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Village Pump - Archive

DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE.

Discussions older than 7 days (date of last made comment) are moved here. These dicussions will be kept archived for 7 more days. During this period the discussion can be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate. After 7 days the discussion will be permanently removed.

Post replies at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical), copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

Note: Please add new material at the bottom of the page. Preceded by the following: =Sections archived on ~~~~~ =

Sections archived on 13:35, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Problem: thumb for animated gif does not work

There is a problem with creating a thumb for animated gifs: The first frame is reduced in size, the follow-up frames aren't, and the image becomes a mess. Here is the sample code that I tried (for use in de:Charge-coupled_Device):

]

The image is from Wikimedia Commons.

IMHO, there should be an option to avoid animation on thumnails anyway, or maybe this should be the default. These flickering images are quite annoying when reading text. Currently, the only way out is a ] link, but a thumb would be helpful for the reader. -Anastasius zwerg 17:41, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Resizing animations doesn't work. I think this is because the server that produces reduced-size images can't handle resizing. Cheers, ] 17:43, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I have found a workaround in the meanwhile, based on :en:User:Duncharris/playbox. I have created a non-animated thumb and uploaded as a separate image. The code is this:

<div class="thumb tright">
<div style="width:182px;">
]
<div class="thumbcaption">]</div>
<div class="thumbcaption">descriptive text...
(])</div>
</div>
</div>

Unfortunately, clicking on the thumb only opens the thumb, not the animation. "Play" animation runs the animation alone, "Source and more info" shows the Wikimedia Commons page with the animation. Better solutions are welcome. --Anastasius zwerg 18:42, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Signature

Hello. I have a question about my signature.

My wikiName is Serhiodudnic (12 characters). For the signature I use(in the field SpecialPages->NickName - I have checked "Raw signatures"): "] ]", well there is like this "] ]", but this is not work. I would my signature shows like this: nickname (talk), but in page it shows like this: nickname (talk)

Why?

Perhaps you are testing it on your talk page? If a link would link to the page it's on, it goes bold instead of linking as normal. --Ashenai 18:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh, yes! Really! Thank you very much! :)

serhio 18:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Happy to help! *bings* --Ashenai 18:40, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Can I insert a image in the signature? (but the image links to my page)

You can, but it is suggested that you don't because of the load it causes on the servers. See: Misplaced Pages:Transclusion_costs_and_benefits#Emergency_measures and Misplaced Pages:Avoid using meta-templates - Trevor MacInnis (Talk | Contribs) 04:43, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. If it is a servers question, I will not set a image in my signature; anyway, of "script point of view" I don't see in what way I can insert in the place of my nick name a image. I have tryed: " <a link="http://myWikiPage"><img src="http://mylocation/myImage.jpg"></a>" but this don't work...

11:29, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think there's a way to include off-site images. — PhilHibbs | talk 13:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Due to copyright issues, remote loading/hotlinking issues, etc. the <img /> tag is one of those stripped out by the sanitising parser. Rob Church 10:45, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

A very strange password/impostor problem

Today I created accounts, using my real name (Paul Klenk, just like my user name) at de.wiki, fr.wiki, ja.wiki, pl.wiki, it.wiki, sv.wiki, nl.wiki, and pt.wiki. (This is to protect/maintain my identity across these sites, and assist with a possible future project.)

At the exact moment I was creating these accounts, a vandal created an imposter account at the Spanish site, with my name, Paul Klenk (es:User talk:Paul Klenk). He claimed to be me, "Paul Klenk from New York". The vandal account has been blocked.

I am trying to figure out a way to solve this problem. I do have an inquiry at es.wiki, but because of the language barrier, it is a bit tricky to communicate.

How do we change this Spanish account's password temporarily so I can take over the account? Can the e-mail address be checked and or changed? (It is not set up to receive e-mail, or I would try to write the person.)

If you have expertise with this, please let me know.

paul klenk 23:38, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I have set up a temporary account, called es:User:Temporary Username, at the Spanish site. I do not speak Spanish. If a Spanish/English-speaking user would like to correspond with me at that site, that is fine with me. I am checking messages there. paul klenk

Try looking at m:embassyDunc|☺ 21:35, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

dunc, thanks for reminding me I left this here! I am working with several admins at es:wiki. They are considering giving me the account, but have not reached a consensus and are still waiting for other admins to weigh in. We may be able to take care of this solely at es:wiki, but if an admin here would like to just fix the problem and give me the page, I certainly wouldn't object!!! LOL. paul klenk 21:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

An administrator has no control over user accounts other than blocking and unblocking them. Only a developer can hand the account over to you; it would require modification of the entry in the users table.

Incidentally, there is no way for anyone to see your password; it's hashed one-way, and so even the developer team can't actually go and get it/decrypt it. Rob Church 10:47, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

IIRC beurocracts could rename the vandal account out of the way allowing it to be re-registered though. Plugwash 22:04, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Example

Info	Play	help
	Play
This is my idea for how a play box should work and what it should look like.

	Play
This one is similar but without the text. Which is better?

There is a current problem with playing sounds. I have therefore devised a playbox which is here on the right. If it looks like an image box, that's because basically it is. It's not that pretty at the moment, but that can be easily fixed.

There are three columns each with a link and a button (which we'll have to get these made to look pretty but these placeholders are okay for the moment):

1. Indicates whether it is a sound file or a video file, e.g. be a copy of http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/icons/fileicon-ogg.png for ogg file. Clicking the link or icon takes you through to the image description page and more data about the file.
2. Clicking on the second play icon plays/downloads the file.
3. For help because these files are quite complicated.

