Perhaps you'll consider changing your vote?

Trish Kincade

Oficejo de Hegemonaj Aferoj de UCA

www.hegemono.gov.uca.cc

tkinc6971@oha.gov.uca.cc

Hey, you should recreate this page (probably best starting with a 2-3 paragraph stub) when the treaty is signed. Also Press Secretary eh, would a move to the USA be required? ;) - FrancisTyers 14:59, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

LOL, actually I took a quick look at you CV, and you may want to look here and see if any of the open positions interest you. Trishkincade 17:49, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

PKK timeline

I was wondering about what is not working...

If you think the important dates are missing you are welcome to add, but the dates in the timeline is correct, even though I must admit most of the criminal activities are missing, as it is collection from Turkish News Paper articles. Turkish goverment did not publish any report on detailing PKK's activities.

I 'm adding the timeline to give chance other people to work on. THAT IS THE MAIN IDEA BEHIND WIKIPEDIA right?

My main problem isn't with the information contained within the timeline necessarily, my problem is the timeline. The layout. It breaks Misplaced Pages. The rest of the page re-sizes fine, but that timeline introduces scroll bars along the bottom of the screen (and i'm running 1400x1050!). It just looks wrong. No other "terrorist" organisation pages have timelines that break their pages and neither does the page on Turkey have a timeline detailing their abuse of the Kurdish people. And to be honest, its the first time I've seen this timeline in use in Misplaced Pages.

A note from the comments on the timeline:

Above item is in process of translation, you are welcome to assist me in this process. Also it does not "look right"

The author admits it does not look right. Please don't add it again until it does. If you want to work on it to improve the look, feel free. But don't add it to the article until it is finished. - FrancisTyers 1 July 2005 07:50 (UTC)

This timeline is a 1600 px timeline. That is because PKK is a very complicated issue with multiple dimensions. I have a 1024 pixel screen it is very very o.k. in my screen. I do not scare from scroll bars. I was wondering if your reaction is outlined in "timeline detailing their abuse". That smeels, because it laied out very clearly how PKK is tourtured people and shaped their international politics in Turkey, that torture is as inclusive statement (I'm a kordek, from erzurum).

I don't care either way about the information, the article is already in as bad a state as it is. The thing I don't like is the look and feel. I don't think it adds anything to the page and it certainly detracts from it. Its difficult to read and to be honest I think it looks really ugly. How about making it a vertical instead of horizontal timeline? - FrancisTyers 1 July 2005 15:46 (UTC)

I tried vertical. It does not accommodate textual information as good as vertical one.

Timelines, have been used in many contexts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wikistats/EN/TimelinesIndex.htm

It is a wikipedia application that enhances the information.

I would like to see a bright person like you in adding timelines to wikipedia than opposing it.

None of those timelines give me a scrollbar at the bottom of my screen. Personally I don't think they enhance the information. Especially in this case. - FrancisTyers 1 July 2005 15:42 (UTC)

Not everyone is textaul

Some of us graps the information, which has multiple dimensions and complex relationships, in graphic form more easily.

I tried to move some of the historical information from Turkish, If you edit the sentences I would be very happy. Also, there is a very good summary about the effects of PKK on Turkish population (30 years of low intensity fight). I would like to translate to English, but it would require someone to work on my translation. Would you be interested in this?

GFDL pics on Commons

Hi, you added pics on Wikimedia Commons tagged as GFDL but didn't provide any futher informations. Please specify at least the author and source or they will have to be deleted. Thanks. --Avatar-en 7 July 2005 12:48 (UTC)

Done, I wasn't aware this was necessary when uploading your own content. Thanks for the heads up. - FrancisTyers 8 July 2005 10:35 (UTC)

PKK

I hope to see a better discussion. If you continue to discuss me I sincerely believe it is not going to produce a plesant enviorment. You are a veteran wiki editor. I hope to see a veteran editor on the oposing corner. --Cool Cat 17:12, 11 July 2005 (UTC)