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Etymology

The dictionary says falafel means "little peppers" and that it's actually derived from latin "piper" meaning pepper.

  • In Arabic, that would be filfil (فلفل) rather than falafel (فلافل); there is one more letter in the word falafel. --Khalid 22:24, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
I've seen this etymology, however, in several dictionaries, such as the American Heritage Dictionary: "Arabic falāfil, pl. of filfil, pepper, probably from Sanskrit pippalī." I'm going to go ahead and add it. Unfortunately, I know neither Arabic nor Tamil. Lesgles 15:34, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)
What I've seen is falafel <(Eng) felafel < fulaful*, the plural of ful. This always made sense to me, since falafel was traditionally made from fava beans. --Mgreenbe 17:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
No, falafel is the plural of filfil, I don't know if ful has a plural but if it did it couldn't be falafel. Falafel is almost always in my experience made with chickpeas, which are called "hummus" in Arabic. By the way, falafel as street food is surely almost always a sandwich (in pita bread or otherwise?) I think there is a little redundancy in the current way this is phrased. Palmiro | Talk 21:42, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation! Redundancy fixed, good point. --Mgreenbe 09:05, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Image

The image here is probably woo non-free, so it should be recreated. If someone can cook up a batch and take a picture that would be great (I can't find any in my local shops) — Zeimusu | Talk 03:31, 2005 Feb 13 (UTC)

In this case I'll remove the link. When we will have a new picture we can add it again Matteo 14:01, 2005 Mar 9 (UTC)

Israeli and Arab falafel

This was bound to happen. I deleted 207.255.174.254's controversy section because it was poorly composed and (I may be POV here) inaccurate. I'm currently living in Israel and have never seen "Israeli falafel". There is, in fact a distinction between Israeli and Arab falafel -- I find the latter to be bigger and more richly spiced, often to the point of a piquant sourness. This might be something nice to mention.

No one in Israel is trying to say that Israelis/Jews invented falafel. In fact, my experience has shown that falafel (and pita, by the by) is seen as a uniting force, which brings many Israelis into the Arab communities and vice versa. I've yet to encounter 'dismay' on either side that the other eats falafel. I would be interested to see a source on the "dismay" and "theft" mentioned. --Mgreenbe 11:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

This is the person whose edits you have deleted. You claim that I appear biased in my edits. It seems amusing to me that you don't feel the same way about yourself, being a Jew. I'm not predjudiced agaisnt you or your people, but I am also not afraid to tell the truth. Many stores claim many Arabic foods as "Israeli". Imagine if someone marketed Haunukah as a Christian holiday. Don't tell me it wouldn't bother you. Calling Hummus and Falafel Israeli cusine is biased to begin with.

Well, perhaps you should give a source for this. Misplaced Pages policy is that you should cite sources for your edits. While this is often ignored, it really is necessary if your edit is controversial. I've certainly heard Arabs complaining the odd time about falafel being described as Israeli food, but is this really a major controversy? After all, many Israelis are of Arab origin, being immigrants from Iraq, Egypt etc as well as native Palestinian Jews, and it's hardly surprising that they should keep their native cuisine. Palmiro | Talk 22:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Then why call it by a different name? Why give credit where it isnt due? and why, WHY is there an Israeli cusine section on wikipedia with a bunch of Palestinian foods, and why is there not a Palestinian cuisine section?

I would like to see a source that Israelis call falafel by a different name. The modern Hebrew word comes from Arabic!
Who's "giving credit"? The Israeli cuisine category includes all food popular enough in Israel to be considered a national food. It does not mean that Israel invented the food. According to the article, falafel may have originated in India -- should it not be listed as Middle Eastern cuisine?
There isn't a Palestinian cuisine category on Misplaced Pages because no one has written it. Why don't you? I wouldn't be able to write too much about it, as my experience with Palestinian food is just with falafel (delicious) and the beer Taybeh (better than Goldstar!). Since many Palestinian foods with existing articles have entries in Misplaced Pages -- say, falafel :) -- the category could be quickly populated. If you create the category, I'll do research for a write-up on Taybeh. In fact, if I have free time later, I'll create the category and populate it as best I can. --Mgreenbe 11:31, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Actually, there is a Category:Palestinian cuisine, though it's not adequately populated! Please look harder before launching these accusations. Other Palestinian foods with articles: Mujaddara, arak (liqueur), shawarma, baklava, knafeh. Palmiro | Talk 18:19, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
I didn't even think to check! Added what wasn't already in there. I'd never heard of knafeh; gotta go to Nablus! --Mgreenbe 23:47, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Nablus is largeley a destroyed battered city with dilapidated houses and broken spirits. One time they pioneered the delicious kinafa, now their lives are ruined after their land was stolen and their sons were killed. The joyful spirit of Palestinians is dead absorbed into the mist. Their hope is dead they don't want to make kinafa

