Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 60.42.252.205 (talk) at 18:27, 12 June 2008 (→Caspian Blue: de-gendered statement for the sakes of political correctness). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

• WP:ANI
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This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.

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Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage. (archives, search)

• Voluntary RfAs after resignation
• Allowing page movers to enable two-factor authentication
• Rewriting the guideline Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers
• Should comments made using LLMs or chatbots be discounted or even removed?

User:SlimVirgin removing image problem tags

Long thread over 50k moved to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/User:SlimVirgin.' D.M.N. (talk)

Tendentious editing by User:Andyvphil

Long thread over 50k moved to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/User:Andyvphil.' D.M.N. (talk)

Various irregularities in AfD for Allegations of Israeli Apartheid

I think I'll write a poem about this.

Roses are red

Violets are blue

This discussion is over

Even though this doesn't rhyme - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

How about Let's do something new! for the last line? It rhymes and God knows, it's needed... -- ChrisO (talk) 01:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

user:AvantVenger will need a close eye and/or a longer block

AvantVenger (talk · contribs)

See user's response to being blocked for gross incivility. (And I'm talking gross incivility, e.g. after having a relatively polite Wikiquette alert filed regarding him, his first comment at the WQA ended with "you can all go to HELL!") Maybe he just needs to cool down, but either this block needs extended, or somebody needs to be waiting tomorrow at 08:34 to make sure he is actually calmed down. --Jaysweet (talk) 15:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Instead of laying on more heat, I left a friendly note with some links. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

If it comes down to a re-block, we can cross that bridge when we get there; for the time being, I believe de-escalation seems more appropriate. It's difficult for some users to quickly get into the "wiki way," but we should do what we can to nudge those users along. – Luna Santin (talk) 02:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Sadly, no de-escalation will be helpful here. I now believe that AvantVenger is the real-world person Charles Collins <> - who appears to be the indefinitely-banned User:Fraberj. My evidence is here User_talk:AvantVenger#Is_AvantVenger_really_Charles_Collins.3F. SteveBaker (talk) 04:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

His/her response to Gwen Gale's helpful note... It starts off promising enough, but the last several K do not exactly demonstrate a desire to contribute constructively ;) This was after several hours to cool down.

Not for nothing, but if a person is responding to multiple warnings in a row with capital letter obscenities, as AvantVenger did yesterday prior to his/her block, I think the problems are a little more serious than just "nudging" them towards the "wiki way" ;) I'm fine with close monitoring with no prejudice for or against a future block purely as a matter of principle, but realistically we have to recognize that de-escalation is incredibly unlikely to succeed. In my mind, the main reason not to block now is because the user might just go away on their own, on then we avoid giving the impression that Misplaced Pages is ruled with an iron fist. :) --Jaysweet (talk) 12:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

As you say, there's only so far we can "nudge" someone. ;) I noticed they seemed to calm down significantly, last night, after I made a brief attempt at listening rather than chiding... but then I see we're back at full blast, today. I had previously wondered if the user might be a sockpuppet or somehow personally involved in the off-wiki dispute; Steve's post lends credence to both possibilities. – Luna Santin (talk) 13:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Geez, when someone gets blocked for breaking a policy then they keep doing the same thing then we extend the block. This whole idea that extending a block when someone is uncivil in reaction to a block is somehow unhelpful makes the unreasonable assumption that the point of the block is to help the person. It is not, it is to prevent them from continuing the disruptive behavior.

If someone gets nasty when blocked, then warn then, if they get nastier, then extend the block. If that makes them even nastier("YOU ARE THIEVES! YOU ARE PIGS!(repeat 20x)") then perhaps they should not be here. We coddle people who act nasty around here, thinking if we hold their hands they will suddenly reform. More often than they reform they just make life harder on people. I have seen more people give up chronic incivility in the face of ever increasing blocks than I ever had with hand holding and putting up with violations. We are here to write an encyclopedia, not to give behavioral therapy. _{1 != 2} 13:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

On the other hand, I believe their block is expired now, so maybe they just want away.

For the record, I am pretty sure that in my time on Misplaced Pages, I have still never asked for a block or extension of a block on a user where it didn't eventually happen (on a few rare occasions, such as this one, a "let's-wait-and-see" approach was taken, but it still resulted in a block). Let's see if I keep my perfect track record! ;) ;) --Jaysweet (talk) 13:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

That is a good point. The let's wait and see approach most often yields "more of the same". _{1 != 2} 13:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Oops, he's back. From today:

• "Go back under your rock where you belong and stay there with the rest of you stinking putrid liberals.", "Nefarious cowards!"
• More conspiracy allegations ("Who are you working for?")
• Another "go to hell",

I mean, it could be worse, he at least seems to be making some attempt at dialog, at least most of the time (despite edit summaries like ). Normally I would try to address this at WP:WQA, but his response there was "GO TO HELL", so I am not optimistic. If that's what people feel should be done, though, I'll volunteer to do it. --Jaysweet (talk) 14:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

More of the same, who could have guessed. Oh and you missed "nefarious cowards!". I think you should just go ahead Jay, clearly not blocking this person isn't solving the problem, so blocking is really all that is left. _{1 != 2} 14:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

1 == 2, me != admin :) Anyway, EyeSerene (talk · contribs) appears to be on the case, so I am inclined to let him/her deal with it as he/she sees fit. --Jaysweet (talk) 14:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I thought you were. _{1 != 2} 15:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

It's really clear that the more you look into the past posts and behavior of User:Fraberj that he and User:AvantVenger are the same person. Fraberj has an indefinite ban - AvantVenger is simply a sock and should get the exact same treatment. I've filed a complaint at Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Fraberj (2nd). Can we please just stick an indefinite ban on AvantVenger and get on with writing an encyclopedia? SteveBaker (talk) 14:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, between the incivility, the soap boxing, and sock puppetry to push a point of view, and the fact that he is evading a block all points to the need to block this fellow again. _{1 != 2} 15:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Just got online for today, reviewed the happenings I missed, and took a longer few moments to review the evidence presented at Steve's SSP case; currently I've blocked AvantVenger indefinitely. Any objection? – Luna Santin (talk) 21:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Only that you are a putrid liberal, a nefarious coward, and a patent thief. ;p But no, I cannot imagine any positive contributions coming from this user in the future. --Jaysweet (talk) 21:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Outing on my userpage

Hi,

I wanted to listen fully to a user who was critical of Baggini. This editor seems to now have more against SlimVirgin that the subject of the article. I assumed good faith and was kind to this editor, but he is now postings about speculations about SV's real life identity. I was aware of these speculations before, but I don't want them on my talk page.

I'm asking admin actions, and perhaps these things to be over-sighted from my userpage, if possible. I feel little inclined to continue discuss the topic with this editor now. I would appreciate if someone not involved with SlimVirgin took care of this as there are accusations of cabalism, etc.

Thank you, Merzul (talk) 19:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I EC'd with SlimVirgin in deleting the talk page to remove the revision. The user in question, Wikigiraffes (talk · contribs), was indefblocked by SlimVirgin. While I concur wholeheartedly with the block, it may have been better for SV to wait for an uninvolved admin to handle it. That said, I agree with and second her actions in this matter. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 19:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I presume someone has requested oversight; if no, I'll handle it in a bit. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 19:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

While not a fan of involved blockers or indef's, the user in question seemed to have earned this the old fashioned way (repeated poor behavior). --Rocksanddirt (talk) 20:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

There was no need for SV to wait for an uninvolved admin - wholly appropriate to indef block Wikigiraffes for that. Neıl 龱 09:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. This was an obviously appropriate block, no waiting necessary. GlassCobra 00:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Blocks by CSCWEM

I am concerned by the lengths of some blocks that CSCWEM has issued recently. He does not seem to be editing regularly, but has returned to issue some very long blocks against IP addresses with histories that do not seem to warrant them. I have raised this here, but have not received a response. I am tempted to reverse some of these blocks but also suggest that this is something which may need to be addressed if it continues. I understand from AuburnPilot that this has been raised to CSCWEM frequently, but that the blocks continue without any clear justification. Any input would be appreciated. Cheers TigerShark (talk) 20:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

For reference: Can't sleep, clown will eat me (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Toddst1 (talk) 20:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I definitely think that 3, 6, 12 month blocks should be reserved for those persistent IP vandals that have already received the customary 24h, week-or-two and 1 month blocks. xenocidic (talk) 21:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I left a comment about these blocks on CSCWEM's talk page, but of course received no response; this isn't the first time I've had to ask him to respect the blocking policy. The most troubling of blocks are the ones that occurred without warnings, hours after an editor stopped editing, or those where CSCWEM changed another admin's block without discussion. Hodge04 (talk · contribs) was blocked on 7 May 2008 for one month, in what was already an excessive block, and CSCWEM unblocked and reblocked the account indefinitely without contacting the other admin (and no further abuse from the editor). It needs to be made clear to CSCWEM that his actions are inappropriate, and the lengths of his blocks are excessive. - auburnpilot talk 21:15, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Without input from CSCWEM I can only make comments, with the application of liberal AGF. An indef block of a one post vandal, after the expiry of the initial month block, indicates a history that is not apparent from the talkpage to me. The block summary is not exactly comprehensive either, but as noted CSCWEM was executing a great many blocks in a short period. I note in the one example that there was no request for unblock/howl of indignation, sometimes (but not always, of course) and indication of a bad faith account being abandoned upon discovery.

