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Tom Haws

Talk archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Before asking for input or making comments, please be sure you have read and internalized the documents that explain our absolute and non-negotiable Neutral point of view policy. I will continually refer to the NPOV document. Tom

Template:Rating of WP:TFD

Hi Hawstom: I might have been a little hasty in doing this, but I just listed your Template:Rating on Templates for deletion. Now, first of all, I think the article rating is a good idea. However, there's a MediaWiki validation feature in the works, possibly to be deployed soon. It has been discussed at great length on the mailing list. I think the template version could be problematic, as it could be a lightening rod for edits wars and other things. Also, it is hard to describe the entire quality, appropriatness, and trusworthiness of an article in three little images. The featured article process, identifying great articles, has many more steps than changing an image on a template. I look forward to your comments. Cheers, Bratsche 15:36, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Although I'm not familiar enough with template issues to really weigh in on the deletion issue above, I think I understand what you are trying to accomplish. As an alternate idea --- what about using a "featured article" variant for kids under 14 and their teachers? The selection committee could then award a (or your) kid safe rating to all nominations, with just the highest rated articles being "featured." If one a week was chosen from nominated articles, 52 articles a year, Wiki could contribute quite a resource on inventions, science, prominent persons, history, arts and literature. A link to a list of all rated articles could be attached to the (hopefully) main page "kid stuff" (everything I think of naming the thing seems really boring) featured article. I'm sure there would be several discouraging issues -- including the fact that kid safe material would be a magnet to certain types of vandals. But having a teaching/kid related project here would be good, no matter what. Would be interested in your opinion. WBardwin 06:18, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

You're a good friend too. Thanks for welcoming me early. Trödel|talk 04:10, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Message from User talk:82.52.145.67

Hi! I've received the following message in my computer: "Mormon Welcome to Misplaced Pages. I'm not sure why you made the deletion you did. Could you drop by and explain? Tom Haws 17:09, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)"

I didn't even consult the item "Mormon", so I don't know which deletion you speak about. By the way, I didn't make any deletion in Misplaced Pages, in any item... Greetings, Dr. S. Avraham

Hi Dr. Avraham - it could be because an IP address you are using now was once used to delete/edit information on Misplaced Pages. Since you are not a registered user, if you are using a non-static IP address, this is common - especially with AOL accounts and DHCP servers (Common at universities). When you get a minute, check out WP:LDS, and feel free to register and help edit. Hope to have you aboard. I'll leave the same message on your IP address page. -Visorstuff 14:55, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Hawstom/Wikipedia reputation

hello. regarding User:Hawstom/Wikipedia reputation, what do you think of Misplaced Pages:Requests for publication? -- Zondor 13:51, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr. -- featured status vote

The Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr. article is now up for featured article status. If you get a chance, please vote here. COGDEN 22:43, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Early life Joseph Smith will be featured on the Main Page on the front page on the 23rd. Vandalism will probably be frequent that day. Could you help in monitoring the page? The 23rd starts at 7 pm ET on Dec 22nd, since wikipedia goes by UTC. Thx in advance. Trödel•talk 22:39, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I know it will be a busy day, so it will be a great group effort. I did have the day off but now I have Mon off instead so I have a lot less time than I planned. Trödel•talk 19:21, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Changes to user page

(copied from User talk:Deadsalmon) I added a clarifying sentence to my user page User:Hawstom#Personal_life. Do you think it distills the essence? Tom Haws 13:14, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely. Plus, the belief-o-matic reference is entertaining. Deadsalmon 00:07, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the complements on my talk page...

... but do you really mean that? --Trevdna 01:06, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I appreciate that! Trevdna 05:22, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Mormon views about Mormonism and Judaism

I'm not feeling well and there are a number of WP:LDS editors that could use your help with consensus building at Talk:Mormon views about Mormonism and Judaism. If you can help there, I know they'd appreciate it, as would I. -Visorstuff 15:22, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

AOL Proxy Block

Tom -- could you put on your admin hat for me. Merovingian has blocked me from editing, for 24 hours, no less -- based on the fact that I'm a captive of an AOL rotating proxy. New administrators seem to go through a phase of trying to punish all AOL users. I left him the note below. I would appreciate your help. WBardwin 07:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Please note that you have blocked an AOL proxy address -- which randomly rotates among users. AOL users cannot control which number they are assigned, and blocking the number for any length of time is ineffective in fighting vandalism. Please see my user page User:WBardwin/AOL Block Collection for a history of adminstrative discussion and action regarding these blocks. They seem to hit me often. Please release your block. Information below. Thank you. WBardwin 06:01, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Your IP address is 207.200.116.202. Please include this address, along with your username, in any queries you make. Your user name or IP address has been blocked by Merovingian. The reason given is: Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "Kkkboi". The reason given for Kkkboi's block is: "vandal/troll".

