Misplaced Pages

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Aimone Duke or King?

Hi Elonka, I wonder if you'd be intersted in assessing the situation with the proposed move of the Tomislav II of Croatia, 4th Duke of Aosta to Aimone, 4th Duke of Aosta and perhaps closing the matter? Its been (I think) over a week now and we really need a neutral view, and perhaps even arbitration, to end the matter. --DIREKTOR 19:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

The discussion should stay open because the Director has not notified users who participated in the previous proposal for a move. They deserve to have a say. If you have any personal interest in the matter or have some sources (which for the matter of fact the support crew doesn't have) you should participate and therefore not decide the matter. -- Imbris (talk) 22:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion

I placed a speedy at the article Sophia Bekele. The author posted into mainspace by accident when the article was not ready, he is now developing the article in user space first at a user page and asks for a courtesy deletion from main space until it's ready, the article is here Sophia Bekele, the author is working in his user space here, , since speedy was not so speedy in this case could you just delete it with your tools? The subject of the article is also involved somehow she has a talk page here User talk:Sbekele, she blanked the mainspace article once (it was in bad shape). Hobartimus (talk) 08:27, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Elonka 08:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I received the following message from the subject , I think I understand it to mean that this real person is unhappy about random ANI chatter about her showing up in google even archived , this seems to be the offending thread and it does show up in google pretty early in the results. I have no idea why ANI archives are google indexed in the first place, but the complaint seems legitimate to me, since it's about a real person (full name was used in ANI that's why it shows up). However I don't think I know any procedure for this problem (maybe removal of the two instances where real name is mentioned and replacing them with (subject) or (name removed)) can ANI archives be edited this way or should I just tell her that the real article is developing well and it will outrank this ANI archive when it goes live? Maybe another solution is to write an OTRS ticket, but I don't know if I'm allowed to write one for other people? Hobartimus (talk) 21:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Mathsci

I don't know if you'd noticed but Mathsci has removed your comment from his talk page, sorry to bother you if you knew. :) Harland1 (/_c) 05:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I am free to remove any comment from my talk page that I like Harland1. Mathsci (talk) 06:34, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and yes, I noticed. It's okay though. By him removing my comment, I take it as a clear signal that he's read it. :)

If everyone can stay calm from here on, then the problem's over, and everyone can get back to work. If not, well, we'll deal with that as it comes. If you do see future behavior by any editor that you find questionable, the best way to handle it is to leave a small polite note at that editor's talkpage, with a diff of the comment. That serves multiple purposes: It notifies the editor in a clear way; it flags the problem for others (such as admins) who may be watching that editor's talkpage; and it provides a record, in case further action is required. If the situation has to proceed to another stage of dispute resolution such as ANI or an RfC or ArbCom, it can be really helpful to have a paper trail on the editor's talkpage, from which to pull together evidence. Also, if/when an admin is requested, one of the first things that any admin will do, is check the user's talkpage to see if they've already been warned. And don't worry, most admins are wise to the "blanking" technique. Any experienced admin will know to look at history rather than just what's on the page. See also some useful tips at WP:DE.

What would be most helpful right now, from all involved, is that they stay very very polite and civil with each other. That makes it much easier to screen out the background noise, and then those editors who are unable or unwilling to remain civil, become much easier to deal with. For a humorous essay on this, see here.  :) --Elonka 05:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Mathsci: I didn't say you weren't. :) Harland1 (/_c) 09:51, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Diff

(ec) This was a revert of a foolish edit by User:Michellecrisp. Her movement of 2 sentences, carefully written and researched over a year ago by me, listed a public library and a visual arts centre under the category "opera and theatre" (I had also rewritten the opera section to replace a direct translation of an Opera House publicity blurb). This was a capricious edit and was "effectively vandalism". In future please look at the original diff, before commenting on any subsequent interchange. In this case I believe that User:Michellecrisp made these changes to Marseille and Aix-en-Provence to prolong her intervention on the talk page of WikiProject Mathematics. Unlike me, she does not edit mathematics articles. She appears to watch my talk page because she randomly chimes in on conversations with other editors that have nothing to do with her and which have nothing to do with her current mainspace edits.

