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I'm more impressed that we're seeing you at FAC!! I'm glad we haven't scared you off ;) (and good luck dealing with the random vandalism today) Karanacs (talk) 13:18, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks all of you – Noel Park's promotion at FAC with Hellingly on the front page makes today a rather fortuitous bit of timing. (Karanacs, you might be seeing Bruce Castle at FAC at some point as well. And maybe even Eilley if some of the rough edges can be knocked off.) – iridescent20:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Further replies – David, I haven't forgotten to review the GNPBR article, I just haven't had time to read it top to toe; and Realist2, speaking of front pages, even though it's still four months off you might want to start looking at what should go on the main page on July 8; with the sole exception of the presidential election, this may be the first day in Misplaced Pages's history where it's possible to predict in advance what the lead news story worldwide will be, and you may well break the hits-per-day record. – iridescent20:19, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Any chance that you (or one of your talk-page stalkers) could look over the prose at Jesus College Boat Club (Oxford)? I've put it up for peer review here to see what comments I get about whether it's a potential FA, and given your skills with getting smaller articles to FA, you might be just the person. </crawl> Regards, and thanks for any help you can give. No rush. Bencherlite16:12, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Will do; am going to be quite busy so it may not be for a couple of days. Something I can see straight off is that you might want to rename the subheads of the References section "References" and "Bibliography" and swap the order (see Noel Park for example) – "General references" and "Specific references" look odd to me. To someone like me who knows nothing about rowing, the lead seems a bit incomprehensible as well – I know every bit of jargon is linked to an explanation, but it makes it a bit choppy to read – would it be possible to reword it (for example, "Neither the men's nor the women's 1st VIIIs have ever been Head of the River during Eights Week, the main inter-college rowing competition…" → "Neither the men's or women's teams have ever won the main inter-college rowing competition…"), or would that distort the meaning too much? – iridescent16:52, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
timestamp to stop this archiving before I get round to doing it 12:47, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I need a bot or tool...
Hey, over at Michael Jackson and Thriller (album), I want to make alterations to the formatting of references, which would take days to complete manually. I want to change the dates from the current format 11-11-05 to November 11, 2005. Can this be done using a tool of some description? Best. — R19:45, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Don't know if Citation bot could handle this; if not, I'd suggest asking at somewhere like WT:FAC (as both articles you're talking about are already FAs, you won't get a "how dare you step on our hallowed turf?" reaction) – someone there is bound to know.Iridescent 2 (talk) 15:47, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Lightmouse's script is great, highly recommended, but it doesn't change the format of dates in citations, only in the article body. --MalleusFatuorum16:24, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I've asked for assistance at WT:FAC, per Irids advice. Malleus, a few questions, if I can. Do you know of any methods (other than manually) and what is your preference when it comes to dates in the references? In recent months I've come to prefer the November 11, 2005 style, you? Does the style even matter to featured articles (at the time of the FAC's there was never an issue raised). Best :) — R16:38, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the correction Malleus. Realist, when I need to change date formats in references myself, I use User:Dr pda/editrefs.js. It doesn't change date formats for you (which is why I didn't recommend this approach in the first place), but does let you edit only the references, which is much less painful than wading through the full text to get to refs. It's a handy tool for tweaking ref formats for any purpose. Maralia (talk) 16:58, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
I've always done it manually in the past, but it ought to be possible to use WP:AWB I'd have thought. I prefer either 11 November 2005 or November 11, 2005 to the ISO-style dates in citations, depending on the article's subject. At present FAC only demands that dates are formatted consistently in the article body and in the citations, but it does allow for the formatting to be different in both, mainly because the various citation templates have historically been pretty rubbish at handling dates. My strong preference is to have consistent date formatting throughout the entire article, and I've no doubt that'll become an FAC requirement in the future as well. --MalleusFatuorum17:04, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Gary King just created a specific tool and converted the dates for me, thanks all :) — R18:35, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi Iridescent. It was submitted to WP:GAN on 13 March 2009 and I read it in full on Friday evening (27th March 2009). I noticed from my watch list earlier this evening, when I was intending to do the review, that you had undertaken five edits this afternoon. As you say these are the first changes since 1 March 2009. I have no objections at all to you editing the article; but I don't see why I should review an article that is in the middle of being changed. It was flaged up as being under review when you started copyediting it. The criteria are here: WP:Good article criteria, but I'm happy to accept that (lack of) stability is not due to content dispute and/or edit wars. Let me know when you have finished editing it and I will restart the GAN review. P.S. I was particularly interested in the article; and you have a link to SubBrit's webpage (1984 & 1997) visits. I was there on the 1984 one.Pyrotec (talk) 20:30, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
The only changes were ultra-cosmetic – splitting the "previous stations" into subheadings to stop it being so dominant, and reworing one sentence to avoid the problem-word "economical"; aside from that there was no substantive change at all. Sorry if I came across as snappy, but you can rest assured that the article is stable – as I said, aside from the initial creation, there's not a single change in the entire history that isn't cosmetic. (I don't suppose you have any photos from the SubBrit visit? At the moment, all the photos on there other than the seafront are fair-use; a picture of the inside of the tunnel would be great.) – iridescent21:39, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