Common guys, Falafel is no more "Israeli" food than Borscht is, both with obvious origins, in now Israel been such a community of immigrants it would be plain silly to claim 'inventing' such food. I think a more interesting fact, is the 'fussion' kitchen in Israel, notably about Falafel, the fact that one can buy Falafel with beetroot is probably such an example. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.84.24.136 (talk • contribs) 15:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

No one claimed Israel invented falafel. It is "regarded there as a national food". It's true, it is regarded here as a national food; I had it for lunch and felt very patriotic. There are even postcards, "Falafel, the Israeli national food". I think the beetroot may be a Persian-Jewish innovation; I think they're also responsible for the beet-pickled eggplants, which are, might I add, incredibly delicious. Care to find out and post cited prose? --Mgreenbe 14:09, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Another Israeli innovation with their falafel that you don't traditionally find with Arab falafel is sauerkraut...maybe Yekkes, German Jewish immigrants to Israel started adding it? It's just food people, don't politicize it. And Israelis proclaiming it as a national dish doesn't mean that they are stealing it from Arabs. It just means it's the most popular street food in Israel. Turks and Greeks also eat falafel by the way, nobody accuses them of stealing it from the Arabs/Palestinians. Texan gringos are also into tacos and burritos, but made their own version of it...they haven't stolen Latino culture. And don't forget that more than half of the Israeli Jewish population are Jews from Arab countries, they also grew up with falafel...so stop with the BS about Israelis "stealing falafel from the Palestinians". It's a regional food of the Middel East and Meditteranean basin, and guess what...Israel is in that region (and there to stay) and most of its people have roots in that region!


In Italy pasta is a national food, it came from China. In Ireland potatoes are a national food, that came from South America (in some Jewish households potatoes are almost a national food. Blintzes are a typical Jewish food, but they came from Russia. --Brat32 21:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Indian falafel

I was surprised by that the first time I saw it. That was one long-lived piece of vandalism, if so - a bit scary! Palmiro | Talk 02:31, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Lebanese?

thats good that someone mentioned that the falafel brigns together the arabs and the jews.

but no one where does it mention anyhting about Lebanon. Lebanon is the ultimate falafel hub. falafel is typically known as lebanese food. we need some lebanese stuff on it.

yes israel has falafel but we need some arab country information on falafil —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.218.41.202 (talk • contribs) 10:13, 21 January 2006 UTC.

Be bold — while maintaining NPOV, of course. --Mgreenbe 11:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Best falafel in NYC, Bread from Beiruit on 45th St. If I also mentioned that Ess-a-Bagel has the best bagels, would that make it more POV?--129.252.176.46 21:23, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Yep; but I'll check it out next time I'm in the City. There's also Azori (sp.) on the Upper West Side; the Jewish "falafel nazi". Supposed to be good, but don't take my word for it. --Mgreenbe 00:50, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
In NSW Australia the best falafel in Sydney is at Fatima's Lebanese Restaurant, Cleveland St, Surry Hills. While up the coast the best in NSW is Yami Falafel, Park St, Brunswick Heads which is an Israeli vegitarian resturant. Good food is one of the scarce foundations upon which to build peace. Don't let food become another battle ground—Dananimal 03:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

French fried potatoes, known as chips?

