Talk:Saint Patrick's Day - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jonathanpops (talk | contribs) at 10:40, 17 March 2008 (→River Dyed Green). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 10:40, 17 March 2008 by Jonathanpops (talk | contribs) (→River Dyed Green)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Holidays High‑importance

	Holidays portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Holidays, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of holidays on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HolidaysWikipedia:WikiProject HolidaysTemplate:WikiProject HolidaysHolidays
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Ireland High‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Saints

	Saints portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Saints, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Saints and other individuals commemorated in Christian liturgical calendars on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SaintsWikipedia:WikiProject SaintsTemplate:WikiProject SaintsSaints
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Chicago Mid‑importance

	Chicago portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Chicago, which aims to improve all articles or pages related to Chicago or the Chicago metropolitan area.ChicagoWikipedia:WikiProject ChicagoTemplate:WikiProject ChicagoChicago
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Saint Patrick's Day article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3

More Info on Origins

The article is pointing to the wrong website for the NYC St Patrick's Day Parade. The actual URL for the official site is: http://www.st-patricks-day.com/st_patricks_day_parades_united_states_new_york.asp. MollyA102

I read or heard somewhere, that origin of the parades in the U.S. started with the British during the Revolutionary War, in order to get more men enlisted to their side. They were also the ones who introduced the non-Irish, but rather Scottish Bagpipes into the parade. I don't have any citations or references for this tidbit. But if this is true, it should clearly be included here. Since bagpipes seem to be a staple in the U.S. parades, also parties.

Interesting! I've always wondered about the bagpipe thing, since they are generally identified more with Scotland than with Ireland. I don't know if it's true either (in all honesty, it has a slight urban legend vibe), but it's certainly worth a mention if there's truth to it. MrBook 21:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd love to know how St. Patrick's Day went from a religious holiday to a day of drinking and partying, because it's an odd transition.-RomeW 23:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I hope you find time to read my entry on "paddywhackery" below!--PeadarMaguidhir 11:26, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

River Dyed Green

As a chemist, I'm dubious that the photo on the front page shows the river dyed green "with fluorescein." Fluorescein solutions are orange, and while the fluoresce green, they don't look like that. I think it's probably a vegetable dye.

Not to mention fluoresceine is carcinogenic, and you would need a dangerously high concentration to make the river as green as that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.86.138.193 (talk) 13:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

Since no proof has been presented of what the dye is/was, I deleted that part of the caption. Johntex\ 04:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I live in Chicago and have never seen the river so green. Year-round its a muddled dark green, but for St. Patrick's, there is no difference.

The photo is definitely doctored

There's a video of them coloring the river here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFXlPJ9hKrY - personally I think it's a bit odd that the first photo on a page about St Patrick is in Chicago though and not Ireland.

consumption of alcohol

Oh come on! Consumption of alcohol is not an offical way of celebrating St Patricks Day, I've lived in Dublin too long and seen the mess created there on St Patricks Day each year because of drunks, seriously it's a horrible sight and consumping of alcohol shouldn't be listed as a way to celebrate Paddy's Day. David PJ Webster 22:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

From what you say, a large number of people in Dublin, capital of Eire, for whom Patrick is the patron saint, celebrate the day of their patron saint through the consumption of alcohol! ;-)

I realise it may be disheartening if you prefer to focus on St Patrick himself and the religious/historical aspect, but it sounds like this is the way people celebrate it.

I live in England, and it's interesting that people "Celebrate" what is really an Irish event, but it really is just an excuse to get pi**ed. Few people here make the same effort over St George's Day (although it does seem to be making a comeback). However St George's Day is also celebrated by getting pi**ed and having a parade round here.

It is still not an offical way. Young children don't go out and get drunk on St Patrick's Day. People drink on Christmas regularly, but it is not the way in which it is celebrated. Many public holidays (in Ireland) are excuses to drink. To celebrate the actual Holiday wearing shamrocks, having green and going to the parade are the main activites. And for the religiously inclined, there is mass. Crakker (talk) 11:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Pinching

Can someone please adress the whole pinching thing. I really hate getting pinched on St. Patricks day when I forget to wear green and I'd liked to know how it started.--The_stuart 17:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC) I've been looking this up. There's several answers on Yahoo, at this link http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070316115124AAAmf6I Except I don't think they're right. I found a closed answer at "Answers.Yahoo" where it said it was originally an American game. People would wear a coat and you would pinch them if you thought they weren't wearing green underneath. If they were wearing green they could pinch you back 10 times. I asked my American freind, and she says this sounds familiar, that in America if you thought someone wasn't wearing green and you pinched them, they could pinch you back several times. There's also a answer.yahoo link here http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070316114713AAtVaOZ which is suggesting a political origin for this practice, starting from when the English occupied Ireland. Everything I've seen on the web suggests this is an American practice only, except here where on this British Council website it says that Irish children do this. http://www.britishcouncil.org/learnenglish-central-magazine-st-patrick.htm I don't feel confident enough to edit the main page, but the 'game' story seems plausible. Can anyone find a reputable link to use to change the page? 82.35.15.212 03:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Just to add to what I said, I found this link, http://www.celtsofamerica.org/March07/WeeOnesFun/weones.html where it says; "Another tradition associated with St. Patrick ’s Day, especially in America is wearing green to avoid being pinched. It is unclear as to the exact origins of this tradition, but legend has it that in early America, Irish Immigrants and those of Irish Decent wore green in honor of the Emerald Isle." Like all of these things, I bet it's impossible to (A) say it's ONLY and American tradition, as I'm sure SOME other's do it, and (B) determine EXACTLY where the tradition originated. I suspect the best that could be done is to say something like 'It is unclear where the exact origins ..." and then maybe give citations to any particular explanation that's been given (like the link saying it had political origins). Sorry I wasn't able to change the main page myself, but maybe this discussion will help someone else decide on the right change? 82.35.15.212 04:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I've never ever seen this tradition in ireland, in fact many consider wearing green to be unlucky. 83.70.162.189 (talk) 18:10, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Archival