So far, I have found one box of colour transparencies labelled "Dover II, June '84", the last nine frames of which were taken in the railway / air raid shelters at "Folkstone". There must also be a box III (and possibly box IV) as a lot were taken over that weekend; which included Dover, Folkstone, Ramsgate and Margate. Whether I can scan any of the Ramsgate slides, when I find them, to produce usable images is another matter. They will not be not in the same league as Nick Catford's photos, who produces excellent images using multiple lighting sources. In those days I just used one large flash gun and the fastest transparency stock (sometimes/often 500 ASA) that I could get hold off.Pyrotec (talk) 19:47, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
It shouldn't be a problem – as you say, Nick Catford's images are excellent quality, and I've included a link to the main SubBrit gallery at the end of the article for anyone who wants to know more. The current version includes two fair-use images, but I think they're clearly a legitimate use as (obviously) neither the railway in operation, nor the tunnel in use as a wartime shelter, can be replicated today. It would be nice to have at least one free use photo of some kind on there (there are a few free-use photos of the old Ramsgate Harbour station floating about, but none I can find of the Tunnel Railway in operation) – but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. (As you may have seen, I've now sent it to FAC, which generally triggers a trial-by-ordeal for any fair use images, so that will resolve the image issues one way or the other. Initially I didn't intend to take this one as far as FAC, but seeing as its near-twin Hellingly Hospital Railway passed recently, there's no reason this one shouldn't. Iridescent : Chat 19:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Absolutely. If it's all right with you, I'm going to ask Durova – who's probably our best "image rescuer" – if she has any thoughts about cleaning it up and fixing the colour balance (it might actually work better in black and white). – iridescent21:32, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Looks good, although the color balance is still a bit funny. Incidentally, do you (Pyrotec) know exactly what it shows – is it the Hereson Road tunnel entrance? – iridescent21:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I've had another shot, but Durova is right about how much work can be done. The new image is certainly sharper, but I don't think I've sorted the WB issue. — neuro22:08, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I've added a PNG version at thumb. Sorry that was the first and only time that I had been to Ramsgate. I remember going in at road-level at a busy place. We went down some steps and explored the big tunnel, small tunnel and the air raid shelters. Interestingly, the public steps down to the air raid shelter were still in situ, but just covered by concrete beams. Through the joints, I could see and hear people working over the tops of the beams. When we came out I noticed the beams in the pavement. I will try and find a "surface" photograph - but I'm not sure if I took any.Pyrotec (talk) 09:55, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Having re-read the article to see what you are asking: it is a photograph taken underground, and it is (I believe) the junction between the original 1860s London, Chatham and Dover Railway railway tunnel and the new new-bore 1930s tunnel.Pyrotec (talk) 14:46, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks to Durova for above-and-beyond work in cleaning the image up; this is exactly what the article needed to illustrate both the relative smallness of the tunnel and its post-closure condition. Thanks to you, of course, for providing the original image! – iridescent14:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey, mine's longer than yours. So to speak. Anyway, she's longer than plenty of the hurricanes and bishops. I suspect if/when I get round to my "bridges" series, I'll provoke Sandy into reviving the "minimum length" rule – I'm deliberately leaving the low-hanging fruit of bridges that actually have some history for others to do (although I may make an exception to clean up this mess since it's such a high-importance article), and concentrating on the much-ignored Battersea Railway Bridge and Elizabeth Way Bridge type, where there really isn't much to say except "It's a bridge over river foo in the town of bar". If I get enough of them done for a particular town, I might see if I can get them to FT status. Don't hold your breath, though. Iridescent : Chat 20:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Hey now! Not ALL my bishops are short. I promise this is the last really short one for a bit. I just wanted to get this stupid FT done... Ealdgyth - Talk21:39, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I wonder if you can best Hanging Bridge though? A medieval bridge that was was built, buried, uncovered, covered over again, excavated again ... over a river/stream that everyone's long forgotten .., some articles just scream out for attention. --MalleusFatuorum22:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I recently put Michael Jackson on peer review if you would like to make suggestions on prose issues etc. Major alterations are better discussed on the article talk page where consensus can be gauged and archived. Best. — R03:24, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I'll give it a look over, but I don't do much with biographies so may not be the best person to ask. It might be a good idea to ask someone who's never had any involvement with it but is more familiar than me with Misplaced Pages's biographical conventions to have a skim. Most of the "regular" readers of this page will probably choke on their coffee at these two suggestions, but Epbr123 and TonyTheTiger might actually be quite good ones to ask in this particular case. (Epbr is a nitpicker par excellence and nitpicking is what I assume you're looking for, plus he took Kate Bush through FAC so is familiar with the unique problems of music biographies; Tony is generally engaged in a permanent argument with SandyGeorgia but has churned out numerous BLPs, and although he usually only does Chicago-related articles Gary is only just over the border so might be close enough for him.)