They're certainly not known by that name in Lebanon. Anywhere else? Palmiro | Talk 14:50, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Israel. Or, retrograde "chipsim". (Almost as hilarious as schnitzelim.) I think the sentence originally mentioned only Israel; when Lebanon and UAE were added, the user must not have noticed the clause. But regardless, in most of the world french fries are known as chips. I'll take it out. Out of curiousity, what are they called in Lebanon? --Mgreenbe 15:13, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Batata! or batata maqliyye, if necessary. I think most Lebanese would just call them potatoes in English, though I don't really know. It's very unusual to find potatoes cooked any other way in Syrian or Lebanese restaurants unless they are part of a stew or made dish.
Are you sure people put za3tar on falafel? OK, it's not at the peanut butter-in-hummus level, but I've never heard of it, whereas sumac is always added here in Syria at least. And it's the wrong colour! Palmiro | Talk 15:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Batata? That's Hebrew for sweet potato. Makes some sense: the German/French "apple of the ground" (tapuach adama) took hold for potato, but Ben Yehuda would have stuck with the Arabic.
I've seen it on shawarma, but never falafel; I was only correcting the extant link to sumac. --Mgreenbe 15:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
It looks to me like you changed the reference to sumac into one to za3tar. Did you mean to? As for schnitzelim, I seem to recall you remarking once that you didn't think it would be found in Levantine cuisine. And probably not as such, but we do have iskalúb bané in most restaurants - can you work it out? Palmiro | Talk 15:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah. I've never seen sumac used on its own in the Middle East and assumed the usage was a mistranslation (a very common one here in Israel). If you've seen sumac on falafel but not za`atar, we should just change it back. As for iskalup bané, the best I can get out of it is some sort of "scalloped" piece of meat. (I mention schnitzelim because it's a Hebrew plural on a german word; my German friends find it beyond ridiculous.) --Mgreenbe 16:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Anon user is right, in Lebanese use "batata" or "batata maqlyeh", even in menus they may use "french fries" but rarely "chips", because it refers to potato chips. CG 16:03, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I think that's the first paragraph of Palmiro's post. --Mgreenbe 16:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


QUESTION ABOUT ETYMOLOGY: Is it common to have a quadrilitiral root in Arabic made up of a doubling of a two letter root? Of course, there is FLFL and ZLZL, but are there many others? It seems to me that in Arabic this is rare whereas in Hebrew it is more frequent. (David ; yishalom@sbcglobal.net)

Bedouin origin

My uncle works for the US Department of Agriculture and is quite familiar with the history of most foods including falafel. He says it's originally Egyptian. Some guy was wondering how they deep fried back then. To this day and age, some people in the middle east deep fry in large pots without electricity the same way that they wash their clothes. (unsigned post)

Yes, falafel is usually considered Egyptian (though that is hard to prove). And of course there is deep-frying without electricity -- that's not the issue. The issue is that bedouins are nomads. Deep-frying is not a typical cooking technique for nomads. It is more likely that it is a city vendor's snack in origin. Anyway, if it's not {{dubious}}, it is at least {{fact}} because no source is given for this theory. --Macrakis 02:14, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, up until the late eighties, we still did deep frying in Lebanon the way I described it. Up to this day, there are still plenty of people in the villages who still do so. And considering bedouins to this day still cook this way, and most historians agree that the falafel is quite old, then the fact that it is deep-fried today using an electric stove has no bearing on how it was cooked a long time ago. It could have been deep-fried then the old way, or it could have been baked and evolved over time for efficiency. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.48.69.100 (talk) 03:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC).


Could you please re-read what I said? Electricity has nothing to do with it, and of course there are people in villages who deep-fry. Villagers are not nomads. But what evidence is there that falafel is of Egyptian bedouin origin? A source is needed. --Macrakis 13:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Falafel Link

To whom it may concern, I have read the article about falafel before and was interested in trying to make it. I never got it to taste right and wasted time and money on igredients trying. I wanted to help others who after reading your article also want to try falafel. So I decided to make a website offering a Falafel Kit. The kit contains a dry mix that has a traditional mid-east recipe and allows others to make falafel very easily without trying to mix all kinds of ingredients. It also allows others to get a true taste of the mid-eastern food. I would like to link my site WWW.FalafelKits.COM to the falafel page. I will also add a Misplaced Pages-Falafel link to my site.

Thank you for you time, FalafelKits 00:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

We don't present commercial links on Misplaced Pages. Sorry.--C.Logan 01:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Removed "History" section

In the interest of WP:NPOV I have removed the "History" section. First, it seems duplicated with the "Cultural" section and second, it looked entirely based on the actions of a confirmed sockpuppetteer POV pusher who was causing trouble on many food-related articles. M1rth (talk) 22:23, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi there. I srongly object to you removal of this information which I have restored. It does not duplicated information anywhere in the article. I added it myself and it's based directly on the source cited. Please articulate a reason in line with Misplaced Pages policies or guidelines as to why this information is not relevant to this article. Claiming that "anti-Israel" "sockpuppets" added it, does not constitute one. Particularly since it is not even true. Tiamut 09:10, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Gilabrand, please stop changing the text to read as you wish it did, rather than what the reliable sources cited actually state. WP:NPOV does not mean replacing text that you find offensive with text than you think is "neutral". It means reporting what reliable sources say and attributing the varied viewpoints to them. As such, I have restored this paragraph:

Orna Agmon has compared the history of falafel to that of the sabra, the local prickly fruit that Palestinians ate for centuries before Israelis started using the word as a nickname for native-born Israelis. Ammiel Alcalay, a Jewish professor of Middle Eastern culture, similarly believes that "it's total appropriation," and that Israelis have claimed falafel in the same way that they have Jaffa oranges and the spice mixture zaatar.