However, I should prefer a response from CSCWEM and would enquire if anyone has mailed them to make them aware of this discussion/these concerns. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

In all fairness, do we really expect an editor who replaces an entire body of text with "YOU SUCK" to really constructive in the future? Granted that this is the sole edit of the account, but I have yet to run into a good-faith account who started off the bat with vandalism. On the flip side, it would be nice to see CSCWEM reply here. seicer | talk | contribs 02:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

And if that were the only questionable block, nobody would be complaining, but this is a recurring problem. For example, the last time I had to point out CSCWEM's inappropriate blocks, I made a list of ~250 registered accounts seen here and here (note all have email disabled as default). That was several months ago, and he's still making bad blocks - auburnpilot talk 02:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

• As a note, CSCWEM doesn't answer his talkpage. The only reason it isn't 100 screens long is because I set up the archivebot awhile back, maybe even the archives themselves I don't remember. Avruch * 22:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

An admin making questionable blocks who doesn't answer his talkpage, not exactly ideal is it? Maybe it's time they gave up the mop, as it seems it's all too much trouble for them. RMHED (talk) 23:22, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

"Users are responsible for the editorial and administrative actions they undertake, and must be willing and prepared to discuss the reasons for their actions in a timely manner". Daniel (talk) 01:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

All I can say is that I have asked CSCWEM a few times to cease and desist his questionable blocks, and like others had received no response. I'm all for the community forcing an answer out of him. KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 01:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Is he editing from an alternate account or something? He just has an incredible number of logged actions for someone with zero edits. But I guess it really doesn't matter - if he's issuing blocks and not stopping to talk about it, that's a big problem. I support a block until such time as he is willing to discuss his actions. --B (talk) 02:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

In all fairness, I am with the several other editors who have asked politely and have been rebuffed (I believe I may have had the same experience at ANI over the issue). AGF does not mean willful ignorance in the face of repeated actions that show otherwise. I strongly suggest an RFC, regardless of a block; I will sign it myself if someone opens it. The Evil Spartan (talk) 02:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a number of users are concerned, here; an RfC sounds appropriate. – Luna Santin (talk) 02:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) He has not edited a single page since 11 April. I have not checked deleted contribs, but expect them to be similar. He has, however, continued to perform blocks up until 28 May. This is problematic from a procedural basis, simply because he is blocking users withotu actially templating them to let them know when, why, and for how long they are blocked. Some of the blocks are problematic, as noted above - for example, do we block IPs for two years? Most of the edits look like tests and vandalism, so block away, whatever, and I am familiar with escalating blocks... but two years? UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 02:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I have randomly clicked on some of his blocks. A lot of them are just factually incorrect (ie, saying "repeated vandalism to various articles" when the IP only had one edit). This block of a US Department of Justice IP is slightly troubling and even though that isn't on the list of sensitive IP addresses, it's still a darned good idea to put some diligence into it. He has not blocked anyone since May 28, although there are frequently holes in his logs, so that may not mean that he has stopped for good. I think an RFC is appropriate, but regardless of that, I think that he needs to understand (and I will leave this message on his talk page) that if he makes another questionable block, he will be blocked as a preventative measure unless/until he is willing to discuss his actions. --B (talk) 02:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This address falls within the 149.101.0.0/16 - United States Department of Justice block as noted on the sensitive IP addresses, and also on the IP talk page. Kevin (talk) 03:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Oops ... I missed that one. --B (talk) 03:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This reminds me that i had occassion to contact CSCWEM in April with regard to a spam block he made without any warning on a user who had made three edits. Sure, the guy was adding links to his own website but he was never warned at all and also had the email disabled. He said he sent CSCWEM 4-5 emails directly over a six month period but all were ignored and eventually he sent a fax to the Foundation. I raised it was CSWEM on his talk page (User_talk:Can't_sleep,_clown_will_eat_me/Archive_2#DoctorGs) but, like everyone else, was ignored. I don't think people should be using admin tools at all if they are not prepared to respond to messages from users and fellow administrators and I am concerned that he seemed to be routinely disabling people's email for no apparent reason (I haven't checked to see if he still does that so it might not be an issue anymore). Sarah 03:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Given the lack of a response and interest by CSWEM, and the concerns raised, I think that the next step is to file an RFC? Has anyone tried IRC to see if he is still on? seicer | talk | contribs 03:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Apparently, the last time CSCWEM actually replied on his talk page was over 5 months ago. Needless to say, this is concerning if he is still using the tools while ignoring users asking him questions. I hope he will reply somewhere to clear this up. VegaDark (talk) 07:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I love CSCWEM who did a great job back in the days, but I must admit that I am concerned by the blocks he placed on 28 May. He can't really be using his admin tools and be unwilling to communicate. -- lucasbfr 07:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Let me ask a silly question here - has any checkuser reading this looked to make sure this isn't a compromised account? CSCWEM was one of our best anti-vandal admins. --B (talk) 11:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The whole "Repeated vandalism to various articles" phrase is one that he's been using for years. I have to say that none of this is new. CSCWEM has been blocking single-edit IPs for "Repeated vandalism" for as long as I can remember - and I've been around a while. Why is this only a problem now? It seemed like his actions were quietly accepted back then so what happened? —Wknight94 (talk) 11:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

He communicated before. If he was misusing block summaries, that was always a problem. Was it ever brought to ANI bringing wide community attention to it? --B (talk) 11:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) I highly doubt that. This seems like an admin who has burned out and lost some of his better judgement because of it. That happens. More importantly, I don't see how an RfC would help. CSCWEM should be blocked indefinitely to be forced into talking, as admins especially are required to do. An RfC would just take time and lead to no clear conclusion while the problem persists... It reminds me of a commercial I saw long ago where a group of bystanders form a committee to solve the problem of a man sinking into quicksand right next to them. Some problems need a quick (and obvious) solution. (I won't block him, because I have to go to bed and don't have the time to deal with the fallout right now.) Grandmasterka 11:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Let me ask a stupid question, then. CSCWEM does not edit talk pages, or any other kind of page for that matter - that's part of the problem. Would a block have any effect at all? I mean, technically, would a block prevent him from blocking other users and continuing just as he has been? UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 12:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The heavy-handed blocks of accounts I have zero problem with. There is no reason to preserve an account with only vandal edits, and if the user wants to become productive they can create a new account (not the same situation for an account with some productive edits and some vandal edits, in which case they may wish to legitimately preserve their contrib history after apologizing for and ceasing the aberrant behavior).

The heavy-handed blocks of IPs are not as cool, especially with the misleading block summaries. If he knew for sure they were static IPs and said as much in the summary, that wouldn't be so disturbing. But, as others pointed out, this behavior has been tolerated in the past, and could be tolerable now.

The failure to communicate, on the other hand, is absolutely unacceptable for an admin. "Ignore the man behind the curtain" is not my understanding of how adminship functions here on Misplaced Pages. Admins have a responsibility to do more than just play around in their little corner and ignore everything else. I mean, could you imagine if there was an RfA today and the candidate said, "I want the mop so I can block people, but I don't intend to help out anywhere else, do any sort of conflict resolution, and I can't really be bothered to answer messages on my Talk page."? Would there be a single support !vote?!

I remember several months ago seeing CSCWEM's edits all the time when I was doing vandal patrol, and I very much respected his quick response time, tirelessness, and willingness to get tough on vandal-only accounts. He was a great help to the project. But if he has altogether ceased communication with other admins, we can't have that, regardless of his other contributions. Sadly, I think I see a bit of rouge on this clown.  ;( --Jaysweet (talk) 12:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, I don't see much difference between now and the last couple years except he doesn't respond at all any more. But he rarely responded back then in my experience. And someone would bring him up here and a few people would hollar but none of their records were spotless either and CSCWEM generally helps far more than hinders in his vandal-fighting efforts and the whole thing would disappear. I guess this is just a new guard now, eh? —Wknight94 (talk) 13:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

But that's the whole point, isn't it? He doesn't respond at all to, well, anything. And that's simply not acceptable, just as it wasn't acceptable a couple of years ago. So in that regard, nothing has changed. Additionally, I don't think there's any point in blocking him, as admins can continue to use their tools while being blocked. At least it was like that a year ago or so, so maybe that's changed by now. --Conti|✉ 13:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Maybe. But I see a big difference between "slow responses" and "no responses".

Also, maybe there is a reason why the "new guard" values dialog so much more highly than the old guard. The fact is, Misplaced Pages is accumulating a very negative public image because of the legions of people who show up, violate some policy, get reverted/warned/blocked, and it is never adequately explained to them what they did wrong. I have a close friend, for instance, who is going for a Master's degree in political science, and I know she has vast knowledge of The Federalist Papers, for which many of the articles on Misplaced Pages are very short (and sometimes misleading) stubs. But I am having trouble enticing her to contribute, because of an earlier experience on Misplaced Pages where she got reverted multiple times and it was never adequately explained to her what the problem was. (In fairness, she was doing a hatchet job on an acquaintance in another article in WP:COATRACK fashion, but she made the common new editor mistake of thinking that because it was "true", it was okay to add)

Let's say CSCWEM blocks a vandal, and the vandal doesn't understand what they did wrong, so they ask. If nobody explains it, they'll tell all their friends, "Yeah, I tried to edit Misplaced Pages but some guy called "ScaryClown" or something banned me from the site after like two minutes! Those guys are jerks and won't let me in their club!"

I was stunned the other day when I complained to my wife (who has a handful of edits here, and is a frequent contributor to our city's Wiki) that some people view Misplaced Pages as a "cabal of nerds who won't let you in their club unless you memorize a bunch of arcane acronyms" and she said, "Oh yeah, it's totally like that." And this is someone who is PRO-Misplaced Pages!

We have no shortage of vandal fighters. What we need in admins these days are liaisons to the public, ambassadors for Misplaced Pages who can articulately explain what we are all about and help people to understand how this place works.

As valuable as CSCWEM's vandal-fighting work is, there are at least a dozen or two dozen people clamoring to take his place whom I am sure could do just as good a job. If we are really in a shortage of vandal-fighters with mops, then start allowing RfAs for people with weak mainspace contribs. Seriously, how many RfAs have you seen get turned down because "We are sure you would use the mop responsibly, and your vandal patrolling work is good, but you just haven't done enough work building an encyclopedia. Come back when you have a few thousand more edits and have created a few articles."? If losing CSCWEM's vandal-fighting prowess is really a priority, that shouldn't be reason to decline an RfA, should it?

I think those declined RfAs communicate the message loud and clear: Misplaced Pages has enough cops. What we need now are ambassadors and mediators. --Jaysweet (talk) 13:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course I can counter your argument by saying that today's Misplaced Pages has a whole new culture of subtle POV/fringe/agenda pushers and that more policing is necessary rather than less. But then you could counter with stories of overly-paranoid admins who blocked legitimate editors who left forever because of it, etc., etc. If someone can point out especially egregious blocks or diffs (preferably in an RFC or RFAR or the like), please do. Otherwise, I view CSCWEM as one extreme end of a spectrum which also has an extreme opposite end somewhere (probably partaking in this discussion). —Wknight94 (talk) 14:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

That's an entirely different type of policing, though. If CSCWEM is working to combat the subtle pov-warriors, then I retract everything I just said! Anyway, Ncmvocalist has a point (below), so I won't drop another couple kilobytes of essay here ;) --Jaysweet (talk) 14:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no point discussing this here further - please take it to RFC or arbitration. Ncmvocalist (talk) 13:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This is an issue that the community is capable of handling. One of three things will happen - (1) he will return as an active user, respond to those who express concerns, and edit/use the admin tools normally; (2) he will never make a logged action again; or (3) he will continue this unusual pattern of blocking. In the first two cases, the problem is solved and there is nothing to be gained by arbitration. In the third case, there would be near unanimous consent for an indefinite block until such time as he agrees not to take those actions and if he violates that by unblocking himself (or, I've never tried it, but if you still have access to special:blockip while blocked and he uses it), there would be unanimous consent for an emergency desysop. Either way, I don't see anything to arbitrate - the problem will work itself out. --B (talk) 17:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

In re: Blocked admins blocking other users, admins can block and unblock themselves or others while blocked from editing, per my extensive research (i.e. I tried it.) So, unfortunately, a block in this circumstance would not be effective. Given that CSCWEM has ceased blocking/admin actioning, I would recommend we strongly urge him to discuss the blocks and concerns before acting again, and that we take a failure to do so as an indication that arbitration (the only procedural means by which a user may be desysopped) is warranted. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 17:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

• It is with regret that I am starting to believe that perhaps opening an ArbCom to have CSCWEM desysopped pending a reasonable explanation of their actions may be the only way to resolve this. A RfC without the participation of the subject party is a hollow process, and is then only a step toward ArbCom; so that delay may as well be dispensed with.