Marshill and Intelligent design

well met! Hi tom. Thanks for reading my objections to the ID page. Please sign my petition indicating your opinion. http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Intelligent_design/Marshills_NPOV_objections#Strawpoll I am in the process of mediation and am working hard to get that section fixed. Thank you, and its a pleasure meeting you. -Arthur Marshill 21:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, the article disappoiinted me too. Tom Haws 21:21, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

RE: After-death communication

No problem. Sometimes when I get bored, I browse the recently created articles; that's how I found your's so quickly.

Oh, and for future reference, stubs are typically placed after the main body of an article. Jeff Silvers 21:21, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

hey

I'm sorry. That was a mistake. I saw the "leave me a message" wikicode on your user page and thought it to be useful so I used it on mine though I accidentally left your username in it. I then tested it and I posted to your talk page.

Anyway thanks for the welcome. :)

LDS alert

Hello! As you have contributed to LDS/Mormon articles in the past, this is a friendly heads-up that Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_temples_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints is currently being discussed. Any comments you have regarding the issue would be appreciated. Thanks! —akghetto  11:11, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject LDS

Mountain Meadows massacre

Thanks for weighing in on Mountain Meadows massacre -- it is getting pretty heated there, and I'm afraid my Wiki time is very limited right now. Your calm approach is always appreciated. Best wishes. WBardwin 03:35, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

My thanks too. Peace. Dr U 16:46, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Although I haven't had much Wiki time, I have been keeping an eye on the "action" on the article. Lots of reverts. I would appreciate your comments on my suggested outline/content for the article, which should allow us to include much of the current information (a good edit is always useful) and other information as well. Thank you. WBardwin 09:53, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Spanish translations

Noticed your comment on Visorstuff's talk page about translations in Spanish. I may be of some limited assistance; I picked up missionary fluency (which, as you know, isn't always completely fluent) during my time in Venezuela. Anything I'd help with would definitely need to be double-checked to both grammatical correctness and ideological consistency with the source article, as I tend to substitute words creatively, but if you're desperate. Time is a limiting factor for me, however, with grad work looming. Deadsalmon 20:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good — wish I could offer more than such limited help. Could you suggest a couple ES LDS articles for me to watchlist? Deadsalmon 21:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Joined today, thanks for the reminder. I'll be of limited help, especially as I'm still figuring out class and work schedules for the semester. Still, if there's anything you'd like an American hand with, let me know. Deadsalmon 22:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Use of "Mormon"

Tom, as your LDS project involvement predates mine.... I believe that name/title usage was discussed fairly early, before my time, and is buried in the archive. Would you please add your memory to a discussion on Talk:List of Latter-day Saints about changing the name of the list. I would like a broader approach i.e. "List of people in the Latter Day Saint Movement" while another project member likes "List of Mormons". Thank you. WBardwin 06:52, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Human

Glad to see you back at Talk:Human, I was sad when you stepped out of the previous discussions. Any chance of you changing your status as: "Currently on Wikiholiday from Human due to a discussion impasse"?

Cheers, Sam Spade 22:01, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

1.0 Collaboration of the Week

Hi, I noticed you signed up as a member of the Misplaced Pages:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Misplaced Pages for future publication on CD or paper. Recently, a 1.0 Collaboration of the Week was created to work on essential topics that are in need of improvement, which will ultimately go in a release version of Misplaced Pages. You can help by voting, contributing to an article, or simply making a comment. Thank you for your support. :) Gflores 08:06, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Primitive_Apostolic_Christianity (Sabbatarian)

Hi Tom, In reading the linked article on "PAC", the description sounded similar to the LDS at a very general level, so I added that similarity. I'd appreciate it if you or someone more familiar with the LDS could fact check my addition though. Thanks. Wesley 05:18, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

suggestions for jw pages...