Your version which read:

The history of falafel has been compared to that of the sabra, the local prickly fruit that local residents ate for centuries before the word became a nickname for native-born Israelis. Ammiel Alcalay, a Jewish professor of Middle Eastern culture, similarly believes that Israelis have claimed falafel in the same way that they have Jaffa oranges and the spice mixture zaatar.

changed ther meaning of the text completely, so as to imply that there was no cultural appropriation involved, when Alcalay and Agmon are quite clear that in their opinion, there was. Tiamut 11:27, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I will "neutralize" the texts, so that they are encyclopedic - or they won't be used here. You are adding contentious material deliberately. Now that certain editors have been blocked indefinitely, perhaps now is the time to rethink whether efforts to politicize this article are worth your while.--Gilabrand (talk) 11:32, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Gilabrand, you are doing it again, and without even discussing. The article explains a lot of varied viewpoints on the falafel debate. These need to be attributed to their owners. Instead of deleting or changing the viewpoints you think are unapaltable from those provided by the source says, why not add other viewpoints? For example: you can add something from this section:

Jewish and Israeli attitudes toward the falafel debate range from defiance to ambivalence to outright shame — just as they do toward the conflict at large. Some Jews point out that no single group can own a method for frying a mush of legumes; they say that falafel is generically Middle Eastern, having originated in Egypt and found its way as far as Morocco and Saudi Arabia. "Have we stolen pasta from the Italians?" asked Geoffrey Weill, who does public relations for Israel's Ministry of Tourism. "What kind of nonsense is that?" Hagay Nagar, the Israeli co-owner of Hoomoos Asli in New York, says that falafel is now "an international food, like a hamburger." (Nevertheless, his restaurant has an Arabic name: "Asli," a word adopted by Israeli slang, means "original" in Arabic.)

Your edits are downplaying the contestation over the issue of falafel's ownership, rather than fully explaining it to the reader. I'm surprised by your lack of understanding and respect for WP:NPOV. Please self-revert and add what you feel needs to be added to achieve balance, instead of doing it by mangling the meaning of the text in place. Tiamut 11:34, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Nobody "owns" felafel. The article states it originated in Egypt and is eaten throughout the Middle East and now, the world. What is your interest in perpetuating this stupid, political argument? Felafel is enjoyed by many people and considered an element of Arab cuisine. That can be stated quite simply, without bringing in the opinion of every street cleaner, dishwasher and felafel seller in NY, not to mention attention seeking researchers who need to spice up their thesis to get someone to read it. Here on Misplaced Pages, we have an opportunity to make the world a better place by offering information. Your material is political, and is phrased in a style that will only keep the debate over this page raging. What a waste of creative energy.--Gilabrand (talk) 11:48, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

How sad. This said though, I think the article should report the controversy so I would propose starting a sourced section on the controversy itself, as a sub-section of a thoroughly sourced history section. By sourced, I would tend to agree with what Gilabrand implies: Sourced PoV and opinion can be helpful but it must come from a published expert. I don't think owning a restaurant qualifies anyone as a food historian (although a food historian may own a restaurant), so sundry published quotes from retail vendors may not be reliable. Gwen Gale (talk) 12:34, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Since you people can't stop the warring...

I've created Talk:Falafel/Workshop. Propose edits THERE. Let's not have more of this nightmare on food pages. M1rth (talk) 13:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I've restored the history section because I see no need to delete its sourced information during the discussion. Moreover, I think it's ok to add more sourced material of whatever PoV to the article without bringing it up first on the talk page, so long as the source meets WP:V. Gwen Gale (talk) 14:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, I only restored the sourced history section as a starting point for discussion, thinking more sources would show up shortly and balance the section's PoV. Had I known a request to protect the page had been made, I would not have restored the section. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:05, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} Gwen and I are in agreement : the best way to resolve the dispute is to remove the section to the created workshop page where both sides will be equally forced to work out their differences rather than seeing a "default" version protected. We are requesting Gwen's last edit prior to page protection be reverted, as per Gwen's statement above and this diff. M1rth (talk) 17:41, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