One thing I've done is change the references to {{reflist|colwidth=25em}} – this is one of those obscure bits of wiki-coding that comes in handy for very long articles, and means the references reformat themselves depending on screen width – so instead of the four-column references you had (which would be unreadably narrow on an iphone or palmtop, for example) the number of columns will be (screen width)/(25×em) – a fancy way of saying the number of columns adjusts itself according to your font settings and browser width. Try changing the size of your browser window to see what I mean. – iridescent11:41, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I've told him to get it on DYK when he set's it up in article space. He will then take to GA. Some of it is hilarious, particularly the part about Bubbles being the ring holder at Elizabeth Taylor's (17th surely) marriage. — R16:11, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
He's going to nominate it very soon, but he's concerned it's not expanded enough. This might be interesting. — R20:01, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I can't see any issues with it at all, but as it's on a subject about which I know absolutely nothing, I'll hold off on commenting on the FAC itself, unless it starts to look like it's going to be archived through lack of responses; I know so little about it that I can't judge the content side of things, while my relationship with the MOS is shaky to say the least. I generally avoid commenting at FAC unless it's either to raise very obvious issues (contradictory/untrue statements or glaring flaws), or on the early 20th century rail transport articles where I know enough about the subject to judge. (FWIW, I see no problem at all with linking "lagoon" and "canal" – I don't understand people who complain about overlinking, when the links do no harm and might be useful.) – iridescent18:37, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Iridescent. Sorry about the latest problem with BotKung. I have tracked down to the specific problem that caused the bot to malfunction. It was caused by specific case with pages that needs to resolve redirection and it got the old revision id it pulled up earlier when loading the text of the redirected page. This problem is now fixed in the latest version of BotKung and this problem should not happen again. Please unblock it so it can continue to operate properly as it should be. Thanks! --Jutiphan | Talk - 15:20, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Unblocked; obviously, if it starts causing problems again it will have to be re-blocked. That's not a criticism of you, but purely a protective measure to stop it causing problems. – iridescent18:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Did some work on it yesterday, saved under a new name. Not sure if you saw the link at my user talk. Best, Durova17:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks very much – that's exactly what was needed! (If you haven't seen it already, this is the thread discussing the use of the image, while this is the FAC in question.) – iridescent14:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Uncontroversial mass deletions
Could i ask you to delete a load of pages at WP:MOTD (saves me having to tag them all)? How this works is that every day a new motto appears and after that day has finished, the motto has expired. At the end of every month, all the mottos are substed from the days to keep a record of the approved ones in the schedule.
I just did February, if I get ten minutes, I'll do March - tedious job. Any reason you can't just cycle through 31 pages, and reuse them? HTH Kbthompson (talk) 12:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
There the one's for 2009 and the way the process has been set up (not by me, before i arrived at MOTD) they seem to be once only. Oh and don't do April as the mottos have not been substed yet and most have not expired either. Simply south (talk) 12:32, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
The Thames boat services are to be made easier with for example, more integration, a new ferry service from London Bridge to Canary Wharf, extending Tower Pier and acceptence of Oyster Pay as you go.
The London Overground's Stratford platforms will open later this month
Taxi fares in London increase by 3.4%
A bird photo competition, with partnership between tfl and RSPB, is launched
March 2009
£9.2 billion is to be used to deliver many transport improvements in the tube, Crossrail, DLR, East London Line and Cycle Hire
A £4.2 million programme is launched to help promote sustainable travel in the London Borough of Richmond
Southern Gas Networks has been prosecuted for breaking rules on street works
Various service changes will occur from late April until December to facilitate upgrade work on London Overground
Two weeks were left for Community Cycling Fund for London to apply for grants help promote cycling
Major work on A406 to facilitate gas works for three months
New artwork for tube map cover
Consultation begins on London Permit Scheme
A map is launched showing Coach Parking in central London
A bridge on Dalston Lane will be replaced in late May to help with the running of the East London Line Extension
A spring campaign is launched to warn drivers to watch out for motorcyclists
From December, Circle Line services will extend to Hammersmith
£1 million used to help set up car club package for residents as essentially a car-for-hire service within five minutes walk over next two years. Cars will have designated spots where they can be used on a pay-as-you-go service.
