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user:Opiumjones 23's concerns

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user:BKLisenbee's concerns

There is so much misinformation on Misplaced Pages regarding the confusion over who hereditary leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka, Bachir Attar, whose father Hadj Abdesalam Attar, who was the undisputed leader of the Master Musicians of Jajouka when Brian Jones of the Rolling Stones once recorded in the village. This confusion is largely perpetrated on Misplaced Pages associated pages, Jajouka, the village; Master Musicians of Jajouka Featuring Bachir Attar; Master Musicians of Joujouka (I now feel there needs to be only one article entitled Master Musicians of Jajouka, with some information about the problems); Mohamed Hamri; Tangier; William S. Burroughs; Brion Gysin; Rolling Stones; Brian Jones Presents the Pipes of Pan at Jajouka/Joujouka, and several other Wik pages. The famous writer and composer Bowles was also dragged into this after his death, and is still being slandered by opiumjones23 on his site for Joujouka and by people he knows on various blogs, and it is disgraceful. He was accused of all kinds of misdeads, and it is still on "interviews" with opiumjones_23 and his co-workers who do his bidding on the Web. Unverified "facts" have been repeated so often that people are now beginning to believe them, and Misplaced Pages's Jajouka / Joujouka / Hamri / Brion Gysin/ Pipes of Pan have a major role in perpetrating confusion, misinformation, disinformation, and even slander and libel on occasion, via links on its pages, so I hope there can be a resolution.

Trivia, babel and totally unrelated information and personal names and links to outside sites are still on User opiumjones_23 and User Talk Discussion pages, indexed in Google and perhaps other search engines, so that trivia and noninvolved parties names are turning up the Misplaced Pages user page when searches are being done on their names. This is the kind of thing that makes Misplaced Pages look bad. Yes, there are problems with Misplaced Pages. It is perhaps time for higher ups in Administration to take notice. It is also a fact that many professors at universities and colleges now give automatic failing grades in courses to students who use Misplaced Pages as references in their papers. I understand why, based on this "controversy" largely stirred up by Hamri, opiumjones_23 and his art-terrorist friend who has been involved. Though the latter is not editing on Misplaced Pages, his sites are being used as references also, and he is quoted that he does not believe in the laws of libel. (to be continued).

The place of birth of the painter Mohamed Hamri is wrong on Misplaced Pages. opiumjones_23 wrote an obituary saying he was born in Ksar-el-Kebir, Morocco (still a "reputable" source on Misplaced Pages), and Misplaced Pages says Hamri was born in Joujouka. The same obituary says that Hamri was immortalized by Paul Bowles in a book, and it turns out that it was Brion Gysin's book The Process where Hamri was "immortalized" as a character. This same obituary calls a totally illiterate an "intellectual". Now opiumjones_23 has changed his tune to say that a limited-edition art pamphlet "biography" (not a real book) about the artist Mohamed Hamri, written by an Irishman who fooled many people over years, into believing that he would be the next king of Ireland, can be taken as fact, since it claims Hamri was born in Joujouka (sic), Morocco. This same writer extorted millions of dollars/euros/pounds from others and is forbidden to travel to his native country. The former Irish "prince" or "Mor" was not royalty at all; he was a total fake, and proven to be so, yet this man's pamphlet is being used as the sole justification for a Misplaced Pages footnote/reference to claim that Hamri was born in the village where his mother was from. On the other hand, several notable books, have references to Hamri as being born in Ksar-el-Kebir,Morocco; thus I think this definitely needs to be changed to Ksar-el-Kebir. It needs also to be noted that Hamri was never a musician. Since the "obituary" by opiumjones_23 also says Hamri was an "intellectual" I would like it noted on wikipedia that he was illiterate, and footnotes and references can also state facts that in his early life he was well-known in Tangier as a petty thief and smuggler.

