This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jayjg (talk | contribs) at 19:28, 17 October 2005 (→Users certifying the basis for this dispute). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 19:28, 17 October 2005 by Jayjg (talk | contribs) (→Users certifying the basis for this dispute)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)In order to remain listed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute with a single user, not different disputes or multiple users. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: {insert UTC timestamp with 23:36, 16 October 2005 (UTC)}), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 12:55, 27 December 2024 (UTC).
- (FuelWagon | talk | contributions)
Users should only edit one summary or view, other than to endorse.
Statement of the dispute
FuelWagon is often hostile towards editors that disagree with him, which results in an unpleasant editing environment. He also has a tendency to make disputes personal rather than focus on the content.
Description
FuelWagon has been an editor on Misplaced Pages since April 2005. After reverting warring on Terri Schiavo for several months, he was eventually blocked on 12 July 2005 by User:Ed Poor for 40 hours "unrepentant personal attacks" block log. I first encountered him on Misplaced Pages:Words to avoid, where he was openly hostile to editors who disagreed with his opinion (he was seeking to eliminate the use of the phrase "conspiracy theory"). More recently he's displayed similar behavior at Terrorism and Misplaced Pages:Request for comment.
Note about the reason for this RfC
FuelWagon implied in his response below that this RfC was the result of comments he made in Zephram Stark's RfC. This is incorrect, as I have explained to FuelWagon several times .
This RfC was the due to FuelWagon's hostile behavior towards multiple editors over an extended period of time. His comments on Zephram's RfC did prompt me to inquire why he posted there. I also stated "FYI, I am considering an RfC to address your hostility against multiple editors on multiple pages. I've personally asked you several times to cease the hostile attitude, but that doesn't appear to have worked. I'm asking you once again to be more civil and not create or exacerbate tension between editors."
FuelWagon's implication that this RfC is only about a few comments he made on another RfC couldn't be further from the truth. A large number of diffs have already been provided below; the vast majority of which have nothing to do with Zephram's RfC. Carbonite | Talk 13:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Evidence of disputed behavior
(Provide diffs. Links to entire articles aren't helpful unless the editor created the entire article. Edit histories also aren't helpful as they change as new edits are performed.)
- "Moron. Republican held senate majority for 6 of clinton's years. That is a simple fact. even if you whitewash it, the assert goes later. rewrote it."
- Implies that a revert of his edit was due to "POV pushing"
- After Slim Virgin provides a reason for the revert, FuelWagon's comment ends with "OK, that excuse didn't work, time to shift tactics and come up with a completely different one."
- Carbonite questions the inclusion of the quote by asking why a notable activist such as Chomsky should be quoted, but not another such as Sean Penn. FuelWagon again ends his comment with the sarcastic "Would you care to try again? Perhaps you can compare Noam Chomsky to Paris Hilton."
- Carbonite responds by saying "Once again, please tone down your hostility. I'd prefer that this discussion be a bit more civilized." FuelWagon response includes the statement "Hostility? Hey, man, you were the one who mentioned Sean Penn. Now that I come back with the same flippant attidute and mention Paris Hilton, you want to call it hostility. Sorry, it works both ways. If you can dish it out, be prepared to take some as well."
- After continues to push the Chomsky quote into the article, FuelWagon questions the motives of Jayjg and Carbonite with "Hey, carbonite, jayjg, fancy meeting you here. Fancier still seeing back to back reverts by you two. Imagine that."
- FuelWagon contimues to taunt Jayjg about the Chomsky quote. "Hey, Jayjg, the Chomsky quote is relevant and a bunch of POV pushers are trying to delete it. I found a verbatim quote, a URL, and sufficient justification for why Chomsky counts as a notable source. Now, I recall that during the "wikistalking" proposed policy, the great many people opposed the idea of making it policy because content wins out over someone's personal feelings. So, you wanna talk about how your feeling thinking I'm stalking you? Or you wanna talk about content?"
- FuelWagon taunts Carbonite on Carbonite's talk page "Nice to see the admins sticking together. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside."
- In response to a revert war he's engaged in on another page Misplaced Pages:Request for comment, FuelWagon tells Carbonite "As far as I'm concerned, you're all the same."
- FuelWagon posts an "outside" view on Zephram Stark's RfC, which had been inactive for over three weeks. He uses this forum to attack the actions of "SlimVirgin, Jayjg, Carbonite, and Texture...", while barely touching on the action of Zephram Stark.
