Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by FDR (talk | contribs) at 15:52, 19 August 2005. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Talk page archive

• Archive 1 (1 On Hitchens' denunciation:, 2 Birth Name?, 3 Doen NOBODY see the connection?, 4 Allende was assasinated, 5 I think I've said all I can, 6 Hollinger International, 7 Should we vote?, 8 Lack of Basic Facts, 9 Something is wrong, 10 Protected, 11 Apology on last edit summary, 12 persistence, 13 unprotected, 14 Mediation requested, 15 Introductory wording vote, 16 Vote, 17 Vote, 18 quick correction...., 19 ready for unprotection?, 20 Thoughts, 21 New discussion so I don't have to scroll up, 22 Dates, 23 Urine drinking, 24 Introduction, War Crimes, Hitchens, 25 Kissinger is not known for WAR CRIMES, 26 User:Trey Stone, 27 Edits, 28 Just Tell the Truth Has we Know It, 29 Totally Disputed and Why, 30 Update, 31 what about Henry Kissinger as the Antichrist?, 32 Kissinger the flaming homosexual, 33 My GD case, 34 new section: legal problems, 35 New page, 36 Archiving)

Heh, you archived everything! I ... didn't expect that. :D El_C 22:22, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, I wanted to preserve the edit history on the archive page, so I had to do a page move. Perhaps a clean talk page free of two years anger and resentment will cheer people up. Mackensen (talk) 01:23, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Now really, Mackensen. I don't know about you, but when I see something that seems wrong I edit it. Now if I'd known about htis conflict I would have checked the talk page and found this. Two messages. No indication at all that the introduction was being fought over. – ugen64 20:51, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Ugen64, Mackensen has decided to take a break from Misplaced Pages. I am hopeful that he will return soon. El_C 22:32, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

I know, he e-mailed me. – ugen64 00:45, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Ah, good, I didn't want you to take a lack of response on his part the wrong way. El_C 01:57, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Ugen64 has a point, and I have added the contents of the archive file to the link above. HTH -- Viajero | Talk 11:41, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, of course, how could he know. Mackensen just seemed so at peace though with the clean talk page. :) Anyway, now all that's left is linking each and everyone of these subsections to the acrhive! El_C 11:57, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

David Icke

Is it really necessary to include the section on David Icke's accusation that Kissinger is a shape-shifting lizard? This article seems to be to heavily slanted in favour of the accusations levelled against Kissinger and his legal problems. I think the political history section needs to be expanded and perhaps the legal problems given its own page.

I share the concern about Icke's outlandish statements, though for slightly different reasons. It's included in (and heads up) a section on serious charges laid at Kissinger's feet. Somewhat inappropriate and detracting I think. Better that it's relegated to a (pop cultural) footnote in the article. --Plumbago 16:20, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Blatant suppression of data

It is quite shocking that people will go to any lengths to cover up facts. Why for instance revert and in the process deleting the external links that show the facts? The transcripts surely were not a fiction of my imagination and it has appeared in press sources all over the world.

The recent blanket revert throws some people in poor light, after all I've tried to tone down any POV statements and cull the statements from the actual transcripts. Please read the official links and don't delete them in haste as with the recent edit.--Idleguy 06:55, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

i'm sorry for your shock, but the strategic support for the Pakistani regime can be noted without the POV language. the Nixon administration supported Pakistan in the war because of U.S. opposition to India (a Soviet ally) and general Cold War politics. considering the effects of the war, the case that U.S. policy was shortsighted, stupid, criminal, whatever, can be made, but this is not the place to make it. J. Parker Stone 06:56, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Don't try to keep readers in the dark. Why do you wish to delete references? Either you haven't read them or you don't want to accept the facts. Either way you shouldn't be reverting to your version. The rebuttals section of the article included in your version of the edit says "no evidence" which is not true. evidence has been declassified and I suggest you read them before you make up your mind. appropriate changes were made also explaining from the Horse's mouth. i.e. Kissinger himself. What makes you think I would be putting Kissinger's quote in George W. Bush's article. Obviously it goes into an article on Kissinger.

If you feel that there is a POV, I again advise you to read history and the Bangladesh Liberation War here and elsewhere for more details and the "tilt" of the US towards Yahya Khan. Modificiation of words is fine with me, but blanket reverts that entirely delete facts or the newly obtained information amounts to stubborness.

If you wish to continue this then I'd be forced to quote word for word from Kissigner on the apology and the reason behind why he made the incompetent decisions he did. Surely then it would not be a POV statement since such a statement comes from the person on whom the article is about.--Idleguy 07:10, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

i apologize, i only saw the first edit regarding the military dictatorship. and you're right on the facts (though I hadn't heard about the China rationale before.)

that reminds me that that entire section needs to be seriously adjusted, considering this allegation-rebuttal thing takes up so much space -- they can be presented in a far less lengthy fashion. i don't really know what i was thinking when i put in that layout. J. Parker Stone 07:26, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

It also exposed the chilling fact that Kissinger was eager to ignore the crisis in East Pakistan and support an oppressive dictatorship just to have friendly relations with China.

This is an opinion–several, in fact. It opines that Kissinger was eager to ignore a crisis, and to support a dictatorship which was oppressive. It opines that this fact was "chilling". This is not NPOV. I'm not in a position to read transcripts, which are primary material in any case. A citation for these claims would be wonderful. Mackensen (talk) 19:51, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I would like to remind you that you are not reading the current version where the statement you quote has been modified to show a more unbiased version of facts. As for the references, pl. read the last reference mentioned in the article http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/ that summarises everything for easy reading. Thanx.--Idleguy 07:42, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Current intro

It's better than when I first came across this article, but I personally feel that Kissinger's accomplishments should be separated from what he is criticized for. I might be partly to blame for the current style -- I can't recall all my past edits on this page. But in the '70s and after the end of the Nixon/Ford admins., he was generally regarded as an extremely skillful diplomat who had negotiated the end to the Vietnam War and made the breakthrough in China. I don't recall learning of his Yom Kippur War dealings in as much detail as the aforementioned two events, which he's very well-known for. (oh, and forgot to mention détente, of course -- d'oh)

Of course, the Nixon administration in general (not specifically Kissinger) was criticized for expanding the war into Cambodia by the antiwar Left and plenty of other Americans. But it was only until recently, with the declassified documents and all, that Kissinger's involvement in Chile, East Timor, Argentina, and Pakistan became a large focus of criticism. I would suggest that we begin with a paragraph referencing the opening of China, the end of the Vietnam War, and possibly the end of the Yom Kippur War, then follow with a paragraph like "However, Kissinger has come under fire recently for..." and then reference Hitchens and the "war crimes." any suggestions or comments'd be greatly appreciated. J. Parker Stone 08:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

As I did on the Ronald Reagan article, I have created a sandbox for this page if anyone has any suggestions. J. Parker Stone 00:22, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I read somewhere that Henry Kissinger was a Soviet spy.