As for User:Jagz, he is trolling on WP:AN/I and on Talk:Race and intelligence. What other words can be used for his endless discussion about the inclusion of "different" before "race" and his slurs on long-time editor/administrator User:Slrubenstein? As a WP:SPA pushing a fringe point of view, he is far from being a typical WP editor. I know that adminstrators love to treat problematic WP:SPA editors with kid gloves and dislike expert editors who write indecipherable articles on Fredholm determinants, Iphigenie, Porte d'Aix or Spectral theory of ordinary differential equations, but can this point of view not occasionally be taken too far? Apparently you are condoning the disinformation that User:Michellecrisp added to Marseille (and her later inaccurate edits to Aix-en-Provence). Do you really approve of editors adding incorrect information, or is there something I have misunderstood? They may think that they are acting in good faith, but whereas I purchase books or consult library books to write many WP articles, they can just include faulty information from unreliable sources (in this case a poorly translated foldable city guide on one sheet of paper).

I already wrote to User:C S that I did not appreciate the attack on me on WikiProject Mathematics and was contemplating leaving the project and removing my recent contributions. I don't find the words you left on my talk page insightful in the light of this attack on me: you hadn't really spent long enough finding out what was going on and, despite your compliment on my edits, you might not have realised that perhaps Michellecrisp had succeeded in disrupting my mainspace editing. Other editors have been removing some of her comments on my talk page. How would you describe that kind of edit? Why did User:Michellecrisp report this diff on the WikiProject Mathematics page? Isn't that being disruptive? Mathsci (talk) 06:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the diffs, I will look into all of them in detail. And please, Mathsci, in no way did I intend to indicate that you are the sole one at fault here. Instead, I genuinely am trying to give you constructive advice on how to improve your communication style slightly.

My impression of you thus far is that you are a thoughtful academic, who is extremely busy off-wiki, and in those times that you have time on-wiki, you would rather spend it working on articles, than having to "suffer the interference of fools." I get that.  :) However, perhaps unconsciously, I think that you are doing and saying things that are actually drawing more conflict in your direction than you want. That's why I am bringing things up, to point out these things about your communication style of which you may be unaware.

In other words, if one wants to escalate a conflict, the quickest way to usually do so, is to call the other party a pejorative term. When you refer to another editor as engaging in a "foolish edit", or doing something "capricious", or "trolling" or "vandalizing", these kinds of words are not "accurate descriptions" of a situation, these are inflammatory terms which often make the situation actively worse. And as a mechanism of getting someone to "go away", they are extremely ineffective. Instead, such terms tend to evoke very primitive reactions. See WP:MASTODON.  :)

Also, I understand that it's natural in these situations to feel a bit defensive. However, be careful about what kinds of motivations that you are projecting onto other people. For example, you are implying that I'm not understanding what's going on, but when you say, "I know that administrators love to treat SPAs with kid gloves, and dislike expert editors," or when you say that I am "condoning disinformation," it makes me smile, because it tells me that you really don't know my history at all, heh. My own philosophy is usually to bend over backwards to accommodate the genuine academics, because I know how much value that they can add to Misplaced Pages. If you want a character reference, I could put you in touch with some on-wiki Harvard academics that can vouch for me. :)

As far as your own issues, I am still researching the entire situation, and I assure you that I am looking into the history of all involved, not just yours. I am also looking at Michellecrisp's and and Jagz's contribs, and several other editors. Along the way, I'm also looking for places where "quick fixes" can be made, and I'm looking for places where unneeded terms are "complicating" the equation.  :) My goal as an administrator is not to "punish the disruptive", but is instead to "reduce disruption". I want you to be able to get back to productive editing. But each time you use terms such as "trolling" and "vandalism" and "foolish" and "capricious", it causes noise which makes my job harder. So please, just as an exercise, do you think that you could remove them from your on-wiki vocabulary for a little while? It would definitely help the situation. Thanks, Elonka 07:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

What you have written is a completely reasonable and accurate appraisal. Am I mistaken in thinking that you might be one of the brave administrators/editors that deal with problem pages to do with Eastern Europe, or am I confusing you with somebody else? Mathsci (talk) 09:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Tryin'.  :) --Elonka 09:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Templates

Obviously you haven't looked! Johnbod (talk) 06:45, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Internet Explorer - don't know my screen res I'm afraid. I see this very commonly, when the picture is at the start of a section. If it was just below the template itself it would have been ok. Johnbod (talk) 07:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Dejeuner ...