- After Carbonite inquires as to why FuelWagon posted the hostile summary on Zephram's RfC, FuelWagon provides weak justification (a link to Zephram's ArbCom case had been posted on his talk page 9 days prior). FuelWagon also ignore Carbonite request "I'm asking you once again to be more civil and not create or exacerbate tension between editors.".
- FuelWagon responds with yet another hostile comment, accusing Carbonite of threatening him with an RfC.
- FuelWagon uses Zephram Stark's ArbCom evidence page to air his grievances about Carbonite, SlimVirgin and Jayjg.
- FuelWagon attacks Jayjg on Jayjg's talk page for reverting one of his edits on Misplaced Pages:Request for comment.
- Attacks a newbie, User:Adam1213 for his signature and misunderstanding the definition of vandalism. "Your signature is the sign of someone crying out for attention." and "Hey, vandalism boy, you get on the counter-vandalism unit, someone gives you a title, and you think you can declare whatever you want to be vandalism?"
- Responds to a comment from User:El C with hostile remarks: "Your intention was clear from the beginning: you are SlimVirgin's proxy warrior. You were involved in teh original RfC against SlimVirgin and you were her heavy hitter then, assaulting Neuroscientist for criticising poor helpless SlimVirgin. And now you're swinging the bat again in SlimVirgin's defense. You are biased. You are engaged. and you are acting at her request now as before. Don't get all self righteous on me, it doesn't suit you."
- Accuses Jayjg of being SlimVirgin's meatpuppet. "ANd the only reason you're here is because you're SlimVirgin's meatpuppet." Later retracts the statement with a similarly hostile remark "I stand corrected. Jayjg is not a meatpuppet. He's simply a POV warrior."
Applicable policies
{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}
Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute
(provide diffs and links)
- Carbonite replies to FuelWagon "FuelWagon, please try to tone down the hostility of your reponses (or at least the last sentences of them."
- Carbonite tells FuelWagon "I'm finding your behavior to be rather disruptive and running counter to the goal of creating an encyclopedia."
- SlimVirgin sent two e-mails to FuelWagon on August 26 in an effort to resolve the dispute, but his responses were not conciliatory and there was no change in his subsequent behavior. SlimVirgin's e-mails can be read at User:SlimVirgin/FW, but FW's replies have been withheld (unless he gives his permission).
Users certifying the basis for this dispute
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Other users who endorse this summary
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Response by Zephram Stark
Picture a little Cartman running around Misplaced Pages saying, "Respect my authority, or I will RfC you!" Now read what Carbonite said on FuelWagon's talk page and see if you can tell the difference.
When FuelWagon refused to join Carbonite's lynch mob, Carbonite threatened to RfC him. Anyone with self-respect is naturally going to tell Cartmanite to stick his threats directly up his over-sized big-wheel. Any "evidence" that C-man presents wasn't a problem until FuelWagon refused to subjugate himself. --Zephram Stark 00:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Response
This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete. Users signing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Outside Views") should not edit the "Response" section.
Vizcarra informed me of the RfC against Zaphram. (I believe it was because Vizcarra was involved in a dispute with SlimVirgin and Jayjg, and somehow he learned that I was involved in a dispute with SlimVirgin and Jayjg as well.) I check out the RfC. It points to the Terrorism article. I go to the Terrorism article and try to insert a verbatim quote from a notable source with a URL to verify its accuracy. Many of the editors who had RfC'ed Zaphram attempt to revert my quotation and work in unison to delete it, downplay it, or similar.
the RfC against Zaphram opens with the following statement of dispute:
- Zephram Stark, and nobody else, has persistently claimed that there is something deeply and fundamentally wrong with the article's introduction. Despite receiving no support whatsoever and overwhelming opposition, he has stubbornly continued repeating the same complaints and frequently making low-quality changes agreed to by nobody except himself.
- With his thick-headedness he is single-handedly holding this article hostage.
It seemed obvious to me that this "Statement of Dispute", which was certified and endorsed by many editors, had made Zaphram into a scapegoat, blaming him for all the troubles at Terrorism, and whitewashing the behaviour of any other editors involved. I posted a comment on the RfC. You can read it in full here Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Zephram Stark#Outside_view_by_FuelWagon. By all means, if you find a breach of policy in that comment, then please point it out. My crime was simply opposing the whitewashing.