I am extremely reluctant to take this step, since CSCWEM was the type of admin who inspired me in requesting the sysop bit and further help the encyclopedia, and I remember the helpful and invigorating presence he had when he was a frequent contributor to the noticeboards. However, I will make the RfAR myself if required, as I will attempt as far as possible to request the removal of the flag to be non-prejudiced in that CSCWEM may have admin rights returned by application to the Committee with a reasonable explanation and an undertaking to be more communicative in future. If there is a consensus for such a request I shall then do it tomorrow. LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think desysopping is in order, but maybe a temporary ban from blocking would be a good idea - until they can prove they can block appropriately...... Dendodge .. Talk 20:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Or maybe desysopping UNTIL we get an explanation, to prevent further such blocks...... Dendodge .. Talk 20:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I think you have to open an RfArb to do that, i.e. I don't think there is any process by which someone can be even "temporarily desysopped" without an RfArb.

I reluctantly endorse an RfArb, unless somebody has a better idea about how to get CSCWEM's attention. The aggressive blocking is probably tolerable, but the refusal to communicate at all is not. (In my humble non-admin opinion, that is :) )--Jaysweet (talk) 20:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

• When an admin becomes this jaded it's a shame they don't have the self awareness to just ask to be desysopped for their own good and the good of the project. They could then take a nice long break without the temptation to log in and take admin actions that will likely prove controversial. RMHED (talk) 21:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I know we would have to open an ArbCom case, but I think one's in order (in fact, I endorse it more the more I think about it), I'll give it about an hour and, unless someone stops me, I'll open one...... Dendodge .. Talk 21:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

There have been no blocks since May 28, and no contributions since April 1. What about we notify him of this thread (already happened, of course) and ask him not to do any more blocks until he is willing to discuss them? We don't need to desysop him for that, just ask politely. If he starts blocking again without any kind of discussion, then ArbCom might be the way to go, IMO. --Conti|✉ 21:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Sounds Ok to me, I'll just mention that on the user's talk page and then - we wait...... Dendodge .. Talk 21:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I will have retired for the evening in an hours time, so I shall not be around to help as I would like. I intended to open a RfAR "tomorrow" (UK time) as it would allow any good arguments/suggestions to be made here in the meantime, as in this case it would be best if it was as uncontested a request as possible. However, if you wish to proceed I would only ask that you frame the request as an "unprejudiced desysop", pending clarification of the communities concerns. I feel the Committee and the community will better support the action if it is understood that CSCWEM may apply for re-instatement along with an reasonable explanation of both their actions and their lack of commucation. This would be my approach, anyhow. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

(reply to Dendodge) Communication is exactly the problem. It appears people have been waiting, and nothing happens. I agree (partly) with Ncmvocalist, it is time to act - but as considerately as possible. I am still intending to open a RfAR in 20+ hours if nobody has acted before, or has a better idea for resolving this. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Communication, communication, communication - but we don't know if he's even around now. He's done nothing in over a week. How about wait to see if he ever becomes active again, then prod him for an answer. He may be on vacation now! I don't know if Arbcom would even look at a case under these circumstances. There's really no particular hurry so wait until he returns - if he ever does - to file an Arbcom case. —Wknight94 (talk) 21:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There's no urgency, since CSCWEM hasn't blocked anyone in about two weeks now. If the blocks and the non-communication resume, I'm all for an RfAR, tho. --Conti|✉ 21:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

If he's reading this I would urge CSCWEM to ask to be desysopped, no stigma should be attached to this, quite the opposite, such an action I'm sure would be applauded. Take a good few months off and when you're ready to resume communication with the community ask to be resysopped. RMHED (talk) 21:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course, ArbCom may totally agree with you and Wknight94 - but we won't know unless we ask. I would prefer to be turned down than to be reminded it is not good practice to lock the stable door afterwards... LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we should wait, but I was acting on (the) consensus (at the time). I'd be more than happy to have a RFAR ASAP...... Dendodge .. Talk 21:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

RFC

I do not know about a request for arbitration. It may be premature, may be not. However, I have started writing an RFC (would be userspace, but someone else created the page): Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Can't sleep, clown will eat me. I cannot possibly hope to complete it with diffs or analysis (I am not good at writing, and I forget stuff anyway). All others, please add and post in the meantime. I will sign on a later date; contact me in the rare possibility that no one else will sign it. The Evil Spartan (talk) 23:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

As of right now, he has no logged actions in the last two weeks. So there is no evidence that the dispute has failed to be resolved. If he issues another block, then it becomes a problem, but as of right now, this RFC is uncertifiable and I would strongly suggest waiting until there is evidence that this dispute has not been resolved at this point. --B (talk) 12:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Those who are urging restraint are right - no blocks issued since June 11, there's a note on his talk page, leave it st that unless something changes. Neıl 龱 13:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the last block was late on 28 May, actually - so it's even less urgent. Agree with holding off a bit. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 13:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Coming to this entire discussion late, & entirely disinterested ("disinterested" as in I will not directly benefit from its outcome), I'm concurring with the opinion that CSCWEM grew disillusioned with Misplaced Pages, went thru a "ban them all & let God sort it out" phase, then left. I'd even go a little further & speculate that he possibly left because no one noticed his aberrant behavior until now. (That does seem to be an obvious form of Wikisuicide. And FWIW his user page does mention that he is on Wikibreak, although that announcement seems to have been originally written last November.) In short, he's very likely gone. Now if someone wants to place an indef bock on his account to force him to explain his actions if/when he returns, well I'm not going to revert that -- but I believe the effort would be pointless. The same with an RfC or opening a case with the ArbCom. However, CSCWEM has listed a number of ways to contact him on his user page -- has anyone reached out to him for his side of the story? -- llywrch (talk) 16:47, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Zachary Jaydon

Clarification : primary problem is at The Mickey Mouse Club, not Zachary Jaydon itself.Kww (talk) 00:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm here to seek input about what steps are appropriate. User:TragedyStriker (whose signature reads "Skyler Morgan", so don't get confused by that) has a pretty single-minded contribution history: the inclusion of every detail of Zachary Jaydon's career in Misplaced Pages. He has been accused more than once of including details of Jaydon's career that are counter-factual, specifically the claim that Zachary Jaydon was a cast member on The Mickey Mouse Club, a claim he has been making for nearly a year. Editors of the article have consulted two works that claim to provide a complete list, The Wonderful World of Disney Television: A Complete History, by Bill Cotter. New York: Hyperion (1997) and Disney A to Z: The Updated Official Encyclopedia, Dave Smith, Hyperion, ISBN 0-7868-6391-9, and have found no Zachary Jaydon. Editors have scanned the credits of the YouTube copyright violations, and found no trace of Jaydon in the credits. The only sources that list Jaydon on the MMC are IMDB and another "edited by user contribution" site.
After a lull of several weeks, TragedyStriker included the following:

• ] (Seasons 1-7)<ref>Stevens, K: "The ALL-NEW Mickey Mouse Club!", pages 33-36. The Disney Channel Magazine, April, 1989</ref><ref>Venable, B: "MMC Rocks The Planet", pages 16-17. The Disney Channel Magazine, June-July, 1992</ref><ref>Stanza, M: "MMC, The Album", pages 14-19. The Disney Channel Magazine, May, 1993</ref>

A nice set of paper references, but, unfortunately, nearly impossible to verify. I live on a Dutch-speaking island in South America, so our local library hasn't been eager to stock house magazines from American cable children's networks. I've put out requests for people to look it up via e-mails to editors on the article, postings on the reliable sources noticeboard, and the talk-page for the article. So far, no one has been able to physically obtain a copy of this information to validate it. Accordingly, User:Saratoga Sam,User:C.Fred, and myself have been reverting this information, until someone can physically validate this source or TragedyStriker can pony up some credible scans. TragedyStriker has been blocked once for 3RR for this, and socks seem to be involved as well (sadly enough, on both sides of the debate: this, this and this seem suspicious, but here we have an editor with one edit created two minutes before that one edit, and he is removing Zachary).
So, my real question ... what's appropriate behaviour in a situation like this? If Tragedy never comes up with the scans, and no one ever finds a copy of this magazine, can we just keep blocking the addition of the information? Or do others think that our supply of good faith should come in larger bottles?
Kww (talk) 22:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

There is a blog post out there that I won't link to with a lot of allegations about Mr. Jaydon which indicates that he also goes by the name of Skyler Morgan (you can find the blog posting if you Google Mr. Jaydon's name). I am not making any claims one way or the other, but the blog posting is worth reading if anyone wants to delve into this. Corvus cornix_talk 23:11, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

It's also worthing noting that there was already a consensus deletion of this article: ]. Corvus cornix_talk 23:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

That was overridden in the second deletion review. Most people don't deny the existence of Zachary Jaydon, and his verifiable accomplishments can be seen as sufficient to warrant an article.Kww (talk) 23:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