The caption goes beneath the box, as with pictures.

There are also a few formatting issues that needs to be sorted out as all of it ought to be blue and there are white lines where the table is. I'm also not sure that the text and the icons are required, maybe just the icons with alt text would suffice.

Still, neat, eh?

Comments

Please comment here. If you like it vote for it and it'll get noticed. Please say whether you prefer the version with or without the text. I think I'm inclining towards the one without the text. Dunc|☺ 11:47, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

• I don't particularly like the example-image for the info, but the play button, could probably be included in {{listen}}. Also, I prefer a written example for people seeking help with their media. Why don't you like the current template? - Mgm| 12:42, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the problem with the current system are:

1. That ] encourages linking through without going through the image description page first (very important for fair use copyrights), but also misses out on lengthy caption which is possible on such pages
2. That the template does not offer the option of a caption to appear on the page.
3. That template does not lead to
4. That use of a template is rather messy

I have template:soundbox which is perhaps a little better, but I'd like to do this automatically. Perhaps I should get some proper icons drawn, since the ones above are placeholders. hmm. Dunc|☺ 20:09, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think you need the help icon that prominent. Most of the content we have here is provided with little or no explanation of its mechanics. For example the image enlarging has this tiny little double-picture image. If you see it you can work out what it means, and yet it's not intrusive if you know what you're doing. This isn't like MS Office's Tip of the Day that can be dismissed forever at the click of a button, whatever design is chosen will be unchangeable so we need to think about helping new users without constantly insulting the intelligence of regulars. Perhaps the help icon could be of the same scale as the magnifying one, or at the most 32x32 (though that's probably pushing it).

Also, future-proofing. Some day MediaWiki will no doubt have the ability to extract a first frame preview from video footage. Where then does that image go? Alternately, if the contributor decides to manually take a sample frame to include in the media box (this is being experimented with for the Cookbook Wikibook) how do they define the thumbnail image and yet still keep the other formatting aids this design allows without manually creating a template that recreates the code of the automatic one?

Also, customisability. In the See Also section there's no text in the way so the media box could be as big as needed without disrupting anything. However for in-paragraph usage you'd want a more discreet version. There would need to be a way to define this.

I think this is a great idea, it just needs to be made as robust and discreet as possible. Garrett 18:09, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Is there an interwiki "You have new messages" feature?

I have a user page on es:wiki. Is there a way for me to receive that orange "you have new messages" alert, or to design/format one of my own, so that if a message is left at es:wiki, I get an alert at en:wiki?

Thanks.

paul klenk 17:22, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

No. ~~ N (t/c) 17:33, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Nick. paul klenk

If there's one wiki you use more than any of the others, you could simply redirect your other user talk pages to your user talk page on that one - say redirecting the usertalk:Paul Klenk at es.wiki to the same page at en.wiki. The only real drawback with that is the nuevo mensaje box wouldn't appear at all while you are working at es.wiki. Grutness...wha? 23:40, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, redirecting the whole page is a great idea. Thanks. paul klenk

It would be, if it worked. Sadly, cross-project redirects don't. Superm401 | Talk 01:23, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Strange - the redirect I have from my mi.wiki talk page to my en.wiki talk page seems to work fine AFAIK... Grutness...wha? 01:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Mmm. No - scratch that - it doesn't seem to work after all. A pity. Ah well, you could always leave a note at the top of your es. talk page saying "please leave any messages at . No guarantee that people would read that, but it's worth a try. Sorry that my suggestion didn't do the trick. Grutness...wha? 01:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

That's what I do, but I rarely edit on other projects anyway. Superm401 | Talk 02:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

From wikibooks I did "#REDIRECT ]" on my talk page. And it works -- it doesn't immediately redirect, but puts a huge link at the top of the talk page that you can't miss. Go see. ParallaxTZ 21:36, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Edit history of former redirects

I would like to know of the edit summaries of former redirects are available to be viewed with special:undelete/. For example, if an article with the title Fooer was moved to Fooder, making the original title Fooer a redirect. The move would generate an edit summary in the edit history of Fooer, stating there was a move, and the reasons why it was moved. If Fooder is later being moved back to Fooer, would the previous edit summary at Fooer be lost? Thanks. — Instantnood 19:27, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes. ~~ N (t/c) 20:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Now if a page has been moved from Fooer to Fooder, and have been moved back from Fooder to Fooer, where can I find the edit history of the first move? Or is the edit history of the first move already lost? — Instantnood 18:20, 12 October 2005 (UTC) (modified 16:55, 13 October 2005 (UTC))

If A is moved to B then back to A. The edit histories are the same. Unless A was edited while it was still at B. At that point, goto special:undelete and you can select to restore the deleted portion (which was a redirect). ∞Who?¿? 17:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I am actually looking for the edit summary saying "A is moved to B: Reasons" for the first move from A to B. The special:undelete page in this case is blank. — Instantnood 05:50, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I thought you were gonna ask that :) See Move logs, and search for the entry. ∞Who?¿? 07:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks so much. :-) — Instantnood 19:30, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Where can I get assistance setting up a mediaWiki site

We are about to start using MediaWiki in our teaching at the University of Southern Queensland in Australia and I have a number questions. e.g.

• how to setup templates for different types of pages that people can use to start the page
• how do I put users into different groups which will be used to control access to certain pages

Where can I ask these types of questions or find answers or documentation?

http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l. kate.

