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Pseudo-disambiguation

This article was written in WP:SUMMARY style to serve as a pseudo-disambiguation page, i.e., a brief description of various loosely related but very distinct practices and beliefs. As such, it should remain very detached and noncontroversial, and any very specific content should be placed in one of the articles summarized, rather than this article. (The edit I just tightened came close to such a concern, but did not overtly merit a move to a subarticle.) In theory, each summary should be limited to one paragraph. I would appreciate help from other editors in keeping this page free of undue weight. Thanks in advance! JJB 07:41, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to let you know, this was discussed on an earlier version of the page, now moved to Sabbath in Christianity when this was made a disambiguation page. See here. I support this change, as I argued earlier. But we must not ignore the earlier discussion. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 08:02, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Definition

What is the definition of Sabbath? I was under the impression that it mean something like "day of rest".

Oxford dictionary defines it as "(often the Sabbath) a day of religious observance and abstinence from work, kept by Jews from Friday evening to Saturday evening, and by most Christians on Sunday."

American heritage dictionary defines it as "1. The seventh day of the week, Saturday, observed as the day of rest and worship by the Jews and some Christian sects. 2. The first day of the week, Sunday, observed as the day of rest and worship by most Christians."

Under both these definitions, Sabbath#Islam doesn't fit because Islam has no specific day of rest. Both of these dictionaries are from the twenty first century.

However, some dictionaries call Friday as the "Muslim Sabbath".

Thoughts?Bless sins (talk) 15:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

You're better off looking at meanings of the original Hebrew word שבת (Shabbat or Shabbos depending on dialect) which the English form Sabbath is derived from. There's a pretty good discussion of the etymology of the Hebrew term on the Shabbat page at http://en.wikipedia.org/Shabbat#Etymology. Daniel/_T+ 15:50, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

The challenge of this page is that there is no "the definition of Sabbath" in English usage. There may well be a "the definition" or even a "the Biblical definition" but that is not WP's scope; we're only to list all notable POVs about what "the definition" is (see WP:V). Commentary advocating any particular definition would be better at the various broken-out articles (see WP:SUMMARY). JJB 20:43, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I found this Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics Part 20: V. 20 By James Hastings Contributor John A. Selbie Published by Kessinger Publishing, 2003 ISBN 0766136981, 9780766136984 and mentions the probable original of the Hebrew Sabbath stems from the meaning Heart Rest or Mid Rest by the Sumerians;--Pnb73 (talk) 20:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Dbachmann edits

I reverted these edits and one to Sabbath (disambiguation), though they appear well-intentioned, because they did not take into account the article's structure of pseudo-disambiguation as described in the first paragraph of talk above. First, deleting somewhat related practices in Buddhism, Islam, and Unification has no precedent, and those practices are certainly considered "Sabbaths" by significant people-groups (not just general holidays), regardless of their arguably weaker lineage. (If you want to cut one, actually, I think "esbat" is the weakliest-related, but there is no strong reason not to include it here, so I give the benefit of doubt.) Second, the other organizational changes proposed did not result in any appreciable improvement to the outline I had introduced several months ago, and had outlining flaws which are too obvious IMHO to dwell upon. Third, there was no introduction on this talk page to the proposed split, as would be ordinarily proper.

But most important, this page has been a stable solution to all sorts of proposed splits and moves for some time now. The "citations needed" added by Dbachmann refer to statements which have already long appeared in the subarticles linked. (The Boer version is fully reference-cited; the Peru version is not, so "cn" would be appropriate in that article (new moon); not this one, because it is a summary of that article, and if the Peru claim is eventually dropped from that article for lack of citation, it can then be dropped from this one as well.) This is already a form of disambiguation page (in fact, a cross between dab and WP:SUMMARY), but there are so many nuances and twists that a one-line entry for each would not do them justice. And normal dab pages are about heterogeneous items anyway, not homogeneous items such as these, which are all related. (The heterogeneous page already appears properly at Sabbath (disambiguation) and is linked properly here; moving the homogeneous categories to that page was also similarly misintended.) Fact is, people who search "Sabbath" most probably want one or more of the homogeneous meanings; in disambiguating links to Sabbath, I found many where the context did not specify Jewish, Christian, or other Sabbath (often deliberately), and therefore that link could refer to any or all: and so such a pseudodab page is precisely what such a link should point to. (Time to do that dab search again!) The claim that these topics are unqualifiedly "unrelated" is not a strong prop.

