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Talk Page

Hello and welcome. I left you a message in response to your POV concern on Che Guevara. I hope you will work with myself and other editors on the article, in order to see that your concerns are addressed (if they can be). Redthoreau (talk) RT 06:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

As a suggestion (which you can heed or discard). It seems that you are passionate with relation the content in the article (which is great) ... but I fear that you choice of wording may be strong and pov to the point of being easily "revertible" by others. I would hate to see your possibly constructive edits be deemed illegitimate because of the way they are presented. Maybe next time, stick closer to the wording of the sources, shoot for neutral wording, and do your best to reign in your "zeal." Let the information speak for itself ... there is no need to give the appearance of editorializing. Redthoreau (talk) RT 23:35, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

June 2008

Please do not gratuitously remove content from Misplaced Pages, as you did to the La Cabaña page. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. --Ave Caesar (talk) 14:26, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Wrong

Asking someone to quit vandalising, is not an attack in my book. Sf46 (talk) 20:54, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I didn't specifically say "queer" another user did. I did say "ditto" to what he said, meaning that I didn't think the vandalism was cool. While I do understand that the word "queer" when used in the wrong context can carry a homophobic connatation, I don't think that the othr user or myself were aiming for that particular meaning of the word. If you are so thin skinned that you think every use of the word carries such an offensive meaning, then you are the one with the problem.

As you can tell from comparing your userboxes to mine, you and I are almost complete opposites on nearly every issue. I do see one or two boxes that I'm going to take from you though. Sf46 (talk) 21:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Not vandalism

My edits are clearly not vandalism. Removing unrelated chatter has been an established practice. Please take care to read edit summaries and if you feel the need to revert, treat good-faith edits accordingly. Also, you are clearly using templates wrong. The warning templates should generally be started off at 1 or 2. This is a clear and established practice except in extreme cases. Also, it is generally encouraged not to template regular or long time users. If you feel a warning is necessary, a personal warning regarding the situation is much more appropriate than a rubber-stamp template. Also, using escalated warning templates that threaten blocks is innapropriate since a block will not occur except in extreme cases such as vandalism only accounts, before at least the third incident.--Oni Ookami Alfador 19:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

"Personal Analysis"

I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't added any "personal analysis" to the article on Iraq, nor have I committed any vandalism. The article is written in poor English and I am correcting that. It also contained some redundancy and POV issues, which I have corrected. I have committed no "vandalism" or "experimentation," and my edits should be allowed to stand. --Antodav2007 (talk) 20:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

College World Series

Why did you call my edit to College World Series as vandalism? I removed two sections detailing highlights of the 2007 and 2008 CWS. Each year's CWS has its own page, so I fail to see why special sections were necessary in the main article of the CWS itself. The presence of those sections is an examples of WP:Recentism. And I explained why I was doing so in my comment edit. I am not a vandal, and do not appreciate being called as such. I am going to re-remvoe those sections, further explaining on a talk page if you prefer.--67.101.103.239 (talk) 05:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Sarah Palin

Misplaced Pages has a very strong policy against including questionable and poorly sourced allegations against public figures in its articles. I strongly suggest to this extent that you familiarise yourself - and thoroughly - with the detailed policy on the subject. It is highly inappropriate to attempt to use Misplaced Pages, as you have done here, to make original claims about a public figure: in this case, accusing a Republican governor of being a socialist. I would also remind you of the new enforcement policy for BLP articles, which now states that someone who persists in adding such material can be banned, either from the article or if needed, from the project, by any administrator. Rebecca (talk) 05:50, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

This is not a matter for dispute. Articles on living people must not contain claims about that person that are controversial, poorly sourced and non-neutral. You have been pointed in the direction of the policy should you wish to read more about it. More specifically, in regard to this case, there is no neutral way in which you can originate a claim on Misplaced Pages that a Republican governor is a socialist. The only way in which it might be acceptable is if a prominent public figure makes the allegation and it could be sourced to them. I'll reinforce what I said before: re-adding this material will see you very promptly blocked. Rebecca (talk) 06:04, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Was this you editing while logged out? Kelly 07:17, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Lenerd, can you please weigh in on this article again. It seems that the powers that be continue to ignore the articles comparing her policies to Chavez. 66.230.102.243 (talk) 07:12, 7 July 2008 (UTC)Dave Adamson