Although, it sounds to me like you don't want MediaWiki, you want a conventional document management system; MediaWiki certainly isn't designed to restrict users from certain pages, it being built on the wiki philosophy, which is free and collaborative editing by anyone. In addition, we don't have the template features you're after, although you could theoretically use {{subst:XXX}} to achieve this. For more information, see Why should I use MediaWiki? on Meta. Rob Church 10:55, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Cross-namespace links

Is there any easy way to see a list of pages with cross-namespace links out of article space--for instance, pages that link from article space to User, Talk, or Misplaced Pages namespace? For the most part they shouldn't exist, so it would be good to have an easy way to monitor for them. --Aquillion 20:56, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

It would be reasonably easy to do a database query on this - looking for strings like "

Here's a list for you to work on: http://kohl.wikimedia.org/~avar/tmp/crossns —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 00:18, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I think we would all love this feature

All editors have reverted a vandal, looked up his contributions, and found dozens of other edits. Sometimes not all of the damage has been undone by other editors, forcing a careful checking of the history of all the articles the vandal recently edited. Whenever I follow a link from the a vandal's contributions profile, the instance of vandalism may be the current version or another edit may have follow. Not wanting to allow an instance of vandalism to be buried, perhaps, by legit edits, I click the next edit link just to be sure the edit which follows is a revert. Doing this adds up if I am check 10+ edits. Wouldn't it be great if in the contributions profile, there could be a mark next to any edit that indicates an immediate rollback? lots of issues | leave me a message 23:06, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

• This is an excellent idea! It would be easy to implement (either by check if an admin clicked Rollback, or if the article that was edited and submitted was a version that predates those edits). — BRIAN0918 • 2005-10-7 11:45
• It would be easy to detect a rollback because they have a distinctive(though forgable) edit summary. However, it would not be reasonable to have the software compare the latest edit with every previous version every time you load a contribs page. Do you have any idea how big a use of resources that is? It would be reasonable to check whether the latest edit was the same as the page two versions ago. That requires only one comparison. Superm401 | Talk 01:21, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
• everytime there's an edit, check against the version two records ago. if they're the same mark it as a 'verified' revert (to stop forgers). then you only have to do the check once for every edit, instead of once for every history view. --71.112.11.220 01:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Subst current date with a template

Is there already a template to subst the current date via another template. (Confused?) Ok, if I use a template {{test template}} and do NOT subst it, is there a way, to have it show the date that it was used? I created Template:Log date to use inside the other template, but every way I have tried fails. Ie.. subst:Log date, using noinclude, etc. Basically I need to be able to use template 1 w/o subst, and have it subst the date it was used.

Any ideas? Thanks. ∞Who?¿? 08:08, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm guessing that you're looking for a way to respond to Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_deletion#templates_need_updating. Unfortunately, I don't think there's an easy solution. One possibility would be to create new versions of the cfd, etc. templates that MUST be subst'd. These could use {{Log date}} as it exists, assuming the link to the WP:CFD entry should use today's date. Another approach would be to require the spelled out date be provided as an argument to the cfd, etc. templates. WP:AFD's approach to this problem relies on creatng a separate article for each AFD discussion (the link from the article goes to its AFD page whose name does not depend on the date and the AFD discussion page is then transcluded in a "by day" log file - this breaks down when a given article is renominated and requires 3 edits to make a nomination). -- Rick Block (talk) 19:32, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Pretty much yea. I do not want to change the way the {{cfd}} tag functions, but want it to link directly to the day page. I thought I seen a template that did this awhile back, subst the date when used, but couldnt find one. So far all I have is User:Who/Test1, which shows the current date. ∞Who?¿? 01:34, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Silly idea, but have you tried using includeonly in the template? As in <includeonly>{{subst:{{CURRENTMONTH}}</includeonly>? It should just subst on the page using the template only, and the substitution would of course be permanent, thus showing the time it was placed on the page. -- Ec5618 17:53, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Nope, not a silly idea, but one I did try though :) thanks. It didnt like it too much. ∞Who?¿? 17:56, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's of any use to you, but you might try using five tildes (~~~~~ : 19:00, 10 October 2005 (UTC)). I realise that you are constricted by the format used to log the discussions. Since I've noticed similar problem before, I suggest we file a bug report (feature request) or something - Ec5618 19:00, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I've considered it, but it's not necessarily a pressing matter. ∞Who?¿? 00:39, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Lower Suwannee National Wildlife Refuge

I submitted an article on Lower Suwannee National Wildlife Refuge that is indicating possible copyright problems. As the manager of this Refuge, I wrote all of the text that is on www.fws.gov/lowersuwannee site and it was put on the web as public domain for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The main goal of listing this information on Misplaced Pages is to facilitate spreading word about the Refuge.

Can you assist? Please reply to me at

canoekat (at) earthlink (dot) net

Copied to talk page and Copyright problems page. — Catherine\ 03:18, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok, now I've gone and cleaned it up, complete with pretty public domain pictures! — Catherine\ 13:22, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Slower in Asia?