I archived old talk on 23:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC). --Neutrality 23:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Needed Citations

Some of these "citation needed" marks could be removed, couldn't they? An example would be where it states what sort of festivities go on. That's sort of like "People give presents on Christmas. "

Last time I checked it was against Wiki policy to attack a page with "citation needed" as the vast majority of articles are undercited anyhow. That this page needs more citations is undoubtable......that it needs "citation needed" every two sentences is not. It currently looks ugly. Slizor 00:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

No, what's against Wiki policy is making unverifiable claims. If you think all the "citation needed" tags look ugly, the way to get rid of them is to verify the claims they make. Angr/talk 10:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It's ridiculous, though, to have so many. I agree with Slizor. I'm ashamed that this article, which so many people will surely read today, currently stands as a monument to one of Misplaced Pages's most lamentably bureaucratic tendencies. Does every sentence of every article either need a citation or a "citation needed" these days? Frankly, I think a wiser policy would be to note where citations are needed on an article's talk page instead. Attentiveness to sources need not preclude aesthetics.

Furthermore, there is a difference between claims which are unverifiable and claims which are unsourced. That's something to think about too. --BDD 16:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the number of citation flags is excessive. Also, a lot of information seems to be copy and pasted from here. I'm trying to figure out exactly what. This article really needs a lot of work. --F a ng Aili 17:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

"Disputed edits can be removed immediately and placed on the talk page for discussion, or where the edit is harmless but you dispute it and feel a citation is appropriate, you can place after the relevant passage. This should be used sparingly; Misplaced Pages has a lot of undercited articles, and inserting many instances of is unlikely to be beneficial." http://en.wikipedia.org/Citation_needed#When_there_is_a_factual_dispute Slizor 14:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I added citation tags because the second half of the "History" section contains many general statements including statements begining with words such as "Of course...". The writing is not encyclopedic. Misplaced Pages has a great opportunity to take a topic like this and truly write in an encylopedic style which informs people and the article falls short in this way. I looked at the article for the first time today. While there is a fair amount on interesting information about the article it needs much editing to make it encyclopedic. Mfields1 21:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Northern and Southern Ireland did not exist at the time of the Battle of the Somme. These only came into existence under the Government of Ireland Act 1920.

Yes, Ireland was one country back then, which was part of the United Kingdom.

As to the drinking for hats, please delete citation: In the UK St Patrick's Day is purely a marketing opportunity for Guinness, and one of the marketing gimicks is that if you drink a certain number of pints of Guinness (4 in my local) you get a big foam hat. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.86.138.193 (talk) 13:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

Happy St Patrick's Day

Happy St Patricks Day to all Wikipedians, especially to those who are Irish at heart.--File Éireann 01:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

And to you! I'm currently trying to enlighten my Swedish mates; most of them have never even heard of this day. --TheFinalFraek 09:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

(nearly) The entire English speaking world knows/celebrates Saint Patrick's day, how many people know of the Swedish national day (if you even have one) outside of Sweden itself? Billtheking 15:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Locking?

Should we have this page locked for the day? Seems it has been the victim of multiple acts of vandalism today. Cliph 15:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's necessary. It's nothing we can't keep on top of, and it's on the Main Page today, so protecting it should really be a last resort. Angr/talk 15:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Did someone go into this page and change all the references of the color green to purple? Am I just crazy or is someone pulling an early April Fool's joke? -Rand (Austin, Tx) 3/17/2006 9:26 am Central Standard Time

Looks like it has been fixed. -Rand

The first section seems to have been tampered with. Everywhere it should read green it says purple, even in the picture captions. - Milena (3/17/2006) 4:42pm Central European Time

Good Day to visit the Irish Museum?

