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Composers Unassessed

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Composers, a group of editors writing and developing biographical articles about composers of all eras and styles. The project discussion page is the place to talk about technical and editorial issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!ComposersWikipedia:WikiProject ComposersTemplate:WikiProject ComposersComposers ??? This article has not yet received a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

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Rewrite

I've done version 1.0 of a rewrite: some NPOVing, cutting the rather ejaculatory account of the cello concerto, and expanding and (hopefully) clarifying the Testimony/revisionism section. I have a few hundred pages of stuff to work through on that, so more to come. I'll keep it concise.  :) Markalexander100 05:08, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

• If the Testimony debate has become such a large part of the article, why not spin it off to its own article? Crculver 14:33, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It certainly wouldn't be a bad idea to have an article specifically on Testimony (at Testimony (book) with a note pointing there form Testimony), though there needs to be some mention of it here as well, of course. --Camembert

• Since the debate regarding "the extent to which Shostakovich expressed his opposition to the state in his other music" is a major part of today's Shostakovich perception, there would need to be more than a short mention here. gestumblindi

• • I disagree. The extent to which Shostakovich stood against the Soviets in a major part of the perception of 25 years ago. Nowadays Shostakovich is seen more and more as just another socialist-realist composer who genuinely supported the Communist state. Thus I don't think there is anything lacking in this article. Crculver 15:42, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I definately disagree that Shostakovich is seen today as "just another socialist-realist composer".207.157.121.50 01:12, 12 October 2005 (UTC)mightyafrowhitey

• • • Well, there's certainly a continuing debate about it. I plan to hive off the points specific to Testimony into a separate article, as suggested, and include more in the article about the politics/music relationship. Bear with me. :) Markalexander100 02:17, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Testimony_(book) has been done; comments there would be welcome. Markalexander100 02:05, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Version 1.1. There are still some gaps, but I'm working on them. I've treated the life and works together, since they're so intertwined. It might be a bit long, but he did live in interesting times. ;) Some of the works material can be hived off into separate pages- I've started working through the symphonies. I've tried to source controversial (read political) material in undisputed sources (generally letters), rather than the reminiscences of friends or official pronouncements, both of which some people have doubts on. If and when they are used, we need to take care to flag the source, contextualise and generally NPOV.

For the rest of the article, I envisage sections on Shostakovich the man (interests, personality) and on interpreting the music (incorporating the current Politics section), and a more complete list of works in place of the Symphonies section. The descriptions of the symphonies can then go in daughter articles.

• I got the list of works up, don't know if you want to keep the symphony section up. MasonM 05:19, 11 April 2004 (UTC)

I cut the reference to Tea for Two- the event was some time in the 20s, so it's not evidence of having been a child prodigy. Markalexander100 02:31, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

9th symphony

The article should mention his 9th symphony, which, published in 1945, was meant to be a bombastic triumph symphony for the red army by the authorities, but in fact was rather mocking. It added very much their disliking Shostakovich. Malbi 13:25, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Symphony No. 9 (Shostakovich) does mention that; it's not in the main article because it wasn't one of the works that marked a turning point in his life (since he was already in disfavour because of number 8). Markalexander100 03:09, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Be sure to listen....

I love Shostakovich. Be sure to find and listen to the 1st movement of his "4th Ballet Suite." It's one of the most incredible things I've ever heard.

Galina Ustvolskaya

Shostakovich had a secret love affair with Galina Ustvolskaya

"Shostakovich proposed to her 'during the Fifties', ... she refused him"

http://www.siue.edu/~aho/musov/ust/ust.html

also

"Mstislav Rostropovich knew both of them around 1948 and records of Ustvolskaya that "she certainly regarded Shostakovich very highly, and indeed there was a very 'tender' relationship between them." Rostropovich further notes that Ustvolskaya was one of the close friends who gave Shostakovich emotional support during the aftermath of the Zhdanov Decree"

see also http://www.ce-review.org/99/2/music2_horton.html

Do you think this is worth mentioning?

Done. Markalexander100 03:48, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Listening advice from a player

I have played some works by Shostakovich, and have a few to recommend.

As it stands, though I am a cellist, I have not played his solo cello works (concerti or sonata) but I have playd several others.