Hi, I live in Seoul and haven't been back in North America for quite some time. Just wondering if things are any faster over there or in Europe. When adding interwiki links from our Misplaced Pages I usually open up fifteen windows at a time right away just in case something weird happens and no pages open for ten minutes or so, which is what happened all day today. And for some reason Opera started turning up blank pages so I switched to Firefox which was a bit better even though pages only loaded properly for about 15 minutes at a time all day today. For some reason metawiki never had any problems though. Anyway, I was wondering if any of those problems have anything to do with being in Asia. I've seriously been considering having a bit of a presentation of Misplaced Pages over here because I live right in the centre of Seoul in an area just perfect for that sort of thing, but the thought of having to tell someone to wait and come back 15 minutes or maybe 30, maybe more...that scares me and I wouldn't dare try that until I was sure that things were going to work. Mithridates 18:44, 10 October 2005 (UTC) / io:user:mithridates

Misplaced Pages speed varies. As you can't control it, perhaps you should save the pages used in your presentation to local disk and do the presentation from there. For some of the same reasons why it is a good idea to store your other presentation graphics on your local disk. It also may be a factor that your timezone may tend to try to use Misplaced Pages during periods when low-demand-period maintenance is done. (SEWilco 20:00, 10 October 2005 (UTC))

It should never be taking 15 or 30 minutes to load a page. If that's happening, I guess something else is wrong. However, we've just installed over 20 new servers in South Korea, and the Korean Misplaced Pages is now running on those, so those you should find that wiki very fast. Other Asian language wikis will be moved there if no problems occur during this trial period with the Korean Misplaced Pages. Angela. 23:28, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

If it happens again, please contact a system administrator on the #wikimedia-tech channel on irc.freenode.net. -- Tim Starling 03:48, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I only have experience of UK. Generally response is attrocious (Bad = >10s, Attrocious = >30s), often being 2 or 3 minutes. Saves are worse and not guaranteed to work (This is why my major gripe with the AfD process works - you can't guarantee to succeed in editing 3 pages in quick succession). One thing to note is that in UK daytime response is better by a factor of 2 or 3 than in the evening (when the US is awake). -- SGBailey 09:05, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, actually I did notice that the Korean Misplaced Pages was amazingly fast yesterday. I do some work there but I'm primarily a sysop on the Ido Misplaced Pages which is much less fast. The past few days have benn all right, however. Mithridates 01:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Restoring all revisions except one or two

Recently, I noticed that when restoring a page, there is no "select all" button or something of that sort that allows admins to select all the boxes automatically and then choose which revisions of a page not to undelete. It would be pretty useful for removing particularly bad edits that should not be kept in the page history (e.g. Jimbo Wales' personal info). I was wondering if was at all possible to add such a function? Sasquatcht|c 03:09, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like something that should be easy to implement in Javascript. If you send me the raw html for the undelete page (for an article with more than four or five deleted revisions), I'll see what I can put together. —Cryptic (talk) 10:09, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Proper functionality would be nicer, but it can be done without getting RSI: Delete everything, then undelete only the revisions you want to get rid off. Move those revisions to a dfiferent page name and delete them again. Then undelete all the good revisions. Remember to turn off "move talk page" when moving the bad revisions. --fvw* 20:28, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Yea, I'm aware of that trick but it kinda seems like a pain... anyways, just throwing some ideas around =) Sasquatcht|c 04:26, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Placement of successive right-justified tables

Could someone take a look at Template_talk:Catalan-speaking_world#Usage_remarks? We seem to have a problem, and I'm sure there is a general solution that works in both Internet Explorer and Firefox (and, one hopes, everywhere else), but the two solutions we've tried so far have failed. The problem basically arises when we have two successive, large, right-justified tables or images. There might be a problem specific to how {{Catalan-speaking world}} is implemented. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:24, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Other templates to fix IE6 Unicode font bug.

When the font lists of Template:Unicode and Template:IPA were moved to MediaWiki:Common.css, it somehow broke Template:PIE and Template:IAST. These were apparently just copies of (an old version of) Template:IPA with different title and class parameters (and italicization in the case of Template:PIE). The templates had worked previously; broken they did not fix the IE6 Unicode font bug.

I was able to fix the broken templates by deleting the style parameters and changing the class parameters to either class="Unicode" or class="IPA". But now it occurs to me that this may prevent someone from customizing class="PIE" or class="IAST". Is it possible to specify Template:PIE with class="PIE" so that class="PIE" is by default the same as class="Unicode" (or class="IPA")? --teb728 08:19, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

You can simply use class="PIE Unicode" and class="IAST IPA". --cesarb 02:51, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

strange...

The vandal account TheVillagePumpIsOkay,ButImNot (talk · contribs) appears to have vandalized the Village Pump twice, but his contributions show that he only edited the Village Pump once. What's going on? --Ixfd64 09:19, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

• Extreme db lag. I got a request to look at history of a page earlier, and the IP didn't even show up, but it was in the IP's contribs. Only thing I can think of. ∞Who?¿? 09:56, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Blocking anons only

My ISP (202.180.83.6) has been blocked three times today because of an anonymous vandal. Twice, I have lost work that i was doing because of it. If this keeps up, I may have to quit wikipedia until such time as I can get another IP (and given my financial lack of resources, that may be a considerable time). Surely there must be some way that anons can be blocked from using an IP while allowing registered users to continue using the same IP address? Please? Grutness...wha? 12:24, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Wow, people are going to think you are my sockpuppet! See Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy proposal. thanks - Martin 14:40, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

At the risk of blowing my own trumpet, a sockpuppet with tens of thousands of edits is pretty impressive :) I note a similar comment re blocking anons only at proposals, BTW. Grutness...wha? 23:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Username with Unicode right-to-left override character

Usernames with U+202E (Unicode right-to-left override) should be disabled. To see why, check out Special:Log/newusers at 15:57, 16:07, 16:21, 16:26, 16:32 for today, October 13. -- Curps 16:37, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

U+202B (Unicode right-to-left embedding) might not be such a good idea either. -- Curps 16:43, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Or if you need to see a slew of usernames using them really quickly.. see Category:Misplaced Pages:Suspected vandalbots. ∞Who?¿? 16:46, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

"What if" vandalism question

What would happen if a vandal reverted as many pages as possible to their starting point in history? Is MediaWiki designed to deal with that threat?

