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Albert M. Wolters

Previous vfd

This article was listed for deletion before. It was deleted. I summarily undeleted on WP:IAR. Why are we deleting articles about published authors who are full professors and experts on Nova? After a bit of a kerfuffle it was undeleted and VfD'd by spinboy, and I'm completing the nomination here. --Tony Sidaway 00:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)#

• Keep. Expert on the Copper Scroll, published (non vanity) author,for which we have a notability precedent. This ancient old guy you might have seen on Nova and want to read about (you know? like in en encyclopedia?) --Tony Sidaway 00:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete --File:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 01:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Could you elaborate? I notice that the previous thingie was set off by your accusation "Non-notable boring professor". Does boringness disqualify article subjects? (If so, then boringness to me would knock out everything about Star Wars, just for starters, though I accept that this is limitlessly fascinating for many.) Or is boringness only damning when coupled with non-notability as a professor? What would make a professor notable, anyway? (Luxuriant flowing hair, perhaps?) Pray enlighten us! -- Hoary 02:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• previous vfd was unanimous consensus to delete. Ryan Norton 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • So it was. But have you actually read the article? --Tony Sidaway 02:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Self-evident Keep Snowspinner 01:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per the very fine Encephalon. - brenneman 02:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I gave that argument a read, and I think its very interesting. I was almost convinced. But I thought about what it takes to get an article written about oneself. Media outlets are likely to write articles about authors who are interesting to the general public, not academics. So, people who are quacks, but loud about it are more likely to have articles writen about them than people who are importantly contributing to true scientifc advancement. On the other hand, regular living contributors to science don't often have articles written about them, just about their work. I like the ease of application of Encephalon's critera, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be happy with the outcome. Anywho, just my two cents. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 04:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I read Encephalon's argument as well. Not sure I completely agree much for the same reason as Kzollman above. In this instance, I vote delete, for lack of the notability of the professors work and for the professor. Nothing personal, I'm sure that he's a nice guy and his students and family adore him, but I fail to see the notability. BTW thanks to Encephalon for putting the Wikipedian Physician category on my user page.—Gaff 07:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as notable religious expert with four published books to his credit.Capitalistroadster 02:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - notable academic. Guettarda 02:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as a notable academic. That is if it survives VfU, as always.Ryan Norton 02:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • VFU is broken. --Tony Sidaway 02:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete --NDP logo Earl Andrew - talk 03:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• keep good articles about marginal subjects. — brighterorange (talk) 04:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep NOVA's a good program, if they say he's good I won't question them. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 04:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete this content was already deleted, without challenge. If a new article, which shows something new (like listing writing about him, not just by him) than a different AFD result might be reasonable. Frankly, I don't like the citing of WP:IAR here. WP:IAR is about freeing individual wikipedians from mindless application of rules, not letting admins use their extra powers to do things, nobody else can do. --rob 04:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Deleted without challenge suggests that the system does not work - keeping it deleted for that reason, rather than on the basis of merit of the article, seems to be overly bureaucratic. Guettarda 06:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, as the minimal discussion that preceded the first deletion tells me this wasn't given due consideration. Seems to be a mildly notable academic expert. --Michael Snow 04:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, though it's close. The article is informative and well written. The problem is that it doesn't establish notability. Though some would disagree, I believe that a typical college professor is not notable enough to justify inclusion here. Are Mr. Wolter's publications of ongoing scholarly relevance? That is, have they been used as references in other works? Are they of general interest (Nearly all college professors publish books, but many are only purchased by their students and colleagues)? If Mr. Wolter is indeed a notable individual, the reason for his notability should be called out in the opening sentence. The present opening sentence states that he is a college professor. Tony Sidaway opines above that Wolter is an expert on the Copper Scroll. If so, the article should say that; it does not at present. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 06:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Appears to pass the "average professor test" easily. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete First, by definition, almost all academics are specialists about something; it's in the job description. This fellow's publication record and teaching history do not make him stand out above the vast number of other professors who are toiling away at their specialties. If community consensus decides that we need to have bios of every professor who has published books in their chosen field of specialty, sobeit, but I am unaware of such a consensus. Second, looking at his publication record, I am at a loss to understand the appeal to his supposed authority. Wedge, Eerdmans, Paternoster Press? These are not academic publishers of any repute; they are specialty (one might venture fringe) theological publishers with significant ideo-theological bias. His one academic publisher, Sheffield Academic Press, barely makes it above the bar. A google search for a review of his works returns no peer review of any significance that I can find. But more importantly, Tony Sidaway's decision to ignore unanimous - unaninmous - consensus last time and cite WP:IAR as a justification looks a lot to me like a blatant and outrageous arrogation of authority. It is frankly arrogant summarily to undelete this and then do nothing more, by way of explanation, than declaim "hey this guy was on TV! he has to be notable! You got it wrong." What's the point of the entire AfD process if one admin can arbitrarily decide to reverse consensus - unanimous consensus no less - and then hide behind a ruleset based on a clear misinterpretation of the subject's authority. Not only should this be removed (again), I think that the admin has provided grounds for censure and should be stripped of any power to meddle in the AfD process. Dottore So 07:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Very strong, obvious Keep, though needing clean-up. Logophile 07:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Published author, guest on a popular TV show, significant biographical information available... seems notable enough to keep. While it's true that every academic is a specialist in some field, because of his particular field and his appearance on TV, he may be of interest to a significant number of non-specialists. --Clay Collier 08:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. The excessively brief and superficial discussion on the previous nomination was nothing short of scandalous, and the insistence upon preserving the deletion because of the "process" is ludicrous. We are here to build an encyclopædia, not to construct more and more arcane methods of filtering out any content not already known to a minority of people who haunt the Deletion pages. I too read the contention by Encephalon that an author of a notable book does not himself become notable until someone else writes a book about them: what kind of twisty-little-passage logic is that? —Phil | Talk 08:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Can't decide whether he's notable or not. Depends on whether a TV appearance makes you more than an 'average professor'. However I'd just like to opine that the fact that this discussion is so much more lively than the previous one justifies the use of WP:IAR, though perhaps, at worst, it might have been "right decision, wrong reason". --Last Malthusian 08:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, seems to be notable. — JIP | Talk 09:01, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, notable author: his Creation Regained has been translated into several other languages including Dutch, Afrikaans, Korean, Japanese and Russian. The book is a key document in what has become the reformational movement. He is also an expert on the Copper Scroll SteveBish 09:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep --Ryan Delaney 09:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)