His String Quartets are some of the finest of the genre; I like his 9th in particular, and the third and eighth are worth listening to as well.

I have played his Symphony No. 1 but did not particularly enjoy it, I recommend the 3rd and 7th.

But of course, the concerti are the most memorable. I have loved his Piano Concerto No. 2 since I saw Fantasia 2000, without a doubt, if nothing else, listen to that piece. Also his first cello and violin concertos are very catchy and also very hard, listening to either one will give you a great idea of how Shostakovich wrote in general.

Polio?

The discussion in this article about whether Shostakovich had polio is sort of inconsistent. "Poliomyelitis" and "myelitis" are not necessarily the same disease. Therefore, if he was indeed diagnosed with poliomyelitis, it would be inaccurate to later say his "myelitis continued to worsen," and there wouldn't have been a controversy about whether he had polio. (There is no "rare" form of polio... there are only three strains, and all were more or less equally common.) My guess is that he was probably initally diagnosed as having some form of myelitis, but only later would it have been suspected to be polio. I think this is something that needs further research (by someone other than myself; I know a lot more about polio than I do about Shostakovich!). -- Elizabeyth 20:30, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll look into it. Mark 09:16, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

New link formatting questions

The link formatting results in lines such as--

van Rijen, Onno. "Opus by Shostakovich." '. . Accessed on ], ].

I'm not at all sure this was intended? (And of course I have accessed the page since and refreshed to see if it registered any change.) Schissel : bowl listen 18:44, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Is this really a featured article?

I'm surprised that it's so weak on his music. There's no serious attempt to define his style in relation to other 20th-century composers, or to trace its evolution through his career. I'm not expecting a hugely technical exposé, but there needs to be some technical information.

The article could be longer.

Tony 10:20, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

It's on my list for a clean-up. Give me a little while... Mark 01:49, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

This article seems to portray Shostakovich, one of the greatest composers of 20th century music, in an unnecesarrily negative context. While it is true that his music contains many "lowbrow" moments, It seems quite obvious to me that these musical moments are intended to be ironic. I would also not describe his music as "Romantic". I don't see the point in the numerous references to Mahler. I also don't remember seing Prokofiev mentioned once in the article. It would seem to me that Shostakovich's music was more influenced, or at least sounded more like that of Prokofiev than it does Mahler's.207.157.121.50 01:08, 12 October 2005 (UTC)mightyafrowhitey

Source? Mark 05:36, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

In the introductory paragraph, it is stated that Shostakovich composed "six concertos". Wouldn't the plural of concerto properly be called "concerti"?207.157.121.50 01:17, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

In Italian, but this article is in English. Mark 05:38, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I still wonder why this is a featured article. Two significant problems are that his style is treated very poorly (for this, see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Composers#Guidelines_for_musical_style), and the effect of the paragraphing is jerky and stop-start in many places. Tony 10:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I've done some work reorganising. I'll be in the library next month fixing the style section. It would be nice to know exactly what you think is missing, other than a mention of his influence on later composers (not much). I'm puzzled by the concept of a technical description of a composer's style as opposed to analysis of a particular work. Do you have any examples of what you have in mind? Mark 05:52, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I would like to offer a friendly echo of some of the thoughts voiced above. A number of important issues are missing in this article. Since some of the claims about his music come from Testimony, they may be troublesome, (e.g. the supposed Portrait of Stalin in the 10th symphony) but I think they could still find a way into the article, particularly since the latest scholarship is moving toward the view of a more dissident Shostakovich. Also, the portrayal of his musical style (Mahler-dependent, etc...) seems quite negative and heavily influenced by an increasingly outmoded postwar critical view. Eusebeus 17:13, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

It's perhaps worth emphasising here that this article is not a home for everything we have to say about Shostakovich. Since we have articles on most of his major works, including all the symphonies, that's where we put the musical material and anything specific to those works (such as Stalin's portrait). I'm quite pleased that you think the portrayal of his style is negative, because I tend to worry that it's overly glowing (that maybe depends on whether one thinks being influenced by Mahler is negative. If anyone can find a source claiming that he wasn't influenced by Mahler then we can include it; FWIW Grove says (I paraphrase) Mahler was the most important influence on S's symphonic career.) I'm spending my days in the library at the moment, so if there's something in particular you want researched, just shout.Mark 19:29, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

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