Che Guevara

Vandalism is you are engaged in what. At you one belief, at me others. I have resulted the authoritative sources confirming the facts informed by me. If you have facts about humanism or economic talents of Guevara and authoritative sources - result them, and in vandalism be not engaged. Sfrandzi (talk) 17:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Stop vandalism. You also do not have right to reject data anti-Castro authors as at me - to reject data pro-Castro authors Sfrandzi (talk) 17:51, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

First, I consider, that discrepancy of my information to your belief does not give you the right me to offend. Secondly, not all were lucky enough to be born in the English-speaking country. The some has not carried: they were born there where fighters for freedom like Lenin, Che and Fidel have derthrown oppressors and expluatators and have constructed a happy and fair society. And consequently they, maybe, know English is worse, but know the price to revolutionaries such is better.Sfrandzi (talk) 18:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

It's testimony of eyewitnesses and the facts of authoritative sources. If you are dissatisfied with them - you and explain on page of discussion, than you are particularly dissatisfied Sfrandzi (talk) 18:06, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Lenard's edits are not vandalism. Sfrandzi's edits are not vandalism. This is a content dispute. Please discuss it on the article talk page. Please don't revert any more. I think you are both breaking the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Coppertwig (talk) 18:21, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Fang 23/userboxing/Anticapitalism

Thanks. Also do you have any suggestions on how can i make it better?--Fang 23 (talk) 22:20, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Edits on In Popular Culture

Actually, I reverted your edits because they were synthesis. "xkcd.com says x" is referenceable; adding "this is not true because of x, y, and z" without reference is synthesis. The fact that you added it in "the middle of the night" or that the article was "a joke" doesn't change it. Tlesher (talk) 17:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Wrong image

An image (Image:Abughraibtortureinstruments.jpg) you uploaded needs to be either deleted or renamed ASAP. It's not Abu Ghraib. It's an al-Qaeda safe house in Iraq.

It could still make a suitable icon for the User:MQDuck/userboxes/Right_To_Resist page.
-- Randy2063 (talk) 23:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter. Neither of those would be considered reliable sources.

You could check with the Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard if you like, but I suspect TheSmokingGun is the only one they might approve, and that's not a sure thing either. Then there's still the question of rights.

Since it was the military that found that camp, they might have the original pictures. If so, then those would be public domain.

-- Randy2063 (talk) 00:00, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Declined AIV reports

Thank you for helping fight vandalism. Unfortunately three of your recent reports to Administrator intervention against vandalism have been declined because they did not meet AIV criteria #2 and #3. Specifically the IPs either had not been sufficiently warned (using an escalating level of warnings from WP:UTM that reaches the "final warning" stage), or the IP stopped vandalizing after receiving a "final warning." Please let me know if you have any questions or issues, and thanks again for your help to contain vandalism! --Kralizec! (talk) 02:10, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Abughraibtortureinstruments.jpg

Image Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading Image:Abughraibtortureinstruments.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Misplaced Pages takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Sdrtirs (talk) 07:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposed alterations to your suggested material

Your thoughts are welcome. Talk Page Redthoreau (talk) RT 09:44, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I have included previously discussed content and await your opinion. Thanks. Redthoreau (talk) RT 23:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Friendly note about talk page messages

Hello. As a recent editor at User talk:Wintrlnd, I wanted to leave you a friendly reminder that as per WP:USER, editors may remove messages at will from their own talk page. While we may prefer that messages be archived, policy does not prohibit users -including anonymous users- from deleting comments from their own talk pages. The only talk page messages that may not be removed (as per WP:BLANKING) are declined unblock requests (but only while blocks are still in effect), confirmed sockpuppetry notices, or shared IP header templates (for anonymous editors) ... and these exceptions are just to keep a user from gaming the system. Thanks, Kralizec! (talk) 01:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

What?

What was this all about? -Dempkovitch (talk) 01:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

George Carlin

Please do not blank categories without explanation. --Onorem ♠Dil 23:16, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

What's the link supposed to prove? If you have a problem with a specific category, try discussing it. Was he not an actor? Was he not a comedian? Was he not etc.... Complete blanking is inappropriate...and so is your laughable warning template on my talk page.. --Onorem ♠Dil 23:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry. Where exactly is the personal attack? --Onorem ♠Dil 23:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

You are indefinitely blocked

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Lenerd (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

See below

Decline reason:

See below

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

After examining only the most recent page of your contributions list as a consequence of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/National-Anarchism, I have determined that you have engaged in a pattern of unconstructive and disruptive edits. These include, in no particular order: Repeatedly removing all categories from an article for no clear reason (, ) and then providing a bogus warning to the editor reverting your vandalism (), nominating an article for speedy deletion for an obviously inapplicable reason (), leading to the aforementioned AfD, uploading improperly licenced images (, ), creating articles that appear to be machine translations of texts of an uncertain provenance (), and making edits that appear to push a political opinion (, ) in violation of Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy – an impression that your user page does nothing to dispel.

