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Talk:Anti-Americanism

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Cultural Freedom (talk | contribs) at 17:58, 25 December 2008 (→Tiger Force). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Special note: To avoid an external link farm, the numerous articles posted on the subject have been moved to Talk:Anti-Americanism/External link

Bad Quotation?

Is this quote right - I don't have the source, but I don't think the grammar is right. "the belief that what underlies all U.S. actions is a desire to take over or remake the world"

Incessant Use of One-Sided Sources

Here is a New York Times review of three scholars cited in this work, Barry and Judy Rubin, Hollander, and Jean-Francois Revel. The review is by Johnathan Tepperman, senior editor of Foreign Affairs. The article characterizes the scholars (variously) as "conservative, polemical, pedantic, wildly discursive and undisciplined, united by rage at America's enemies -- with a venom that mirrors the anti-Americans' own."

So? That just shows these matters are debated, right? Sure, but this article cites Rubin et. al: 14 times. It cites Hollander 5 times. Largeused (talk) 11:48, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to make positive contributions to the article. Colin4C (talk) 22:29, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Gee, thanks for the permission. The idea is to have a conversation about what is best and work together. Maybe you could feel free to do that. Largeused (talk) 00:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
How about tagging, as a start, unbalanced sections with {{Unbalanced}} tags and lopsided snippets therein with {{lopsided}} tags? Better yet, per WP:NPOV#Balance, add cite-supported material to balance lopsidedness. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 23:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

POV

Please note that this article is about anti-American attitudes and actions, not a venue for listing bad things the Americans may or may not have done. Colin4C (talk) 22:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Please note the bad things Americans have done causes attitudes labelled "anti-American." Largeused (talk) 01:06, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but we should stay focused on the anti-American reactions, which were real and often creative - particularly in regard to South American literature (which is what I know most about). The usual fallacy is to assume that other countries were and are just passive victims of American Imperialism and to then construct a martyrology of victimhood. As well to bear in mind that there were and are active pro-American attitudes as well. Colin4C (talk) 18:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
This is impossible, because it is a value judgement: "stay focused on the anti-American reactions." There's no consensus about what it means, as the article itself says: "used in an impressionistic manner, resulting in an incoherent nature". This is your personal POV and has nothing to do with "we" should do in the article: "The usual fallacy is to assume that other countries were and are just passive victims of American Imperialism and to then construct a martyrology of victimhood". Largeused (talk) 06:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
That is just your POV. Colin4C (talk) 12:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
I see that anti-Americans are once again taking over the editing of this article. I understand that many people try to use Misplaced Pages as their own personal blog, but that's not what it's for. Listing a bunch of poopie things Americans are alleged to have done is not a sensible way to contribute to this article. Would an article on anti-Semitism have a list of what's REALLY BAD about Jews? --Cultural Freedom 2008-11-30 15:19 (UTC)
It's an uphill task here trying to counter-act the simplistic notions and conceptual vacancy of the axe grinders. This article should be about the (negative) reactions to whatever it is the Americans may or may not have done. These reactions were real and happened in real time/space and were exhaustively recorded in documents and books and are exhaustively analysed in other books and articles. For instance the latest terror attacks in Mumbai targeted Americans (Britons and Jews). This is a fact. The question on whether these reactions against the Americans (or Britons or Jews etc) were 'justified' or not, is not something which a wikipedia editor is qualified to judge. We are not an international court of judges, merely recorders. Colin4C (talk) 19:28, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Tiger Force

Just to say that contrary to what the article states, the Tiger Force operation in Vietnam did not create widespread outrage against America. The facts about the war crimes committed in this operation were only revealed about 2002 as I recall and didn't create any particular reaction against America as far as I am aware. This article should stay focused on anti-American reactions not become a list of 'wicked things the Americans did'. Colin4C (talk) 22:01, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I would recommend eliminating the whole section about the Vietnam War, at least for now. It makes no sense as written (though my addition makes the section slightly less imbalanced). --Cultural Freedom 2008-12-25 16:37 (UTC)
I agree with you. Otherwise I suggest that the editor who created it does some research on the subject. E.g. from what I know, the Soviets capitalised greatly on the Vietnam war in order to promote and justify anti-Americanism. And, as already mentioned in another section in the article, Che Guevara, for one, wanted to create another Vietnam in South America as part of a broad, world-wide anti-American coalition. Colin4C (talk) 16:49, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the Soviets were brilliant "cultural cold warriors". Let's give the editor who created this section a few days to respond. If there's no response, I'll delete the section. --Cultural Freedom 2008-12-25 17:58 (UTC)

Supposedly

this is a pretty idiotic statement... "Australia supposedly has an anti-American undercurrent." I live in Australia and i know plenty of anti-americans and pro-americans (more anti than pro). So we don't supposedly have an anti-American undercurrent. MANY DO HAVE!!! perhaps instead it should something along the lines of, "Australia has both an anti-American and pro-American undercurrent"

Much of this article is in a pretty sorry state. However, wikipedia doesn't allow original research so what you suggest isn't a good idea. Better to just delete the nonsense instead.
—Apis (talk) 12:04, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

"terrorists and war criminals ... School of the Americas"

In the section Latin America is the line "the training of terrorists and war criminals in the School of the Americas". Seems a little one sided here. Certainly critcism can be levied at the School of the Americas, but that line suggests that the training of "terrorists and war criminals" was the full intent and purpose of the organization rather than a consequence. Jbarta (talk) 00:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

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