We have a problem - I don't find a single mention of a "Zachary Jaydon" in any of the references provided (, , , , , , . IMDB is not a reliable source, as it is created by submission (and this ref uses the IMDB list as its source, and still only lists Z Jaydon as an "uncredited extra"). The only references on the entire list of article references that actually mention Zachary Jaydon are his own MySpace site, and IMDB (which is unreferenced). And not even these mention his puprorted "writing of songs that have sold over 30 million copies worldwide". I have a very strong feeling we have being BS'd by a hoaxer/self-publicist/fraud, and a bunch of people at AFD have fallen for it. Nominated for AFD here: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Zachary Jaydon (3rd nomination) Neıl 龱 14:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm on the fence as to whether we are discussing existence fraud or resume inflation, but the listed birth name in the article is "Jaydon D. Paull", and the ASCAP source does validate work being done under that name.
Kww (talk) 16:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, this - of the three songs on that list that were "recorded" by notable artists, we'll pick one as an example. "Be There", as an example, is listed as being released by NSync. I can't find any song they ever released entitled "Be There". The reference given in the article for this has no mention of such a song. They did have a B-side on called "Are You Gonna Be There" on No Strings Attached ('N Sync album), but this Google search is telling: . Neıl 龱 16:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Following a lot of hunting around by various people, it's looking like a blatant hoax, and the AFD is fast snowballing towards a delete. Neıl 龱 20:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Georgian article vandal

A vandal with the IP 68.81.195.69 is daily vandalizing articles having to do with Georgia. He or she is changes mostly speaker counts or inhabitant numbers, sometimes only slightly, without giving a source. I've had quite an edit&revert war with him, as I thought after some time he'd stop anyway. He didn't. That person is getting very annoying, so I hope someone can block him now. Thanks! — N-true (talk) 23:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

He has not edited past your final warning (at 23:17 UTC on 10 June). Let us know if he does so. EdJohnston (talk) 23:22, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed he did now, as expected. He vandalized again the Georgian language article and also messed up another article about a Brasilian football player or something like that. I reverted both. Enough to block him now? — N-true (talk) 23:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, he is now blocked for one week, since he is deliberately introducing subtle errors to articles, and he won't respond on Talk. EdJohnston (talk) 01:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The CAMERA lobbying effort may be on again. Maybe.

This is more of a heads-up than a request for action. Today we have three anon editors engaged in somewhat aggressive editing on some highly-contentious Israel-related articles that had been quiet for a while.

• 70.181.148.148 (talk · contribs) a/k/a Wikifan12345 (talk · contribs) - started AfD #8 on Allegations of Israeli Apartheid. (This matter is covered in an incident above.)
• 24.62.5.76 (talk · contribs) - editing CAMERA to add Gabriel Ini's (CAMERA staffer and banned user Gni (talk · contribs)) comments to the press on the CAMERA/Wikipedia controversy.
• 128.252.174.116 (talk · contribs) - edited If Americans Knew to insert very negative statements about organization's board members. (Many edits; see contribs.) Article now semi-protected and worst items reverted per WP:BLP.

This bears watching. CAMERA may be making another try. It could just be a coincidence, but the classic line "Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action" seems relevant. --John Nagle (talk) 04:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if this has anything to do with CAMERA in particular, but there has been a definite uptick in IPs and new / single-purpose account activity promoting a "pro-Israel" agenda on a relatively small subset of pages, esp. Muhammad al-Durrah, of late. Probably bears a little scrutiny. <eleland/talkedits> 07:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The histrionics created by the raising of the complete non-issue of the CAMERA affair has given wikipedia's alleged anti-Israel bias plenty of media coverage, which of course is going to bring more editors in to edit the way they see fit. The parties focusing on the CAMERA incident were of course subsequently going to assume conspiracies if anyone ever subsequently came near these articles for ever more. This predictable end result of taking this road with CAMERA was pointed out time and again when the issue blew up, by several level headed and impartial people, but sadly ignored. Well, you reap what you sow to be honest. Misplaced Pages it seems really is a battleground now. MickMacNee (talk) 13:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not that bad. Once an editor registers, there's someone to talk to and talk about, the editor starts to develop a reputation, good or bad, and the usual Misplaced Pages processes can deal with problems as they arise. Contentious editing from anons is a headache, but can be dealt with via semi-protection, since this particular problem is confined to a small number of well-known articles. Watching for unusual anon behavior in this area is appropriate right now; that's all. --John Nagle (talk) 16:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with some of the other articles in the dispute, but as I'm an uninvolved admin, I've decided to take on the supervision of the Muhammad al-Durrah article. Page protection has been lifted, and I have set Talk:Muhammad al-Durrah#Conditions for editing on the talkpage. I'm having to nudge a few folks (including some "involved editor" admins) to abide by the conditions, but so far the conditions seem to be working. --Elonka 13:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

User:The SRS

Various issues have been coming up revolving this user:

• He claimed that his account was hacked, and that somebody else was getting on his account to make userspace edits, and that it was not him. After Alison preformed a checkuser it was found to be that he was lying, and was making all of those edits. He has been warned time after time to stop making userspace edits, and get into namespace, and he basically refused to.
• He appears to be good friends with indefinitely blocked user User:SexySeaClownfish
• He created this video on his YouTube account. The link to his account was found on his userpage.
• He attacked myself, Alison, and even his adopter The Hybrid with a middle finger in ASCII form on his userpage, but I have since removed it.

He has recently apologized, but after all of this, I believe some sort of action needs to take place. -- iMatthew _T.C. 10:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I have an opinion on the matter, but I'd rather not express it. I will submit to whatever decision is reached here without objection. Cheers, The Hybrid 11:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The editor is 14 (and a half and a bit) years old and appears to act it. The contributions to the mainspace are generally in areas where there is a surplus of good editors (I presume, because WWF and its ilk mean little to me - and the little I know does not encourage me to learn more) and the rest is pretty much social networking and teenage moping. Perhaps this is an instance where the encyclopedia might take itself away from this person? LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I think he should have his powers taken away if he called all of us a-holes. Altenhofen (talk) 23:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... we should at least delete his user page, that could calm his "MySpace" tendencies a bit. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

He'll prolly go nutz if you do that. Best off trying to get him to rationalize it a bit first, as we did with User:Hornetman16, back in the day. Has anyone tried this yet? - Alison 23:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, to me going arround throwing tirades with sockpuppets of blocked users seems bad enough. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Myself and Hybrid has tried rationalizing with him best we could, and he doesn't listen. It's best for his page to be deleted. -- iMatthew _T.C. 23:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I told him to take a Wikibreak. I, personally, would like to see him given another chance. However, if his page is deleted he'll go nuts, as Alison said. He messaged Ryulong after Ryu deleted SexySeaClownfish's page, and SRS sees deletion of a page as something very serious, to say the least. If you're going to delete his page, it's best to block him as well to prevent him from "expressing his opinion" about it. However, while I would like him to receive a second chance, I also have to acknowledge that he doesn't deserve it. Off-wiki attacks with a sockpuppeteer, false claims of hacking, and almost no productive contributions. If he's blocked, I won't protest. The Hybrid 09:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Also see this. He's clearly in contact with another blocked sock. I suggest getting the mop out... D.M.N. (talk) 14:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Admin in breach of 3RR and abusing admin privileges

USer:Edokter is in the process of edit warring over the images Image:TARDIS-trans.png and Image:TARDIS.jpg he has now breached the WP:3RR, and used his admin powers to protect his prefered version of the page. I would appreciate if someone would look into the appropriateness of his behaviour Fasach Nua (talk) 13:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Complainant seems not to understand the issue of tagging on Commons; perhaps someone should explain it more clearly. --jpgordon 13:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Oh look—you're both edit warring. Perhaps you should give us a bit more context to work with here, including an explanation of why you (Fasach Nua) shouldn't also be blocked for edit warring. (3RR is an electric fence, not an entitlement, blah blah blah.) For some reason I get the sense that this is a small part of a larger dispute; I do hope that no one is trying to game the system here. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh. It turns out that you've explicitly admitted to trying to game the system: . Gloating about reaching 3RR – "...You have reached you three reversions in the 24 hours, so I will expect the image to be left as is!" – isn't cool. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Edokter looks to be in the right here, but probably still shouldn't have used his admin tools like this, and neither user has particularly covered themselves in glory. I have unprotected the articles given that this conversation should probably prevent any more edit-warring. Black Kite 13:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

No, I shouldn't have protected the local pages. On the other hand, I did tag the images on Commons as Fasach has been told to do numorous times, so he should be happy. — Edokter • Talk • 14:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

You cruel, abusive, inhumane bastard! Not only did you make the edit that Fasach was trying to make, you went and made it in the correct place, and you did it twelve minutes before he filed the complaint about you. Apparently, the most serious defect in your conduct was that you protected the image page here in an – apparently futile – attempt to keep Fasach from continuing to shoot himself in the foot. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

You sir, are out of order. I am not, I repeat, not inhumane! — Edokter • Talk • 15:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Since Edokter has implicitly admitted to being a cruel, abusive (but not inhumane!) bastard, I am being bold and marking this as resolved ;) --Jaysweet (talk) 17:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Question on SUL & blocked users

I read Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Moulton and was just curious--NOT Moulton specific, but a technical question. He's just the discussion example. So if someone is blocked on en.wikipedia, and that is their only account under that name, they can't use SUL on other WMF projects unless that project unblocks home? The "parent" project controls SUL access for the whole rest of it? If so, why would banned/unbanned status have any bearing on SUL? I'm confused. :) rootology (T) 13:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Your home wiki is the wiki on which you have the most edits. If your home wiki account is blocked (not banned - banned is not a technical term, rather a "legal" one, such as it is), then you cannot use SUL. I don't know if creating an account of the same name and with the same password on another Wiki and overtaking the edit count of the original account on en.Misplaced Pages would then change the home wiki and allow you to then use SUL (or is that WP:BEANS?). Neıl 龱 14:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

To be more clear, you can't unify your accounts using SUL if your home wiki account is blocked. You can still edit on other wikis using your unified account if your home account is blocked following unification. Avruch * 14:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Not that we're encouraging anyone to try it out. ffm 16:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Why is this? --Random832 (contribs) 18:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Fawn_Lake

Adminstrative attention would be helpful. PouponOnToast (talk) 14:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I couldn't agree more. Wiki-stalking another editor's edits is unhelpful. - Fawn Lake (talk) 14:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Poupon, what specific concern do you have? My assumption is that you removed those two items because they lacked sources, but - as I don't see a message to Fawn Lake explaining that - Could you confirm? UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 14:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Fawn Lake is MyWikiBiz. Comcast + wikipedia internals + poker. PouponOnToast (talk) 14:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Poupon, you have some proof? Is this meant as a joke? You reverted his edits without an edit summary explaining why. Bstone (talk) 15:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I stand behind my statement. A cursory review of the users editing history by individuals familiar with the MO would be more than enough. Edits by banned users are revertable on sight. PouponOnToast (talk) 15:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This is either Kohs, or someone trying to impersonate him, look at the first edit to his user page. Clearly warrants following his edits around and reverting at whim. R. Baley (talk) 15:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Update, I've indef'd the account, so unless new info come to light. . . R. Baley (talk) 15:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Allegations of Israeli apartheid