New bus lane in the centre of Mitcham speeds up journeys
The revamped Tower Gateway station reopens early
Blackfriars LU station closes for 2 years for Thameslink Programme upgrades. The National Rail stations remains open.
February 2009
Operation Quash tackles crime on commonly shared routes in the boroughs of Barnet, Hillingdon and Harrow
Tim O' Toole, Managing Director of the London Underground steps down
At Stratford station, an exhibition of art, the Stratford Hoard, has been extended to summer
A theatre troupe called New You See Me Now You Don't is to tour schools from March four 4 months to increase awareness of road safety
Arrests by the Met and TfL lead to a crackdown on illegal cabs
A new system is launched allowing freight drivers to compare collisions, emissions, fuel use and fines and charges against other operators
A digital map which shows speed limits has been released by TfL for download
Operation Ridgeway, an attempt to combat antisocial behavior and pickpocketing on London buses leads to over 1000 arrests
As a result of the "Travel Smarter Sutton" scheme, cycling in that area has increased by 50%
Stansted Express sells Visitor Oyster cards
TfL invites manufacturers to look at new bus model
Please note that events are arranged from newest at the top to oldest at the bottom.
Member News
No members joined or left this project during the the period between this release and the last one
There are currently 70 members!
This WikiProject would not be where it is today without each and every one of its members! Thank you to all!
General
On the assessment side, there are still a lot of articles that need to be assessed for their quality and their importance to this project. Interest has now dipped in this area. Have we reached our peak or are there more out there?
Good luck to the people involved with to all the people involved in getting Edgar Speyer from good article status to featured article status. Well done for this achievement.
Please can people become more involved with other areas of the portal. The portal still seems to be only gaining contributions on the selected article and picture areas but now this area seems to be losing interest.
As usual, this issue is in the current format and is still awaiting suggestions for other improvements. The two newest DYK suggestions were added below. As a bonus if you add your DYK to the portal, it will also be added to the newsletter next time.
Please provide any suggestions for any improvements to this newsletter and any comments or anything else to include in the next issue. Please can ideas be given for a better layout on this newsletter. Feedback is much appreciated.
This newsletter is also looking for another editor to collaborate with since the departure of Unisouth. I am currently going to be busier until June so could i please ask that during the start of May, someone could create the may newsletter? If anyone is up for the task, pleasee use my talk page and i will give the sources of information for this issue (including some new sources thanks to a recent change mentioned above).
Newsletters for the time being will be launched during the months.
This edition would not be here if not for the feedback, support from many people and the paper's subscribers and I would like to thank you all.
Various transport stub templates were merged into one although this has resulted in some duplication
The list of London Underground stations is currently under a featured review (at the time of writing)
Template:London Buses was proposed with deletion but this was kept.
Did you know
...that Belsize Park station is one of the only eight stations in London to have a deep level bomb shelter beneath it?
…that Mile End tube station is the only station on the London Underground network from which it is possible to reach any other station with only a single change of train?
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Jimbo deleted the section and Larry just added it again. Check the history. I will revert any edits that add the section unless Jimbo changes his mind. Griffinofwales (talk) 18:05, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
And if you do it three times I will block you for edit warring. You are not the censor of Misplaced Pages, and Jimmy Wales is perfectly capable of removing a post himself if he objects to it. – iridescent18:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
You keep making the same statement, but you should be blocking Sanger for 3RR, as Jimbo has removed the message twice. Making Jimbo dance is not the way we're going to do things; he's seen the message, removed it twice. It doesn't belong. You're not applying your supposed principles--including 3RR--evenly as Sanger would already be blocked. --David Shankbone18:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
David, I see Jimbo removing the post once – his other "decline to participate" removal was the removal of a completely different thread posted by GTD. Do you really not realize that every revert your tag-team is making provides another round of ammunition for Misplaced Pages's critics? – iridescent18:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
He's deleted two threads about the same topic. That's enough. He doesn't want it on his User Talk page. That's enough. Meanwhile Sanger has restored with SPAs another two . If you're going to go around threatening 3RR to people, you need to be a little more even-handed. --David Shankbone18:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Shankbone, pull it together. When the shit hits the media fan, it's going to be all the worse for your stupidity in this situation. لennavecia18:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Help Request - Robert Sungenis
I was wondering if you could help me with the article for Robert Sungenis. An editor who has previously been reprimanded and who is also an associate of Robert Sungenis (Mark Wyatt - WyattMJ) has put warning signs that the article may be up for speedy deletion and other warnings. Is this legitimate? And can he simply put up a warning like that on his own authority? (Or did someone give him permission?).
