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Template:WikiProject Columbia University

Criticism of GS

Someone should write something about the controversies surrounding GS. Many have called it "Columbia's back door," and there is a lot of resentment among Columbia College students that GS is an embarrassing dilution of the Columbia experience. At the very least, the disparity between admission rates, SAT scores, class rankings, etc. should be noted.

I personally am undecided about GS (I've known some interesting people in GS, such as a prima ballerina, as well as some total doofuses), but I think that in an encyclopedia article this should be addressed, since it's such a common criticism.

Aroundthewayboy 23:25, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

This isn't really an apt comparison. Typically, CC applicants are ineligible to apply to GS and vice-versa. The exception to this is JTS students and actor/ballerina types. While the admission rates are higher at GS than CC, they are not always higher than SEAS, and its entirely unclear that that "quality" of students is lower (supposedly GS has the highest average GPA). Considering that a huge number of GS students are transfers (with time off) from Columbia's peer institutions, its probably very unlikely that there is much disparity between SAT scores and such--at least for those who started college right out of high school. Coffeemilk 09:50, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I am a current GS student and I'd like to add to this apples/oranges debate. CC students can be compared to well-oiled machines. They have been jumping through the hoops for so many years now that they usually just hit the ground running. GS students are, by nature, more rusty. I agree that some GS students are not up to par but I have also met many CC students who like, can't, like, understand why they have to take Art Hum. I've had several professors (notable ones) tell me they always enjoy papers written by GS students because they project more depth and experience than what their younger CC students can produce. Conversely, I have noticed that CC students do much better in the quantitative and hard science courses because they have been sharpened to a much higher extent than students who have not had to maintain the type of thinking required to excel in such fields.

CC students are top notch and deserve the opportunities they have worked so hard to attain. They are also the product of a life process that requires things such as access to good schools, strong parenting, money, and a greater capacity/opportunity for early maturity. The pressure is intense beyond belief. No argument there. There is probably a good argument in stating that CC students have made more sacrifices than GS students in order to attain their seat in class, too. Who knows? To make a case for CC being superior to GS due simply to a difference in application standards is to make a case for Darwinism, though. Higher education exists in order to empower anyone who seeks it out. To limit its opportunities to those who "survived the best" early in life condemns higher education to the same elitist myopia so often displayed in the worlds of business and politics. Higher education should be an exception to the institution of Darwinism and programs such as GS represent prime examples of such logic.

Other

Major school of columbia university, page needs expansion. --] 05:35, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Harvard Extension

I reverted the entry on Havard Extension because the school is different in nature to the Yale, Brown, and Columbia programs. The two main differences being (1) Admission to Harvard Extension is open enrollment, and admission to a degree program within H.E. is granted as a matter of course. This is not the case for the other three. (2) Harvard sets aside a separate faculty for extension courses. At Columbia GS, CC, and GSAS share a single faculty. Brown REUs are part of Brown College, and the same goes for Yale special students. Coffeemilk 01:50, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

the harvard extension school has open enrollment for people who want to just take a class or two but has a nominal admissions process including foundation courses for people who want to be what they call a degree candidate and recieve a bachelors or a masters. most of the extension faculty are full time harvard college profs who teach at the extension school as well as the college or the graduate school. most of the extension school classes are run from the same syllabi as the college or the graduate school. its close but not exactly the same as GS.

Penn also has a College of General Studies like columbia. students study during the day with the reg students.

>Penn does have a College of General Studies, but the students are not integrated into the curriculum the same way that GS students are at Columbia. Penn GS students have a separate faculty, and require special permission to take classes during the day within the traditional undergraduate college.

It should be noted that while the Extension School's open enrollment classes are what constitute its bread and butter, degree candidates who go through their admissions process are counted as Harvard University students as well as Harvard Extension students.Extension just becomes their affiliation i.e. 'College' or GSAS. People taking open enrollment classes do not have that privilage. The only difference between Harvard and Columbia GS is that a prospective student has to meet a certain GPA requirement by taking HARVARD classes. This process alone is rigorous and costly. Secondly, I emailed the Extension School regarding thier Bachelors program and they indicated to me that there is "no such thing as an Extension School degree and that all courses taken through the Extension School by degree candidates count toward a Harvard University degree". The professors are the same as Harvard College or GSAS professors, the school operates under the FAS umbrella, it has its own crest, and many courses are exactly the same as the College Courses. They also told me that if a student maintains a 3.33 GPA after two semesters (or after 32 credits), he or she can take a maximum of 2 Harvard College or GSAS courses during the day a semester. I am not trying to over promote the Extension School but I am trying to say that while Columbia GS and Harvard's ES operate in different ways, they still share the same mission. MORE so than Brown or Yale which fully integrate their students into the DAY program. And besides Columbia GS students aren't fully integrated as this article would make one think. GS students cannot even use the CC career services, they have to use their own. Atleast the Extension School allows a student to use the Harvard College Career Services and the Harvard University Alumni Association.

recent updates

The page was recently updated, and the two major changes are:

• A new picture of the School’s logo.
• a Notable Alumni and Attendees section.

I think that the picture that was added is outdated. If anything, we should add the current seal, not the sketch that was the basis for the current seal.