I came to look at the Saint Patrick's Day page and all I saw was a flag of a hammer and sickle on a red backround and the mentioned items in gold. I scrolled down to find "Misplaced Pages is Communism" I do hope all the pranks stop so people needing the page can use it. -angelRinny (Saint Clair Shores, MI) 3/17/2006 4:44pm Eastern Standard Time

Flags

St Patrick is the patron saint of the whole island of Ireland. Should we include a flag to represent Nortern Ireland? Dbnull 15:33, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why the republic's flag is there in the first place - it has no intrinsic link to St Patrick's Day. I'm removing it. --Kwekubo 01:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I restored the flag. It is very relevant to the concept of being "Irish for a day", wearing the colors of the flag, the fact that people wave Irish flags at parades, the association with the country, etc. Johntex\ 01:26, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

For disambiguation purposes shall we at least start by changing the text underneath the tri-colour from 'The Irish Flag' to 'The Flag of the Republic of Ireland'? The current text is misleading and helps perpetuate a common misconception (especially in the USA) that the tri-colour represents the geographical island of Ireland. If flags are to be included then there should be flags that represent both geo-political regions of the island. Comments? Dbnull 02:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm changing the text under the flag. Dbnull 14:30, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Dbnull - I think it is a good change. Johntex\ 15:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Wearing Orange

Is it true that Protestants are supposed to wear oranges —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Keeperoftheseal (talk • contribs) 16:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

For some people, green is associated with catholocism, and orange is associated with protestantism. (see Orange Institution). For some people, the colors are a political statement about whether Northern Ireland should stay part of the UK or become part of the Irish Republic. Some people choose to wear both orange and white, such as the colors of the Irish flag. For most American's at least, green is associated with being Irish (even if only for a day) and attending the Saint Patrick's Day festivals, and whether or not you get pinched at school, etc... Johntex\ 00:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The local paper came today, with lots of pictures of the St Patrick's Day Parade and crowds in the fairly big town a few miles away. And yes, there was plenty of orange around, if only in conjunction with green and white, eg some revellers had green wigs, white faces and orange beards. Interestingly, the predominantly Protestant crowds supporting Northern Ireland at football have no problems at all wearing green. The only sad thing is that they boo anyone who plays for Celtic. Bill Tegner 18:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

It may be of interest to some to know that Dubliners of the old stock considered the color green as unlucky, and refused to have green objects in their homes--PeadarMaguidhir 07:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in Rhode Island (in the shadow of the Boston parade, as it were) and I was always told that, at least in Boston, wearing orange on St. Patty's Day would get you beat up. I also heard the Protestant vs Catholic thing mentioned above. I'm not sure how true it is, but I believe it enough to never wear orange on the 17th of March. 75.70.195.95 23:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC) Lauren, not a user. 4 March 2007

Odd, that. I mean the Irish flag is as orange as it is green. Mind you, I was once by chance in Belfast, Maine, on 12 July, and nothing happened. Quickest way to get beat up round here, any day, is to wear a Rangers shirt. But I'm sure that wouldn't mean much in Boston. Bill Tegner 22:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps something should be put in about the controversy surrounding St Patrick's Day in Northern Ireland? --84.13.43.250 13:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Changing our shade of green

The color green we have in our infobox, {#00DE00} certainly is green, but I don't think this color is what people would think of when they think of green and Saint Patrick's Day. I think they think of a color more like that of a shamrock, or like that of the green in the Irish Flag. I'm trying out a shade I think is better. Please let me know what you think. Johntex\ 00:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Infobox photo

do you think the infobox photo should be changed to something more appropriate? Like this one? Maybe someone could crop it so it shows his arms and head? 20 march 2006.

I don't think so. I think the new proposed image is better for Saint Patrick perhaps. The imsage we are already using is better for Saint Patrick's Day. Johntex\ 15:27, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

PICTURES!!!

Can someone add some pictures from the 2nd biggest parade, in Savannah! I live here, but don't know exactly how.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.155.48.210 (talk • contribs) 16:26, 2006 March 21 (UTC)

That would be great! On the left hand side of your window, below the search box, there is a link that says "Upload file" - if you click on that link, there are instructions about how to upload a photo, and how to place it in the image. If you run into any trouble, you can ask for help by posting to WP:HELP. Best, Johntex\ 01:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

There isn't one picture of Dublin parades in this article! Does anyone have pictures to upload?

Here are two pictures I took from Montreal's Parade (2006)
- Image:St.patricks.day.parade.montreal.jpg
- Image:St.patricks.day.parade.montreal2.jpg

Holy Week

If it falls in Holy Week, it is moved to the second Monday after Easter.

What?! I'm removing this sentence. If anyone wants to put it back in, can you please back this statement up? The earliest date under the Gregorian calender on which Easter Sunday can fall is March 22nd. This would put Paddy's Day on the Monday after Palm Sunday (which is a relatively unimportant day of Lent). I can't see why it would be moved. (Also, the last year this happened was 1818, the next will be 2225.) Dave 00:07, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Paddywhackery

As a native-born Irishman, a lot of the paddywhackery, especially American paddywhackery, associated with Saint Patrick's Day makes me want to puke. For one thing, no one in Ireland--except for certain entertainers, whose livelihood is gained by pandering to the expectations of green-clad Americans--would ever say "Saint Paddy's Day." It should be remembered that the first to celebrate St. Patrick's Day in America were Protestant "gentlemen," who dined at various good-quality inns; they wore the color blue, that color being then associated with the Feast.

