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September 11

Category:Windows compression software

Overcategorization, see Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_August_3#Category:Free_Linux_software and concurring votes at Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_August_7#Category:Free_Mac_OS_software and Misplaced Pages:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2005_August_10#Category:Free_Windows_software. - Centrx 21:39, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

  • This feels slightly different to the others though, no? Previously, the argument rested on the fact that most free software was available on many/all platforms and didn't need to highlighted as only being available on one. Does the same apply to compression software? If yes, delete, if no keep. -Splash 01:13, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Weak keep. Categorizing all free software, and yet limiting it by OS platform, is probably a bit off in terms of logical division. But compression software is a well-defined functional purpose, so a category makes a bit more sense. Much of the Windows software for compression is not available on other platforms, so it is a bit of a separate thing. (But probably multi-platform tools like info-zip should still be in this category too; unless it is renamed Category:Windows-only compression software. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 02:08, 2005 September 12 (UTC)

Category:Political correctness

Seems to be a pretty random collection of vaguely leftwing topics that a anon considers to be examples or supporters of political correctness. I'm not really sure what topics like the anti-gun Brady Campaign, libertarian free migration, anti-AIDS AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power, and the play The Vagina Monologues are doing lumped together in a single category. Moreover political correctness is quite a loaded term. - SimonP 21:19, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

Comment it was User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters who modified the category page to add the vote for deletion, but it was User:SimonP who added the vote for deletion here. Are these two users the same person? 4.249.60.55
Not that it matters, but SimonP and I actually added the listing here simultaneously; I took my heading out and combined it with SimonP's. In the history of this page, the CfD item is briefly duplicated. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 21:36, 2005 September 11 (UTC)
  • Delete. For pretty much the reasons already presented; the category was entirely created for the purpose of expressing the anonymous user's interpretation of, among others just as important, discussions of gender, sexuality, race and general thought as little more than efforts of PC which is, in and of itself, as stated, a loaded term. Completely ridiculous and inappropriate. Zeppocity 21:38, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. POV category tag. / Alarm 22:10, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Speedy delete. Category appears to be used entirely for bad faith editorial POV purposes, none of which are grounded in substantial edits to the categorised articles and validated by any measure of consensus. If anon user demonstrates a more substantial interest in editing article bodies and can build consensus behind such edits, then perhaps this category might be shown to have merit yet. Buffyg 22:29, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, per SimonP. A category is only useful if a user can figure out what might be in it. Nandesuka 22:53, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep A perfectly good category could be put together just from the links in the political correctness article. CalJW 01:04, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep Agree with CalJW. I would also argue that categorising NPOV disputed articles is a good thing, and being able thus to navigate around, or identify a grouping of articles, is good regardless of whether it is disputed or not. Anyway, having it neatly categorised makes it easier to excise whole chunks of non-NPOV stuff later, or at least brush them under a carpet somewhere. Carcharoth 02:23, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
Comment: NPOV disputes are already categorized at Category:NPOV disputes. -- Reinyday, 02:40, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
There are over 1000 articles at Category:NPOV disputes and an appeal for people to categorise them, though maybe that is an automated appeal for an overpopulated category (not sure why anyone would want to subcategorise NPOV disputes). Anyway, that was a minor point. My main point was that the NPOV dispute is for the article. It should still be categorisable, even if it is also an NPOV dispute. More problematic is what should its parent categories be - it doesn't have any proper ones yet, as it is only a child of NPOV disputes. I also see that the category has now been depopulated except for political correctness. Carcharoth 03:31, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
Comment: I think the keep votes got the wrong idea. The category was created and a large number of irrelevant articles were added to it (SimonP mentions a few above). The editors who watched all those various pages quickly removed the category (though it took a few reverts of User:4.249.60.55's vandalism in many cases). It doesn't look as pernicious once all the articles are removed, but it's hard to see any article that could ever be added back in a NPOV way. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 03:20, 2005 September 12 (UTC)
I see your point that editors will remove this category tag if it is added to pages where they don't want it, but do they also do the same for their pages using the 'what links here' feature, and remove links to their articles from political correctness? More generally, that would imply that all NPOV disputed articles should not be categorised until the NPOV dispute tag is removed. As that will never happen for some articles, I don't see the point. Some pages will end up in this category, and it helps people organise around this concept of 'political correctness', which does exist. Carcharoth 03:31, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Swedish article rating categories

Unofficial article rating systems just won't do. Delete all. CalJW 06:27, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Strong delete. This just won't do unless and until we institute the grading system wiki-wide. Are there are any more of these groups out there? -Splash 01:13, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong delete, though they did make me laugh. -- Reinyday, 02:43, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete all. As for finding any more of these rating systems, I could only find Category:Misplaced Pages featured articles :-) The featured article category is not useful for browsing, as the links are to the talk pages. The featured article archive is better for browsing. I guess they are categorised for other reasons. Carcharoth 02:53, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Category:Railing styles