Eje211 21:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Same as any other vandalism; they'd get blocked and the pages reverted. --Brion 22:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

That's reassuring. I was afraid it was not technically possible to revert reverts. Eje211 14:23, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

It is impossible for any vandal to remove the revision history. They can blank, but only sysops can delete, and even that can be undone all the way back to the first edit. ∞Who?¿? 14:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Template bug

Hi, i was editing the article Huainan and using the template "{{Anhui}}" when problem occurred. No matter how i tried, the template wouldn't appear properly but instead appeared plainly as "{{Anhui". The same template has no problem on other pages (such as Ma'anshan or Lu'an). Please help. Great thanks! -- the baffled Plastictv 03:09, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

As I expected, it was an unclosed template somewhere else in the page. Fixed. --cesarb 03:38, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh so that's what's been causing the problem! Thanks a lot mate. :) --Plastictv 04:41, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Page history - Diff

When you click the Newer edit / Older edit links, it ends up as a diff between the next version (older newer) and its neighbour. Would it be possible/sensible to rig it so that you can step the left version and the right version independently. I often want to step through versions comparing them to one particular version. Thus we might end up with 4 links: Left older, Left newer, Right older, Right newer. -- SGBailey 08:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Edit page not "on top" option

Due to the speed of page dispaly and saving, I often edit several pages in parallel. When mid sentence on one page, having another page pop-up and steal my typing is a pain. Is it possible to set a preference to stop "new edit window on top" behaviour? -- SGBailey 09:08, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

This is hardly a specific Misplaced Pages question. Perhaps you should take this issue to the Reference desk. -- Ec5618 09:59, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I beg to differ. This is very wikipedia specific. It isn't a bug, so I don't report it at bugzilla. It is a wikimedia software configuaration issue (I assume), so I request the ability to configure it in WP:VP Technical. -- SGBailey 15:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

No, it's your browser. ~~ N (t/c) 16:14, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

It's not our fault, but rather IE's. Misplaced Pages is not sending a z-layer command like pop-under ads do, it's just that WP edits are submitted using POST whereas Google etc. use GET, and IE seems to like giving focus to POST results pages. But anyway I do have a solution! I take it this is happening under Windows XP/2003? OK, first of all you need the handy-dandy Tweak UI, download and install it here. Once you've done that, you'll find "Focus" under the "General" tree. Merely check "Prevent applications from stealing focus" and then configure the flashing options as you like. Personally I find the repeated flashing annoying so leave it at 0 or 1 (3 is the default IIRC). Anyway, there's the solution. If you're not using XP/2003 I'm not sure the 9x Tweak UI has this option. Actually I don't remember if pre-XP even had focus-changing... Garrett 16:29, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

The original writer didn't actually say anything about what browser or platform he/she was using. I would, however, suggest that if you like doing multiple edits in parallel, a browser with tabbed browsing capability (e.g., Mozilla or Firefox) would be a good choice. *Dan T.* 16:45, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

True, but I can make sweeping assumptions! :) I've never known a non-IE browser to do this, and focus-stealing is most commonly programmed into (? or exclusive to) Windows programs, so that narrows it down quite a bit. But yes a tabbed browser is a good suggestion. I downloaded Firefox almost solely to see what the tabbed browsing was like, and I've never gone back. Garrett 17:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Changes to monobook.css (underlining)

Today, suddenly and with no warning, all links on Misplaced Pages pages were no longer underlined in my browser (Firefox 1.0.6 on MacOS X). I immediately suspected a browser issue, maybe corrupt preferences, restarted it, no change; rebooted the machine, same. I tried a different WP skin, and the underlinig was back. I don't know a lot about CSS or the way WP does style, so I started reading, and found that apparently an editor changed the Monobook.css file and removed one line,

a { text-decoration: underline }

with the edit summary, "don't force underlining". Unfortunately, it appears to have broken underlining in my browser; even with "Underline Links" checked, Misplaced Pages links are not underlined after this change.

There is some discussion on the Monobook.css talk page, but it's from months ago. I posted on the talk page, and the user's talk page. I would have reverted pending discussion, but that's beyond my technical chops, since the Monobook.css page appears to be generated elsewhere and I can't edit it directly.

Does anyone have any idea why that change would have prevented underlining, rather than just making it default to what's set in the browser? Did underlining disappear for a large number of other Firefox users today, or is this just some glitch in my configuration?