The British government encouraged the celebration of Saint Patrick's Day as a "national day," because (at least, at the time) it had religious rather that political--i.e. rebel--connotations. Trooping the Colors at Dublin Castle was the annual contribution of the British authorities. It was essential to reinforce the ideology that even the "mere Irish" were happiest when serving their British overlords.

In New York, the parade was soon taken over by the Ancient Order of Hibernians, a right-wing, (some would say Fundamentalist), and certainly male chauvinist Catholic organization, who wanted to define for themselves what constituted "Irishness," an ethos very much removed from that of today's Irish population, as evidenced by the opposition to gays and lesbians. Seen from outside, their conception of "Irishness" is closer to that of the 19th century than to that of the Ireland of today.

But, in the United States, apart from the ridiculous practice of dressing up in green, the most odious aspect of St. Patrick's Day is the apparent license it gives to all to drink to excess. (The term "drowning the shamrock" comes from the tradition of the "Protestant gentlemen" putting their shamrock in the glass when the last toast was drunk.) When I was a child in Ireland, the day was celebrated primarily as a religious holiday, with obligatory attendance at Mass for Catholics. In those days, the public houses were shut on St. Patrick's Day. Even this year (2006), the off-licenses (liquor stores) were requested not to open until 4:00 pm, a request that was largely honored. The parade, during my childhood, was an industrial parade, intended to show Ireland's merits as a base for industry--another idea from Taoiseach (prime minister) Seán Lemass, intended to improve Ireland's miserable economy.

However, in the United States, those who would be Irish consider the day as a "National Let's-All Get-As-Drunk-As-We-Can Day." Greeting cards, including ecards on the Net, are laden with the stereotype of Irish drunks; no other ethnic group in the United States would condone this practice, which can often quickly lead to racial slur.--PeadarMaguidhir 11:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Well said, Peadar. I was talking to a friend yesterday who said that she'd be going to mass on St Patrick's Day morning and having a quiet afternoon. She'd had a year in Australia, and all the paddywhackery was a real turn off. I'll be going to Holy Communion at our local Church of Ireland church, enjoying a Guinness with my lunch, and then planting some first early potatoes. A real Irish tradition, far better than getting drunk. Bill Tegner 19:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Uuhm when you say "no other ethnic group in the United States would condone this practice" Does that include The Germans and their Octoberfest?????? Superdude99 14:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

There is absolutely no comparison as to size, as to penetration of American popular culture, or popular derogatory stereotype between Saint Patrick's Day and the Octoberfest. How many cities in the US have large parades, and how many families in the US send funny little cards, dress up in ridiculous clothes and claim to be German for the Octoberfest? Is there any equivalent of the stupid phrase (with no basis in the original language of the Irish, to wit Gaelic) for "TOP OF THE MORNING TO YOU"?--PeadarMaguidhir 13:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Source (for historical details): Cronin, Mike and Daryl Adair: The Wearing of the Green: A History of Saint Patrick's Day.London and New York:Routlage, 2002, 2006.--PeadarMaguidhir 09:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC) 09:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I enjoy "National Let's-All-Get-As-Drunk-As-We-Can Day." Slizor 16:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

And that is your right. I merely request that it no longer be associated with a derogatory stereotype of the Irish.--PeadarMaguidhir 13:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with PeadarMaguidhir, lets stop the stereotypes David PJ Webster 15:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

An interesting slant. I was talking to some tourists who'd seen the recent St Patrick's Day parade in Dublin recently, and were disappointed at how "un-Irish" it was: "full of things like bongo bands" Millbanks 22:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Bill and David for your support. I was, however, particularly interested in what Millbanks wrote. The disparity between the perception of "Irishness" (or Oirishness) by Americans of Irish ancestry and the everyday culture (using the word in its broadest sense) of the Irish who live on the island of Ireland could be the subject of a very interesting study.--PeadarMaguidhir 09:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I am an Irish teenager, and I do say "St. Paddy's Day", usually when I am being formal, i.e. talking to a teacher. "Paddy's Day" is used in the every day speech of the current Irish youths. And although you mightn't like it, there is a lot of drinking on St Patrick's day, re-enforcing the stereotype. In 2006 the off-licences were asked not to open because of the alcohol consumption, and the behaviour that can follow. I remember a lot of drunks being at the parades in Limerick, even very early in the morning. The fact is, there is a large binge drinking culture in Ireland. Just because it is a stereotypr does not mean it is entirely false.Crakker (talk) 12:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Point taken! But I sometimes wonder which is the more ridiculous: the Irish trying to be American, or the Americans trying to be Irish.--PeadarMaguidhir (talk) 18:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

St Patrick Day Traditions

since when is getting a "guinness hat" a tradition - its simply a marketing gimmick that has been going about 4 years - hardly qualifies as a tradition

As someone who lives in Northern Ireland, I would ask that the flag of St.Patrick and the flag of Northern Ireland be included here as he is the patron saint of the people of the whole island and not just the Republic. The flags issue is extremely divisive in Northern Ireland at least, and people of either Protestant, Unionist, Loyalist or non-republicans find the flag of the Republic of Ireland and other republican symbols unrepresentative of them. This in turn excludes certain people who want to be included in the day of their patron saint.