... was ruined because I had to run home to fetch Duchene and Contrucci. I cannot help you with the caption. The fort of St Jean was rebuilt following Louis XIV's imposition of order on the City of Marseille. Glad to see you've found a new hobby. (Duchene and Contrucci cost me 32 € and is very heavy.) Mathsci (talk) 12:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL! It wasn't that urgent, I didn't mean to take you away from your croissant.  :) But thanks for the quick work! The Great Plague of Marseille article also desperately needs sources, if you'd like to add something there.

As for the image, what struck me is that it said it was "built on the Knights Hospitaller". Modesty aside, I guess I'd have to list myself as one of the current Medievalists on Misplaced Pages, which is why my interest was piqued. I was one of the key editors in bringing Knights Templar to FA status, and I have some passing acquaintance with the other military orders, though most of my attention at the moment is on the Franco-Mongol relations towards the end of the Crusades. Anyway, that caption struck me as being a bit off. My guess is that it's supposed to say "the ruins of the fort of the Knights Hospitaller", but since I'm not familiar with the sources, I didn't want to make any radical changes. Hopefully someone else will figure it out within the next few days; if not, we should probably rework the caption to something easier to understand. Do you think this might have come from a tourist brochure? I guess we could dig through the history to find out who added the information, and see if they're still around! --Elonka 12:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

At some later date I can go and check in situ. I doubt it came from a tourist brochure: it was quite a curious thing to add. However, like the Abbey of St Victor, it would not surprise me if the committee for the reconstruction of Marseille, set up by Louis XIV, had ordered the demolition of an older building, leaving only the foundations for the new fort. My history book refers to "la commanderie des Hospitaliers de Saint-Jean" buried in the foundations (Page 333, Duchene & Contrucci), so that seems completely to confirm the caption. After all, the committee destroyed the town walls and ramparts along the rue d'Aix. I haven't checked the French WP page on Fort St Jean, but there might also be something useful there. I have located two sources for the Great Plague of Marseille (one from JSTOR in English), both of which could be used to expand the article. There are also more images on the French WP site than the one I've added. In Aix-en-Provence the Benediction des Calissons is said to date from the end of the great plague (I think), a religious ceremony in early September to mark the deliverance of Aix. It takes place metres from where I live, in the place St Jean de Malte. Mathsci (talk) 17:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Here is a website which contains the info in the caption. Mathsci (talk) 17:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the research! So looks like "command post" is the proper translation. Care to do the honors?  :) --Elonka 17:46, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Proposed naming convention, way forward?

Hi Elonka, thanks for guiding the Slovaks and Hungarians out of the trenches! Now that there has been quite some constructive discussion about the proposed naming convention for Slovak places, what would be the way forward? Is it a good idea to create a separate naming convention, and vote about the modifications? Or should we make it a sub-rule of WP:NCGN (and vote there)? Markussep 09:07, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Block

Yeah, I hesitated about the block, but while I was hesitating, the large edits were coming fast and furious, I couldn't be sure if they were things easily undone or not. Plus the talk page had a note at the top saying that any addition would be deleted unread - what does one do to get an editor's attention then? Stan (talk) 12:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I used up an irreplaceable chunk of my life dealing with User:Wik's disruptive wikignoming, so I have very little patience for that anymore. Your attitude is commendable though. Stan (talk) 12:44, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Would I do it the same way again? I think so. I did look at the history of her talk page, and saw the pattern of deletion of remarks posted, so the "delete unread" claim seemed plausible, and while I was doing all this, several more edits came in. My usual experience with fast-and-furious editors has been that they ignore talk page notes anyway, so between that and the advance notice that a polite warning was going to be ignored, a short block seems like the appropriate clue-by-four. Stan (talk) 22:07, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

controversial edit?