So thanks for the desire to help, but I think you will be happier with the extant solution if you consider it a bit more. Please let me know if there is some concern driving these edits which I did not address. Next time, sweeping changes might be better introduced by a talk proposal first. Thank you! JJB 14:03, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

why are you posting this here and not to the disambiguation page talkpage? I have never heard of "pseudo-disambiguation". Per WP:DAB, the only purpose of this page is presenting a structured list of articles on topics that may be referred to as "Sabbath". Also, I see no reference that Jumu'ah is called "Sabbath" by anyone. The translation of uposatha as "Sabbath" is referenced somewhat contortedly in the uposatha article. Sure, day of rest may be called "sabbath" in somewhat antiquated English, but it isn't made clear why this point of terminology is so important. Perhaps the scope of this article is really "days of rest in various religions", and could beneficially be moved to day of rest. Either way, this article isn't exepmt from citing its sources and establishing that its topic is well-defined and not a product of WP:SYN. --dab (𒁳) 11:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

The First Sabbath

The first biblical account of the Sabbath occurs in the 16th chapter of Exodus when the children of Israel collect manna for six days and rest on the seventh day. It is incorrectly believed that the first account of the Sabbath takes place in Genesis, which is Moses' account of The Creation.

After the institution of the Sabbath Day (in the book of Exodus), the children of Israel arrive at Mt. Sinai. Here, at the mountain, Moses (the accredited author of Genesis) receives the ten commandment law and a vision of the creation of Heaven and Earth in six days. Observing the law of the Sabbath, Moses does not see anything created on the seventh day (of his vision).

If it is to be falsely assumed that the Sabbath day occurs first, chronologically, in Genesis, then the history from Adam to Moses would have mentioned the Sabbath being observed by others (i.e. Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Montazmeahii (talk • contribs) 02:08, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Sábado

Sábado looks a lot like Sabbath, and it's the Spanish word to Saturday. Could sábado have been derived from sabbath?

Sir Sanjuro (talk) 21:40, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at Week-day_names#Starting_Sunday you can see the similarities between Sábado and other translations of Sabbath for Saturday. --Pnb73 (talk) 15:12, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Merge

The following dialogue was merged from Talk:Day of rest, describing the merge of day of rest into Sabbath. JJB 23:35, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Personally I do not understand the purpose of this article. It will turn out to be a duplication of content that is already in Sabbath, Shabat or Sabbath in Christianity. As it stands, it appears to have been copied word-for-word out of Sabbath in Christianity. It should be merged. Tonicthebrown 14:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I redirected it but the creator (no pun intended) reverted it back. As it stands, it is a redundant, useless stub. This page could also be turned into a disambiguation to point to Shabat and Sabbath in Christianity, which is my favored course of action at this time. Tim Shuba 20:28, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• I disagree. I created this article after seeing other articles that referenced Sabbath, intending it to mean a generic day of rest. The Sabbath article is a disambiguation page that references various days of rest, but also includes many other definitions of the term, with no definition of a day of rest. A day of rest is not just a Judeo-Christian concept, but transcends various religious communities, as seen by the references to the Day of Rest article from a wide variety of sources and other articles. The term is also used in secular fashion, as a justification for retention of blue laws. The Supreme Court of the United States, in its landmark 1961 ruling McGowan v. Maryland, cites the fact that "The present purpose and effect of most of our Sunday Closing Laws is to provide a uniform day of rest for all citizens" among its reasons for the constitutionality of such laws. Given all of these factors, the concept of a "Day of rest" exists independently of a Jewish or Christian Sabbath and its use as such justifies a standalone article. Alansohn 20:39, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect, I am not convinced. The blue laws which you have referenced are derived directly from the Christian concept of Sunday rest. Some people may claim it as a secular practice now, but the origins are entirely religious. As for your remarks about other articles, all the articles that link to Day of rest are religious in nature. Moreover, the Blue law article itself is very clear that the origins of such laws are religious.

There is no reason why the content here can't be merged into either Sabbath or Blue law. This article as it stands is a content fork. Tonicthebrown 14:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

• While there is clearly (and necessarily) overlap with the target articles suggested, this article exists as a standalone article because neither article addresses the concept of a day of rest, either in its traditional religious usage or in its more recent secular definition. The effort to add a definition of "day of rest" at the Sabbath article is a well-intentioned effort, but it doesn't adequately elaborate the definition of the term, nor can the Sabbath article, in its current form as a disambiguation page, provide a proper and through definition of the term. The details regarding blue laws are already in that article, but specific references to the concept of a "secular day of rest" are included here that would make little sense in the Blue law article and would make no sense whatsoever to include in the Sabbath article. The claim that this is a content fork is unjustified, as it is not a fork of any existing article. As there is a need for a clear, well-defined and sourced meaning of a "day of rest", as this concept exists in multiple religions across the earth and is not a strictly Judeo-Christian concept, as there is no single place that would be a useful repository for this information, and as all of the proposed targets would fail to provide a proper definition, this article needs to exist, as is, on a standalone basis. Alansohn 06:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Even though people attribute a day of rest to various religious beliefs, there is nothing that says that people without religious beliefs do not deserve the same day of rest. There is no reason to call it anything other than a day of rest. People with religious beliefs call it by various names, all with respect to the Hebrew Shabbat. Non religious people may find it offensive to have to align themselves with something of a religious nature. Or people who are not of the Judeo-Christian beliefs and all the variants of them, may also find it offensive to have to align themselves in a similar manner. Just calling it a day of rest should be good enough. All people deserve to have at least one day off. Having to also align a day of rest with respect to any blue laws also puts one in mind of religious days, which those who have secular beliefs should not have to associate themselves with. Trying to force individuals to observe a day of rest on any one particular day will force them to change their lifestyles to comply with the whims of religious orders. It should be up to the individual to determine which day they would like to take off.Infidel at large (talk) 03:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Now that I have made Sabbath a pseudo-disambiguation page the concept "day of rest" can redirect there without intruding on the objections of the article's creators. Since "day of rest" might mean almost any of the subtopics on the Sabbath page (among which is the topic of blue laws), it is best to redirect to the top of that page. The first half of day of rest was already duplicated at Sabbath and Sabbath in Christianity, and the second half I have just merged into blue laws. This arrangement should help toward keeping all the Sabbath/rest day topics better-organized. JJB 08:56, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I like the work you've done. Good stuff. Colin MacLaurin (talk) 07:43, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Verifiablity

The Misplaced Pages policy of Verifiability states that all material must be attributed to a reliable, published source. The summary style guideline does not mean that references are unneeded. First of all it's a guideline and not a policy and thus cannot overrule policy; secondly the summary style guideline regarding external links and references states that it's a good way to organize further reading and external link sections, not to get rid of them. It also states that not all references for the subtopic are needed in the main article, but that doesn't mean that none are needed. Instead it specifically it points back to the Verifiability policy noting that materials need references. On a separate note, there is no connection with the Islamic jumu'ah with the Baha'i day of rest; there is a connection with the Islamic day of rest with the Baha'i day of rest, but making the connection to congregational prayer which is specifically a prohibition in the Baha'i religion is original research and there are no sources making that connection. Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 18:40, 15 March 2009 (UTC)