I also tried to override this with a monospace.css file as a user sub-page, but weirdly, adding that one line as the monospace.css file only works inside the edit/preview cycle (underlines return), but not after I save the page (and purge browser cache, etc.). Ideas? Thanks, MCB 01:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

The correct name is monobook.css. ~~ N (t/c) 17:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Just a typo on my part (here), the change to monobook.css did not work. On the advice of ABCD who made the change to the system Monobook.css, I had to check "Underline links: Always" in my WP misc preferences, but I should not have to do that; "Underline links: Browser Default" does not work after this change. MCB 18:01, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I also use Firefox (on Windows XP) and have noticed this problem. But I also checked Misplaced Pages on Internet Explorer and this problem occurs on that browser as well. --FlyingPenguins 20:52, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Same thing here, Penguins. It's actually getting quite distracting. Bobstar 20:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I just added the following to my user monobook.css (User:Ilyanep/monobook.css) and I think it makes wp a lot more readable...

a {text-decoration: none;}

It still underlines on hover, and that's how my own personal webpage works. I think it makes just reading a lot easier. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 21:02, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

And someone just changed this again. Look, if you want to change your personal stylesheet, go for it, but please stop screwing with things that affect the user experience of hundreds, maybe thousands, of people who did not ask to have it changed. As far as I'm concerned, this is tantamount to vandalism. The question marks are very annoying. They must be even more so for anyone using any sort of assistive devices. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:27, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Images/media and red links.

Is there a reason why text links (the prefixed with a colon kind) to the Image: namespace don't produce red links? Sure you can use Media: links but why the distinction? Image:SomeRandomFilename.jpeg looks just fine while Media:SomeRandomFilename.jpeg does result in a red link? The main reason it's bugging me is that the watchlist use the Image: kind of link so it's hard to weed out deleted images when editing the watchlist, and also image links on various maintainance lists and talk pages also use the Image rather tha Media "namespace" causing you do end up on non-exsisting pages quite often (closed IFD pages also look "wierd" without any red links). --Sherool 02:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Access to edit histories

Apparently (some?) users have access to other users' edit histories. Is this privileged, or may any-one see other users' edit histories?

All edit histories are publicly visible. For the edit history of an article, click on the history tab at the top of the page. For a user's contributions, go to their user page and click user contributions in the toolbox at the bottom-left of the screen. --fvw* 06:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

What is the use of copper cathode?

Please Kindly assist me with the above question Also how can I get the copper cathode for industrial supply purpose.

Thanks, Charles Benjamin

This is hardly a specific Misplaced Pages question. Perhaps you should take this issue to the Reference desk.

Also, please clarify your question. What is it you want to know? -- Ec5618 13:34, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Zombie stub cat

The stub category Category:Business bio stubs though deleted seems to be as well populated as Category:Business biography stubs. Is this just major DB lag or is it some kind of technical problem? Would all the stub notices need to be removed and re-added to get them in one place? MeltBanana 14:34, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

The articles need null edits, since the template was changed to the new category. I'll take care of it. —Cryptic (talk) 17:23, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah - this should have been caught when the category was changed in September - someone must have slipped up. If you find any more like this, please report them at Misplaced Pages talk:Stub types for deletion. Grutness...wha? 00:25, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Is a redirect log (similar to page-move log) technically feasible

See Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals)#Redirect and un-redirect log.

Redirecting a page is fundamentally a different concept than editing it... actually, it's exactly like a page move, except the "page move" target already exists. It should be logged in a different way than ordinary edits, more like the way Pagemoves are logged (in Special:Log/move and in Special:Recentchanges).

The question is, is this technically feasible? When does Mediawiki recognize that a page is a redirect... when it is saved after an edit, or only later when it is clicked on?

-- Curps 04:07, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Redirecting a page is exactly like editing it; it *is* editing it. Previous versions are still in the history at the original title, etc. --Brion 04:26, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but the log could still be generated. It'd just be a bit of work. Superm401 | Talk 07:15, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

New editing form

Somebody changed the edit form to put a left-margin on the Save page button and minor edit checkbox, I dislike it, please change it back. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 06:11, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. No amount of tinkering in MediaWiki:Subject can fix it. It's specifically centered around something strange with the CSS labels of (span id) "wpSummaryLabel" and (label for) "wpSummary" and maybe the (div class) "editOptions". --AllyUnion (talk) 10:06, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I fixed it. Blame Tom- (talk · contribs) for the change to MediaWiki:Monobook.css (edit | ] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) that caused the new comments form to look all funky. --AllyUnion (talk) 10:14, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

And I thought it was Firefox being screwy. Alphax  11:45, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Newbie error or vandal?

Someone from IP 129.234.4.76 (talk · contribs) (not me) just tried logging into Misplaced Pages using my username: I got bounced from the system (logged out) and the system has changed my password, and sent me an email informing me of this. What is going on? -- Francs2000 15:07, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

This happens all the time. Someone thinks they had a particular account but fail to log in so of course request a password. The new password is sent to the owner which isn't always them. Both passwords, old and new, should now work when you go to log in, unlike some forums where the old password is deleted upon request of a new one. So don't worry, your account is still safe. Whew. :) Garrett 16:25, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Underlining

Ok, I may be imagining things wildly here, but weren't all the links on article pages underlined until just recently? 159.92.111.238 17:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

See section, Changes to monobook.css (underlining) above. I think the change was ill-advised, but don't know how to revert it. MCB 18:02, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, just to support that I don't like those changes. It bothers me quite a lot, it kind of makes wikipedia outside of the "internet link font" Janarius 13:25, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Bulk upload

I plan to upload a bunch of images soon since I'm working on articles on each Metro station in Mexico City. Each station has its own logo and we are still missing many of them (~50) all of them fair use. I was wondering if there is a bulk upload tool for EN similar to the one someone created for Commons. Thanks! -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 19:52, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

surely it shouldn't be too hard to modify the existing tool to upload here rather than commons Plugwash 20:31, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Of course. If I only knew how to program... ;-) -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 20:49, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