Within an hour of posting my comment to the RfC, Carbonite comes to my talk page and accuses me of being disruptive, hostile, and uncivil, and indicates he is thinking of RfC'ing me. He can claim that it wasn't my comments that were the cause of this RfC, but events clearly show that one hour after I make a comment critical of his behaviour as an editor on the Zaphram RfC, Carbonite is threatening me with an RfC. Five hours after putting my comment on the Zaphram RfC, Carbonite has created this RfC.
Carbonite tells me the RfC against Zaphram was inactive, but since RfC's basically live forever and the "summary of dispute" was so grossly one-sided, I thought it warrranted a comment. Carbonite informed me that the RfC had moved on to arbitration, so I submit the same evidence to arbitration (reformatting to meet arbcom requirements). You can read that evidence here. Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Zephram_Stark/Evidence#Evidence_presented_by_User:FuelWagon And by all means, if you can find a single policy violation in that evidence, I'd appreciate anyone pointing it out.
Finally, some editors are now trying to retrofit the charges to make it appear as if they had a dispute with me for many, many months. I was blocked by Ed Poor on 21:02 July 12 for NPA violations. And I have not broken NPA since. There is no NPA violation "dispute" because it was resolved as of July 12, 2005.
My "crime" is filing a comment on an RfC and submitting evidence to arbcom that was critical of a number of the editors who created this RfC and who have certified or endorsed it. Any other "evidence" against me basically boils down to calling an editor's behaviour like I see it: the blame for the dispute around the Terorism article didn't rest solely on Zaphram's shoulders. I tried to insert a verbatim quote from a notable source with a URL to verify it's accuracy into the Terrorism article. Carbonite, Texture, SlimVirgin, and Jayjg acted as a pack to keep it out. There is no justification that I can see for them to do this, other than they are used to getting their way, and will RfC people who oppose them. There are no policy violations in the evidence I submitted to RfC or to arbcom regarding Zephram. There are no policy violations by me in the various talk pages. I simply opposed Carbonite, Texture, SlimVirgin, and Jayjg's edits, so they RfC'ed me.
Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):
Outside view
This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute. Users editing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Response") should not edit the "Outside Views" section, except to endorse an outside view.
{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.}
DISCLAIMER: I am not directly involved with the Terrorism dispute, and don't know one of the editors certifying this dispute. The other editor, Carbonite, I do know, but I am not involved with his dispute with FuelWagon, so I qualify as an outside view.
FuelWagon has indeed caused problems by exaggerating the weight of some matters of minimal importance and trivializing the weight of other matters, and taking pot-shots at The Register newspaper I edit sometimes, when it was used as a source to document some even that was not covered in mainstream media, and this after my use of my "vanity" link was approved by at least one other editor not affiliated with The Register: "The only link of yours that is proper is one that covers important legal information covered nowhere else. I'll let other editors decide if that article is important enough, but the others have to go...- Taxman Talk 23:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC)"
In addition, he did use inappropriate language in a burst of anger on one occasion to User:SlimVirgin.
However, he has since not used rude language, and furthermore, he has contributed greatly to the article, with one result being that I recently awarded him a barnstar and encouraged him to keep an eye on things if I got too busy to edit due to real life things.
Carbonite is not totally wrong in his RfC here, and in his criticisms of me in my recent RfA, he was not totally wrong, but in both my RfA and FuelWagon's RfC, I think that Carbonite exaggerates a little bit the magnitude of the problems. Finally, even were all the accusations of the two certifying editors true, we must remember that this is an unpaid job, and thus not expect too much: If we make a mountain out of a molehill, we will get an ulcer or stress out over an unpaid job. Do we really want to do that? (Can't we all just get along?)
That being said, Wagon does make mistakes, and I can direct you to the Terri Schiavo article and talk pages. Are not all the works, both good and evil, of User:FuelWagon recorded in the Chronicle of the acts of Terri Schiavo?--GordonWatts 05:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):
Outside view
This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute. Users editing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Response") should not edit the "Outside Views" section, except to endorse an outside view.
Fuel was slightly overagressive in his behavior, and needs to focus on WP:COOL. The attempts to resolve the dispute by Carbonite were incredibly weak. Threatening an RFC is not an attempt to resolve a dispute. Having attempted to edit the article in question before, I find the behavior of the endorsers to be overagressive in defending the status quo - and I was not doing anything with respect to POV. Apologies, I confued my parties.
Discussion
All signed comments and talk not related to a vote or endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page. Discussion should not be added below. Discussion should be posted on the talk page. Threaded replies to another user's vote, endorsement, evidence, response, or comment should be posted to the talk page.