I noticed you left a note about the progress made on JW articles. I'm curious if you have any other thoughts on how these articles could be improved. Sometimes you get a little too close to the articles, some outside insight would be appreciated. joshbuddy 06:13, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Translation

Well, I've only just started translating into Japanese and I'm still trying to recruit people to help, so I don't have any "war stories" yet, but I'll keep you updated. I've told all my mission buddies about it and I've asked the members and other people I knew in Japan to proofread and stuff like that. --Gandalf 02:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Can you look at some of my editing?

I have been expanding the FLDS page because it was VERY outdated with regards to current events. I noticed you were one of the highly involved individuals in creating the page. Can you take a look and maybe provide a hint or three on how to clean it up because the categories are a little messy right now. I think there should be a few more categories i.e. criticisms, lawsiuts, cleaning up the distinctive beliefs etc., but bein' a noob, I am just doing the best I can just to add a pic.Twunchy 21:54, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Ratingbar100.png

Thanks for uploading Image:Ratingbar100.png. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Misplaced Pages because of copyright law (see Misplaced Pages's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Misplaced Pages are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator.

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you have questions about copyright tagging of images, post on Misplaced Pages talk:Image copyright tags or User talk:Carnildo/images. 17:48, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Mysticism

Please have a look at talk:mysticism if you will, and see if there is anything you can add. A user and I seem to be butting heads over minor issues (like what belongs in the header) and losing sight of the article itself. I think your presense would be a good influence, and I believe the subject is of some interest to you. Cheers, Sam Spade 19:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

see response to ethanol REOI from

Hello Tom, I made an attempt to anwser you question at http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Energy_development#Reply_to_ethanol_energy_return_question regards, ken huck Susten.biz

Help Request

BoLingua,

User:Enormousdude has taken up editing Mormon articles. His edits tend to consist of duplicating information from the controversy sections and then pasting them into other sections. Either that or other non-facts, duplicate mistakes, or other garbage. I have pretty much reached my limit on reverting him, and he will not respond to my requests to discuss the issue. Any help you could give would be appreciated, particularly with the Book of Mormon article. Thanks. --Hetar 06:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

We could use some temperate help at Talk:Joseph Smith, Jr. - I read bcatt's objections and I just have to stop or fall into the trap I did earlier which she found very objectional. TIA Trödel 04:01, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Joseph Smith, Jr.

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Joseph Smith, Jr., and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Misplaced Pages:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.

human #5

FYI -- an exercise — goethean ॐ 18:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

LDS Church Membership data

You asked for it. Here you go!

http://www.geocities.com/johnwiltbank/growth.gif http://www.geocities.com/johnwiltbank/growth.jpg http://www.geocities.com/johnwiltbank/ChurchStats.xls http://www.geocities.com/johnwiltbank/ldsdata.txt

The above do not yet incorporate the statistical data released yesterday. FYI, this data was: 2701 stakes, 341 missions, 643 districts, 27,087 wards, 12,560,869 membership, 93150 children of record, 243,108 converts, 52,060 full-time missionaries.

Novel-Technology 06:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Version 1.0 "Release Version Qualifying"

Hi, I'm interested in your feedback on Misplaced Pages talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Release Version Qualifying. It's essentially an idea to use a process similar to WP:FAC to identify and handle articles and lists that would go in a release version. Maurreen 19:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

WP 1.0

I thought since you are interested in this project you might be interested to see a CD version of en now exists see Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages-CD/Download & 2006 WP CD Selection. This is being discussed on the 1.0 project pages but progress breeds enthusiasm so I thought I would let you know. --BozMo talk 09:06, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

On wikiholiday

I'm on wikiholiday indefinitely. Tom Haws 07:38, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Energy portal

Hi! As a contributor to WikiProject Energy development, I thought you might like to be aware of the opportunity to contribute to the new Energy Portal, now that there is one... No need to reply. Gralo 17:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Sustainability

The project page you created above is currently being considered for deletion in accord with wikipedia policy. Please feel free to take part in the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Sustainability. Thank you. Badbilltucker 02:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Energy portal & future selected articles

Hi! Over the past couple of months I've been spending much more time than I should developing the Energy portal, and intend asking for a portal peer review within the next day or so.