Saint Patrick brought Christianity to Ireland not Republicanism and if only the Republican and Nationalist symbols and flags are shown and flown then it is no longer about the people of Ireland, St.Patrick or Christianity but all about Republicanism. It should be a festival that brings people together who either live in Ireland, North or South or anyone who has Irish ancestry or roots around the world. Inclusion not exclusion.

I agree with much of what you say, not least your last sentence, but as a Protestant who lives in the South, I am very conscious that the Irish tricolour is as Orange as it is Green. Millbanks 22:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

More Americans celebrating it

Seems more Americans who claim to have some Irish in them yet know nothing about the culture or the capital of Ireland are celebrating this day and claiming to have pride. Hel-lo, St. Patrick's meant two long Masses and no parades. Parades in Ireland started when the American tourists came and asked where they were. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.224.55.237 (talk) 00:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC).

Stop talkin shite! Vintagekits 00:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Vintagekits, your rudeness is matched only by your ignorance. The above comments are quite correct. I can partly vouch from my own experience as a child in Ireland and would also draw your attention to the study, The Wearing of The Green, referenced above.--PeadarMaguidhir 09:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

What's happening now is that nearly all our political leaders are jetting out to all corners of the globe, leaving the Garda to contain the alcohol fuelled revelry. Nothing wrong with enjoying a few jars on this special day, but surely the main point is to celebrate the life of the man who brought Christianity here (even though he was a Brit!), and banished the snakes.Bill Tegner 09:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

History

What? No history of all of these traditions? Is there not a history to these tradtitions that's verifiable? McKay 06:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I did make an input on this, but it might have been a bit uncomfortable to someone, because it was "doctored". I've restored it as far as I can, but the person who changed my wording might be interested in this extract from the 16 March "Church of Ireland Gazette" - "The Saint Patrick's Day we know was invented in America: the first public celebration was in Boston in 1737, and the first Saint Patrick's Day Parade was held in New York on 17 March 1762 - by Irish soldiers in the British army. The first Saint Patrick's Day in Dublin was not staged until 1931". If anyone wants to challenge this, let me know, and I can give them Church of Ireland Gazette contact details. Bill Tegner 16:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

While agreeing with Bill, I must again draw your attention to the book, The Wearing of the Green, referenced above.--PeadarMaguidhir 09:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

A British Celebration

Is Saint Patricks Day just as much a British celebration as an Irish one? I believe so because: 1) Ireland is part of the British Isles 2) Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom 3) Saint Patrick came from England and settled in Northern Ireland, he was British or at least Irish/English within a British context 4) Saint Patricks Flag forms part of the United Kingdom flag 5) It is widely celebrated throughout the British Isles including the United Kingdom I'm sure there's other reasons as well. But I believe it is just as much a British celebration as an Irish one! YourPTR! 15:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

St Patrick was Romano British. No way was he "English". At the time of his birth, England and the English did not exist. Bill Tegner 09:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

"1) Ireland is part of the British Isles" That's a matter of perspective.

"3) Saint Patrick came from England and settled in Northern Ireland, he was British or at least Irish/English within a British context"

The British never invaded Wales. The English did. The English also invaded Britain. The British were the original people there. Really, you should know this, surely? Millbanks 22:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I suspect that that's a question of archaic geography rather than an implied political statement. For what it's worth, the North Sea used to be referred to as the German Ocean. Bill Tegner 08:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

It's actually celebrated anywhere with many Catholics or others who venerate Patrick on March 17. It's celebrated especially enthusiastically in Ireland, both the Republic and Northern Ireland, because he's the patron saint of Ireland (and yes, he was a Romano-Briton). Additionally, it's celebrated enthusiastically in the US and Canada, because of the large amount of Irish immigrants to those countries. If the holiday is celebrated in Great Britain, I'd imagine it has more to do with their historic connections with Ireland and the amount of Irish immigration there, than it does with Patrick having been from Britain.--Cúchullain /c 20:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Over here (England) the only reason it's 'celebrated' is as an excuse for everyone to get hammered.86.146.9.15 20:58, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Why not get hammered on St George's Day instead? You have your own saint, don't you?Bill Tegner 13:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Banishing snakes might seem a strange occupation for a saint (actually, the snakes never made it to Ireland at the end of the last Ice Age); however, Saint George's claim to fame--killing a dragon--strikes me as a peculiar road to sanctity.--PeadarMaguidhir 09:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do people get drunk at all on St.Patricks day?Its nothing to do with St.Patrick.

Is st. Patricks day offensive to any religon?