It is harder getting help for mere "fair use" images rather than free ones. (SEWilco 20:53, 16 October 2005 (UTC))

I thought so, but still wanted to ask anyway. The thing is, having the logo of each station in an article is just as important as having the article itself (read Mexico City Metro to see why). As far as I know the designs belong to the city and there may be no easy way to get free versions of them. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 00:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Have you taken look at m:Pywikipedia. It's a bot, and it's upload.py program (if that's what you call it) could be helpful. The description for upload.py: "Script to upload images to wikipedia...". I'm pretty sure it will work for en, but not certain. Oh, and you don't need to be Boris Grishenko to get it going either.--Commander Keane 07:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I didn't know it existed. I'll have a look at it. Thank you! -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 21:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

There is a list of allowed bots in Misplaced Pages somewhere. I have seen it. There is one specifically for uploading a lot of images. The author(and user) of the bot said on his user page that he is willing to upload a lot of images if he is asked. Go, find it, it should be pretty fast (there are no more than about 20 bots allowed in wikipedia), and ask the author. He seemed pretty freindly on his talk page. --Msoos 12:45, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Are generated map images from www.planiglobe.com acceptable?

www.planiglobe.com allows users to create maps that carry a Creative Commons 2.5 Attribution license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/), which appears to boil down to, "do whatever you want, just give us credit." Is that acceptable, or still too restrictive for Misplaced Pages? - Dcfleck 20:37, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

{{cc-by-2.5}} is listed as "free" (well, "free enough for us") on the ever-helpful Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags. Shimgray | talk | 20:42, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

It's less restrictive than GFDL or cc-by-sa. cc-by allows someone downloading it to distribute altered versions without distributing them on the same terms as the original. If my understanding is correct, I could upload a cc-by image (it's one of the licences in the drop down box on the upload page). Someone else could then alter that, and they wouldn't be required to release it under the same licence. That doesn't appeal to me, but if planiglobe doesn't have a problem with it then I suppose we don't either. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:53, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Great! Thank you all very much for the quick replies. - Dcfleck 23:49, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

working toward watchlist rss feeds ( bugzilla #471 )

Have been attempting to dig a bit toward this as it seems long coming and increasingly important.

• Bug 471: Basic XML Feed support for watchlist (implementation idea: token)
• discussion on meta: and links to wikitech-l threads at Meta:Talk:Syndication_feeds#.

Here 07:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Download and setup of wikipedia

Ive read the download wikipedia article in the help section and I don't understand exactly how you set it up. I wish to download the whole of wikipedia minus the images if possible so I can look through if offline. Could you possibly provide a step by step guide to downloading and installing wikipedia? I read about file 'dumps' and xml but am confused as to how it all fits together as the help section article seems to be oriented to people already familiar with that type of software and files.

Misplaced Pages is database, not set a regular web-pages, so just simple downloading (with offline browsers httrack, TeleportPro or similar) I suppose will not work. In short You have to:

1. Install WAMP/LAMP (for MySQL to work no your PC)
2. install wiki
3. load database with data of desired language 'dump'
4. periodically update database (if You like)

any help? --AndriuZ 11:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

where do i get WAMP/LAMP from? so i install that, then sql, then I download and install mediawiki. what im confused with is the next part. when i navigate to index of wikipedia it has a list of 30+ different files ranging in size from a few bytes to 30gigabytes. If i just want the whole list of wikipedia articles in english with no images is that where I download it? if so, which one is it?

As another(albeit proprietary) option, see Misplaced Pages:TomeRaider. The steps are much less simple, but the updates slower. Superm401 | Talk 03:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

You should read the section about this in Misplaced Pages. I am not going to seach for it, but there is a *complete manual* for it (I have seen it). It helps you more then we can help you (and wastes less of our time answering something that has already been answered). On top of that, I would not advise you trying to do it, since it is A. very technical B. very resouce intensive (not only gigabytes and megahertzes but also human time).--Msoos 12:51, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

four tildes don't work

When I type the four tildes, it makes my name come out as SoothinR, instead of SoothingR and doesn't redirect to my profile page anymore. It worked a week ago, however suddenly stopped working today. Does anyone have an idea how this can be fixed? --SoothinR 20:49, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Go to Special:Preferences. what is in "Nickname"? Have you got "Raw signatures (without automatic link...)" checked or not? Try changing these things and see if it helps. --rbrwr 21:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, it works now --SoothingR 09:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

incredibly wide diff pages under firefox

I recently moved to firefox and found that the diff pages' width didn't adjust correctly: I have to scroll horizontally to see both the removals and the additions :( Anyone knows how to fix that? (Btw, that also sometimes happens with my personalized google homepage when it reloads automatically, if that's any help...). Thanks, Jules LT 21:25, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

That happens to me too sometimes. The only good fix I've found for when this happens is to reload the page. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 21:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

There is a fix for that by adding horizontal scrollbars to oversized sections. I don't have a link handy but it's in my user JS. You only need the "cesarb_fixDiffOverflowLoadListener" section. It works wonderfully, even enormous URLs won't make you scroll the whole page horizontally. Garrett 04:52, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Except when it doesn't work, which causes one of the columns to get incredibly tiny. I am the one who created that function, and gave up using it because of it. If you find somewhere that bug happens, and manage to fix it, please tell me (some of the problematic diffs can be found at User talk:CesarB/monobook.js). Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one to whom that function doesn't work well :( --cesarb 17:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I'd be glad to know too... Thanks anyway, Garrett; reloading hardly ever fixes it, but sometimes at least... Jules LT 19:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

god mode lite

Not sure where to post this, but just to warn anyone who uses this script to be careful. I've been having a few problems with it exchanging characters on reverting (e.g. , , .) I'm not sure but it could be since I started using Firefox 1.5 Beta 2, so keep an eye out. I've notified the author Sam Hocevar. the wub "?!" 23:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually I think this is more the fault of MediaWiki 1.6 Alpha (or whatever it is we're running at the moment). All the browser does is send a username and a special ID and tells the server to replace that user's contributions string. I don't think it has any direct control over the content. Garrett 04:46, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Vanishing rvv

