Misplaced Pages

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• notes

Stuff I'm reading:

Erekat

Hmmm. Having looked at your preferred version and the current version, there does need to be some kind of compromise between the two. Your one has too much detail (the sentence "Israeli voices and conservative commentators leveled accusations that the international press preferred the Jenin "massacre hoax" to the facts causing harm to Israel's image, and accused the Palestinians and Erekat of lying." doesn't seem to be very helpful - the context is already there that he lied, and the bit on the Jewish state could be summed up more efficiently), but in contrast the current version has too little explanation. Unfortunately I'm just about to go on holiday for a fortnight, and I don't have the time to prepare a compromise version. If, when I come back, the section is still at its current length/detail, I'll have a go (you might want to remind me around 7/8 May). пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I was actually very pleased with a compromise achieved in September 2006 by me and Rama. But since September 2007 and until now, Eleland and others have claimed the event wasn't noticeable and should be deleted entirely. After 7 months of fact checking and source finding (including arguments over reliable sources). I'm fairly sure I'm not willing to go back to a version that barely has sources and proper referencing to the media lynching. Anyways, I just had the thought to give a try to conflict resolutions in a different angle than MEDCOM and possibly bury old hatchets at the same time.

Maybe I'll note you back around May. Cheers, Jaakobou 17:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC) cl 17:16, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

*sigh*

Hello again, Jaakobou. I just noticed your cross-posting of a thread you started on User talk:Jpgordon about how evil I am and how I need to be blocked. This is about the fourth or fifth time you've posted assertions about my conduct without contacting me first, or even informing me about it. Enough with the kangaroo court proceedings, please. Have the courtesy to inform me the next time. <eleland/talkedits> 15:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, that last message didn't go nearly far enough. I notice that you accuse me of promoting a blood libel. This is a vile personal attack which has nothing to do with dispute resolution. I'm asking you to withdraw it immediately. You don't need to apologize, since I don't believe you're capable of sincerity, but damned if I'm going to let that attack stand. <eleland/talkedits> 16:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure to where I accused you of promoting a blood libel. I apologize for neglecting to notify you of my note to Jpgordon each and every time you made an uncivil personal attack, I kinda got tired of asking you to stop leading the group of people making personal attacks on me. If you notice, once you took it down a notch and stopped supporting PalestineRememebered (talk · contribs)'s Jenin Massacre! Massacre! Massacre! agenda (sample: ), the others stopped almost entirely.

Cordially, Jaakobou 18:01, 23 April 2008 (UTC) minor 18:02, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

(offtopic) I'm not certain a Kangaroo court means what you were trying to say but I don't make a habit of taking English pot shots when statements become difficult to understand. Jaakobou 18:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? See you soon on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration enforcement. <eleland/talkedits> 18:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

• I've decided against WP:AE; a free-for-all will accomplish nothing. Please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Jaakobou. <eleland/talkedits> 20:16, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Image recovery

(offtopic) Help on recovering User_talk:Jaakobou#Copyright_problems_with_Image:Tunnels_uncovered_in_Rafah.jpg, would be appreciated. Jaakobou 13:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Do you have proof that the images are released under a free license? Stifle (talk) 15:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Images released by the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs are released under fair use guidelines. Using the Tunnels uncovered in Rafah operation should be linked in the Operation's article. It's basic fair use and the image possibly had an incomplete fair use rationale, but other than that (best I'm aware) - it should not have been deleted.

Thanks for looking into it. Jaakobou 17:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Can't be used under fair use due to failing to comply with WP:NFCC #1. Stifle (talk) 08:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning. I'm not aware that there a "free equivalent is available", but maybe you know something I don't? Jaakobou 11:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

A free equivalent could be created. Sorry, should have been clearer. Stifle (talk) 11:11, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Isn't this material copyrighted so that creating a copy and calling it free is in fact a copyright violation? I don't understand why the image is not allowed while a replacement is not available. Jaakobou 11:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

It looks to me like some arrows on a map. Seems replaceable enough... Stifle (talk) 11:17, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not being rude, but the deletion of this image is somewhat frustrating to me. To clarify, anyone putting some arrows on a map would be copying the arrows made by the Israeli Foreign Ministry and I'm not aware of any copyright free replacements existing. So I have to ask if you would mind raising this image to discussion in front of a larger audience? Jaakobou 11:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

The place for that would be Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. Stifle (talk) 11:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Opened here: Misplaced Pages:Media_copyright_questions#Image:Tunnels_uncovered_in_Rafah.jpg. Jaakobou 15:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Static version before it was archived: link. Jaakobou 18:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

reverts

I understand it wasn't reverted for grins, but how hard would it have been to say something different, rather than just revert the title sentence? And I guess I don't understand how the sentence I have is less in accordance with the cited sources than the sentence that was there previously. I may be wrong---let me repeat that, it is TOTALLY possible that I'm screwing up here, I'm not just saying that. But I don't see how the original wording was justified in light of the sources and the basic impression it gave about an indefinite number of communities. Protonk (talk) 15:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that original wording was not perfect considering the material in the article, but I still had to revert back to it since your edit included a clear-cut error. I think we resolved this dispute quickly and reasonably though.