Well, the way it is now being celebrated is causing offence to many Christians in Ireland. Bill Tegner 08:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The way it is now celebrated is causing offense to many Christians and non-Christians of Irish descent in the US as well. I have lived here all my life and have not worn green or orange on St Patrick's Day since I turned 15, yet every year I must explain that it's a quiet personal protest and that some of us don't think costumes of Leprechauns wearing boxing gloves carrying kegs on their backs are funny. No one would dare do a similar thing on Chinese New Year (nor should they). My Mexican friends fear the growing popularity of Cinco de Mayo may turn it into an "Everyone-is-Mexican-today-so-let's-all-get-drunk-and-go-to-Taco-Bell" holiday. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.16.53.173 (talk) 03:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Saint Patrick has no more to do with getting drunk than Saint Valentine has to do with young lovers.PeadarMaguidhir 07:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

UK Celebrations

The Largest parade in the uk is actually in Birmingham and not Manchester.

In fact on researching this further I found the following article on http://www.bigdates.com/holidays/stpatricksday.asp which is appears almost identical apart from this wiki replaces Birmingham with Manchester. as follows

"The largest Saint Patrick's Day parade in the UK is held in Birmingham and consists of a two mile route through the city centre. The organisers of the parade describe it as the third biggest parade in the world after Dublin and New York. Other Saint Patricks Day parades take place around the country including in London where the largest minority community is Irish. The Lanarkshire town of Coatbridge where the majority of the towns population are of Irish descent also has a day of celebration and parades in the town centre."

Well over 100,000 people usually attend the event

194.66.249.18 10:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Real age, birth date, death date

Does anyone have a source for the real birth and death years of St. Patrick? He most assuredly did not live 120 years. The article currently states 373-493 for birth-death. The "New Advent" Catholic encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11554a.htm) states:

Apostle of Ireland, born at Kilpatrick, near Dumbarton, in Scotland, in the year 387; died at Saul, Downpatrick, Ireland, 17 March, 493.

There's an attached note that states:

Other sources say 460 or 461 —Ed.

I don't believe 387-493, either. People just didn't live to be 100 or more years old back then. James A. Stewart 05:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Most online sources seem to refer to 461 as the year of death. I'd prefer to find an academic source to cite before changing it. If anyone finds one I'd suggest changing both this and the Saint Patrick article, which also quotes 493 with only one dubious historical text as the source. James A. Stewart 05:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Birthplace

I changed the birthplace entry from Wales to Roman Britain for two reasons. First, it ties in with the main article on St. Patrick. Second, Wales did not exist when Patrick was born. Neither did England. They were both part of the Roman Britannia. In case anyone's unhappy, please note that in any event, the Irish (Gaelic) for Wales is "an Bhreatain". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bill Tegner (talk • contribs) 19:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

You cant say with certainty that he was born in Britain. There is also the possibility that he was born in Northern France/Normandy Billtheking 15:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I re-checked the main Misplaced Pages article, and yes, there it says "Roman Britain" which I thought was generally accepted. I'll take advice from our Church of Ireland Rector tomorrow as to whether the word "probably" should be added. OK? Bill Tegner 17:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I've just seen a note above, and it says near Dumbarton, Scotland! I'm not sure if the Romans ever got much of a hold that far north, and in any event they'd have withdrawn from there by the time of Patrick's birth. But let me check with the Rector. Bill Tegner 17:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

He addressed the point in his sermon: "probably from Roman Britain". So I'll change that on the entry. He reiterated the point that St. Patrick was NOT English. The English, in so far as they existed at all at the time of St Patrick's birth, were in a small corner of north west Germany. Incidentally, at the risk of being a pedant, France was then Gaul, and Normandy certainly didn't exist. Bill Tegner 13:03, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually,the Angles and the Saxons came from a small corner of North West Germany.Its a bit simplistic to refer to them as English.There were other groups involved as well.

If it may help to throw some light on waters which are already adequately muddied, the word "Britain" derives from the Old English "Brettisc," a word with its roots in the Celtic language spoken by the people of "Britain" (Penguin Etymological Dictionary) and it originally referred to the Celtic people who inhabited what is now approximately England and Wales, prior to the arrival of Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Normans etc. Patrick's name points to the Roman "Patrician" and may indicate that he was, at least, of the Roman ruling classes.PeadarMaguidhir 07:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

May I introduce a little levity into the learned discussion above? In the Philadelphia Parade, the Italian-American community of "South Philly" participates with an elaborate float. A banner on the side reads, "The Noblest Roman of Them All;"PeadarMaguidhir 08:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Sold into slavery

"At the age of 16, he was sold into slavery by a group of Irish marauders that raided his village."

That sentence is in the history section. The group that captured him was actually a raiding party containing Niall of the Nine Hostages, who was the High King of Ireland at the time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.138.179.184 (talk) 13:55, 17 March 2007 (UTC). and he got all the rats out of irland

Artistic Celebrations section and Celebrations in the US

I'm not sure what the point of this one is. It doesn't seem very relevant, it's not well-titled, and it reads an entire menu for little reason whatsoever. Also, the part in Celebrations in the US about the Ancient order of the Hiberians and the two paragraphs about gay marchers seem really random and should either be edited down and streamlined. Considering the Hiberians section is unsourced, it seem that that should probably be omitted altogether. Wtstar 15:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The role of the Ancient Order of Hibernians is admirably documented in the book, The Wearing of The Green, references above. Presumably, records also exist of the court cases arising out of this controversy.--PeadarMaguidhir 19:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

SP userbox

Where can I get the userbox that says "This user wishes you a happy St. Patrick's Day"? ~ UBeR 19:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Copyrighted text

A previous comment noted that a number of lines appeared to be from another source. While I have not perused that possibility, I did stumble across a definite block that is almost entirely taken from one of the external links in the article. There are no citations, nor any reference to permission obtained.