The article is the result of a lot of back and forth and careful research. Although there could be some things that are out of date or whatever. The last time he got involved it was as if Sungenis were writing the article himself. So I could use some direction and help if you would be so kind. I really don't want to see this article destroyed again - there have been Sungenis supporters who come in from time to time and basically vandalize it.
OK, complicated situation; because this falls under our rules on Biographies of Living People, the standards here are higher than for other articles, and we do take the subject of the article's wishes into account in situations like this. If the article is potentially defamatory (eg, contains claims which aren't reliably sourced and would be potentially detrimental to the subject), any user is correct to remove the material in question (and even repeated removals won't count as edit warring). Although this article does seem to be sources, I'm not sure how reliable the sources are, as it's a topic I'm not familiar with. I'd suggest contacting someone like User:Jennavecia who works more closely with contentious biographies of living people, to get a firmer opinion of whether this article is acceptable; alternately, you could set up a deletion discussion on the article to get a broader consensus one way or the other as to whether the article should be kept and if so, what needs to be cleaned up. (I can set up a deletion debate for you if you're having trouble with the rather convoluted process.) Hope that helps! – iridescent16:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps you are not familiar with the history, but the information on "blogs" that were cited has been published by well-known individuals, all of whom have worked for Sungenis. Sungenis has written multiple public articles in response to these individuals at the blog and website cited. Sungenis's own bishop responded to one of these individuals and his letter is posted in full there. In fact, that letter from the bishop - posted solely at the Sungenis and Jews blog - was referenced in the Washington Post and an article in Religion News Service. So, they seemed to find it credible enough. Also, the admins who have stepped in have even deleted the material cited from Sungenis' own articles. Apparently, Sungenis' own website isn't a credible source? Just seems too hard to figure out.....
The subject's own website would be a reliable source for information on his opinions, but wouldn't be a reliable source for information on his biography. Likewise, blog postings would be reliable sources for the fact that someone said something on the blog, but not for broader facts.
Your vid clip 'An administrator "assuming good faith" with an editor with whom he has disagreed' cracked me up. Thanks! --Philcha (talk) 13:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Iridescent. Thanks for posting the first question at my nascent RfA! How exciting. Do you feel honored? I came here because you included the phrase "in your own words", and that made me laugh. I want to know whose words you thought I might use? I'm definitely not making fun, so I hope it won't be taken that way. The interweb is such a poor communication device really, even with all sorts of emoticons and what not. I also want to apologize for this inane posting, but I'm curious about what your response will be. Also, (since this is already an utterly absurd posting on my part), I noticed a reversion on Jimbo's page of the "co-" where he says he founded Misplaced Pages. I'm inspired to put "ChildofMidnight co-founded Misplaced Pages" on my user page, but humor is a dangerous game in this business so I'm wondering if it would be inappropriate. On the one hand I see that it's possible someone might misunderstand and take it seriously, or understand and think I'm making fun, but on the other hand the suggestion has been made that Jimbo can write his page how he wants so I'm wonder if I can write mine as I want to? Or is this just a case of "otherthingsexist" type justification. And I'm not really meaning to weigh into the politics involved one way or the other. My thinking is that as Misplaced Pages is said to be founded on and by all its contributors a defense could be made of the statement that I am a cofounder. But I don't want to be accused of Wikilawyering of course. Anyway, these are the type of trivialities I ponder and find interesting when I'm not editing. I look forward to answering your question when I'm fresher (whether or not my RfA goes forward) but I'm a bit pooped at the moment so I hope you'll be patient. How long have you been editing here? What are your favorite parts? Which of your contributions are your favorites? I suppose I should probably read your userpage first, maybe you've already answered... Anyway, sorry about the long posting. Perhaps it will serve to deter other editors from making inquiries (or is it enquiries? I can never keep them straight) at my RfA if they think they might get some kind of rambling posting like this. Okay, well, thanks for being you. I find the Wikiworld really quite fascinating. And you heavyhitters and whatever magic you do behind the curtain or on the IRC boards or wherever else the subtle mechanisms that keep this whole thing spinning happen are an interesting species that I little understand. Talk to you later. Feel free to remove this in its entirety at your discretion. I will not be offended in the least. Cheerios. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:00, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
(When I posted that, the RFA was live; it was de-transcluded immediately after. I wasn't trying to jump the gun!) That question was worded in that "in your own words" phrasing for a reason; I don't know the ins-and-outs of the situation or have an opinion as to who is right, but I remembered seeing you on the flameboards recently and wanted your take as to what was actually going on there. "Recent conflict" doesn't automatically disqualify you, but how you handle it is possibly the single biggest factor in determining how you'd handle admin status (which means people posting complaints about your "abuse" all the time).
You can put pretty much anything you want on your userpage, within reason, but you might want to steer clear of the whole "co-founded" argument. Not because there would be anything wrong with it, but because two of Misplaced Pages's highest-profile figures squabbling like toddlers fighting over the last remaining Tootsie Roll in the bag is already a distinctly unedifying sight and you don't want to be associated with it, even by proxy; plus, Jimmy Wales has a very unpleasant habit of summarily blocking people he thinks are being rude about him.
I've been here as an IP since mid-2005 – this was pre-Siegenthaler when IP editing didn't carry a stigma. The "Iridescent" account was only used for editing the occasional semi-protected page. In late 2006 I started making all contributions under this account, both because the whole BLP issue had started to flare up and the IP=evil idea had started, and because I'd started to work on my first really long article (Central Communications Command) and it was easier to do it from a logged-on account.
Hard to say a "favourite part". Where Misplaced Pages is at its best is when there's a relatively obscure topic which Britannica wouldn't cover, but which a small group of experts has expanded into something where one can jump from link-to-link finding out stuff you never knew. WP:FT is usually a good place to start in finding these walled gardens.
My personal favorite contributions are my Moselle Valley series (Noel Park, Bruce Castle, Broadwater Farm, The Mall (Wood Green), with more following occasionally), both because they form a coherent set, and because they're genuinely useful to the reader and provide information on obscure-but-notable topics. While it has serious stylistic problems and isn't going to be bothering FAC any time soon, I'm also very fond of A1 road, which (if I do say so myself) takes an inherently deeply boring topic and does a good job of explaining to the general reader why they should care about it. I'm also fond of some of the images I've added, particularly the series of scenes of London riverbanks (see below – despite rural appearances, all of these were taken in central or west London).
I wouldn't call me a "heavy hitter" by any stretch, despite the attempts of some (waves in the general direction of the Misplaced Pages Review and the IRC kids) to paint me as an Evil Member Of The Cabal. Aside from the occasional IP vandal and spammer I happen to stumble across, the last block I carried out was in November, and I have virtually no presence on the "sausage factory" acronym-boards (WP:ANWT:FAC, WP:VPT, WT:MOS, WP:BLPN…) where the actual work of grinding out Misplaced Pages policy goes on.
Thanks very much for your response. I wasn't meaning to be snarky about the "honor" of posting the first comment at my RfA. It was a bad attempt at self-deprecating humor. I think it's cool that anyone would take the time to post a legit question and be interested in the response. But I also understand that my chances of a succesful RfA are slim to none, thus the honor joke was meant to be at my expense.
I very much enjoyed reading your response. I wonder if you'd consider putting it on your userpage, perhaps tucked at the bottom in case anyone wants to read about your article work and interests? In an ideal world I think that would be what our userpages would include, but at present they serve other purposes.
Those are some interesting articles, and I like the photos and the featured topic page you mentioned. I haven't had a chance to look at all of it yet. I went to work on one of the though, I hope you don't mind. I've always been fascinated with the rail lines and waterways that connect our cities. In New York, where I'm from, there are the Hudson and East rivers (as well as other waterways) and their banks and shorelines are almost completely blotted with industry, industrial sotrage and tranportation lines (roads and rail-lines). But the little fishing holes and the accesible "nature" along these arteries is very interesting stuff. Hopefully more areas can be reclaimed a bit and made accesible so more interaction between the humanoid and natural species living side by side, but in isolated environments from one another, can come into contact more.
I agree with your answer on the "co-founder" issue. Bottom line, I didn't really co-found Misplaced Pages, so it's probably not a good thing to put there and would amount to provocation for provocation sake. I do think it would be funny though.
Finally, and perhaps it's my way of answering your question, I'd like to know what you think a successful approach would be to fixing articles that need work when there are a few editors obstructing progress? Usually I move on, but what about in a case where you think the subject is worthwhile enough to follow through?
And as long as I've got you here :) (and you seem game to reply to enquiries) how do I get the project templates standardized? It seems rather a simple thing to resolve that all of them start with either WP, WikiProject, or leave that bit out entirely, instead of the present system where there is {{river}}{{WikiProject Food and Drink}} and {{WPBiography}}.{ I'd also like to know how I can get an article discussion board going. Certainly a place to seek outside input in a timely manner would be a good thing, right? And there are lots of notice boards and dispute resolution mechanisms, but the means for civilized discussion and the seeking of broader input seems rather restricted. Yes, I know the article discussion page is meant to be where the discussions take place, but I see no harm in getting wider input on a particular issue when it arises that would be an alternative to seeking RfCs and the other processes already in place. Wouldn't it be nice if you could post a question somewhere and get some additional opinions from the folks?
I have a selection of articles I've significantly worked on on my userpage, which I'd have thought ought to be enough to give an idea of my interests when it comes to Misplaced Pages.
When it comes to "a few editors obstructing progress", it depends on what you mean. If someone's demonstrably inserting something you know and can prove is wrong, you're perfectly in your right to complain or challenge it. If a number of people keep reverting something you add/remove, on the other hand, there's a very good chance that they're right and you're wrong, particularly on longer articles; despite Misplaced Pages's reputation as being full of cranks, most people who write longer articles here are genuine experts on the subject, and most of our "core" articles are the result of years of discussion and consensus, and those involved can get very irritated at users who add well-intentioned "improvements" that potentially alter the meanings or balance of articles.
Regarding "discussions and means of seeking input", they already exist, aside from the article talk pages themselves. For queries about new articles you've written, try RFF; for "final cleanup" of issues on articles that are almost complete and ready to go through the FAC process, try PR; for general discussion of Misplaced Pages policy, software issues etc, go to WP:VP and its assorted sub-pages. From a skim over your history, there seems to be a lot of you charging into discussions with an "I'm always right" mentality and arguing with people who are genuine experts in their fields. – iridescent17:00, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks again for taking the time to read my comments and reply. The RFF board is neat and I wasn't aware of it. Is there a particular example where you think I'm barging in? I thought being bold was encouraged. One person's bold is another person's rash I suppose.
With regard to the Frank issue, as an example and the one you cited in your RfA question, if you look into Barney Frank at all, you will see that the man is a Democratic politician who has been a prominent advocate for gay rights and other issues like medical marijuana (covered in the article extensively), and that he has had a long tenure as the leading Democrat on the financial services committee. Apart from personal opinions and the debates regarding the issues involved, I think it's reasonable to expect that the introduction to an article should include the key bits of his life's work and accomplishments.
Certainly there is a proper way to handle content disputes, and no one is going to accuse me of having a gentle touch, but at some point both sides have to be willing to come to the table with reasonable proposals that are consistent with guidelines. Maybe you've never encountered a situation where an editor or two purposefully engages in obstruction wholly apart from discussing the merits of the content involved (and rallies others to what then is made into a political cause).
At present the article's short introduction includes a very flattering assessment of Mr. Frank from Bill Clinton's speech writer, but doesn't mention his political party, that he is an advocate for gay rights, or say much about his notable role as a person with major political power and involvement in a critical function of government: oversight of the banking sector. These assertions are so basic, in fact, that there isn't really much to quibble about as far as whether they need to be included, and yet they have been objected to entirely. It's the equivalent of not wanting to include that Lance Armstrong is a cyclist in his introduction. Of course there are controversies and there is a discussion to be add on how to phrase things and what weight to give different aspects, being a cyclist isn't the only thing Lance Armstrong has done, but the situation currently is that none of what I mentioned is being allowed into the introduction (refactored as I was using introduction in the American sense to refer to the introductory paragraphs of an article) lead at all in any way shape or form, and the discussions regarding how to improve the article are consistently hijacked by various means. The only shred of an argument is that his life's work as an advocate for gay rights is appropriately covered by mentioning his work on "civil rights", but civil rights is very broad terminology that is also used to refer to gun rights, freedom of speech issues (including campaign finance issues), and freedom of association. I can assure you that Barney Frank is not an advocate for gun rights, unlimited campaign contributions/ advertising, or for eliminating racial preferences in academic admissions. So saying someone is a civil rights advocate is not especially encyclopedic or helpful in explicating a notable fact about the person without including some amplification and clarification. Not everyone agrees on what civil rights entail for example, as the debate over gun laws makes clear. Rewording to equal rights might be better, but being straightforward and accurate is certainly the gold standard. If in using a phrase we don't know whether someone is a pro-gun conservative Republican or a liberal who wants a greater role for government, it's not a very useful description. Furthermore, the other bit of the introduction describes him as being a bipartisan "bridge builder", when in fact he in one of the most partisan figures in U.S. government. So accuracy is a real concern, and yes there are lots of reliable sources that refer to him as liberal (this is not especially