Hi, I am wondering what was controversial about my edit at Pilisszentkereszt? I didn't remove any info, added new and improved the layout. The only controversial part was Rocket's comment that misinterpreted my edit. At least he had the decency to remove it.--Svetovid (talk) 13:45, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

At Pilisszentkereszt you modified the lead, but left a version you would never apply for a Slovak place with Hungarian majority. If you say everything was all right with your edit, I ask you if I can modify the lead at Slovak cities/villages (with Hungarian majority) to your version.

It is simply tiresome dealing with your edits all the time, that's why I removed my comment. Squash Racket (talk) 13:54, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

You are lying again. See the original version of the article. Also, do not assume what I would or wouldn't do.--Svetovid (talk) 10:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Sophia Bekele

Dear Elnoka--- sorry to keep troubling you. the article I completed on 'sophia bekele' has this message below every time I open it. Could you pls advise on what it is and why it is there? also , why would the warning state that article would be deleted if it is not edited? Thanks so mcuh!!

"This article or section is in the middle of an expansion or major revamping. You are welcome to assist in its construction by editing it as well. Please view the edit history should you wish to contact the person who placed this template. If this article has not been edited in several days please remove this template. Consider not tagging with a deletion tag unless the page hasn't been edited in several days."

Lashford (talk) 13:48, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Dear Elnoka, thanks for your help so far. I have finished the article and posted it on the main page. Please advise on how to delete the my user page, so that the following does not appear in search enginees. Thanks you

User:Lashford/Sophia Bekele - Misplaced Pages, the 💕Sophia Bekele (born and raised in the city of Addis Ababa, Ethiopia) is a business and corporate executive, consultant published writer and philanthropist. ... en.wikipedia.org/User:Lashford/Sophia_Bekele - 77k -

Lashford (talk) 14:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Dear Elonka. Please note that this page is not finished being edited. Like you advised before, I was hoping to work in the user area before moving it for publishing. It seem now that it is appearing in the searches. Can you please correct? or advise how I can do it? Thank you.

"User:Lashford/Sophia Bekele - Misplaced Pages, the 💕Sophia Bekele (born and raised in the city of Addis Ababa, Ethiopia) is a business and corporate executive, consultant published writer and philanthropist. ...

Thank you Lashford (talk) 03:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Ms Crisp

I am relieved that you are looking into the matter of Mathsci v. Michellecrisp. I am another victim of Ms Crisp’s harassment and stalking, but unlike Mr Mathsci I confess that in the face of her relentless stalking I have simply given up and largely desisted from further Misplaced Pages editing. I do hope that you will indeed thoroughly investigate Ms Crisp’s aggressive behaviour and possibly urge her to take a more positive, courteous and encouraging attitude. Masalai (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Masalai (talk • contribs) 23:19, April 26, 2008 (UTC)

Indeed I was provoked to intemperate comment in explanation of edits. Her rudeness has that effect. As I say, I have largely abandoned the project since every single contribution I have made, she has followed: it is more than a little creepy, to be frank. Masalai (talk) 07:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

whilst I encounter incivility sometimes on Misplaced Pages, simply blaming me for persistent personal attacks (which resulted in your blocking) is really passing the buck, in the end you take responsibility for your actions/comments on Misplaced Pages like sensible adults including how you react to others. I welcome any investigation of my edits. "Every single contribution" is a gross exaggeration. As for following edits, one thing I had to correct (which admin LaraLove also supported) was Masalai's constantly incorrectly labelling References sections as Notes in direct contravention of http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:LAYOUT#Standard_appendices_and_descriptions This persisted despite warnings to the contrary. Michellecrisp (talk) 14:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