E.g., under History, the text beginning with "Patrick was quite successful at winning converts..." is nearly verbatim from the second External Link: Saint Patrick History.

I am not an experienced user so am simply pointing this out for someone more familiar with the process to make the appropriate modifications, or to contact the author regarding his Permission to Reprint rules (which it clearly violates at this time).

Wickertu 01:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

It looks like this was removed on Apr 7 2007. I'm not sure if the person removing this text noticed your comment, but thanks for the catch anyway! Ischorr 04:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Where is the largest parade

At the time of me writing this, the main article says that the New York parade is the largest outside Ireland. I believe this is an assumption, I've always believed for years that the New York parade is the largest in the world, much bigger than the parade in Dublin (which in turn is the largest in Ireland). There's a link here that seems to confirm that fact. http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/holidays/st_patricks_day.htm "The New York celebration is the oldest and largest St. Patrick's Day Parade in the world. The parade dates back to 1762, and in 2003 more than 150,000 marchers ...". However this other link also talks about the 2003 being the largest. http://www.saintpatricksdayparade.com/NYC/newyorkcity.htm I was wondering if perhaps the New York parade had only being the largest in the year of 2003. I couldn't find any other references to the sizes of parades in Ireland. For example Boston is also a huge parade, I think, maybe bigger than anything in Ireland. So I didn't want to just change the main page. There must be somewhere the sizes of parades are listed. As St. Patrick's day has just passed, maybe the numbers in the Boston, New York and Dublin parades will be listed soon, and then this could be put in the main page? 82.35.15.212 03:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

St Patrick's Day 2007

This must go down as a Great Day for the Irish. OK, beating Italy at rugby might have been expected. But beating Pakistan at cricket in the World Cup in Jamaica! A great day indeed! Bill Tegner 09:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, a sad postscript. The coach of the Pakistan team, Englishman Bob Woomer, died of a heart attack shortly after the match. As today's Irish Times says, "Cricket joy short-lived". Bill Tegner 15:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Holyoke Parade

It is still believed that the Holyoke St. Patrick's Day parade still claims the title for the 2nd largest parade in the US behind NYC. Why was this over looked? It is a widely known fact in the North East. Is this because they do not usually hold the parade on March 17th? It is often the following Sunday. Many people were curious to find that Holyoke was not even mentioned in the Wiki article at all. Here is the link to their parade site with the claim:

The city even created it's own tartan for the event, which is pretty neat! Check it out :)

St Patrick does "not come from England". . . . ST PATRICK WAS BORN IN WALES! --MidnightGalaxy 22:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

See above. His birthplace is disputed, and in any event neither England nor Wales existed at the time of his birth, though Britain did. Millbanks 22:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Tacky American sham

St Patricks day is just a tacky cheap mockery of the Saints day. He must be rolling in his grave and it saddens me as an Irishman to see Irish culture boiled down to a piss-up in a bar with everyone dressed in plastic lime green hats. Fé láthair is gráin liom Lá Fhéile Pádraig agus an cac suarach, táir ar fad a bhfuil baint aige leis. Translated from Irish the day has become tacky cheap and is a mockery (of my culture). Celtic Harper 10:32, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Celtic Harp, I agree with you entirely Millbanks 20:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Agus aontaím go h-iomlán leat, a chláirsigh. (And I agree with you completely, Harp.)PeadarMaguidhir 04:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Irish culture? What? It is a Christian tradition. And I dont think Ireland is as religious as it once was. Should non-christians go to mass for the day? At least the p**s up allows people of all backrounds a way of celebrating all day long. In fact, I dont even want to celebrate the life of the person who converted people to any organized belief system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crakker (talk • contribs) 12:15, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not religious and even I think its terrible. All the old traditions are lost in a sea of tacky american merch. 83.70.162.189 (talk) 18:25, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

83.70.162.189 and PeadarMaguidhir. There is a great reluctance among some to criticise it in any way for fear that they are belittling or rejecting 'Irishness' but there is nothing Irish about it! We have a great heritage and history which we should take great pride in displaying to the world on our national day but instead what do the ignorant imbeciles think best represents our culture? - green clothes, Americans dressed as leprechauns, drink, people wearing badges in America with slogans like "f@+k me I'm Irish!", plastic shillelaghs, and in Dublin their inspiration seems to be more South American carnival than anything to do with Ireland. One thing I've grown to loath are Irish dancers who are about as traditional as a 'Made in China'. 100 years ago and even when I was a lad the costumes were tasteful, girls had their hair curled by a family member. Today though and because of the Irish Americans, we have girls wearing wigs that look like a pack of dried super noodles stuck to their head, and the costumes that are so short and covered in sequins and fake orange tan on their legs. What type of image is that to give to the world, to some this is the sole impression people have of the Irish? It's because I care for and take pride in my country and culture that I have these views and I'm sure it's the same for others who think similarly. Celtic Harper (talk) 10:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