Strongbrow (talk · contribs) moved this article to Israeli and the apartheid analogy which is a controversial page move particularly since the original article is under AfD and a page move is being discussed as a possible option but the option does not yet have consensus. The move was made entirely without discussion and should have been a requested page move rather than made by her/his self. --Ave Caesar (talk) 16:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Note: Strongbrow (talk · contribs), not Strongbow made the move. --Onorem♠Dil 16:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I was reading over the discussion and it looked like there was general agreement that the old title sucked and I thought this new title was more neutral. I'm still new at this so I'm sorry if I acted incorrectly but let's see what people think of the new title. I'm not going to edit war over it but I really do think it'll be acceptable to both sides. Strongbrow (talk) 16:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

As I just posted on the article talk page, renaming just for the sake of renaming was a poor choice to make in this case. Discussion about what to move it to, if anywhere at all, should precede a rename. Not the other way around. Tarc (talk) 16:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Right, I would suggest that you take controversial page moves to WP:RM next time. --Ave Caesar (talk) 16:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'm sorry for getting it wrong - just trying to help. I tried to move it back and can't - hopefully there will be a consensus to keep the change. Strongbrow (talk) 16:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Placed a CSD G6 tag on the Allegations of Israeli apartheid article --Ave Caesar (talk) 17:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Would someone please move it back without messing up the edit history? There's enough move history on this article (it started as Israeli apartheid years ago) that cleaning this up is hard. Thanks. --John Nagle (talk) 17:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, somebody did that. Thanks. --John Nagle (talk) 17:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Oops, looks like the article page was moved back but the talk page wasn't. Now the article and talk are out of sync, and there's a double redirect on the talk page. --John Nagle (talk) 18:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

ok, I moved the talk page back. Please post if I screwed up somehow. -- SCZenz (talk) 18:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

3RR and removing AfD tags

Earlier today I tagged for AfD two articles, Chiacig_crime_family, and Alfredo Chiacig, both created by User Rico-rico1982 (talk · contribs). He and an IP 213.100.20.76 (talk · contribs) (which I suppose is him) has edit-warred me and some others removing the tags. I think the subject could be CSD, but as I wasn't sure I nominated it on AfD. I'm trying to keep the tag there, and Static Gull (talk · contribs) is doing the same. But I'm afraid I'm about to break 3RR myself. Could an admin help a bit here? Samuel Sol (talk) 17:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think WP:3RR is used in the re-adding of WP:AFD notices. Not for sure though. <3 Tinkleheimer TALK!! 17:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not that sure either, but didn't want to risk. Anyway I'm getting tired of doing it. Samuel Sol (talk) 17:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

They will come under 3RR as soon as they are warned. You will not be blocked for reverting the removal of the tags, but they will be for removing them. -MBK₀₀₄ 17:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I've blocked Rico-rico1982 (talk · contribs) 72 hours for disruption. Monitoring the IP. I also salted Alfredo Chiacig against recreation, given the BLP issue, and will happily remove protection if sources are provided for a neutral version of the article. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 17:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I've deleted Chiacig_crime_family as a purely unsourced, negative biography of living persons. I invite a review of the deletion, as I both added a comment to the AfD and blocked the article's author. It is a BLP violation, though, up to and including accusing a living person of murder. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 18:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. 100% unsourced, negative material about living people. Clear WP:CSD#G10 material. GRBerry 13:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Steven Greer's page

The admins have just closed an AFD(http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Steven_M._Greer) as keep on his(http://en.wikipedia.org/Steven_M._Greer) Misplaced Pages page. Ignoring this decision 129.138.90.90 (talk)- who is a known vandal - deleted and redirected the page. Would you please undo this edit and restore the original version after the afd? Thanks in advance. I-netfreedOm (talk) 18:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. There was no consensus for a redirect on either the talk page of the article or the AfD discussion. BradV 18:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Moved further discussion to editor's talk page --Jaysweet (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Disruptive Editor following my contributions

Hi, I have an editor (johnb316) who's following me around to what ever page I go to and is reverting, disputing, and arguing against whatever I say. I placed a request for help on the Editor Assistance page and he even followed me there. Is there anything that can be done about a Wiki Stalker???Romans9:11 (talk) 18:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

All I can find is a content dispute on ] which continued when both editors made one post each to WP:EAR. I see no pattern of wikistalking. Can you provide diffs please? --Selket 19:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I was about to say the same thing. -Jéské 19:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I hope this isn't considered "stalking" that i would defend myself here but this is completely bogus and is in response to an ongoing disagreement on a couple of related pages where several wiki editors happen to side with my edits/comments and it made this particular editor upset. I have nothing to hide here and the history will speak for itself along with correspondance with editors Jaysweet and Toddst1. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks.Johnb316 (talk) 19:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Note - I have changed the title of this section; stalking is a serious situation that involves threats of physical and psychological intimidation that has the potential to be actuated in real life (e.g. calls to employers or threats that include addresses). Following someone's contributions on Misplaced Pages does not fall into that category. Please don't use the term "stalking" when you mean someone is tracking your edits. I concur with Selket's and Jeske's read. Risker (talk) 19:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, "Wikistalking" is sort of an accepted term, for better or worse...

In any case, I have been in correspondence with both editors prior to the ANI being filed, and this report is meritless. Romans9:11 and Johnb316 happen to share an intense interest in the same megachurch and its pastor. There are theological disagreements regarding certain things the pastor has said, and the megachurch just recently got hit with a scandal when one of its ministers got arrested. Nobody is following anybody around, as both of them have made clear their interest in the relevant articles long before they came into conflict with each other.

Both editors should take care not to engage in edit-warring, of course. Beyond that, this is a content dispute, nothing more. --Jaysweet (talk) 19:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll just point out that a longtime contributor was recently blocked in part for suggesting that another editor was "stalking" his edits. Let's stop using this term. Risker (talk) 19:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Jaysweet, come on! Johnb316 followed me to sysop Toddst's talk page, then to the Editor Assistance page and then, good grief, I knew he would...followed me here! Romans9:11 (talk) 19:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Romans, the idea that Johnb316 "followed" you to the Administrators' noticeboard is frankly somewhat absurd. If you read the instructions at the top of this page for posting an incident report, you are supposed to notify the involved parties when you do so. You failed to do that, but Johnb316 noticed his name being mentioned anyway and decided to <gasp> defend himself. I see no problem with that whatsoever. He has every right to answer your allegations.

Similarly, on Toddst1's talk page, Johnb316 had a vested interest in that conversation as well, since it involved a content dispute over a page on which the two of you were recently edit warring.

Please do not make spurious ANI reports. --Jaysweet (talk) 19:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I didn't know I was supposed to notify parties involved - my bad, and thanks for letting me know. But, either johnb316 is the luckiest man on earth and just happened to notice my comments in all 3 areas, or he's wikistalking me. I'll assume for the sake of peace at this point that he's the luckiest man on earth and hope he stops. Johnb316 if you continue to be really lucky, I'll come back here with evidence. Romans9:11 (talk) 21:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Surely Johnb316 looked at your contribution list, and noticed these reports, and that's why he is here. That is not Wikistalking -- particularly since you've been forum shopping your false allegations against him. If somebody were running around criticizing me, I'd check their contribution list too! In fact, just as a matter of course in understanding this dispute, I have looked at both you contribution list and Johnb316's several times today. That is not Wikistalking.

Romans, my patience with you is exhausted at this point. Please do not make any other spurious allegations against Johnb316, or you will be blocked without further notice, as per Toddst1's notice on your talk page. Thank you. --Jaysweet (talk) 21:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Jaysweet I must have offended you somehow, because, it appears that you are making personal allegations against me. I have in NO WAY been "forum shopping" and am insulted by your accusation of such. I've been trying to do the RIGHT thing and stop, what I see to be, a disruptive editor who's making it very difficult for me and others to make a contribution to Wiki. If you and Toddst don't see it that way, well o.k., perhaps I need to have better documentation next time I make a complaint. And, next time I guess I'll try and be the first one to make a complaint on the board - in my experience the first one to complain usually gets the benefit of the doubt. Again, I'm sorry if I've offended you and as I said in my last post here, I'll give Johnb316 the benefit of the doubt and not make any allegations against him without more evidence.Romans9:11 (talk) 12:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Jaysweet. Hopefully this conversation is over and we all can get back to more important things.Johnb316 (talk) 20:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I am marking this as resolved. There is nothing to see here. --Jaysweet (talk) 13:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Oversight needed

This (link redacted) edit seems to contain a person's real name, location and phone number. Somehow this has slipped by for almost 2 years. Request this edit be oversighted. Angrymansr (talk) 20:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Good catch! I have sent the link in question to the e-mail address specified at Requests for Oversight, and I redacted the link above.

In the future, for links that need oversight, it is better to send them directly to WP:RFO rather than post here, because posting the diff here has the unfortunate effect of increasing the visibility of the edit in question :)

Why do I know this? Because I made the same damn mistake a couple weeks ago :D Thanks again for the good catch! --Jaysweet (talk) 20:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I've deleted the talk page as it was the single edit on the page (other than your blanking) and not constructive to encyclopedia building. Not sure if oversight is necessary in this case, but we've already emailed for it, so... (Was it?) xenocidic (talk) 20:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, they got back to me in under 3 minutes -- and I know my company's e-mail is laggy, so it was probably even less than that. That's service!

Marking as resolved. Thanks againg Angrymansr! --Jaysweet (talk) 20:42, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick action and the advice on where to send oversight requests. Angrymansr (talk) 21:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Radiolbx

As another user has previously removed my personal attack warning on his talkpage, can someone please chat with User:Radiolbx regarding comments such as these & . Thanks JPG-GR (talk) 20:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Radiolbx is within their right to remove the warnings off their talk page Interesting to see that another editor removed the warnings butI don't know if they can remove warnings on another editor's talkpage but still Radiolbx has no right to attack you for what ever reason. Bidgee (talk) 20:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm fully aware of his right to remove the warnings on their talk page... but they weren't the one to do so. I would appreciate some admin intervention as I worry that any future warnings I may post will just be once again removed by the other user (User:Milonica).