 Done - Alison 17:52, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

History Section

Template:RFCpol

This RfC created to hopefully get a few more editors to help out on Talk:Falafel/Workshop. I hope this is a good use of RfC, let's see if a few more eyes can't help the troubles. For users coming in new, see the talk page above and the page history for various different versions. M1rth (talk) 18:02, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the history section should be reinstated. It's removal seems POV. Falafel has a long Arab history, and a short Israeli (and rest of the world) one. That said, I'm not a fan of the wording. Isn't enough to have a short line or two explaining that the falafel is now popular in Israel and some feel that it has been appropriated as an 'authentically' Israeli food - rather than the extended attack which was there. We don't need to turn this article into cultural war, even if we make brief mention of it. Falafel is too good a food for that - I'm a white New Zealander and I love it as much as anyone! Mostlyharmless (talk) 05:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
For your edification, the History section was removed to a workshop page so that neither side of the POV dispute had reason to feel that "their" version was protected. I had hoped this would encourage them to come together an work on a compromise version, with the entire goal of re-adding a proper version and not having more edit wars. Care to propose a version on the workshop page please? M1rth (talk) 07:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Mostlyharmless and have made some minor modifications to his edits at the workshop page. But where are we supposed to discuss those edits? Could those who need to discuss the changes open a section for that here? Thanks. Tiamut 11:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
It's odd that an article about food has been fully protected because of edit warring. I can't pretend to be an expert on whether falafel is an authentic Arab or Israeli dish, but it is served widely in both cultures and the wording of the article should reflect this, and not be used as a battleground for political issues. --♦IanMacM♦ 11:54, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Documenting the history of how a dish invented and consumed primarilyl by Arabs, came to be considered "Israeli"m and also eaten worldwide is relevant to the article. It is unfortunate that people are offended by historical facts, but that doesn't mean the information should not be included. It is also unfortunate that people have failed to discuss these issues calmly and that everything associated with the Middle East seems to morph into a political battle. But we cannot avoid reporting on things just because they are controversial. Misplaced Pages is not censored. Tiamut 12:15, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Protected

Fully protected - due to the level of disruptive edit-warring over the last few weeks. As M1rth says, please use the talk page to resolve your issues instead. Let me know when things are sorted and I'll lift the article protect. Thanks - Alison 15:35, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Falafel/Workshop and Talk:Falafel/Workshop

Tiamut, since you asked, I have moved Talk:Falafel/Workshop to Falafel/Workshop so that Talk:Falafel/Workshop can be used to discuss edits in an easier fashion. Thank you for pointing this out and I hope it helps. M1rth (talk) 17:24, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

re: Falafel has been part of the diet of Arabs, as well as Mizrahi Jews for centuries.

Are you challenging this statement? If so, on what grounds? Or are you objecting to the source alone? If you object to the source, why? And why is that enough to remove this line? I don’t honestly know what kind of a reputation e-cookbooks has, but I do know that it is a third-party that publishes non-controversial and non-extremist material directly relevant to the topic, making it appropriate to the context. - Irn (talk) 17:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

So I realized that the Kantor article is actually from the NYTimes, which kind of renders this discussion a moot point; however, I still want to hear your responses, if you could take the time to do so. - Irn (talk) 17:35, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Hebrew name

Falafel is an Arabic word, so why do we have the Hebrew transliteration of the Arabic after the bolded term in the introduction? I should note that we are having the same discussion at Talk:Za'atar and that I've asked at the WP:MoS talk page for some guidance on how to deal with other languages in parentheses. My own personal opinion is that the transliteration in languages not related to the term's etymology are unnecessary and raise the question of where to draw the line (for example, should we also list how falafel is transcribed in Greek?) Your feedback, here, at Za'atar or the MoS page, would be appreciated. Tiamut 01:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Tiamut, I do not believe Hebrew should be here, that is for sure. It is stated in the article that Falafel is plural of an arabic word, "filfil", and adding the Arabic text is appropriate. Adding the Hebrew text I believe is simply an organized attack to not allow any Arabic dish to be sourced exclusively as Arabic. This is extreme overkill since I believe the translation should be included when the word is taken from the actual word in the cited language. Same with Za'atar. These are arguably international dishes, but what is indisputable is that these are ARABIC words that have made there way into the English language since those foods are now eaten all over the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael-mike1 (talk • contribs) 07:12, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

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