The portal provides a showcase for energy-related articles on Misplaced Pages. One of the most prominent ways is via a the selected article that is currently changed every 6 weeks or so. It would be good to increase this turnover, and with three Wikiprojects dedicated to energy-related topics and a good number of articles already written, I'd like to suggest that members of each Wikiproject might like to use the 'selected article' to feature some of their best work.

With this in mind, I'd like to suggest that your Wikiproject bypasses the normal selected article nomination page and decides collectively which articles are worth featuring - or these may be self-evident from previous discussions - and add short 'introduction' to the selected article at the appropriate place on page Portal:Energy/Selected article/Drafts, which includes further information. Your personal involvement would be welcome!

Please make any comments on your Wikiproject talk page, my talk page, or on Portal talk:Energy/Selected article/Drafts, as appropriate. Gralo 15:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Please help improve Plug-in hybrid

You are listed as a participant in WikiProject Energy development, so I am asking you to please consider helping to improve the plug-in hybrid article. This is an ad hoc article improvement drive. BenB4 08:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Off Wikiholiday

Tom Haws 21:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

welcome back. I have missed seeing your name and helpful contributions. Looke forward to working with you once again. WBardwin 07:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Cheers!  :)) --Rednblu 08:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back. Perhaps I'll be more active again myself now. -Visorstuff 00:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Milogardner and Archibald Gardner article

HI! Welcome back. I was glad to see your name once again. If you have the energy and patience, could you join several editors who have been trying to guide this newby in creating a well-documented article that meets Wiki standards? So far -- well, no real progress. Notability and sources appear to be the major issues. Archibald Gardner is mildly notable in LDS history, and may have (as MiloGardner asserts) made contributions in industry and commerce in the American West. But many of the editor's sources appear to be simply LDS style family history. Trödel has been extremely patient, but has recently put out a request for comment on the article. I've basically washed my hands in frustration. Hope to see you around more. WBardwin 05:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproyecto SUD ...

Hno Hawstom, le extrañamos en el Wikiproyecto SUD. Vuelva cuando pueda ...
--Bobjgalindo 02:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC) (¿Comentarios?)

Fantástica lista, se me adelantó en la búsqueda. Ahora pondré la plantilla en los artículos y crearé una bienvenida para nuevos usuarios. El poner la plantilla del Wikiproyecto en la página de discusión de los artículos invitará a otros a unirse, ya verá.

Sí! Se ve bien. Perdone que no le haya respondido más antes. Trabajo en el artículos SUD mayormente los domingos cuando la familia o el llamamiento no tienen mi atención. Me cuesta no ver MLB en la televisión, así que escribir artículos relacionados con la Iglesia me ayuda con mantener el día de reposo santo ... Ud. entiende.

--Bobjgalindo 21:49, 14 August 2007 (UTC) (¿Comentarios?)

First Vision mediation?

Based on your recent questions, I suspect you are attempting to act as a mediator between John Foxe and myself. I requested mediation a while back, but John Foxe refused. However, if unofficial mediation works then I'm happy. Whatever it takes.

I'm asking this because I was getting ready to file a request for arbitration. I tried that once before but didn't do my homework and it was rejected. But I'll hold off for a while, maybe your efforts will be fruitful, maybe John Foxe will learn something, maybe I'll learn something, or maybe we'll both learn something. Either way, I'm feeling frustrated, I can't continue to invest so much time here with so little result, I have to find a way to break this deadlock. 74s181 12:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

When do you think "We will all learn something, and the article will come out the better for it."? 74s181 14:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Is there something I need to learn? I have never dealt with subtlety well, both input and output. Politely worded, mild correction is beyond my capacity to give or understand. If you're trying to tell me something about my behavior please put the WikiLove aside for a moment and wack me on the head with a 2x4. Thank you. And, BTW, if you've been busy with something else, that's fine, I was just checking. 74s181 14:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking about filing a WP:RfC. I've been compiling some info. What do you think? 74s181 05:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Submitted Request for Comments on John Foxe

For more info, see Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/John Foxe.

One other person needs to certify the RfC within 48 hours or it will be deleted. More information 74s181 06:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: your comments on the RfC: I have studied WP:NPOV and WP:OR. I have quoted from these extensively and repeatedly on the FV talk page, trying to show John Foxe what he is doing wrong, the result? John Foxe said that WP policies are a 'Mormon smokescreen'. Although I focus on John Foxe because he is blatantly ignoring policy, I have also pointed out a couple things to wrp103, who is on the 'LDS' side of the fence.