I'm pretty sure I've had at least four rvv vanish today; I'll pay more attention to future ones. The updated page was redisplayed after Save, but the vandalized version still showed in "My watchlist" and "History". (SEWilco 05:38, 19 October 2005 (UTC))

Being logged out of WP

Is this only happening to me, or is it happening to other people? Every now and then I'm just being logged out automatically, and its starting to happen very frequently now. Is this some kind of bug? 213.122.126.156 13:07, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Happens when the servers are slow. Try clicking the "remember me" box on the login screen. Lupo 13:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try it. 213.122.67.9 08:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Probably not related, but no matter what permissions I allow for wikipedia.org in Zone Alarm, I can only stay logged in if I shut down Zone Alarm. Any recommendations from Zone Alarm users who don't have this problem would be welcomed. --Craig 12:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

No TOC

Table of Contents seems to be missing today. (SEWilco 13:52, 19 October 2005 (UTC))

...and has now reappeared, at least in this article. (SEWilco 14:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC))

Alt language

This has happened to me in the past, and it is happening to me again now. When I hold my cursor over a link (either the ones on the left, or the tabs at the top of an article, or the ones at the top right corner) the alt descriptions appear in another language. I always have my language set to English, and never change it. It looks to me like Norwegian. Take a look. Does anyone else experience this? Is it a known issue? --Daniel Lawrence 15:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Template behavior changes: Default and arg transclusion

Someone named 'avar' in #mediawiki says that we now support syntax like {{{arg|default}}} and {{template|arg = {{template2}} }} (SEWilco 16:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC))

That "someone" is probably Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, one of the developers. --cesarb 16:56, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I haven't seen any details. For example, although {{{URL|{{{url}}}}}} allows both spellings for an arg I have not tested {{{URL|{{{url|{{{Url}}}}}}}}}} nor do I know how deeply it can be nested. (SEWilco 19:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC))

Didn't this break a bunch of templates last time it was implemented? ~~ N (t/c) 23:48, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

probablly how else do you think this stuff gets debugged? ;) Plugwash 23:51, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

btw i just put this to use on {{DB Character}} so i could put the template back into the Mr. Popo article. Plugwash 00:04, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

IIRC the breakage was a bug; I'd suppose he has tested against the cases which broke last time before going live with it again. --cesarb 00:54, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Okey, what it does support now is {{{param|default if param is not specified}}} and {{template|paramater = {{woo, a template inside a paramater}}}}, and for the record, this code is not mine (unlike the previous one), which is why it's working;) —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 17:47, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

For those interested this means that we can now have optional sections as well as optional values in templates using some hacking, for instance say you wanted to create a mointain template as I've done on User:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason/Mountain and always wanted to specify the height and name of the mountain but not always the mointan range (as it might not be in one) then you might call it as:

{{User:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason/Mountain
| name = Mount Everest
| height = 8844
| rangeoff = 
}}

Which would yield: User:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason/Mountain

But if you wanted to specify the range you might do:

{{User:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason/Mountain
| name = Mount Everest
| height = 8844
| range = Himalaya
}}

User:Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason/Mountain The downside of this is that you always have to specify what you want to omit when calling the template so adding new optional values to it means that you have to change all the pages that call it, but it's better than nothing. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 19:36, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

This was already possible using {{If defined call1}} (see Template talk:Peru region table for instance). However, it becomes now possible to have optional sections which won't appear if the parameter is undefined. This means you can introduce optional sections without having to modify the pages calling it. Demonstration :

{{User:Rorro/Mountain
| name = Mount Everest
| height = 8844
}}

yields:

If you want to specify the range,

{{User:Rorro/Mountain
| name = Mount Everest
| height = 8844
| range = Himalaya
}}

yields:

You can see the code in User:Rorro/Mountain and User:Rorro/Mountain/range._R_ 23:00, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Great, that's much better! —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 03:24, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Minor problem with the new syntax

Previously, a parameter value could contain (text)]](text)

Nothing in what has been mentioned indicates such a change in behavior. Whatever changed should be documented. However, I don't know whether this change should be called a bug or a feature. (SEWilco 19:51, 21 October 2005 (UTC))

I don't know either, but some templates on fr: relied on the old behaviour (and I bet some here do, too). That's the reason why I'm asking. _R_ 22:25, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not very good at this, yet, but here is a very good help page on it. m:Help:Template. Assuming you haven't already read it. «»Who?¿? 05:29, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

As we're discussing changes and announcements of changes, the changes to that page are in . But I did not notice mention of changes affecting behavior of argument content. (SEWilco 06:30, 22 October 2005 (UTC))

Blocks

I have no idea if I have put this in the right place, but I was wondering what the point is in not being able to edit articles when logged in, if the IP address you are using is blocked. Is it because of technical limitations? FireFox 18:07, 19 October 2005 (UTC)