controversial, so resolving this dispute over issues that are clear cut is all the more important) and yes I've posted the sources on the talk page. This is why despite taking on an unpopular cause, these article problems that need fixing and the editor or two who don't want to play nice, even those who think I am some kind of raving right-wing lunatic have stepped in to agree that the other two editors acting inappropriately. Sometimes there are socks, vandals, or obstructionists that are a problem. I'm a problem solver, and I want a fix. And the problem is not limited to that article, so I think working out a solution is a worthwhile endeavor despite the negative light it will invariably cast on me as I seek to resolve and alleviate the bind. I understand this makes me a nail that sticks up and I will receive a good hammering, but sometimes it's important to step up to problems that are difficult and require work that is at times unpleasant. I'm committed to the encyclopedia and I think having accurate and appropriate content that is consistent with the community's guidelines is important. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:42, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
They're right; your wrong. The opening sentence should be an absolutely basic "who is this person?", not their life story. "Barack Hussein Obama II (pronounced /bəˈrɑːk huːˈseɪn oʊˈbɑːmə/; born August 4, 1961) is the 44th and current President of the United States", "Elizabeth II (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary; born 21 April 1926) is the queen regnant of sixteen independent states known as the Commonwealth realms", "Stephen Roger "Steve" Bruce (born 31 December 1960) is an English football manager and former player" – the list could go on indefinitely. It's not a case of "obstruction", but in complying with our house style guide. Seriously, enough. – iridescent17:53, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm using introduction to mean lead. Lead makes me think of of lead sentence. I think it's a linguistic difference that we have with you colonials. I guess I will have to adopt the word lead to mean introduction, but I think lead is already confusing enough with the tenses involved and its also meaning a heavy metal. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:05, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Iridescent, thanks for the support and useful feedback on Smithfield's FAC discussion. As you may have seen, the nomination elicited a large number of comments, some of which include sensible suggestions on how to improve the article. Unfortunately at the moment I do not have much time to work on this. I was wondering if, as a passionate contributor on London history, you would be happy to help address the comments/criticisms and improve the weakest parts of the article. I am going to post an identical request to Kbthompson --DarTar (talk) 10:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I'll have a go, but I'll warn you now that it's outside my usual area so I'm unlikely to have many sources I can turn to that you haven't already covered. Depending on how vaguely you draw the boundary of "Smithfield", you might want to strip-mine the relevant sections of A1 road (London), which inter alia includes a reliable source for the (tenuous) Shakespeare connection. (134 Aldersgate Street – the alleged site of Shakespeare's house – is now occupied by Barbican tube station.) – iridescent11:43, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I meant what I said above to CoM – I've genuinely never heard of him and have no inclination to dig through what looks like a long boring dispute. How he handles a dispute is far more important to me than who's right. – iridescent13:10, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I've had first hand experience with this editor, on numerous music BLP's, including Michael Jackson. This was before he moved to all things political. — R13:13, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah, he was the "running a business doesn't make you a businessman" editwarrior, wasn't he? I remember now. – iridescent13:21, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes. Despite overwhelming consensus that businessman was accurate, he first went to the FA directors talk page, asking him to delist/reassess the article. Sandy told him no, so he started a request for comment regarding the characterization. Basically he was applying extreme pressure to get me to change the wording, because consensus and fact were not in his favor. This behavior occurred on other music articles. His behavior here was terrible too. — R13:37, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I still don't think businessman is an appropriate description, particularly in the first sentence (what I would refer to as the lead). Businessman doesn't seem to be well sourced and isn't, in my opinion, covered in the article. I think investor is probably more accurate and seems to be what's indicated if his music catalog investments are worth noting up front in the article. Several good changes that were unrelated to the businessman issue were made to the article, so I'm happy about that. There were certainly some ownership issues involved, and I don't apologize for requesting an RfC, which I thought was a good faith why to get wider input. As far as FA, if an article has numerous problems it seems to me it shouldn't have that appelation, particularly if its FA status is going to be used as a cudgel to fight anyone seeking improvements. I probably could have been more delicate in my approach, but met with hostility from the start, so I failed to be as pleasant and endearing as I probably should have been. Other articles were also mentioned as examples in the discussions, and several of them were corrected in the process. So all in all the encyclopedia benefitted. I did learn an iomportant lesson, and where there is stiff resistance I usually move on now. It's best to focus on the areas of the encyclopedia where folks are interested in collaborating and don't treat newcomers with aggresion and hostility. Cheers.ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Thanks
Thanks again for your consideration and responses. Much appreciated. I enjoyed investigating the articles you mentioned and I found them quite interesting. I refrained from making any more changes... :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:19, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
GlassCobra 13:06, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