The issue here was that they were being removed by a different editor. I've left notes for both of them, and suggested that if they feel it's important to pursue this issue, they take it to dispute resolution. I'll take a longer look when I have the opportunity. Tony Fox (arf!) 21:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks. JPG-GR (talk) 21:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm with you comment by Milonica (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) could be assuming bad faith to JPG-GR (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to say that they have them on a hitlist and also threatening to report if they (JPG-GR) post another personal attack warning. Bidgee (talk) 21:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I am not assuming bad faith with JPG-GR. I didn't know that the comment in question existed above. When I said I'm with you, I was referring to another issue, which has nothing to do with this one. I apologize for removing the warning, I sincerely thought it was for another issue, which is between JPG-GR and I, not radio. Milonica (talk) 22:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Centralized discussion/Image placeholders

Just FYI, I wanted to mention that based on this discussion some users have been deleting placeholder images eventhough there was no consensus. I have already noticed 2 and I am sure there are plenty more.--Kumioko (talk) 21:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Is it the school holidays?

There has been some disruptive, childish, and possibly libellous editing by a group of users who would appear to be either friends at the same school or sockpuppets to articles such as Horsforth School, St Margarets Primary School, Limbo (dance). The users are primarily: Canpop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Hardguy999 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), McSaucePaste (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Coolguy911 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and Farsleyceltic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). The users leedsunited325 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and farsleyceltic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) also appear to be associated but have vandalised less. Could someone keep an eye on these and revert/block as appropriate? Thanks, DWaterson (talk) 22:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Ahhh, summertime. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 22:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Dreamer.se

This user has persistently engaged in fair use violations together with the good image uploads. His response has been to blank his talk page. Importantly, I gave this user a last warning at his sockpuppet username (User talk:12345blake, though the diff is obnoxiously deleted, and which username was blocked indefinitely for vandalism). I ask and beg to community to enforce the standards of policy, which he has flouted ever since creating an account. The Evil Spartan (talk) 22:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Please block User talk:142.192.200.200 for page blanking

Dear admins, I kindly request the long-term block of IP 142.192.200.200. This IP is registered to NCO Group, a US collection agency. The IP has been blanking large parts of the article. 3 years of warnings have done nothing to curtail this vandalism/page blanking. Thus, I turn to the administrators for further assistance. Bstone (talk) 23:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the speedy action, Toddst1!!!! Bstone (talk) 23:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

"The Network" vandalism

Has anyone else come across this rubbish? Vandalism from

12.16.153.2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

65.42.208.135 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

65.91.32.56 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

65.117.70.226 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

146.145.79.140 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

198.202.202.169 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

216.9.250.42 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

216.9.250.107 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

and possibly others, all with edit summaries crapping on about how "The Network knows all", "The Network is watching you", etc. One such edit seems to be claiming that this is coordinated vandalism by Tau Kappa Epsilon, but I'm inclined to believe it is just one wanker working through open proxies. Does anyone want to do a proxy check? Hesperian 00:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

In my time here that is not something that has ever popped up. I think it should be added to the watch out list. By the way. I love the comment here. Best laugh I got all day. Rgoodermote  00:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Seems to be the same mob at Talk:The Brady Bunch#Jeopardy! trivia. Hesperian 01:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

See this archived item from WP:ANI for more info, and this abuse report that was rejected after what was probably only a cursory look. &#151;Whoville (talk) 01:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Probably time to re-do that abuse report then. Thanks for those by the way. Rgoodermote  02:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

User:RestoreTheEmpireSociety - Swastika and Racist attacks

Userpage deleted,editor indefed by User:Ryulong.--Xp54321 (Hello!,Contribs) 02:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

RestoreTheEmpireSociety (talk · contribs)'s behaviors draw my attention after he left a highly inappropriate comment on User talk:Flying tiger."show japs the picture of togukawa ieyasu on my page" At that time, he or she was spreading similar insulting attacks to other editors, so I visited his page and saw very surprising and unique user page ever.

The first paragraph with a lot of Swastika says like "Heil, Imperial China! (卍卍卍卍萬歲 中華帝國) just like Nazi did to Adolf Hitler.

Besides, the user page has a section containing editors whom he/she thinks of not good, so gave a threat or improper personal/racist attacks to. Given that he registered his account 10 days ago, and he/she is highly likely a sock of some banned user, or any who may make edit warring with the Korean editors. I think the user page has to be removed and the user has to be blocked for his disruptive racist comments and assaults. --Caspian blue (talk) 00:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Notable examples

• japanese have small brains at User_talk:No_2_Hinoh, at User talk:Fourteenth hinomaru
• User_talk:Ishikawa_Minoru#your_comments_on_shanghai_talk_page... japanese people are a very primitive people, all japanese writing systems are derived from chinese or the roman alphabet....(the user Ishikawa_Minoru seems to have a serious problem too..)
• the article on the dumb german- russian

This is serious, and I don't see any good contributions from the user in question. --Caspian blue (talk) 01:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the user's edits, I came to the same conclusion. User page nuked out of the water, user blocked.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 01:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The ironic thing is, before the Germans ruined it for everyone, the swastika was considered a 'good luck sign'. HalfShadow 03:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense, when you think about it. Anybody wearing one would need good luck to not get jumped.--Koji†Dude 03:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

BTW, though I agree that the other content on the user page is at best inflamatory and at worst racist, you guys have misinterpreted his use of the swastika. From the Swastika page: These two symbols are included, at least since the Liao Dynasty, as part of the Chinese language, the symbolic sign for the character 萬 or 万 (wàn in Chinese, man in Korean/Japanese, vạn in Vietnamese) meaning "all" or "eternality" (lit. myriad) and as 卐, which is seldom used. When he wrote "...卍卍萬歲 中華帝國", he's saying "long live the Chinese empire." Refer to the ten thousand years article also for more context. —Umofomia (talk) 09:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

As a note: Nazi swastikas turn rightward, while all of the ones used by this editor turn leftward. Durova 16:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

May have been the only one to be had in the UTF-8 character set. This reversed version can still be seen in a non-political context in Japan, on maps, to mark Buddhist temples. Also, as I recall, the symbol was used by at least one tribe in the southwestern desert of pre-Columbian North America. Gwen Gale (talk) 16:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

In either case, I collapsed the copy of the user page. Symbol of hate or symbol of good luck, either way that little piece of mind terrorism was starting to wear on me a little bit. heh ;) --Jaysweet (talk) 16:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Thamarih is back …

… this time with threats on top of personal attacks. He's taken repeated escalating blocks. MARussellPESE (talk) 03:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I've given them a final warning as well--one more legal threat or personal attack and they're blocked. Given the look of their talk page, it may be pushing WP:AGF a little to think that it might stick this time, but seeing as how they've made it a couple of weeks without being blocked already I support giving them a chance to demonstrate that this was simply a slip-up by someone who's trying to do better. --jonny-mt 03:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

More Sportsbook.com headaches

1. (Deletion log); 02:01 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:Sportsbook.c0m" (content was: '#REDIRECT Talk:Sportsbook.com' and the only contributor was Persian Poet Gal)
2. (diff) (hist) . . Talk:Sportsbook.com‎; 02:01 . . (+15,904) . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) (and bingo)
3. (Move log); 02:01 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) moved Talk:Sportsbook.c0m to Talk:Sportsbook.com (fix)
4. (Deletion log); 02:01 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:Sportsbook.com" (content was: '3154164756188460809363030286645451701265196562623238703163237107951353874490069346209438629475170296 6362361422994450686916698686600279039593446893432936551204206347823658766440668754025307664209877402 09696099459832925057839282835708425...')
5. (Deletion log); 02:00 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) restored "Talk:Sportsbook.c0m" (45 revisions restored: real talk page)
6. (Deletion log); 02:00 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Sportsbook.c0m" (content was: '#REDIRECT Sportsbook.com' and the only contributor was Persian Poet Gal)
7. (diff) (hist) . . m Sportsbook.com‎; 02:00 . . (+2,363) . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) (and bingo)
8. (Move log); 01:59 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) moved Sportsbook.c0m to Sportsbook.com (fix)
9. (Deletion log); 01:59 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Sportsbook.com" (restored wrong page)
10. (Deletion log); 01:59 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) restored "Sportsbook.c0m" (168 revisions restored: actual page)
11. (Deletion log); 01:56 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:Sportsbook.c0m" (CSD G8 - talk page of a deleted page)
12. (Deletion log); 01:56 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Sportsbook.c0m" (content was: '#redirect Sportsbook.com')
13. (Deletion log); 01:55 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:Sp0rtsb00k.c0m" (content was: '#REDIRECT Talk:Sportsbook.com' and the only contributor was 2005)
14. (Deletion log); 01:55 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "DRAGNET.TV" (content was: '#REDIRECT Sportsbook.com' and the only contributor was Persian Poet Gal)
15. (Deletion log); 01:55 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Talk:STEVE JOBS" (content was: '#REDIRECT Talk:Sportsbook.com' and the only contributor was Persian Poet Gal)
16. (Deletion log); 01:55 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Sp0rtsb00k.c0m" (content was: '#REDIRECT Sportsbook.com')
17. (Move log); 01:55 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) moved DRAGNET.TV to Sportsbook.com (revert)
18. (Deletion log); 01:55 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) deleted "Sportsbook.com" (content before blanking was: '#REDIRECT DRAGNET.TV')
19. (Move log); 01:54 . . Persian Poet Gal (Talk | contribs) moved Talk:STEVE JOBS to Talk:Sportsbook.com over redirect (revert)
20. (Move log); 01:53 . . Fadeintoyou (Talk | contribs) moved Talk:Sportsbook.com to Talk:STEVE JOBS
21. (Move log); 01:50 . . Fadeintoyou (Talk | contribs) moved Sportsbook.com to DRAGNET.TV
22. (Move log); 01:40 . . 2005 (Talk | contribs) moved Sp0rtsb00k.c0m to Sportsbook.com over redirect
23. (Move log); 01:40 . . 2005 (Talk | contribs) moved Talk:Sp0rtsb00k.c0m to Talk:Sportsbook.com over redirect
24. (Move log); 01:39 . . 2005 (Talk | contribs) moved Talk:Sp0rtsb00k.c0m to Talk:Sportsbook.c0m
25. (Move log); 01:39 . . 2005 (Talk | contribs) moved Sp0rtsb00k.c0m to Sportsbook.c0m

