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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Hyacinth (talk | contribs) at 01:42, 27 July 2005 (→Butler: citation). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I am trying to expand this article and introduce the situation of the homosexuality in U.S. army. Anyone knows this can help? a gay soldier is much more welcome! :) --Yacht (talk) 17:12, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)

to make this more encyclopaedic

• There should be a page entitled Armed forces policies on sexual orientation.
• That page should link to this one, and absorb some of its content, in particular the section on

other countries.

• The section on other countries is currently a stub, and shoul be moved to the new article. What about non-Western countries?
• The new article will link to similar articles on general polices

I am not the right person to make the above changes, as I cannot provide the necessary content. mike40033 05:09, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Leave it to the person who has more information to actually create that page. Increasing overall complexity of Misplaced Pages does not help users find content that is useful. Unless and until a user has information on the policies of the armed forces of other nations towards homosexuality and creates the proposed pages you've listed, this page should remain in place with its content intact. Don't go moving content around to just create many more stubs from one article which is reasonably encyclopedic. --ABQCat 23:12, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Updated information

I've been browsing through the SLDN site trying to find newer data than from 2000 for the table we've got. They have a bar-chart with totals for each year which I've introduced into the table, but the service branch breakdown is not included with the chart. If anyone can find the breakdown, please add it to the table. Also, discharges have been decreasing slowly since 2000 (787 in 2003 vs. nearly 1300 in 2000). I'm wondering if there's a been a policy-shift in the way discharges are carried out, if the emphasis on DADT has decreased, or if there's something else going on. I just don't know, and would value some input from someone who does. --ABQCat 23:15, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Removed

• "The policy is widely seen as a failure and opposed by pro and anti-gay advocates."

Why was the above removed? As far as I know it is accurate. Though it is not cited neither are any contradicty assertions, and neither are there contradictory assertions. Hyacinth 02:44, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Readded. Hyacinth 23:29, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Don't ask?

The quote seems to describe the don't tell portion but I don't see a quote that forbids people from asking. Does the rule apply to stating ones heterosexuality? --Gbleem 14:21, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Discharges Decrease

.....in wartime. So the statement that "....the discharges of homosexual service members actually seems to be increasing at a time when personnel shortages are severe enough that the active duty tours of many enlisted service members are being involuntarily extended" seems innacurate - the Washington Post article detailing this as a recent phenomenon also cites evidence of this occuring as far back as World War II, so this should be edited. See Fewer Gays Being Discharged Since September 11

This is also supported by the general trend: during wars, when we need soldiers, gay one's are fine. It's only when homeland security is not an issue that the US has time for anti-gay discrimination. Hyacinth 23:30, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"General"

Is the "General" section really important? Or even true? Don't Ask, Don't Tell has never, in my experience, been used outside the military, and is certainly not in common parlance.

Last edit

The last edit (by Rocketfairy) is a little perplexing, and includes at least one statement that seems like thinly vieled editorializing: In this view, such an exclusion is indefensible on ethical and legal or Constitutional grounds, as individuals have a right to privacy and to express love for whomever they choose; "unit cohesion" arguments thus priviledge those intent on denying rights over those whose rights would be violated. The last part, in particular, steps outside the bounds of presenting an argument. --DNicholls 03:49, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Failure

• "The law is widely seen as a failure and opposed by pro and anti-gay advocates."

How is this POV? It does not assert that the law is a failure, but that people of various POVs say so. Hyacinth 01:39, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Butler

I'm not sure why it would be "unnecessary" to point out that the ban conflates speech and conduct. Hyacinth 01:41, 27 July 2005 (UTC) Also, if one is going to remove content with a citation from an article one should also remove the source at the bottom of the page. Hyacinth 01:42, 27 July 2005 (UTC)