Created by Ddespie@san.rr.com for some dubious articles. Unlikely to ever be seriously used. tregoweth 06:19, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

Categories using 'Historic'

Rename: There are about 138 categories whose titles start with 'Historic' or 'Historical' or 'Historically'. This link should show them . Many are historic houses, and it looks like someone is creating a large scheme for those. Other examples of these 'historic' categories are no-longer-existing objects, like historical flags, and so forth. Though the lists at Category:Lists of historical animals is, um, interesting. Anyway, two in particular that I want to see changed are Category:Historic fires renamed to Category:Fires, and Category:Historic weather events to be manually depopulated and then deleted. But maybe this general 'historic' issue needs to be flagged for people to examine each example on a case by case basis? It would also be good to get the view of those who have experience categorising in the history sections. Carcharoth 02:29, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Definitely a case by case basis. Please don't nominate all 136 at once, but divide them into closely related groups or deal with them singly. Historic fires should be renamed, but I'm not sure about the other one, it is certainly worthwhile having a weather category that fits into history. CalJW 06:30, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
But the thing is, all events, personalities and products which are not current or recent have become, de facto, "historic". In the context here, the word is being used like "notable", which is to say as a POV device for inclusion or exclusion, or as an imposed ranking of "importance". Most definitely, rename to omit the "historic" adjectives. 12.73.198.3 13:16, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
All things which have ever occurred are historical, but not all are historic. Still, I am inclined to agree that "historic" is a near-synonym of "notable" and thus superfluous. - choster 21:11, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Historic would seem to be the kind of adjective that would normally need removing from cat/article titles. But sometimes it might be appropriate, particularly for defunct things when defunct isn't the right word. Nominate on a case-by-case basis is the only way, I think. -Splash 01:13, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
  • I had a closer look at the 138 'historic' categories, and have found the following usages of 'historic' so far - (1) 'Historic'as part of a proper name or term, as in Category:Historic civil engineering landmarks and Category:Historic houses and Category:Historic drama. That last one is a genre of opera, though that should specify opera in its title like most of the other opera genre categories. Otherwise these all seem fine. (2) 'Historic' as a synonym for 'notable', such as Category:Historic fires I'll throw these up individually for renaming votes. (3) 'Historic' in the names of stub categories, which I assume is OK. (4) 'Historic X' used instead of 'History of X', which seems to overlap with (5) 'Historic' incorrectly used as an adjective for history, instead of the correct term 'historical'. (6) 'Historic' and 'Historical' used for defunct or former objects ('historical' seems to be more correct than 'historic'), such as Category:Historic U.S. Executive Cabinet positions and Category:Historical Members of the Canadian Senate. This last use of 'Historic' and 'Historical' seems to overlap with categories named using the phrasing 'Former X' or 'Defunct X'. The U.S. Executive Cabinet positions one could be renamed 'Defunct...' and the members of the Canadian Senate one could be renamed 'Former...'. There are 71 categories using the phrasing 'Former...' and 132 using the phrasing 'Defunct...' . Is there a difference between 'Historical', 'Former' and 'Defunct', and are stylistic differences like this OK, or should standardisation be encouraged? Carcharoth 02:16, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: I think "historical" is fine, especially for large categories (meaning I think having a "historical foo" subcategory of "foo" is a helpful way of breaking up a large category). I can see renaming "Historic" in most cases, though I know that it is an official governmental designation for certain things here in California, like Historic Houses, and if the category is for such designated landmarks, it should not be renamed... -- Reinyday, 02:54, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Category:Grand Dukes of Luxembourg to Category:Dukes and Grand Dukes of Luxembourg

It was suggested in a previous Cfd that this category be renamed to handle both current and past Dukes. ∞Who?¿? 00:42, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Oppose Category:Grand Dukes of Luxembourg has all post-1890 Grand Dukes - earlier ones were from other families and notable for being Kings or Emperors of somewhere else. At most the three Dutch King Williams could also be listed (i.e. from 1815). --Henrygb 23:52, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Category:Hellenic languages and dialects

I have been unable to find out or figure out how this category is supposed to be different from Category:Greek language, which at present is a subcategory of it. On July 6, I posted a question to both Category talk:Hellenic languages and dialects and Category talk:Greek language as to what the difference is supposed to be. I got no answer. On July 29, I made an RFC for the two categories, again asking what the difference is supposed to be; still no answer. After RFC got split up into different categories, the question was put into RFC/History and geography. On September 2, I moved it to RFC/Language and linguistics; still no answer to this question. If no one knows what the difference is supposed to be, I propose moving everything from Category:Hellenic languages and dialects to Category:Greek language, deleting the former, and making the latter a subcategory of Category:Indo-European languages.