Suggest that large cluestick be applied to 2005 (talk · contribs) and Fadeintoyou (talk · contribs) for general disruption. Persian Poet Gal (talk · contribs), who cleaned up the mess, should be encouraged to apply for adminship. And we really need a semi-automated tool for cleaning up bogus moves. --John Nagle (talk) 04:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, guess what, PPG is an admin, or else she wouldn't be able to delete the pages seen in that log you just posted. -MBK₀₀₄ 04:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nothing is wrong with any of the above, except Fade's obvious vandalism, for which he/she was warned. 2005's moves were valid. PPG is an admin, as was pointed out. Do your homework. Tan | 39 04:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Then what was "(Move log); 01:40 . . 2005 (Talk | contribs) moved Sp0rtsb00k.c0m to Sportsbook.com over redirect" supposed to be for? Was 2005 (talk · contribs) breaking something or fixing something? When doing weird moves, edit comments would be helpful. --John Nagle (talk) 04:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, looked back further, found the vandalism by Fadeintoyou (talk · contribs) that 2005 (talk · contribs) was fixing. Thanks to everyone who cleaned up the mess. --John Nagle (talk) 04:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Solomon Trujillo - legal issues, and media coverage

There's some media coverage of this story at the moment, and I think that that link, and this one should be posted to the article talk page to give further info to any passing editors. Foundation legal counsel clearly seem to be informed. I am unable to do so currently, and it's good to get second through tenth opinions regardless... cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 04:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

A sensible decision. I'd suggest pre-empting the normal 'new at bottom' sectioning and put it at the top, for new editors to find, with a heading making it clear that this is pertinent BLP relevant information and 'mandatory' reading for all editors. Link the BLP policies there as well, and make a 'pelase do not archive note as well. ThuranX (talk) 04:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Legal threats on my Wiki? No way. -- Ned Scott 04:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

But we're not addressing the Legal Threats, we're discussing how best to make sure that editors act in an especially responsible manner while the foundation sorts things out. We don't need to leave new editors blind to the situation. It might also be worth it to use a hidden comment at the top of each section directing new editors to read that section before editing. ThuranX (talk) 04:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

That's what office actions are for. -- Ned Scott 05:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

So you oppose PM's idea because you'd rather wait for someone else to handle it? ThuranX (talk) 05:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I oppose the idea because of WP:NLT. If the Foundation actually needs to take some sort of temporary measure while it sorts this issue out, then they'll do that. We don't need to second guess them. -- Ned Scott 05:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Apathy then. I'm going to say it. You're wrong. There's NO reason to not notify editors that there is an ongoing concern about the article, and care should be taken when editing it. No one's suggested making a Legal Threat there, nor is the fact that a legal action has been filed the same as a threat. these people followed through. Taking those facts, not threats, to the editors and saying "hey, look at this before editing, and be sure that anything you want to do can be supported, because we don't need more trouble" isn't making a legal threat, it's protecting the project and warning them that things are going on. ThuranX (talk) 05:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not wrong at all. PM's suggestion was to put links to the legal threats on the talk page, plain and simple. It creates intimidation and a chilling effect. My suggestion, on the other hand, is to handle this as a sensitive BLP issue. Huh. -- Ned Scott 05:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

For those of you playing along at home: March 7 letter, see also. Daniel (talk) 04:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

This man is threating to sue the project if an anon user isn't blocked? does he know that IP addresses change constantly? has the foundation expressed anything about it? - Caribbean~H.Q. 05:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nogt the topic of this section, and not for us to comment on. Let his lawyer and the foundation has hit out. Let's focus on PM's suggestion that we make it readily available on the article talk that a BLP situation exists and caution is needed on that page.ThuranX (talk) 05:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

We shouldn't pay the legal threats any mind. Increase protection of the article, maybe. Put a bigger notice about BLP, maybe. But the legal threat itself shouldn't be there. -- Ned Scott 05:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

So, though if PM does it now, we can try to avoid stacking up the troubles with new problem edits, you instead prefer we ignore it and wait around until the office deals with it, and if in the intervening time, moer bad edits are made, then that's not our problem, because we're not the office? Doesn't this go against all the recent discussions about the community being responsible? ThuranX (talk) 05:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Funny, that's not what I wrote at all. -- Ned Scott 05:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure it is. You said, do nothing and ignore it because others will do it. ThuranX (talk) 05:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Still, this can set a very negative precedent, completely ignoring it doesn't seem prudent. - Caribbean~H.Q. 05:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

To Thuran: Bullshit. " Increase protection of the article, maybe. Put a bigger notice about BLP, maybe. ". I never said we should do nothing, I just said that linking to the legal issues wasn't a good idea. -- Ned Scott 05:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

There has been no issues since the initial one from my research, and to be honest I don't expect there to be. The protection was due to expire, and due to concerns, it was extended to indefinite. Since the initial problem was solved by oversight/deletion and semi-protection, there hasn't been any further problems with the article, and I can't see why there would be any more in the future (this page has been watchlisted by many who were aware of the concerns, myself included). I really don't see why any editorial action needs to be taken. If someone wants to leave a brief note with relevant links urging caution in editing on the talk page, they are free to, as they would any other edit. Daniel (talk) 05:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

In other words, this is old news and not really an issue? -- Ned Scott 05:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

only 'cos it's in the papers at the mo, Ned.... if I knew how to mark this 'resolved' I would... anyone? cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 05:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I wasn't sure if there was more to it or not. I find it odd they would make a news story about something from March that had no new activity, and they didn't wait for comments from either party. I figured there was something else? It's still good that you left us this notice, though, even if I didn't like the suggestion of putting the link to http://www.chillingeffects.org/defamation/notice.cgi?NoticeID=18099 on the talk page. I guess we could use that "in the news" template, where ever it is. It would give it a different spin, making the issue not as intimidating, but still saying "btw, this happened". Maybe I'm just thinking too hard.. -- Ned Scott 05:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Lets just keep it from happening again and let Mike et al. continue to deal with this (there is a chance that this is still an active issue, a chance which we shouldn't rule out). Our job is to watchlist the article, revert and/or delete/oversight anything nasty, and maintain it to a standard which is acceptable within both the letter and spirit of our policies on living people. Let's let Mike do his job, if he still has any involvement with this, otherwise. Daniel (talk) 05:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

IP making disruptive, harassing comments

see Special:Contributions/74.4.179.205. Perhaps a short block? Part of a larger mess over the Saab Lofton article which I don't quite have time to try to sort out right now. The subject of the article is quite upset. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 05:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, sproted the article. Too much unsourced negative BLP from anon-users. --Selket 06:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Just a night on the job

I'm drive-by blocking some disruptive users without talk page notices. Just for the record. Keegan 06:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Main page FA protected

I put a one hour semiprotection on Durian, as there is obviously a collaboration offwiki to disrupt the article, and the IPs are from all around the globe. Keegan 06:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Once it comes off FA, I'm deleting the vandalism. -Jéské 06:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I have semi'd it again for an hour due to the same thing. Black Kite 09:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Quick note, when protecting a main page FA becomes necessary, it is important to not set an expiry time of an hour or so. When the semiprotection expires, so does the move protection. It's best to manually remove the semiprotection (while keeping the move protection) when the coast is clear. --Bongwarrior (talk) 09:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

8bitJake disrupting article, and in edit war with Tallicfan20

Look at this history. 8bitJake (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who has had problems with edit warring and 3RR in the past, is now disrupting Democratic Leadership Council by engaging in an edit war with Tallicfan20 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log).

Additionally, 8bitJake is on probation, per this ArbComm remedy. Per that, I'm proposing 8bitJake be banned from Democratic Leadership Council, for a lengthy edit war, along with any warnings and/or blocks both users receive for this.

For the record, I need to note that I was involved in a previous content dispute with 8bitJake, which was resolved with an RFC. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 06:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it seemed that we had resolved the issue before you started this discussion. We had ended the edit war, and it was fine. So I think that we should put it back to how it was before you started this discussion, with this version. however, you can see, I was trying to reasonably resolve this from the start with logical discourse. Tallicfan20 (talk) 06:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I've reverted to Nwwaew's version and protected. Work out the issue on the talk page. It takes two for a straight-up content edit war, which this appears to be. Request the involvement of other editors. At first glance, this doesn't appear to be tendentious, disruptive editing - it appears to be two people involved in a heated content dispute. FCYTravis (talk) 07:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nwwaew has an axe to grind. I think he is unfairly biased against me and I don't feel comfortable with him dealing with me as an admin. --8bitJake (talk) 07:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Nwwaew is Wikistalking me. He was not asked to get involved in this article and I feel that he is incredible biased against my contributions. He just undid all the verifiable work that I put unto that article. If his harassment continues I might be tempted to leave Misplaced Pages or create a new account to get away from his harassment. --8bitJake (talk) 08:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The reason I reverted is because you were in a very severe edit war with another person. Reversion is standard in those cases. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 14:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

well jake, at this version it seemed our little war calmed down. I say we take it back to this version at that part and leave it. Tallicfan20 (talk) 07:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

8bitJake, please WP:AGF. Anyone can edit any article, unless they are restricted by ArbComm or the community. And if I was an admin, I would have recused all use of the tools in anything involving you. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 14:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Your following me arround and Wikistalking me is harassment pure and simple. --8bitJake (talk) 17:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Stalking and Harassment from Nwwaew

Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) is Wikistalking me and has following me arround editing articles that he was not previously invoved with and making allegations against me. This harassment pure and simple He was not asked to get involved in these article and I feel that he is incredible biased against my contributions. He just undid all the verifiable work that I put unto that article. If his harassment continues I might be tempted to leave Misplaced Pages or create a new account to get away from his harassment.