Also, I object to the addition of Notable Alumni and Attendees. This is going to make the article unecissaraly long (as future editors add who they consider to be famous). In additiona, we will also have editing wars over who is and who is not important enough to be included. Instead, I recommend manking this list into a category, so that the information is acceable, but not part of the main article. Before I make these changes, I wanted to see if there are objections or better suggerstions.

Best. Matan 14:42, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I think we should keep Notable Alumni/Attendees. It should be cleaned up a bit. I'm not clear why the author of 1 novel need be included. I would remove:

Irma B. Jaffe Philippe I. Reines Max Aguilera-Hellweg Joe Connelly

Any objections? I think with these removals and you've got people of note and the top of their field. I'm ambivalent regarding Mac Borg.

-ws Wwsnyc 20:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Recent updates

I am unable to find any recent logos freely available online, except for the logo that is the GS Student Council's. You can take off the one I added if you wish. With regards to Notable Alumni and Attendees, I am simply going with the wikipedia convention of adding an alumni section to any article about specific colleges. It is on the Misplaced Pages entries for Columbia University's undegraduate schools, Columbia College, SEAS and Barnard.

Adc

I changed the shield image. As for the Notable Alumni and Attendees, since no one else seems to mind, lets keep it for now. If it gets too much, we can re-open the issue. Best, Matan 04:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Current Students

I wonder about the advisability of listing current students. If these students were listed without their knowledge, it's creepy (even if the information does come from items published on the GS or Columbia websites or in school newspapers such as the Spectator or the Record). If they listed themselves, it's a little sad. In either case, I wonder what the encyclopedic value of this section is. 160.39.247.200 19:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Im the one who added the section. Looking at it now it doesnt seem to be beneficial. Any thoughts before I go ahead and delete it? 06:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I would remove the current students section. The alumni section can also use some trimming... Matan 15:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

links to "cu-wiki"

To the anonymous user who is adding links to the “cu wiki,” please read this section to understand why I removed it: Misplaced Pages:External links#Links normally to be avoided

Best, Matan 20:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Dear user 207.237.223.150. Usually, I would agree with you and ask to remove the "GS Lounge" link from this article. However, the GSSC made the "GS Lounge" into its official website (at least for the 2006-7 year). Feel free to visit www.columbia.edu/cu/gssc/, which redirects to the "GS Lounge." When www.columbia.edu/about_columbia/index.html will redirect to WikiCU, I will be the first person to include WikiCU in this article. Until then, good luck with your exams & papers, and have a nice day. Matan 01:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Whatever. GS Lounge is not registered to the university. Your criteria is arbitrary. 207.237.223.150 03:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, you make a good point. So I am removing the direct link to the GS Lounge, and keeping only the link to the GSSC website (hosted on the CU server), which currently redirects to the GS Lounge page. I am also removing the link to WikiCU. Please try to comply with this policy. Thank you, Matan 14:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The GS handbook?

It seems like a user pasted a lot of information from the GS handbook about requirements, policies, etc. This is problematic for two reasons: 1) It is plagiarism. 2) It is not encyclopedia-style info. We have a link to the GS homepage, and people can find out if they can fulfill the language requirement with an SAT II score by going to the source. I am planning on removing all this new information within the next two days, unless someone can show me that this 1) does not violate the school's copyright info, and 2) should be part of Misplaced Pages. Best, Matan 18:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I removed the plagiarized info that was copied from GS’s Viewbook. We can’t have plagiarism on Misplaced Pages, see Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems. In addition, if someone wants to read about which classes fulfill the literature requirement, or about the need to consulate with a GS advisor before declaring a major, she or he can read the most updated info on the GS website. This should not be part of an encyclopedia. Matan 01:50, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Columbia Students for International Service

I am unfamiliar with this group, and I doubt that it is a "GS Group." Before removing it, I wanted to know if anyone can point to it qualifying as a "GS Group" and that it indeed exists. Matan 01:11, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, no response, so I will remove it. Matan 23:13, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Edward Klein

Although Edward Klein did attend Colgate, he graduated from the School of General Studies. See his New York Times wedding announcement (10/25/87, "Dolores Barrett Wed to Edward Klein"). http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3DA1338F936A15753C1A961948260 128.59.207.9 19:55, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Why is the GS compared to Yale and Brown?

Ok this article is a little bias. Columbia GS is nothing at all like Yale's Eli Whitney Program or Brown's Resumed Undergraduate Edcuation Program. Both of those programs are reserved for non-traditional students over 21 (Brown has it at over 25) with exceptional work or life experience that are returning to school. Those programs only allow about 5-10 people a year, they're not really non-traditional programs lile Columbia GS. At any rate, the comparison is flimsy because Yale and Brown's program fully integrate their students into the DAY program. Columbia GS's real counterparts, it's "peer" schools, are Penn College of General Studies, Harvard's Extension School, and Washington University's University College. There is also Georgetown's School of Liberal Studies that rightly mirror both Columbia and Harvard's program. This is in no way shape or form dismissing Columbia GS, in fact getting into any of these non-traditional programs at an ivy league caliber school is tough and costly. But it is disheartening to see that this article is trying to make Columbia GS look like its shares a different mission than that of Penn or Harvard.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)