For these reasons, I have blocked you from editing Misplaced Pages until such time as you persuade me (or another administrator reviewing any unblock request that you may choose to make) that you understand our ground rules and that you will comply with them from now on. You may appeal this block by following the procedure set out in WP:Appealing a block, but I counsel you to read WP:GAB before doing so. Sandstein 19:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Lenerd (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I am a constructive editor the reasons given for this block are bogus. I have worked to remove POV from articles, I have attempted to translate articles from the Catalan Misplaced Pages (José Maldonado Gonzalez, Luis Jiménez de Asúa) and for that I am blocked indefinitely without warning? All of my edits are in good faith and none of them could ever be seen as vandalism. To be reprimanded for my first edit made over a year ago (as you can tell from the bottom of my talk page the user who put up that redirect for deletion found it to be legitimate and not "malicious") is ridiculous. It also seems that the blocking admin has a personal conflict with my userpage, which he makes apparent in his "reason" for indefinitely blocking a constructive user without warning, and may have led him to make me one of his 13 blocks in the past 4 days. I have always respected others Misplaced Pages:Etiquette, I worked to remove POV from 2 articles (Sarah Palin, Che Guevara)Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view, and have been blocked because one editor has searched my entire contributions in an attempt to find any reason at all to block. The Misplaced Pages:Vandalism specifically excludes "making bold edits" intended to improve Misplaced Pages, which some of my edits are and may have rubbed the blocking admin the wrong way. And concerning the image I uploaded I was informed that it was from Abu Gharib and it still has not been proven that I was wrong but if I am then it would still be "unintentional misinformation" at most on my part which is not vandalism. Why am I being blocked when my edits are in compliance with Misplaced Pages:Five pillars? I have worked tirelessly to fix articles and revert vandalism myself while assuming good faith and I would appreciate it if I could continue to do so unmolested by admins on a power trip. Frankly, this is bullshit and I am pissed. :P.S. The user who proposed deletion has retracted the proposal

Decline reason:

Disruption, vandalism, It doesn't look like you are here to edit constructively— Ѕandahl 01:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

P.S. since I am blocked and can only edit this page I would like to make my defense of Pig Empire, "To steal from a brother or sister is evil. To not steal from the institutions that are the pillars of the Pig Empire is equally immoral.", Steal This Book. And Page 198 of The Linguistics Wars By Randy Allen Harris "...label was Woodstock Nation, which was coined in a formal declaration of independence from, and state of war with, 'the Pig Empire' (Hoffman, 1971).." Also, it stood for over a year as a link to the economy of the United States at most it should return to that. And did they really use Russian Google to research it? The user who proposed deletion has retracted the proposal}}

Lenerd (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Decline reason:

Procedural; this is a duplicate of a previously reviewed request for unblock. See also my comment below. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 12:24, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm a bit confused here as well. You might have done some questionable things, but nothing that would warrant a block, especially not an indefinite block. You've got a lot of good edits to your name. -- Ned Scott 09:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