I have even been self-critical on the talk page, such as when John Foxe suggested that he might consider a separate 'criticism' section, I found WP policy and guideline references both pro and con, quoted excerpts, etc. That is how we ended up calling the 'opinion' section "How people have responded..." and the criticism subsection "Questions about...".

Re: your comment on my talk page - "Turn up your hearing aid". Now I understand what you meant. Please, please understand this. I don't handle subtlety well, both giving or receiving. That is why I may sometimes seem rude, and it is the reason for my earlier comment about the 2x4. If you think I don't understand some aspect of WP:NPOV or other WP policies and guidelines, please, please, give me an example of where I've gone wrong and point me to the appropriate policy. I'll study it, I'll try to change my behavior. I know that recently I often cross the line with John Foxe when it comes to WP:AGF and WP:NPA, but I have been fighting him for so long, I'm trying to play by the rules, he's just laughing at me and doing what he wants. The alternative is to walk away. I can't do that. Either he's wrong, or I'm wrong, or we're both wrong. If I walk away, he'll continue his wrong behavior, I'll continue my wrong behavior, nothing will get fixed. So I'm pressing this to a conclusion. From what I've read, the RfC process will examine me as well as John Foxe, I've seen RfCs where the filer was punished. So, John Foxe or I or both of us are going to get slapped. Either way, I'm going to learn something about myself or about Misplaced Pages or maybe both. Whether John Foxe learns anything is up to him, but right now he believes that any criticism of his edits is just LDS editors trying to push LDS POV. If someone totally unconnected with Mormonism or the article points out his problems, maybe he'll finally get it. 74s181 15:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

This has run longer than I planned. I don't expect a long response. If you think I'm wrong in some way, just point to an example, give me a short explanation of what's wrong with it, and a reference to WP policy or guidelines and I'll try to change. 74s181 15:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. And, BTW, do you see what I meant about the 2x4? You were "deeply embarrassed" that you "carelessly used this offensive phrase", yet I had no idea that you had concerns about my behavior until after I had read your note on the RfC. I was confused, I didn't realize that you had concerns, I went back to my talk page, read it again, and finally got it. From your last comment I think you are saying that you believe I have a problem with WP:NPA and / or WP:AGF, at least when it comes to John Foxe. I agree. 74s181 17:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

On Wikiholiday

Peace and blessings to all. Tom Haws 19:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

LdM AB

Tom, disfrutaste tus vacaciones? Oye, hice más ediciones en el es:Libro de Mormón y nominé el artículo como AB. Hechale un vistazo, eres mejor que yo con lo de las reglas. A ver que piensas. --Bobjgalindo 02:00, 29 October 2007 (UTC) (¿Comentarios?)

Primer AB del WP:SUD

Tom, El Libro de Mormón es un AB. Gracias por tu ayuda, honestamente. Ya vez, poco a poco se va cobrando profundidad al WP:SUD. Lokj, y yo hemos trabajado en pioneros mormones, al que le puse una cantidad de referencias en español para completarla. Anoche me dí de atrevido y lo nominé como AD. Quizás debería solo haberlo nominado como AB, pero bueno. Héchale un vistazo a ver que piensas. El siguiente, que ya empecé, es Nauvoo, el cual también tiene el potencial de ser AB/AD. Un abrazo. Rjgalindo 14:19 28 nov 2007 (CET) (¿Comentarios?)

Deo Volente

Hi Hawstom, are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 03:44, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The group that is know as Jehovah's Witnesses is not my tribe of birth or of choice.  :-) But I love them! Tom Haws (talk) 20:48, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

A Note ...

Tom, I see you still pop in from time to time. I miss working together with you. Those were enjoyable days on WP. Sadly, although I have returned in search of similar encounters, I have been unsuccessful. At least in the areas I like to contribute there is an antagonistic presence, an unreasonable clique that prevails as if over their own territory. DannyMuse (talk) 04:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, Tom. I've not been on much lately, which is probably better. But I did log on today and saw your greeting. Nice to hear from you! -- DannyMuse (talk) 01:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

File:Ratingbar100.png listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Ratingbar100.png, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 05:25, 1 January 2009 (UTC)