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United States: Presidential elections Unassessed Low‑importance

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Polls

Wasn't Kerry up 5% in the polls just before the election? I'd like to see a section on polls in this article.

65.101.231.48 (talk) 22:42, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Clark County

Is there any reason why there is no mention of the half baked idea of the UK Guardian newspaper to intervene in Clark County? See USA today article Resources here (Bush won Clark county BTW--Stroika (talk) 03:37, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Dubious

the reasoning in the section on votesplitting went: -- people were concerned about the effect of 3rd party candidates --> because of the electoral college one person's vote can effect the voting of an entire state's electoral college delegation's vote --> because the effect of votes for 3rd party candidates didn't swing the popular vote, the election, governed not by the popular vote, but by the easily swayed electoral college, vote splitting didn't effect the election... which is problematic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.144.73 (talk) 09:08, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Close State vs. Battleground States

Shouldn't these two sections be merged, they are pretty much the same thing. Also shouldn't this be completely under "results" not a seperate section. --Levineps (talk) 20:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Debates

There's no mention of presidential primary debates in this entry.

Vandalism

The panel to the right of this article currently shows Kerry to have won the 2004 election. The body text of the article remains correct, as far as I can tell. An editor needs to flag this article as inaccurate until someone puts up the right information. 137.165.240.191 (talk) 20:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

it's been fixed, thanks.. --Versageek 20:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Kerry and Dean in the intro

I've restored the following sentence in the intro:

Both Kerry and Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean have stated their opinion that voting in Ohio did not proceed fairly and that, had it done so, the Democratic ticket might have won that state and therefore the election.

In late January, User:Timmeh removed it, writing: "the source doesn't support the claim that Kerry admitted votes werent counted correctly." From the article:

Kerry conceded, however, that the widespread irregularities make it impossible to know for certain that the outcome reflected the will of the voters.

Kerry clearly opines here that "voting in Ohio did not proceed fairly and that, had it done so, the Democratic ticket might have won that state and therefore the election." Dean concurred, saying:

"I'm not confident that the election in Ohio was fairly decided."

Because both quotes are clearly reflected in the intro sentence, and because such claims are rare and notable in presidential elections, I'm putting the sentence back in. Best, Mdiamante (talk) 21:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

That's all fine, but the sentence doesn't belong in the lead part of the article. It should be in the election controversy section. I'd also be grateful if you could get sources for some of the other info in that section. Timmeh! 23:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Ah, but it does belong. When was the last time that a presidential nominee and the chairman of his national committee directly called an election's result into question? I don't think Nixon or his RNC even did so in 1960. Nobody remotely as prominent has called into question Obama's win, but that page has an election controversies section also.

Kerry and Dean's statements are not normal; they are exceptional, and notable enough to be mentioned in the intro. That's why it's been there since September '07. Per your suggestion, however, I've added two quotes from the article in the main "Controversies" section. Anyone else have any thoughts on this debate? Best, Mdiamante (talk) 02:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Do we have any concrete evidence, showing had there been no irregularities, the Kerry-Edwards ticket would've won? Those are very highly political biased assumptions by Kerry & Dean. GoodDay (talk) 18:21, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Please note that neither Kerry nor Dean actually make the assumption, they only say that the matter is unknowable. But that's a moot point, as the intro never presented their suspicions as fact; it only noted that they'd expressed them, and that in itself is a very rare, and thus notable, occurrence in presidential politics. Best, Mdiamante (talk) 22:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The objective fact that's more notable than the Kerry/Dean statements is the Congressional challenge to Ohio's electoral votes. There was no such challenge perfected (i.e. supported by at least one Representative and at least one Senator) even after the scandalous 2000 election. I don't know when the last time any such challenge occurred -- probably the nineteenth century. Its rarity makes the controversy worth mentioning in the introductory section, and the Dean/Kerry opinions throw light on why the challenge was brought. JamesMLane t c 23:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Good point. I'll try to address that before long.

Kerry and Dean were being sore losers, if they had any evidence whatsoever that there was vote fraud on the scale of 115,000 ballots the Dems would never have conceded the race. It would be notable if some evidence was put forward, but there really isn't any. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 00:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

1. ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.Posted Jun 01, 2006 5:02 PM (Posted June 01, 2006 5:02 PM). "Was the 2004 Election Stolen? : Rolling Stone". Rollingstone.com. Retrieved 2008-11-03. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)

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