No comment on the merits, but I've declined a duplicated request, above. In the meantime, Lenerd, could you briefly address some of the concerns raised by this block? For example, the blocking admin cites several problem edits which bear discussion. You might also wish to discuss this edit, which was reverted by Onorem, for which you warned Onorem here. I acknowledge that you appear to have good faith edits, which is great - but I'm not at all inclined to unblock unless you're able and willing to discuss the specific incidents that caused the block in the first place. Thank you, UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 12:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I discussed the edit to George Carlin and the nomination of National-Anarchism for speedy deletion with user:Charles Matthews The edit to Carlin was about a quote of his found in , "For a while, I thought of myself an atheist until I realized it was a belief, too. It's a shame everything has to have a label." If the man made it obvious that he was not a capital "A" atheist and rejected other labels why would an encyclopedic article categorize him in categories he spent his career distancing himself from and condemning? I made the first edit with that in the summary and the next edit with the site in the summary, but after I realized it probably wouldn't stick I stopped pursuing the matter. As for national-anarchism putting it up for speedy deletion may not have been the wisest choice but I found the label "nonsense" to be fitting for an article that uses dead links to yahoo! groups for references as well as which my browser (Mozilla Firefox 3.0) tells me is an attack site. The rest of the references seem to be links to shoddy sites for followers with the occasional interview with the webmaster of one of these sites thrown in. I agree it shouldn't be deleted (and apologize for nominating it) but it needs to be seriously reviewed. I have put a lot of work into building my reputation as a constructive editor and vandal fighter and I am going to do everything I can to clear my name. That covers "reasons" 1-4 as for the rest... Five and six I have discusses previously, "...the image I uploaded I was informed that it was from Abu Gharib and it still has not been proven that I was wrong but if I am then it would still be 'unintentional misinformation' at most on my part which is not vandalism." As for number seven I don't see what is wrong with translating an article from the Catalan wikipedia to the English wikipedia I called for an expert to help out, as you can see from my userpage, I speak no Catalan. Number eight refers to a redirect which was nominated for deletion after I became blocked, and the nominating user said that my blockage helped bring him to the conclusion that it was malicious. But once I explained the matter on my talk page the user decided to remove it from deletion. As for number nine, the edit to that portal was made because I found the term voluntary association in direct conflict with the rest of the paragraph. So I removed it, then it was reverted with the question asked, "why was this removed?" so I answered it, "because it's ancap bullshit. contracts are a form of coercion." Might I add that the reverting using in that incident was also the user who nominated Pig Empire and subsequently removed that nomination for deletion? (Lenerd (talk) 16:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC))

This makes me more inclined to believe that you are here because you intend to contribute positively, but you do not seem to realise that the way in which you conduct yourself is disruptive. Your Carlin edits are pure vandalism; the opinion of Carlin about being labeled may be noted in the article but is utterly irrelevant for our encyclopedic practice of categorising articles; furthermore, your warning was frivolous and the edit summary did not reflect what you wrote above. The speedy delete tag was equally frivolous, as the article being poorly sourced does not make it patent nonsense; the proper approach would have been a WP:PROD or an {{unsourced}} tag. The image uploads violate our image use policies because they lack proper attribution (and your attribution of "Author=A state sanctioned serial killer" is immature at best); furthermore, they violate copyright law and put Misplaced Pages at legal risk because you do not whether they were in fact taken by a US federal employee. Translating articles from other Wikipedias is fine (although one should preferably translate them to English, not to Engrish) - but we could not know that the text came from another Misplaced Pages, because you did not provide any attribution for the source, thereby also violating the GFDL and the copyright of the Catalan Misplaced Pages editors. The summary of the edit to Portal:Anarchism/Intro ("bullshit", as in your unblock request above) was simply offensive and has no place in the writing of a collaborative encyclopedia, whatever an "ancap" may be. Finally, the "Pig Empire" redirect was made without reference whatsoever as to its (alleged) literary background and because of that, it also looks like an immature and pointless expression of disapproval with the U.S. In sum, I am more inclined to think now that you mean well, but I still don't think that you have demonstrated that you have the maturity, the ability to write from a neutral point of view and the collaboration skills required for you to be an asset rather than a detriment to our project. Sandstein 16:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

The Carlin edits weren't vandalism if the user believes he was improving the wiki by removing them. People have many different views about how we handle categorization. It's nothing more than a content dispute. He made a few mistakes, which no one took the time to help him with, not even to leave a warning. Instead you just indef. blocked him. He's got a right to be pissed off about this. -- Ned Scott 23:11, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Having been involved in two of the supposedly most egregious cases of Lenerd's behaviour (ancap bullshit and Pig Empire), I have to agree with Ned. The editor saw some things he felt didn't belong, and ineptly tried to remove them in good faith. You would be hard pressed to find an editor who hasn't run afoul of our image copyright policy. A slap on the wrists and a warning that any suspect edits will result in a block should be more than sufficient. Skomorokh 23:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

As I said above, I will unblock this user as soon as I am persuaded that that he understands our ground rules and will comply with them from now on. So far, he has just insisted that he did nothing wrong, which is not a good sign. Sandstein 05:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

May I direct you...

You do not need to read any rules before contributing to Misplaced Pages. If you do what seems sensible, it will usually be right, and if it's not right, don't worry. Even the worst mistakes are easy to correct: older versions of a page remain in the revision history and can be restored. If we disagree with your changes, we'll talk about it thoughtfully and politely, and we'll figure out what to do. So don't worry. Be bold, and enjoy helping to build this 💕.