While I am not condoning the things that Masalai (talk · contribs) said (they were clear violations of WP:CIVIL), I still have to point out that the comments were not made in a vacuum. I have found no evidence that Masalai was actively pursuing Michellecrisp (talk · contribs). Most of his comments seem to have been reactions to notes that were placed on his talkpage, and then began a vicious cycle, as Michellecrisp placed a message, Masalai removed it with a snarky comment, Michellecrisp warned him again, he removed that with another snarky comment, and so forth. Then Michellecrisp went to a bunch of articles that Masalai had been editing, and either changed or criticizing the referencing. Though her comments might have been completely innocuous in some other context, in the highly-charged atmosphere at the time, any edit by Michellecrisp was seen as an attack, especially when she was suddenly popping up at several other articles on his watchlist. Masalai reacted defensively (and again, unfortunately, with incivility). At which point Michellecrisp would place another warning, and 'round the cycle would go again.

Though these activities occurred a couple months ago, it appears that both editors are still carrying a grudge, and neither is willing to "let it go". Masalai feels that Michellecrisp was stalking him, and regards her actions as rude and aggressive; Michellecrisp feels that Masalai is uncivil, and that he's the one that is rude and aggressive.

But as regards their current editing practices, except for their conflict with each other, both are otherwise pretty good editors. Does that pretty much sum it up? --Elonka 14:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Elonka, thanks for your comments, it is appreciated. as you know I've done many many edits since Feb so this issue was over for me (especially as the attacks ceased) until it popped up just then. So I'm prepared to put it to rest, especially since you've now investigated it. hope Masalai will do the same. Michellecrisp (talk) 14:46, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

As you can see, Ms Crisp appears to follow me everywhere I go, even after many weeks of my forbearing to edit at all. Does she want me to desist utterly from contributing to the Misplaced Pages project? Possibly you could investigate Ms Crisp's stalking behaviour. It is beyond creepy and surely cannot be healthy. Masalai (talk) 09:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Masalai, I've looked through your contribs over the last month, and I'm honestly not seeing any place where you and Michellecrisp have intersected at all. Am I missing something? If so, please give me a link. If not, my recommendation is to just go back to editing at this point. If there are disputes somewhere, let me or some other admin know, and we can deal with those as they come up. But it's really looking to me like the problem is over at this point. If I've missed something though, definitely tell me. --Elonka 09:55, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Dear Elonka, of course there is no interaction between myself and Ms Crisp, infelicitous or otherwise, in the past month. As I say, Ms Crisp has accomplished her goal as to me (as to how any others?) of ridding the Misplaced Pages project of contributors like myself. I have barely edited at all since she began weirdly stalking and harrassing me personally: one assumes that Ms Crisp's negative agenda must be to discourage contribution to Misplaced Pages altogether. But what is her positive agenda, if any? Ms Crisp appears not to have made any original contributions at all beyond one or two articles of hers that were soon deleted as being insignificant ("Pubs of Newtown" appears to have been one of her contributions, and it was soon thrust out.)

Do you think there is any favourable comment to at all to be made as to Ms Crisp's interventions among Misplaced Pages contributors, as to their contributions and on their talk pages, which it seems to me thus far are wholly malign? Masalai (talk) 10:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Masalai, I have to admit confusion here, as to what exactly you want? What would you like to see happen, for you to feel comfortable about editing again? --Elonka 10:40, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, it appears that Ms Crisp has gone on to other projects than stalking me -- I even note in one or two articles I have contributed to that she has recently even made positive contributions instead of merely idly criticising -- so perhaps the combination of my taking a long rest while bringing the matter to your attention has had a salutary effect. I confess that had Ms Crisp been minimally courteous in the first instance I would not have taken umbrage at her interventions, which may well have been ultimately constructive: I am annoyed at gratuitous rudeness. Thank you for your assistance, however passive: it appears to have been helpful. Masalai (talk) 13:09, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

You are most welcome, and if there's anything else I can do, or if you notice anything else which is interfering with your ability to edit in a productive manner, from any source, please do not hesitate to get in touch.  :) --Elonka 13:17, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Angel nom

You're going straight to heaven, if I have any say in the matter. I'll cancel my WP hiatus now. <grin> Thanks for being the voice of common sense. --TheEditrix2 23:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and I do hope you will consider "redecorating" your user page. Let me know when you're done, I'd love to take a look! :) --Elonka 13:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Priory of Sion

In light of my previous request, I just wanted to let you know that Priory of Sion has just been listed as a good article. :) --Loremaster (talk) 20:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Your warning

If you post once more on Johnbods page, I'll take it to AN/I. Really, what do you hope to achieve here. Nice deflexion, bty. Ceoil (talk) 02:10, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Be my guest. You may however wish to review this AN thread first though. --Elonka 02:12, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. Remember what I said about context, intention, edit history or reputation, and bots? Judgement and research please. This is going on for days, and still you are rigidly following the letter of the law to is barest most desperate reaches. The edit was about image positions. Ceoil (talk) 02:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

And the edit summary was grossly uncivil. That's the core issue here, that the summary was inappropriate. I am frankly surprised that you are continuing to defend it. --Elonka 02:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes you said. A number of times. But note A number of times. Also you just switched argument. Do you hunt down and demand an personall apology from all established editors who make a flippant remark to an ip. That would seem a wasteful way to spend life, and a detriment to the project. Ceoil (talk) 02:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not defending it, I saying you are blowing it out of all portion. He did explain, end of story. Ceoil (talk) 02:28, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Ceoil, you are the one who jumped in, 5 days after the original incident, to stir it up again, and further escalate things by accusing me of harassment, on two pages now. And now you're also threatening an ANI thread? Talk about "out of all proportion", see WP:KETTLE. To answer your original question though, yes, while this project of calming the ethnic dispute is in-process, I will absolutely continue to contact any editor who jumps into the middle of it with an uncivil comment or attack. It is now my recommendation that you drop this, instead of continuing to escalate this even further. --Elonka 02:38, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Reply

It would be great, thanks. Hobartimus (talk) 04:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Robert Fico

New thread on the experiment page, please, have a say. --Rembaoud (talk) 17:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Mediation Lecture

The next Misplaced Pages:Lectures will be by User:Vassyana about how to mediate disputes. Might be interesting!

--Kim Bruning (talk) 18:58, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Question

I just want to ask a question, i saw that you semi-protected the user page of Hobartimus because of vandal edits but when i look at the page history here i can only see one vandal edit. Why is it that we cant see the rest? Is it because when a user gets blocked, their contributions dont show up? Can you please help me out, i was just curious thats all. I thought it was only Oversights who can hide certain edits in certain circumstances. Thanks Roadrunnerz45 12:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

It does thanks, i always wanted to know about the deleted edits. You puts my mind at rest:) Roadrunnerz45 14:41, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Missed that comment

You are lying again. See the original version of the article. Also, do not assume what I would or wouldn't do.--Svetovid (talk) 10:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Just noticed this comment. Svetovid, please don't accuse me a day after my comment with anything, especially not on someone else's talk page. What I said is true: you modified the lead at Pilisszentkereszt, but left there a version you would never accept at Slovak villages/cities (see for example your controversial edit at Zilina, where you deleted the Hungarian name from the lead even though there is not even a separate names section).
Also administrator Thatcher referred to your misuse of Twinkle at the MarkBA sockpuppet page, but you don't seem to get the message. These edits were not vandalism.
Elonka, may we include archived threads that are not yet included at the experiment page? Squash Racket (talk) 12:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely, yes, feel free to expand it with any threads that I haven't spotted yet. :) --Elonka 14:32, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Before I get attacked again, I translated an article here, this is a citation of the linked article almost word by word. I am not drawing any parallels etc. and the article comes from a newspaper of record. Squash Racket (talk) 16:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you from Horologium

Thank you for participating in my RfA, which passed unanimously with the support of 100 editors. Your kindness is very much appreciated. I look forward to using the tools you have granted me to aid the project. I would like to give special thanks to Wizardman, Black Falcon and jc37 for nominating me. — Horologium

Articles per day

Yes, the net increase in articles is 1,500 to 2,000 per day. But there are actually around 2,500-3,000 articles added every day. (About 1,000-1,500 or so are deleted every day, but that doesn't affect the number that are added.)

I was using User:Dragons flight/Log analysis, though that's a bit dated, but it sounds like our numbers aren't that far apart. (As an aside, "several", to me, means "two to four"; at the rate of even 1,000 articles per day, a week's worth would exceed "several" thousand, as I interpret the word.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 17:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

New Project

Myself and several other editors have been compiling a list of very active editors who would likely be available to help new editors in the event they have questions or concerns. As the list grew and the table became more detailed, it was determined that the best way to complete the table was to ask each potential candidate to fill in their own information, if they so desire. This list is sorted geographically in order to provide a better estimate as to whether the listed editor is likely to be active.

If you consider yourself a very active Wikipedian who is willing to help newcomers, please either complete your information in the table or add your entry. If you do not want to be on the list, either remove your name or just disregard this message and your entry will be removed within 48 hours. The table can be found at User:Useight/Highly Active, as it has yet to have been moved into the Misplaced Pages namespace. Thank you for your help. Useight (talk) 02:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Dimitrion Yordanidis

Hi, I'd be interested to know why the article on Dimitrion Yordanidis was deleted? --Kathlutz (talk) 11:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

At the time I tagged it (December 2006), I wouldn't go so far as to call it an article. All it had was the following: "Dimitrion Yordanidis was the oldest person known to have completed the marathon. On 10 October 1976, at age 98, Yordanidis completed the Athens Marathon, Greece, in approximately 7 hours, 33 minutes. His name is listed on http://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_Greeks. Please note this information is based on limited information obtained from wikipedia.org and other public web sites".

I intended no disrespect, but in order for an article to pass Misplaced Pages's notability requirements, it requires proper third-party sources. See WP:V and WP:BIO. Misplaced Pages receives thousands of attempts at new articles each day, and over a thousand are deleted within 24 hours, as they are inappropriate, unsourced, non-notable, or in many cases simply hoaxes or spam. Teenagers will often make up a name and just insert something like what you saw above, so we have no easy way of knowing whether or not the information is accurate, since no sources are provided. Yes we could do our own research, but things are moving too fast for that, and it would be, unfortunately, a colossal waste of time if every time a child added some unsourced dubious claim, other editors had to spend time researching whether or not it was true. So our community consensus, is that the responsibility of providing sources is on those who wish to add the information. Anything that is unsourced, can be removed on sight. If an editor thinks the removed information is appropriate, then they can simply add it back, with actual sources.

If you would like to go ahead and create a new version which is more fleshed out, please proceed. --Elonka 12:15, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your quick reply. Yordanidis has an entry in the Guinness Book of World Records and is often named in websites and newspaper articles as the oldest person to have finished a marathon. However, there are severe doubts about the validity of his record in sports circles (although I have found only secondary sources so far), and as far as I can see, he is excluded from all official or semi-official sports statistics about age related marathon records. Recently, he's been frequently mentioned in connection with Buster Martin and the 2008 London Marathon. I think it is worth considering to reinstate an article about him that expresses both the widely believed record claim as well as the doubts but there is no need to rush it.--Kathlutz (talk) 13:47, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I saw the Guinness source, and agree that it's a strong enough claim of notability to justify an article. And I also agree that it would be an excellent idea to include both the claim and the doubts. That would be a perfect example of neutrality.  :) I'd do it myself, but my plate is already very full with many different projects. Good luck with it though!  :) --Elonka 14:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, I took the plunge and created the article on Dimitrion Yordanidis. I hope it passes muster. I will continue to look for more information on the validity of his race result. Marathon runners in their 90s are still extremely rare today and this result for a 98 year old from 1976(!!!) is highly unusual. No one but Guinness (and those who quote Guinness) seem to know about it/him. I am convinced that the issue of very old runners (in their 80s and 90s) will become more prevalent in coming years and there is a need and an interest for reliable information. BTW, Werner Sonntag has an entry in the German version of Misplaced Pages. Can I/should I link to it, and if so, how? --Kathlutz (talk) 09:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Stub looks good! I've added links to it from a couple places, such as List of marathoners. You might also want to check with someone who speaks Greek, to see if there's an article about Yordanidis at the Greek Misplaced Pages, so you can interwiki it. A note at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Greece might be good. As for Sonntag, you could try either linking to his article at de:Werner Sonntag, or you could try checking at that article to see if there's a source you could use. Keep up the great work, Elonka 11:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Etretat