Cheers, Jaakobou 16:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Got your e-mail, what did you need? Grsz 04:14, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Replied. Jaakobou 11:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Re A bit unfair

I think it's a bit unfair to leave such a comment on the edit summary; It's not like you've been following my progress since the Arbcom back in January (2008).
Anyways, I'm sure no mal-intent was involved and hope we'll be more cooperative and less judgmental in the future (See JzG and the Trout).
Cheers, Jaakobou 14:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry but I have had no idea that such an edit summary could be felt as bothering. That wasn't a judgment Jaakobou - that is a fact to me as I don't recall you agreed on something before. Why do you feel that it was directed to you? It applies to the other side as well. Right?... because that was what i meant. And if you could make JzG smile then you have no problems with me :)

Seriously, my concerns are exactly the ones I shared with you there and I don't think I was blind in not noticing both sides wrongdoings. How do you guys handle that stress? Listen to my advice and try to dedicate more time to listen to others. And of course, if anyone of you need any help I can assist of course but I don't like doing that in a noisy environment. -- FayssalF - 15:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

An idea worth trying?

Hi, here's a thought that might do some good. Today I was chatting with an editor from Serbia. Mentioned the Serbian-Croatian ethnic disputes on en:Wiki and he surprised me by telling me the Serbian and Croatian Wikipedias actually get along pretty well. Basically what happened was some guys packed into a car, drove to Zagreb, and shook some hands. Then some other guys packed into another car, drove to Belgrade, and shook some hands. Once they saw that they were all pretty normal people, things calmed down a lot.

Maybe there's a way we can replicate that. Would you be willing to try a voice chat on Skype? I've noticed that when Misplaced Pages editors get into a conference call, with voices instead of just text, it's easier to find common ground. Wishing you well, Durova 06:25, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The idea is kinda cute, but I'm not sure I'm open to it before there's a real change in on-wiki culture towards civility and following policy.

Thanks for thinking out of the box though. Jaakobou 07:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC) clarify Jaakobou 15:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

FYI

I've taken up the issue of your repeated admin- and block-shopping here.

Cheers, pedrito - talk - 29.04.2008 10:13

I saw it. I think it's kind of cute that you of all people accuse me of admin/block shopping. Jaakobou 10:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Your response

I was asking about bans here.Kitty53 (talk) 07:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

No. I'm asking for info. I'm not having any problems, I just want to learn more about Misplaced Pages!:)Kitty53 (talk) 08:59, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Sure, but mostly, I'm asking why people get banned.Kitty53 (talk) 18:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Blocking

Why do people get blocked on Misplaced Pages, anyway? Everytime I am told I'll be blocked for some reason, I feel threatened. Please respond on my talk page.Kitty53 (talk) 23:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

AE thread

I have closed Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement#Eleland issues persist. Please read the closing note. If you have any questions or if there any problems, please feel free to drop a line on my talk page or send me an email. Vassyana (talk) 02:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

blocked

You have been blocked for a period of 1 week. Please refer to this AN/I thread. -- FayssalF - 12:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I believe FaysselF violated WP:AGF on assertion of this block on me. * "talking about how other POVs are evil and yours is helping wiki neutrality as you put it?" - FayssalF, 14:02, 28 April 2008 * "i don't recall i saw you agreeing on something but i hope you do someday" FayssalF, 14:24, 28 April 2008 Comment - I did not say anyone's POV was evil and I certainly reached multiple agreements in my time on wiki. (Samples)

Further explanation on block istelf:
I've returned a disputed notice to Saeb Erekat (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)) one time while PalestineRememeberd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) called a Rama to make a tag-team revert for him.

My previous dispute resolution on said article included a recent MEDCAB I opened and also a request for an admin to mediate. Said admin agreed a dispute is clear.

I have not violated any of the Arbcom final decisions -- Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA#Final_decision -- in this dispute despite, recently, previous tag-teaming by ] (] · ]) and ] (] · ]) imposing their "wrong" version onto the page. Instead of edit warring, I added a "dispute" tag and pursued dispute resolution.

Suddenly I get blocked a week for once again, tag-teaming without ANY discussion -- see Saeb Erekat (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) -- by both PalestineRemmebered and Rama.

Next time when a tag-team ignores me and enforces their version, an admin may try and block me for a month for not violating any policy!

Disclaimer 1: Yes, PR was blocked also, but he breached policy and is under a last chance pre-indef block forced mentorship while I recently contributed some featured content. Rama was quickly unblocked by FayssalF.

Disclaimer 2: I was banned from Israel related articles for a week less than 2 months ago for a one time civility infraction (I don't have an incivility problem). I apologized and retracted my comment an hour and a half after it was made; received a topic ban still, and have not repeated my transgression.