????

grenne yur —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.69.243 (talk) 19:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Date for 2008 celebrations inconsistent across nations and societies

A brief Googlesearch for the date of St. Patrick's day celebrations for 2008 reveals that only the roman catholic church has shifted it to March 15th, while there are parades in Montserrat on March 17th and in Japan on March 16th. It would be helpful to expand the Date secion in the inlet on the right-hand side in order to reflect the few exceptions and claify the situation. cheers, docpi (talk) 13:01, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It was actually moved to the 14th, not the 15th. Saint Joseph's is a solemnity worldwide. Saint Patrick's is a solemnity in Ireland and Australia amongst others, but his rank is certainly not the same. With Saint Joseph's transferred to the 15th, Saint Patrick's Day is moved back again to the 14th. It was celebrated in Australia yesterday. 60.240.143.154 (talk) 12:21, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Removed

I removed 3 countries where Saint Patricks day is supposedly celebrated because: A EVERYTHING in it was uncited B The Singapore section actually centered around linkspam C The Uruguay one is pathetic, it looks like it was written by a child. D The same goes up for the Argentina section. E NOWHERE does it state HOW many people supposedly celebrate S P day in those countries

Regards Hereitisthen (talk) 11:55, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I put back Argentina´s section, quoting some sources. I barely changed the original, I don´t think it was written by a child. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pmgram (talk • contribs) 19:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

'Roman festival of the Bacchanalia'

Is this really relevant/likely considering that the Romans never invaded Ireland and the alchoholic nature of the festival surely has more to do with the nature of 19th C Irish society? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.36.187 (talk) 05:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Is this really relevant? Agreed, the Romans didn't ever invade Ireland; but that has nothing to do with the fact that the Irish raided the West Coast of Britain (including other places) for slaves and such available evidence as we have suggests that Patrick (see above) was a Romano-Briton.

Indeed, this piece borders on a racial slur!--PeadarMaguidhir (talk) 13:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Photo

Any chance we could get a decent photo from Ireland to go in the infobox? It seems somehow wrong to have a photo from the USA at the top of the article. Stifle (talk) 19:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

New York City Parade

In the section that talks about the NYC parade, the following statement is incorrect:

    It is the only New York City parade in which the marchers head uptown instead of downtown.

Ticker-tape parades, such as the one just held for the Superbowl Champion New York Giants (I love typing/saying that), also travel uptown.

Happy St. Patty's day to all!!

MRC - 2/27/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.132.217.181 (talk) 23:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

5 day festival?

"The St. Patrick's Day parade in Dublin, Ireland is part of a five-day festival;"

I've never heard or seen anything about this. St.Patricks day is just one day here in Dublin. 83.70.162.189 (talk) 18:13, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

infinite semi-protection?

isn't that a bit extreme? Can't we put it at 2 weeks? Kingturtle (talk) 19:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Gay groups denied

Why is there nothing in this article about how Gay groups were/are not allowed to march in the NYC parade? Kingturtle (talk) 22:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Because it's not about the NYC Parade. --Escape Orbit 22:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

The word parade occurs in this article over 70 times. There should be mention of how some parades do not allow gay groups and about how some gay groups have created their own parades. Kingturtle (talk) 22:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

So add it to Gay Pride Parade (New York City) or List of gay pride events or even create New York St. Patrick's Day Parade. This article is about Saint Patrick's day, not about controversies that some individual parades may have generated. --Escape Orbit 23:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Because this is written mainly by American people who think they're Irish - a multitude of sins are overlooked by them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.102.40 (talk) 12:48, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

What day 2008?

So is it the 14th or the 15th this year? howcheng {chat} 06:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I put it to the 15th, based on an article in the Irish Independent. I figure out of all news sources, an Irish news source is the most reliable in this case. howcheng {chat} 07:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Catholic News Service reports St. Joseph's observance is 15 March 2008 and St. Patrick's Day is the 14 March 2008. I'm unable to change your source. Irish Independent source is not as scholarly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patjee (talk • contribs) 15:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

CNS doesn't exactly say that. It says that the U.S. bishops' liturgy secretariat announced that St. Patrick's Day may be moved to Friday, March 14 (emphasis mine), and that Bishop J. Kevin Boland of Savannah, GA stated his diocese would be celebrating it on the 14th. It says nothing about other dioceses, especially in Ireland. howcheng {chat} 16:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Liturgically, March 15, 2008 in the United States we observe St. Joseph, Husband Of Mary. . I went to Mass this morning (March 15, 2008) in the U.S. and the solemnity of St. Joseph was observed - not St. Patrick's Feast. Is personal witness 'scholarly' enough? Also, note this news source states the change of the St. Patrick Feast Day observance to be a decision made by Irish Catholics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.21.158.215 (talk) 21:08, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

As convincing as it may appear to you, "personal witness" is still original research ;-) TINY MARK 16:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Categories: