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Ordo Templi Orientis (Typhonian)
It is Misplaced Pages policy that an article about an organization should consistently use the name that the organization calls itself, not some other informal name that others may give it. Please observe this convention. Please also note that "Ordo Templi Orientis" is Latin for "The Order of the Temple of the East" - adding "the" in front of it is redundant and also falsely implies that there is only one. Please refrain from introducing this unnecessary and misleading article in front of Ordo Templi Orientis or O.T.O. Thanks. Will in China (talk) 07:16, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Will.
Thank you for your guidance.
Here are my thoughts on the matter. Please do not misinterpret my comments to believe that I am rejecting your views. I do think that some discussion may be helpful, however.
1. While the T.O.T.O. does indeed formally refer to itself as Ordo Templi Orientis, it is as "guilty" of using the "Typhonian" convention as other Thelemic organizations. This can be seen by consulting works by Michael Staley and Simon Hinton, for example, not to mention Kenneth Grant himself. It may, as a result, be seen as a de facto self-description rather than a de jure self-description.
2. The term "Typhonian" indicates that the T.O.T.O. delves much deeper, in its own view, than competing Thelemic organizations. I am not sure that this can be resolved objectively, as this is a view that the T.O.T.O. holds of itself, and it is controversial among other O.T.O. branches.
3. I accept your correction on the article "the." I will re-edit my work to remove it.
Thank you very much.
Cordially,
Estéban (talk) 07:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
- Using T.O.T.O is extremely problematic. First, there are clear rules for disambiguating articles on topics which share a name. This seems to have been correctly done for this article by using Ordo Templi Orientis for the title with (Typhonian) as the disambiguation. Next, the name used in the lead paragraph should be the same as the article title, but without the disambiguator. By all means what it is called and why should also appear in the lead section, and should be in bold like the actual name. It would be much better to have a clear explanation of what Typhonian means in the lead section. Repeating the word throughout the article, though, as part of the organization name is not correct form. For one thing it implies that Misplaced Pages is taking some position with respect to disputes between the two organization, which we cannot do. If and when the organization either voluntarily changes its name and/or is forced to do so though legal action, then the article can and should be moved and the new formal name used throughout the article. Until then it should be referred to by its chosen formal name with an explanation of what else it may be called and why. Will in China (talk) 14:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)