I don't believe my activity to resolve the content on this article suggests that I'm being disruptive or in violation of Arbcom decisions and request an unblock. Jaakobou 15:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)|

Jaakobou (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

reason copied above as formatting broke template

Decline reason:

Unblock declined. discretionary sanctions appropriately implemented in this manner. "AGF is not a suicide pact" would apply here. — MBisanz 16:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Removed FayssalF related notes. Jaakobou 16:24, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

		The Special Barnstar
		Thank you for creating a Wiki Page on Haim Farhi. I always wanted to do it myself and your work made it easier for me to have the history of Haim Farhi known. AlainFarhi (talk) 16:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

FYI

I have made a proposal re your mentorship here --NSH001 (talk) 17:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Shnaim Ohazin

On 2 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Shnaim Ohazin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 17:13, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

E-mail

Whatever it is, I'm not unblocking you, if that's the purpose of talking to me.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

No no. I had no such intentions (asking an unblock). Anyways, I replied to you. Jaakobou 09:46, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

User page updates

Hi, I've copied your new barnstar to your user page. Not sure where you want the DYK to go; please advise. I know it bites to get blocked, but please treat this the way it's meant to work: as a break for reflection and a chance to gain better perspective, and to make adjustments. Meanwhile I'm looking forward to your next new article. Keep your chin up. Durova 14:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'll be making the adjustments. Jaakobou 05:32, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

You emailed me

What's up Jaakobou? I haven't been on Misplaced Pages for awhile. You wanted to talk to me? мirаgeinred سَراب ٭ (talk) 16:03, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a bit complex to explain. Mail me back if you can. Jaakobou 05:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for looking into it

You may find these pages to be useful as they document the actions of the previous sock puppets.

The sock puppet insists on trying to mention my personal information as well, note the edit comment. Most of these following edits are removed by Oversight There are a few more examples as well if you need them? Fnagaton 19:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, it doesn't look good for Multiplexor, but I'm trying to get to the bottom of this rather than just promote a block which will result in more and more socks. I'll wait a bit to see if he gives a proper response on his user page. Regardless of his response, I'm fairly certain Dmcdevit will "fix" this as soon as he's back on though so I wouldn't stress over this if I were you.

Cheers, Jaakobou 19:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I hope you find these other links helpful Misplaced Pages:Abuse reports/217.87.x.x and User:Fnagaton/SarenneSockPuppetReport. Unfortunately the modus operadni of this user is to switch to multiple new accounts when one becomes blocked, or to use Tor or hop around the now range blocked 217.87.x.x range of IPs.Fnagaton 20:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Fnagaton,

Mind my asking, but can you clarify on what you believe was the trigger for the initial personal attack and what you believe might be possible solutions for diffusing the situation. Jaakobou 20:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The user has been blocked multiple times over a long period and still keeps on inventing new accounts and ways to avoid the block. Looking at the first two edits that have "rvv" comments then the next two edits about reporting and "my friends" there is definite history with the sock so I wouldn't like to guess what goes on in some people's minds when they insist on being this disruptive to Misplaced Pages. Fnagaton 20:29, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Fnagaton,

Multiplexor has just stated "I don't intend to mention his realname."

Is this enough to diffuse the situation or was there anything more that must be resolved?

With respect, Jaakobou 21:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for trying to sort this out Jaakobou, but given that another edit appeared with my personal information, which was removed by Oversight, the user has been blocked . Fnagaton 07:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:Jaakobou&diff=prev&oldid=212053710

Copied from . (wikilink fixed) Jaakobou 07:43, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

	The Working Man's Barnstar
	Gratitude for the tireless efforts on the Wiki Page of CMKC. Especially knowing how busy you were, you were still able to help out; for the gracious efforts, I thought the "working man's barnstar" was the most suitable. Yonigs (talk) 15:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Media coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict (May 14, 2008)

Per this diff and this reversion of Media coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict:

Regarding the use of "abduct" versus "capture"... While I agree with you that "abduct" is the most accurate descriptor, I think "capture" is an accurate and more neutral descriptor. I would rather not drag Media coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict into a long and drawn out edit war over "abducted", "taken hostage", or "taken prisoner of war", when the accurate and neutral term "capture" can as easily suffice. Since Media coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict wikilinks to Gilad Shalit, I will leave it to the editors of that article to decide the appropriate wording. Also, because of the wikilink, the additional sources are superfluous -- thanks, though, for adding them.

Good day and good luck with your edits. ← Michael Safyan 20:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I can't say I agree completely with the "capture" terminology since the word "abduct" is used by high quality neutral sources -- I used 2: International Herald Tribune and CNN -- plus it was already accepted by Pedrito as NPOV and a proper descriptive. However, this issue is not really the topic of the article so I'll let this go for now so not to distract from the development of the newly re-written article - Good work btw. Jaakobou 20:37, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

5/15 DYK

On 15 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article CMKC Group, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford 22:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)