I'll be going there at the end of May - what part of the town do you want me to take photos of ? 14:15, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Not sure about Paris, we'll see - but at Étretat, I'll see what I can dig up on them (having never heard of them before ! ) ;-) Dickie (talk) 14:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Dirty Dancing

Hi, well, I can't say the opening is good enough. I think someone fresh should go throught it. Remove "being". Screenplay was written, not film? "Concerns" rather than "details"? "teenageD"? I don't like "moment of time"; "the passage into womanhood, both ph and em., by a t g who has a relationship with ...". And lots more. Whole thing spruced up would delight the reviewers at FAC. TONY (talk) 14:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

RE: Dirty Dancing

I've only read the lead for now; perhaps I'll do a more in-depth review when I have the time. However, if the lead is indicative of the quality of the rest of the article, I'd be inclined to say that more work needs to be done.

• "credited as being one of the most watched films of all time." Source is an unscientific poll that gives no info on who the respondents were and how many were polled. I would hardly consider this noteworthy of mentioning in the article, let alone the very first sentence.
• "The story details the moment of time that a teenaged girl crosses over into womanhood both physically and emotionally," Quite an awkward sentence in need of a rewrite. "Details" is ungainly here. "Moment of time"? "Teenaged"?
• "(later famous for High School Musical)" He wasn't famous for Dirty Dancing?
• "with no major stars (at the time)" -> something like "featuring then-unknown actors" BuddingJournalist 15:14, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

User talk:204.113.176.3

Hi! Saw your name on the RC page. Please block the user above. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 16:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry! The user was blocked. Oda Mari (talk) 16:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The user repeatedly vandalized Cotton gin so I looked for an admin on a recent change page and found you. Btw, if it's appropriate please block User talk:Miffyandfrends. This seems to be a vandal account. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 15:33, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Please block User talk:168.24.1.102 too. thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 15:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Race and Intelligence archiving cutoff

Hello Elonka. I would like to respectfully suggest that the automated archive cutoff date be put back to a more standard value (say like 14 days), rather than you keeping adjusting it down. While I'll be the first to admit the talk page is impressive by its size, I think that too short a cutoff may be detrimental to continuity, and as we keep saying, Misplaced Pages isn't paper. However, I'll understand if you wish to submit the question first to the other editors as well. I'll abie by whatever consensus is arrived at regarding this question (which I hope will make it a potentially very easy consensus!). Thanks,Ramdrake (talk) 13:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your concerns. It's definitely a busy discussion! I've been keeping a close eye on it, as you can tell: Race and intelligence (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). When I first spotted the problem, the page was at over 450K! Per WP:SIZE, some people's browsers start running into technical issues at anything over 32K. My goal is to try and get the page to stabilize at no more than 100K or so, but currently the page is growing faster than it is being archived, which is why I tweaked the cutoff again.

As I look through the threads on the page, it looks like a lot of them will get archived with the next cycle. If that gets things back to a manageable level, I'll definitely adjust the bot back up to a longer cutoff. As for continuity, any thread that you think that's been archived, that still needs further discussion, you can definitely copy a relevant portion of it back to the talkpage. Or even better, start a new thread, which links to the prior portion in archive, and perhaps summarizes previous discussions.

For now, I recommend we let it sit for another 24 hours, and see what the page looks like after the next cycle. If there's any one thread that you think really needs to stay on the page, just add a comment to it, to show that the discussion is still active, and then the bot will leave it alone. --Elonka 13:17, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

5/7 DYK

On 7 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The White Bird, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford 00:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

My edits

Dear Elonka, I made two edits today at Slovaks and Petrzalka. I explained them at the respective talk pages and on your experimental page. But if you wish to review my edits, here they are. If you think something in them is not all right, please feel free to revert them and leave me a note on my user talk page. I hope I did not break any rule by making these edits. Cheers. Tankred (talk) 02:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)