The discussion/edits by opiumjones23 have been contentious, and long disrupted the lives of innocent people, causing nightmares, and I was once threatened with legal action. Many times in the past few years my edits were reverted by him and others. I began editing on the Jajouka and Master Musicians of Jajouka pages because I saw the group spelled as Joujouka, when I was familiar with the current leader, Bachir Attar, who lives in the village. opiumjones23 has repeatedly tried to say that his musicians represent the "original" group, but he has gone well beyond this to repeatedly discredit Attar, whose father was the hereditary leader of the group. Thus, as I see it, much of this has spread to blogs and only today I found a blog which seems to perpetrate this notion. It could be as a result of Misplaced Pages's having two separate pages, one for Master Musicians of Jajouka (which opiumjones23 felt should be redirected to Master Musicians of Jajouka featuring Bachir Attar). This redirection should be eliminated. The other band of musicians, is what opiumjones23 calls the Master Musicians of Joujouka.

The spelling of the village is commonly used in the West, and reputable sources and references, and many books, as Jajouka, and the name of the group spelled Jajouka. Invariably, these books have used knowledgeable sources and interviews, to accurately I feel spell the name of both the far more popular group as Jajouka, and it is led by Bachir Attar.

I will also say that this Master Musicians of Jajouka/Joujouka dispute seems to have come about beginning in the 1990s when Mohamed Hamri, a Moroccan painter, who was illiterate and a close friend of Brion Gyin who once lived in Tangier. There is confusion as to the commonly accepted spelling of the village as Jajouka caused by consistent references to a Master Musicians of Joujouka on Misplaced Pages. I had long ago put on a simple MSN Encarta link showing the spelling and precise location of the village on the Jajouka page (for the village). Someone removed this, and for clarity's sake, it really should be there, along with other map references to the village, which I have visited only once. A pronounciation of the village by Mohamed Hamri, who was illiterate, has been used as Joujouka. But it is a pronounciation, not turned into a spelling by opiumjones_23, who knew Hamri well, and his wife, and who has put out a mere 3 CDs using Joujouka as a spelling for his band. But the origin of the spelling may have come from Hamri, and from that point in the early 1950s Brion Gysin first spelled the name of the village and the famous musicians as Joujouka. More important, however, is the fact that both Brion Gysin and William S. Burroughs, who learned of this music through his friend Gysin, in their quoted writings and reliable references in books later spelled the village name and the music group as Jajouka, or Master Musicians of Jajouka. Here are some of the references to the preeminent and commonly used spelling in published books (not tiny pamplets as in the case of the Hamri reference mentioned above, which as I have said, was written by a fraudulent individual claiming to be the inheritor of the King of Ireland, which much has been written about exposing this fact.

Let's get to the commonly accepted spelling of the Master Musicians from the village. Please look at Google Books, which has indexed many of the books for reading, a very useful feature. You can start by going to Google Books, then search on Master Musicians of Jajouka, and you will find many sources, and can read much of the contents online. I did this yesterday and forwarded it to the administrator Fayssal, who is trying to help settle this matter to the satisfaction of all parties concerned, not just me and opiumjones_23. While I can understand that he, as producer of only 3 CDs of his largely unknown band of "Joujouka" musicians wants to be acknowledged, the fact of the matter is that he has gone out of his way to discredit the hereditary leader of the very group whose music has been around for over 1,000 years, widely credited as being the first "World Music" group. But his use of Brian Jones and Brion Gysin, and Hamri and William Burroughs, as well as his extra-Misplaced Pages use of the Internet, blogs, and interviews, all with him, give only a one-sided and distorted picture of the history of the music and the group. There is one group, and one leader, and it is the Master Musicians of Jajouka led by Bachir Attar. That is what most reputable sources say. I and user Emerman, who I have been accused of being, who I am not, have never seen in print any documentation showing that his Joujouka is the "original" group. Beat Generation figures are used to attempt to justify his position, but the books and references I have read point to The Master Musicians of Jajouka, and the village is spelled almost consistently, with one or two scholarly exceptions, as Jajouka. The Master Musicians of Jajouka group whose father was the undisputed leader at the time of the Brian Jones recording in 1969 was Bachir's father, not the Ahmed El Attar that opiumjones_23 claims. Where is his documentation for this in some reputable source? One group, one music, one page on Misplaced Pages for this group seems to be the correct way to proceed. It is clearly the Master Musicians of Jajouka.