If you look at his contributions to Democratic Leadership Council he came there with the only reason to harass me. He should be blocked and banned from articles I work on. --8bitJake (talk) 17:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Please provide diffs. Toddst1 (talk) 17:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

This was right before he stalked me there and removed all the work I did on the article. He had NEVER edited the article there before. He likes to think of himself as an admin.. despite him not being one. --8bitJake (talk) 17:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any disruption based on that one link. Is there more? Toddst1 (talk) 17:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

AIV helper not helping

This user is vandalising, even though the block log shows that Nakon blocked indef in May. The helperbot is helpfully removing my note at WP:AIV. Kevin (talk) 09:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

That si very odd - as soon as he was reblocked all the recent contribs dissapeared...? Viridae 10:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I re-blocked, then realized it was their user talk page they were vandalizing (which another admin deleted and salted). Too early in the morning it seems. RFPP would've been the best course of action. Marking as resolved. xenocidic (talk) 10:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

MartinPhi restricted

See: User talk:Vassyana#A user you have dealt with previously. Martinphi (talk · contribs) has shown himself unable to disengage from ScienceApologist (talk · contribs) of his own accord. For glaring example of the problem, see User_talk:Vassyana/Archive009#SA and User_talk:Vassyana/Archive009#Again. It's obvious, that intentionally or not, Martin treats reports about SA as his chance to get one up in "the war". As such, Martinphi is prohibited from injecting himself into reports and conversations about ScienceApologist unless it directly relates to actions taken towards or against him, or directly relates to articles in which they are both currently involved. To prohibit circumvention of this restriction, his is further prohibited from newly inserting himself into content and policy discussions where ScienceApologist is previously involved. If Martin has not participated in several weeks or some months in a topic, rejoining the discussion to counter SA will be considered "newly inserting himself". Enough is enough already. Vassyana (talk) 10:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The restriction is logged on the ArbCom case page, and Martinphi has been informed. Vassyana (talk) 10:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

User:CyrilleDunant

User seems to be quick to revert and engages in NPA violations. You can say users talk page is peppered with it. User seems to remove other peoples comments. User might need to be explained a few things. -- Cat 10:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible WP:BLP issues at Chris Crocker (Internet celebrity)

copied from an earlier section to unify discussion

Could someone else step in on this please? WillyJulia (talk · contribs) apparently doesn't like that myself and another editor are enforcing WP:BLP policies on Chris Crocker -- I know, not everyone's cup of tea -- and they seem persistent in speculating who the person is despite being asked not to and now here they are copying my user page which may not be a violation but it is creepy. I have to take a break now but would appreciate uninvolved parties suss it out more civilly than I feel I would. Thank you! Banjeboi 00:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Left a quick note with them, asking them to check out the article's talk page; between your message and the fact they seem to have stopped editing for now, not sure if there's much else to do right at this moment. – Luna Santin (talk) 02:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate the effort although they had already been engaging the talk page, the problem was they were posting the possible identity of someone who has purposely kept their identity and location private due to ongoing death threats. I believe that violates WP:BLP. Perhaps I erred but they also filled their user page with multiple copies of a copyrighted picture which has been added and removed multiple times from the article. This perhaps led them to copy my user page onto theirs. Perhaps not a violation but I would like help in how to approach this since I'm now of such interest to them. Any advice appreciated. Banjeboi 09:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

A personal attack?

WillyJulia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has made a statement on their user page "Benjiboi is a ripe fruit that bruises easily. When in doubt ask!". Could that be classed as a personal attack and/or assuming bad faith with another editor? Bidgee (talk) 11:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, actually they copied my user page to theirs and I'm unsure how to handle it per thethread above. Banjeboi 11:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I missed it. Thank you for the message. Bidgee (talk) 11:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

That's a single-purpose user that probably won't be around long, so the situation should take care of itself. Baseball Bugs 11:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a thread further up about this called 'help please'. Does this mean the stuff is continuing? :( Sticky Parkin 11:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Help!!!! This is continuing and we may need oversight to clean-up this] edit summary and some of their other work. Banjeboi 11:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

This is continuing, WillyJulia also added a WP:AIV on him, reasoning that he removed comments. It has already been removed by an administrator. Arienh4 11:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

There was a recent case at MfD where an editor copied someone else's User page, Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Tamr007. That one closed with Delete. EdJohnston (talk) 14:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

and the editor continues with the other editor then the issues with the article. Bidgee (talk) 15:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The editor also told me to stop reverting the blog that they where reverting . The blog in question is about the article rather then the person there for there isn't a problem with the BIO . Bidgee (talk) 15:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I can see why they might be confused. The blog link at the top of the talk page mentioning wiki in the news is the exact same link that keeps being removed per BLP at the bottom... --Onorem♠Dil 15:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Which I've stated more then once in my edit summarys which the user must be reading for them to reply. Bidgee (talk) 15:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense to me. I agree that the link can't be used as a reliable source, but if it's a BLP violation just to include it in a discussion, then it should be a BLP violation to prominently display it at the top of the talk page. --Onorem♠Dil 15:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I have warned the user about a personal attack against Benjiboi, and observed that they were just edit warring against Bidgee about the removal of a copyrighted image from their User page (which was eventually deleted from commons as <gasp!> a copyvio).

This user is frankly just causing problems. I would endorse a short block to get their attention until they can learn at least one Misplaced Pages policy. (So far, I count WP:BLP, WP:NPA, WP:RS, and WP:COPYVIO as all being violated in the space of like 20 minutes) --Jaysweet (talk) 15:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

To put it more bluntly: Please block this user as an WP:SPA with no contribs that do not relate to exposing the real identity of a WP:BLP, and for being a general PITA in other ways. --Jaysweet (talk) 15:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

They are now in communication with Bidgee (talk · contribs), so maybe he/she can straighten this person out. Perhaps advocating a block was a little premature -- the user is violating policy and generally creating a ruckus, but I think I was mostly just pissed off that I opened their somewhat-NSFW user page while I was at work. heh... --Jaysweet (talk) 15:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

"could you please do me a favor?"

User:Abhaac has posted a request on a number of user talk pages, asking for help with a Master's thesis, and looking to "validate the knowledge evolution maps of identified users in Misplaced Pages". He plans to post a URL and a questionnaire. My approach to this kind of thing would be to ignore it. This could be legitimate, or it could be spam, or even a scam of some kind. What do you all recommend? Baseball Bugs 11:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

As long as he doesn't ask for any personally identifiable information, I don't see a problem with it. It sounds like a valid topic for a thesis, and I can definitely sympathize with the need to get 3rd party objective opinions in order to validate the data in a Master's thesis (in my case, I was able to get my friends to do it in exchange for beer, ha ha ha...).

The only caveat I would add -- and this is an obvious one -- is that anyone who chooses to participate should have their virus protection up-to-date before clicking the URL, should not download any executables, and should not click on it at work or anywhere that a shock site would do more damage than just a minor scar on your psyche. ;)

When he does post the URL, it might be worth it to report back here and have somebody volunteer to click it, just to make sure it's not spam or malicious, and doesn't ask for personal info. Until that point, I am inclined to WP:AGF (especially since the story rings so true to my ears). --Jaysweet (talk) 14:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

There's one here User_talk:TharkunColl#could_you_please_do_me_a_favor.3F Personally I find any research about wikipedia, intriguing and think it should be encouraged/tolerated. Sticky Parkin 17:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

He asked me, and I said I would try to help him. If he ever actually does give me whatever links he wants me to go to, I'm going to fire up my old 600 MHz Windows Me machine... J.delanoy_adds 17:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Even if it asks for personal info, people are free not to give it (or to lie), so why the emphasis on that as a potential problem? --Random832 (contribs) 18:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

A fair question. I would feel a little uncomfortable with someone canvassing Misplaced Pages asking for personal info, but then again, he is canvassing looking for volunteers, so then if he asked only the people who volunteered for personal info (and they obviously would be free to decline) I don't see a problem with it.

I'm inclined to mark this Resolved... Seems innocent enough, and in the unlikely event it turns out to be spam and/or malicious, we can warn people at that time. --Jaysweet (talk) 18:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

CorenSearchBot

Today CorenSearchBot chased me from article to article after creating new pages like Nahoutinga. I need to add myself in User:CorenSearchBot/allies. So any community approval before I proceed? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 13:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Just do it - I'm pretty sure you won't destroy Misplaced Pages (deliberately, anyway!). Neıl 龱 14:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Sure. Your recent article creation work seems excellent (better than mine, anyway) and if you do destroy Misplaced Pages, we can always block you. I see no reason why you shouldn't be on the list. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 14:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Molobo

I have blocked Molobo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) indefinitely. He's recently gone back to his old ways of incessant revert-warring and sockpuppetry, with two 3RR blocks within a week. His block history includes a year-long block from Dmcdevit (talk · contribs) as a last chance. Seeing as he has failed to take that chance, I see no reason not to declare him banned. Please review. Moreschi (talk) (debate) 13:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The user had a long history of edit warring and personal attacks. He blew his last chance(s). WP:NOT therapy. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

• Support block Edit history shows edit-warring, incivility. This user was warned many times. Enough is enough. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 14:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
• Support block per Otolemur, and support community ban due to the sockpuppetry. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 14:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
• Endorse block - I don't know this particular user very well, but this thread is convincing, along with a brief review of the block log and its relevant reasons. Rudget (Help?) 14:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
• Endorse a block to avoid further damage to WP, not to teach him a lesson, which hasn't taken anyway. Bearian (talk) 15:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

His talk-page still says he's only blocked for a week. BradV 16:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I left a formal notice there. MaxSem 17:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Mark Levine recent edits in need of arbitration

Intervention or possibly just arbitration would be appreciated at the Mark Levin page. An attempt to add a bit of seemingly minor information has been repeatedly reverted by user:http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:74.68.132.134 (Sorry, still learning the ins and out of wikipedia, don't know how to fast link). Another editor has attempted to add this information, but it has been scrubbed. Despite a discussion thread being opened on the subject, the user has as of this time, not responded. The user hasn't really made a case as to why it should not be included. However, this user does routinely revert the inserted material on the Levin page, then makes unnecessary commentary that boarders on insult in their edit summaries. I would say this it is possible this editor mistook the links provided as an advertisment, as sometimes news articles include phone numbers or links to places where a person can purchase tickets to an event that is written about. However, in light of the fact that this did come from a news source, and given the remarks in the edit box, I feel that the reverts issued by this user were not only unconstructive, but purposely done in bad faith. Thanks for any help you may provide in this matter.Rocdahut (talk) 15:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

featured article contains vandalism

hi dont know mutch about Wiki, but i think i found several vandalism in featured article http://en.wikipedia.org/Sheerness —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.12.10.1 (talk) 16:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I have removed it. --Jaysweet (talk) 16:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Caspian Blue

Re User_talk:Caspian_blue. Please see discussion on our relative talk pages and , I am preparing a reply and it will be ready in a few minutes.

User attempting to set up dubious 3RR and admin intervention to support POV.

Thank you --60.42.252.205 (talk) 18:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Appears to be a content dispute over an edit to Comfort women with Caspian blue (talk · contribs) which has escalated out of control. I am not sure why this person has posted a report to ANI if they are not yet ready to. Shessh.... --Jaysweet (talk) 18:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Huh, the anon who blanked massively properly cited contents sinced yesterday and violated 3RR on MY TALK PAGE with repeated insulting comments regardless that I said "please stop!" and reported here? what a good gesture. --Caspian blue (talk) 18:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Please see summary with diffs on my talk page. I just wanted to preempt this ... sweet individual from what they was obviously going to do next. --60.42.252.205 (talk) 18:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

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