This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Karl Meier (talk | contribs) at 11:13, 24 October 2005 (~RfA). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 11:13, 24 October 2005 by Karl Meier (talk | contribs) (~RfA)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)Welcome!
Hi OceanSplash! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Misplaced Pages community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.
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Happy editing! -Platypus Man | Talk 12:09, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Your edits
Hi Ocean, thanks for your note. The problem with your edits is threefold. (1) First, they are highly POV. This is not, in and of itself, a problem, because we want all majority and significant-minority POVs to be represented. However, we need to use good sources, and the more controversial or hard-hitting the POV, the better the source should be. (2) What counts as a good source is much debated, but most editors agree, and the policies state, that anonymous posters on personal websites can't be used, because we don't know who they are, or what their qualifications are for making the statement being attributed to them. We publish material only if it has already been published in a credible publication. (3) You're attempting to use the Ali Sina website in a number of different places, a website you're clearly connected to in some way, and self-promotion is poorly regarded here. See Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not.
Criticism of Islam (and everything else) is welcomed, but it has to be written in a scholarly or encyclopedic style, well-sourced to academics, journalists, theologians, political commentators, and the like; and it shouldn't cross into bigotry. Someone who has made many of the points you're making is Nick Cohen of The Observer. He might be someone you can use as a source. Cheers, SlimVirgin 21:54, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
- Dear Slim
- How can my contributions be personal POV when all I do is quote others? What I quote is the other side of the coin. They are of course different from the side that Muslims want to show. Nonetheless they are not MY personal views. They are views of a great number of people that I feel are not presented adequately in Misplaced Pages. Why they are not presented? Because Muslims delete them! That is censorship of thought. It happens only in fascistic states. It should not be allowed in democracies.
- Is the anonymity of Ali Sina a problem? How can he show his face when there are so many eager Muslims willing to slit his throat? Is Ali Sina notable? A Google search with “Faith Freedom International” results in 200,000 entries. The same search with “Tiger Wood” results in 268,000 entries and a search with “Ibn Warraq” results in 104,000 entries. By the way, no one has seen the face of Ibn Warraq either. At what point someone become notable enough so we can quote him/her? If FFI is not notable, what about my other citations? Why they are systematically being removed? Let us say I am a supporter of FFI! Does this disqualify me to post anything in Misplaced Pages? Does this allow Muslims to systematically revert the pages that I edit? Aren’t Muslims supporters of Islam to a much greater degree? I am not a follower of FFI, they are followers of Islam. There is something that does not add up.
- You say criticism of Islam is welcome but it should not cross into bigotry? You are implying that my contributions were bigotry. No offence taken. Just can you please tell me which part exactly, so I become more aware in future? Can you call a person bigot just because he has views contrary to yours? Isn’t it bigotry to allow only the views of Muslims and eliminate the opposing views? Can you please explain why you always protect the pages that I edit after Muslims already have reverted it? Is that a coincidence? Please restore my confidence in your impartiality dear Slim. I do not agree with any of your accusations about me presenting my personal POV. Since you have implied that, I urge you to be very specific and like a good lawyer go through my contributions and show me where I broke the rules of Wilipedia. Did I present my original research or did I give personal POV? Please don’t speak generalities. Please be specific. I disagree with all the charges you made against me and I am saddened to see that you always protect the pages favoring Muslims. This does not smell right! It is not an overwhelming evidence of you impartiality. I want you to stand behind your accusations and show where I broke the rules of Wikepedia. You stated you are not motivated by religious fervor. I want to believe you but please help me do it. Thank you, I will check Nick Cohen’s. I think I read something about him before. Cheers OceanSplash (23:24 23 October 2005)
- Hi again Ocean, almost all your contributions have violated WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. I urge you again to read them very carefully, along with Misplaced Pages:Verifiability and Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources.
- FFI gets 198,000 Google hits, but most of them are repetitive. It gets only 156 unique hits (this was 121 the last time I checked, in case you notice an inconsistency between posts). Tiger Woods, on the other hand, gets over six million, and I don't know how many unique ones, but a lot. I agree that it's a pity Ali Sina feels he has to hide his identity, but the problem is only in part that he's anonymous: it's also that he self-publishes on a personal website.
- Finally, I agree that some of your edits at Islamophobia should be allowed to stand. I suggest you agree to remove the Ali Sina quote, and then ask the other editors on the page if they will allow the other quotes. Finding a compromise is the way to resolve content disputes. Cheers, SlimVirgin 23:49, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
- Hi Slim
- My apologies, I think I misspelled Tiger Woods name in my search (I wrote Wood). So you are right. However, the point was not to compare a golf player to a writer. I also mentioned Ibn Warraq which is a more appropriate comparison. Anyway, what I am interested is to have the views opposing those of Muslims also posted with fairness. It does not matter if they are not Ali Sina’s. We can remove his citations if that solves the problem.
- I also asked you to be specific how I violated the rules of Wikepedia. You repeated again your accusation without being specific. This is like a cop giving you a ticket saying you violated all the traffic law without telling you why, when and where. Such tickets will not stand in any court. Please dear Slim, once again, I urge you to be specific. Since you repeatedly accused me of violation of ALL wikipedia rules I beg you to be specific. Would you please do that or at least do that in future if you decide to accusing me of violations? Thank you again. Cheers OceanSplash 00:50 24 October 2005
An RfA
I thought that you might be interested in this request for adminship: Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Anonymous editor -- Karl Meier 11:13, 24 October 2005 (UTC)