You are not required to learn the rules before contributing. Yes, we already said that, but it is worth repeating.
Don't follow written instructions mindlessly, but rather, consider how the encyclopedia is improved or damaged by each edit. (See also Misplaced Pages:Use common sense.)
Rules derive their power to compel not from being written down on a page labelled "guideline" or "policy", but from being a reflection of the shared opinions and practices of a great many editors. (See also Misplaced Pages:Consensus.)
Most rules are ultimately descriptive, not prescriptive; they describe existing current practice. They sometimes lag behind the practices they describe. (See also Misplaced Pages:Product, process, policy.)
WikiLawyering doesn't work. Loopholes and technicalities do not exist on the Wiki. Misplaced Pages is not a bureaucracy; not moot court, nor nomic, nor Mao.
The spirit of the rule trumps the letter of the rule. The common purpose of building a 💕 trumps both. If this common purpose is better served by ignoring the letter of a particular rule, then that rule should perhaps be ignored. (See also Misplaced Pages:The rules are principles.)
Following the rules is less important than using good judgment and being thoughtful and considerate, always bearing in mind that good judgment is not displayed only by those who agree with you. (See also Misplaced Pages:Civility.)

and it is with that in mind that I will continue to edit Misplaced Pages. (Lenerd (talk) 05:33, 25 July 2008 (UTC))

I would like to express my solidarity with Redthoreau (talk) during his block. I want to get back to editing. I am aware of Misplaced Pages's principles and will always keep them in mind while editing, however, I will continue as I always have to do everything I can to improve the encyclopedia and if that means sidestepping some I must make it clear that I will and believe all editors should. As badly as I wish to get back to editing if it means putting rules before the encyclopedia, I'm sorry but I won't do that. But I realize that the way I had been editing may have been disruptive in some way and for that I apologize and will try to tone down my "zeal." (Lenerd (talk) 06:51, 25 July 2008 (UTC))

Thank you. I note, though, that you continue to refer to vague generalities without addressing the specifics of your conduct. Also, why do you think that expressing "solidarity" with an editor who is currently blocked for what seems to be ideological edit warring makes us more likely to believe that you will not continue to disrupt Misplaced Pages if you are unblocked? Sandstein 07:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

"Us?" who is this us? from the look of my talk page there is a significant amount of support for my unblocking. May I make it known that of the two admins who declined my unblock request User:Sandahl and User:Ultraexactzz, Ultraexactzz also declined User:Redthoreau's unblock request as well. The admin who blocked Redthoreau (User:Nishkid64) appears to have a friendship with one of the editors (User:Blnguyen) Redthoreau had conflict with and was blocked as a result. The other admin who declined my unblock request (User:Sandahl) also has a friendship with User:Blnguyen as can be seen by checking the file links on Image:Blnguyen tulip.jpg. That is why I express solidarity with Redthoreau (talk) because he is a similar position of admin abuse. Also Thomas I would like say that you truly have lived up to your reputation of handing out indefinite blocks for frivolous reasons, I feel it is my duty to warn you that your desire to hand out blocks willy-nilly has given the encyclopedia a bad name. You have made this more of hostile a place for and driven away more constructive editors than any of the actual vandals that you should be fighting ever could. (Lenerd (talk) 22:53, 25 July 2008 (UTC))

And you are right, I stand by my claim that I had done nothing wrong because if I ever thought what I was doing was disruptive I would not have done it. I understand there is a lot of vandalism that goes on, I have reverted some of it before, but that doesn't give you the right to label my edits as such and demand that I kiss your ass. (Lenerd (talk) 22:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)) Also, now if I was unblocked I would feel that I owed it to the users who "vouched" for me to steer clear of any actions that could be seen as disruptive in the future. (Lenerd (talk) 02:02, 26 July 2008 (UTC))

I've asked for review on WP:ANI#Block review for User:Lenerd. -- Ned Scott 05:30, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I kind of flew off the handle up there didn't I? (Lenerd (talk) 05:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC))

Proposed deletion of Pig Empire

Yo Lenerd, after reading your explanation above regarding Hoffman's use of the phrase, I have retracted the proposed deletion of Pig Empire. It seemed like a malicious redirect, and you had been indef blocked for vandalism among other things, so it was a likely candidate for deletion. Sorry for the trouble, and thanks for your quick response. Regards, Skomorokh 23:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)